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Subject: the weaver and the factory maid From: GUEST,josephine stewart Date: 02 Aug 00 - 03:01 PM hey mudcats. i haven't used this forum much, but i have a question some one here may be able to help me with. i'm lookin for the lyrics to the song " the weaver and the factory maid " as recorded by steeleye span on their album Parcel of Rogues. i'm in a bit of a time crunch. if any of you have them, please post them or email me at crowgirl13@hotmail.com . thanks very much, jo |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: MMario Date: 02 Aug 00 - 03:33 PM try steeleye span url=http://www.mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=7130
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 02 Aug 00 - 03:41 PM See the 17th century version on the Bodley Ballads website as "Will the Weaver, and Charity the Chambermaid". I differ from Roy Palmer in that I think the 17th century ballad was made up from "Will the Weaver" and "The Maids ABC", and not that these are later halves of "Will and Charity". I've given versions of the latter and reference to Palmer's article 'The Weaver in Love' under 'Weaver and Servant Lass' in the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website (in Mudcat's Links). See "Beauties Warning-piece" also in Scarce Songs 1. This also contains a version of half of "Will and Charity", and its 2nd half is a (not 'the') version of Death and the Lady. |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 02 Aug 00 - 04:50 PM Perhaps I should add that the "Will the Weaver" above is not the one in DT as Laws' Q9. The later is on the Bodley Ballads website, but I can't find the one that is half of "Will and Charity" there, nor can I find "The Fair Maid's desire to learn her A B C". Both are in the Madden collection at Cambridge, and have been reprinted in Holloway and Black's 'Later English Broadside Ballads', I. |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: Hollowfox Date: 02 Aug 00 - 05:58 PM Its in the lyrics section of Mudcat. Go to "lyrics" and type in "weaver" and you're sure to get it. Sorry, I haven't learned to do blue clicky things yet. |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: John Moulden Date: 02 Aug 00 - 06:51 PM For me, the interest of this song is partly in the reference to the county of Down;which gives it a north Irish link. Bruce, I can't find the song of Will the weaver and Charity the chambermaid in either the Bodleian or in vol 1 of Holloway and Black; can you clarify the sources of the various songs which you believe are linked? I have Roy's article. |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 02 Aug 00 - 07:11 PM John, on the Bodley Ballads website use keyword 'charity' for title/first line/tune search, and it is on the first output page. To go directly to it use Shelfmark search on '4o Rawl. 566(21)'. The "Will the Weaver" on my website, from a Scottish MS of c 1745, mentions both County Down and County Armagh, and seems to be slightly more 'Irish' than text in Palmer's article (Folk Music Journal, III, #3, pp. 261-74, 1977) |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: John Moulden Date: 03 Aug 00 - 06:04 AM Thank you, Bruce. |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: John Moulden Date: 03 Aug 00 - 09:36 AM Having now looked at the Bodleian ballad, I too am of the opinion that there are two songs on the sheet. Even the typography indicates this. There is a Large initial letter at "This damosel she was wondrous fair." At your scarce songs site you suggest, Bruce, that in the lines of the song you give there: "her lilly white legs that lay so low were like two white hills covered with snow" "legs" should be breasts. This is inconsistent with the Bodleian version "Two pillars of white ivory" especially since there is a fountain between the pillars - as, in the other version, there is between the two hills. |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: John J Date: 03 Aug 00 - 11:41 AM I remember bits of a song sung by Mike Harding on 'A Lancashire Lad' LP from around 1972. The song, I think, came from the collection of Paul Grainey who (I think, cos I saw him there on numerous occassions in the mid 70s)lived around Middleton in North Manchester. A gentle and quiet man with a wealth of knowledge. Could this be the one? Sorry, I can only remeber a bit of it, but if this is what you're looking for I'll have a dig for you. I'm a hand weaver to me trade, I fell in love with a factory maid, A factory maid...... Cheers, John |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: GUEST Date: 03 Aug 00 - 02:52 PM John, there is obviously more wrong in the verse of the song on my website than my simple minded correction of 'legs' to 'breasts' indicates. There are obvious corruptions in many songs I've transcribed from the microfilm copy of the manuscript. I did find two errors in my typed up copy of the song (now corrected). Perhaps a direct transcript from the manuscript could give a slightly better text. The manuscript obviously came apart at one time and was rebound with much loss of margins (one leaf being misplaced in the process). One has to guess at many places at the beginning of lines on the front of leaves and the endings on the backs of them. There are several other Irish songs in the manuscript and some can be found by searching for the manuscript number, '6299' in the Scarce Songs 1 file on my website. Michael Robinson asked for a list of the Irish songs in the manuscript, and I sent it to him, and it's given somewhere on his standingstones website.
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 03 Aug 00 - 03:10 PM John J: There's no need to bother; both the URL and hotlink given by MMario and the search instructions given by Hollowfox will take Josephine to the file on the Database that contains the lyrics that she wants, transcribed from Steeleye Span's recording. I should just mention that their first verse was grafted on from a completely different song and the tune manipulated rather, so it's a bit different from the traditional version. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: John Moulden Date: 03 Aug 00 - 03:36 PM Yes, that first verse is from the redoubtable Robert Cinnamond's "When I was a tailor" |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 03 Aug 00 - 03:59 PM Thanks, John; I've been sitting here trying to remember where it came from! Incidentally, it turns out that there are actually two transcriptions of the Steeleye Span adaptation on the DT; the one titled The Weaver and the Factory Girl is full of mistakes and is best ignored. The one linked to above, however, seems to be accurate. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: MMario Date: 16 Apr 03 - 02:49 PM But there is still no tune... |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: GUEST,MCP Date: 16 Apr 03 - 03:47 PM I can't do it just now, but if it's still outstanding after Easter I'll put it up. Mick |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: curmudgeon Date: 16 Apr 03 - 03:53 PM A.L. Lloyd does a wonderful version on "The Iron Muse." |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: MMario Date: 16 Apr 03 - 03:56 PM Thanks Mick - maybe someone will beat you to it...*grin* |
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Subject: RE: the weaver and the factory maid From: GUEST,MCP Date: 16 Apr 03 - 04:14 PM I shall live in hopes between drinks at Miskin. Mick |
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Subject: origins: the weaver and the factory maid From: Joe Offer Date: 16 Apr 03 - 04:37 PM Gee, there doesn't seem to be much sourch information on this. I can't say I'd trust Steeleye Span as a source. There is an A.L. Lloyd recording, but the song isn't mentioned in Lloyd's Folk Song in England. I can't figure out where Bruce found the Roy Palmer reference he speaks of above. Here's the entry from the Traditional Ballad Index. -Joe Offer- Weaver and the Factory Maid, TheDESCRIPTION: The singer, a hand-weaver, loves a woman who works in a factory. He visits her in her bedroom despite his family's scorn. All the girls have gone to weave with steam; "If you would see them you must rise at dawn/And trudge to the mill in the early morn"AUTHOR: unknown EARLIEST DATE: 1955 (IRRCinnamond01) KEYWORDS: love sex factory weaving family worker technology nightvisit FOUND IN: Britain(England(North)) REFERENCES (1 citation): DT, WVFACTGL WEAVFACT (both transcribed from the recording by Steeleye Span; the former is the better transcription) Roud #17771 RECORDINGS: Robert Cinnamond, "The Weaver and the Factory Maid" (on IRRCinnamond01) (fragment; only the first verse) A. L. Lloyd, "The Weaver and the Factory Maid" (on Lloyd3, IronMuse1) File: DTwvfact Go to the Ballad Search form Go to the Ballad Index Instructions The Ballad Index Copyright 2023 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: GUEST,MCP Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:18 PM I was about to say I'd put up Bert Lloyd's version from The Iron Muse too when I realised I have two transcriptions of the song to hand, one in Karl Dallas' 100 Songs Of Toil (in 6/8) whose source is not clear and one in Roy Palmer's A Touch On The Times (in 5/4)from Bert Lloyd on The Iron Muse. Karl Dallas' version has an extra verse after v1 of the Lloyd version and an extra verse at the end compared to Lloyd also. I'll put these up later too (if they haven't been posted already; I haven't checked yet). Roy Palmer's notes end: "The tune and most of the text (the rest being from an early ms. source) were collected in Widnes by A.L.Lloyd, as recently as 1951". Mick |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Mary Humphreys Date: 16 Apr 03 - 07:52 PM The tune that Bert Lloyd sings is extremely similar to the Welsh song collected in several parts of Wales during the last century - 'Lisa Lan' ( there should be a circumflex accent over the 'a' in 'Lan' but I am not sure how to do it.)Widnes is not so far from Wales that a good tune couldn't travel that distance. |
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Subject: Tune Add: HAND WEAVER AND THE FACTORY MAID From: GUEST,MCP Date: 28 Apr 03 - 12:35 PM Here are the two transcriptions I have to hand (Bert Lloyd's from Roy Palmer's transcription, and the one from Karl Dallas). I'll do the Steeleye Span one later. Mick X: 1 T:HAND WEAVER AND THE FACTORY MAID (1) M:5/4 L:1/4 S:Roy Palmer - A Touch On The Times - from AL Lloyd's singing K:DMix D|F A A G (E/C/)|D D D2 w: I am a hand wea-ver_ to my trade D|F A d c e|d B A2 w: I fell in love with a fac-tory maid D|F A d c e|d B A2 w: And if I could but her fa-vour win D|F F G E C|D D D2|| w: I'd stand be-side her and weave by steam X: 2 T:Hand Weaver And The Factory Maid (2) M:6/8 L:1/8 S:Karl Dallas - 100 Songs Of Toil K:C (C/E/)|G G G (F/E/) (D _B,)|C C C-C2 z| w: I_ am a hand wea_ver_ to my trade_ C E G c B d|c A G-G2 z| w: I fell in love with a fac-tory maid_ C E G (c/G/) B d|c A G-G2 z| w: And if I could_ but her fa-vour win_ C E E F D _B,|C C C-C2|| w: I'd stand be-side her and weave by steam_ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: MMario Date: 28 Apr 03 - 12:38 PM Mick - I'm speechless! Thank you! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: GUEST,Donal Date: 14 Sep 10 - 11:19 AM Would anyone like to try to fill in the blanks in this. It's from Sylvia Barnes & Scotch Measure and obviously some of the lines are the same as Steeleye Span or Lloyd's versions but I would like to get the missing words. You Tube Handweaver and the Factory Maid I'm a hand weaver to my trade. Long time I courted a factory maid, And if I could her kind favour win, I'd stand beside her and I'd weave by steam. It's many's a year now, I plied my skill By my ain fireside ?? the mill I wove fine linen and ?? While the kitchen kettle sings my lassie's name. My father's often unto me said, How could you fancy a factory maid? When you could have women of grace and style Who'd like to win the master weaver's smile. But the weaver's fortune of my father's days Has faded now to a meagre wage And the darkened factories ?? Have brought the prices and the weavers down. Where are the lassies now I'll tell you plain The girls have all gone to weave by steam, And if you would find them you must rise at dawn And trudge to the mill in the early morn. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Nov 10 - 07:14 PM Jon Boden uses "The Weaver and the Factory Maid" as the song for 26 November in his A Folk Song a Day project. The notes on Jon's Website refer to our Bertsongs thread, which also has information about "Weaver." -Joe- Roud Index Search |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: theleveller Date: 26 Nov 10 - 04:24 AM An excellent version on the new(ish) Megson CD |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: rosma Date: 19 Aug 13 - 11:28 AM Hi Donal, I just found this thread and saw that after three years your question about the Scotch Measure version hasn't been answered. Sylvia Barnes sings in her Scots accent but I've noted you've translated to standard English, so I've done the same in this response. My changes and additions are marked with "***". Handweaver and the Factory Maid I'm a hand weaver to my trade. Long time I courted a factory maid, And if I could her kind favour win, I'd stand beside her and I'd weave by steam. It's many's ***the*** year now, ***I've*** plied my skill By my ***own*** fireside **long before** the mill I wove fine linen and **silk so fair** While the ***pitching shuttle*** sings my lassie's name. My father's often unto me said, How could you fancy a factory maid? When you could have women of grace and style Who'd like to win the master weaver's smile. But the weaver's fortune of my father's ***age*** Has faded now to a meagre wage And the darkened factories ***of Anderstown*** Have brought the prices and the weavers down. Where are the lassies now I'll tell you plain The girls have all gone to weave by steam, And if you would find them you must rise at dawn And trudge to the mill in the early morn. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket Date: 22 Aug 13 - 07:58 PM "I wove fine linen and silk so fair" I'd like to know the provenance of this. Weavers were specialised as to what they wove - different threads (both for warp and weft) had very different characteristics, so much that they were dealt with in different areas - cotton in Lancashire, wool in Yorkshire, silk in Derby and Macclesfield (and a few other places), linen in many odd places, big in Ireland and parts of Scotland but very small scale elsewhere. Anderstown may or may not be Andersonstown in Belfast (NI), but I'm not sure if silk was ever woven there after the 98. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Reinhard Date: 22 Aug 13 - 09:15 PM It's the Anderston district in Glasgow as Scotch Measure write in their liner notes: "A simple love song set in the Anderston area of Glasgow against the backdrop of the decline of the traditional craft of the hand weaver in the face of the Industrial Revolution." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: GUEST,Donal Date: 22 Aug 13 - 09:39 PM Thanks Rosma, I'd totally forgotten about this. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Aug 13 - 03:58 AM Bert Lloyd used to sing this, a bawdy song entitled 'The Weaver' which uses the technique of the trade as sexual symbols Jim Carroll THE WEAVER As I went out very late one night The stars were shining and all things bright I spied a maid by the light of the moon And under her apron she was working at her loom (chorus) To me right whack fol the diddle di do day To me right whack fol the diddle di do day I spied a maid by the light of the moon And under her apron she was working at her loom She says,"Young man, what trade do you bear," Says I, "I'm a weaaver I do declare." "If you're a weaver then,"said she "Would you like to come and work upon me loom for me." "Oh no dear maid that may not he Last night I wove for two or three Two or three young girls so bright And They' d like to have kept me at it all the night" "There was Nancy Fairclough of this town I wove for her the Rose And Crown And for Elvira fairer still I wove her the pattern called the diamond twill" "Oh a very fine pattern is the diamond twill And the Rose And Crown is finer still But here's five pound I will lay down If you'll weave me something "better than the Rose And Crown" I set this young girl in the grass And I braced her loom-both tight and fast My shuttle in her web I flung And, oh good god how her loom was sprung The heels of her loom they being well greased This girl she begun for to hug and squeeze And there and then by the light of the moon I wove her the patterns called The Bride And Groom "Well, that's fine weaving then," said she "Pray won't you weave another piece for me" So as me shuttle went to and fro I wove another pattern called the Touch and Go Me shuttle to her loom I bent And I wove her along to a lively end And as a finish to the joke I topped off the pattern with a double stroke |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Jim Carroll Date: 23 Aug 13 - 04:04 AM Sorry - wrong thread (excuse the pun!) Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Rumncoke Date: 17 Jun 17 - 09:29 PM I have always had a liking for weaving songs, and I have my own small looms. In recent years I looked up my father's family - the Gillotts and found that they were weavers. Examining the census records I found that far back they were hand weavers of linen, in Barnsley, now in South Yorkshire, but they were thrown out of work as they were involved in the demands for a living wage and rather than pay up the trade was shut down. There was a move to cotton weaving, done by women rather than the men, who could not get employment - presumably they were blacklisted, and one census shows the father of the family as an unemployed hand linen weaver, with an older daughter as a hand cotton weaver and a younger one as a factory cotton weaver. It was not all wool weaving in Yorkshire. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Big Al Whittle Date: 18 Jun 17 - 06:43 AM wasn't there a verse about the lady's bosoms - or am i confusing it with a song about Dolly Parton? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: GUEST,Rigby Date: 18 Jun 17 - 02:04 PM Yes, the version I know has a verse which runs: Oh pleasant thoughts ran through my mind As I turned down her sheets so fine To see her white breasts all standing so Like two small mountains covered in snow |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Brian Peters Date: 18 Jun 17 - 02:44 PM ...the breasts which belonged originally to a 'servant maid' in the broadside 'The Weaver and his Sweetheart' - one of the sources Bert Lloyd used to cobble together 'The Weaver and the Factory Maid'. More information on the 'Bertsongs' thread. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: The Weaver and the Factory Maid From: Jack Campin Date: 19 Jun 17 - 04:15 AM Anderstown may or may not be Andersonstown in Belfast (NI), but I'm not sure if silk was ever woven there after the 98. I think I've posted about this in another thread, but I came across the song in a Scottish manuscript of the 1760s, which has it unambiguously set in Belfast. |
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