Help: tie/slur/beamed

Subject: tie/slur/beamed
From: MMario
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 12:26 PM

Okay - is there REALLY any difference between beamed notes and not beamed notes, or are they just easier to read?

If I understand it correctly tie and slur are basically the same thing, and are NOT related to whether or not the notes are beamed.

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 12:33 PM

A tie connects two like notes and a slur connects two different notes.

Beamed? Are you referring to the way eighth note or sixtenth are strung together with a bar on top? Just an easier way to read and write the notes in sequence.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 12:59 PM

In instrumental music, if there is a prgression of like metered notes, for instance, 2 eighth notes, or 4 sixteenth notes, they will almost ALWAYS be joined with a beam. This is NOT so sheet music with a vocal line. Beamed notes in a vocal line means that they are to be sung smoothly (legato), while unbeamed notes are more separated...not as sharply accented as staccato would be, but just separate enough to form a contrast between it and the legato. For instance, if you've ever heard Massanet's "Meditation" with the melody line sung by the human voice (usually a soprano), that would be beamed, while something like hocket would be unbeamed.

--Matt

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:02 PM

Yeah, you're right Meebs.........I wasn't giving any thought to vocal music.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:03 PM

.......and its also true on wind instruments regarding tongueing the notes.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: MMario
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:03 PM

Okay. So there really IS a difference.

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:08 PM

Also, a tie and a slur are NOT the same thing. A tie is what connects two notes of the same pitch together, thus sustaining it. A slur is a smooth transition between two notes. A slur is also a legato. In guitar we have 2 types of slur, the hammer-on, and the pull-off. In wind & brass instruments, you get a neat sound when you slur, because it becomes like a slide, or a small glissando from the one note to the other.

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:10 PM

'Struth Spaw! I never thought about that!

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: jeffp
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:15 PM

With the trombone, because of the slide, there is a differentiation between the slur, which is lightly tongued, and the glissando, which is not tongued at all. The slur tonguing is a "da" sound as opposed to regular tonguing, which is a "ta." The glissando is a smooth transition covering all the frequencies between the two notes. We also used to call it a "smear."

jeffpwhoisaformertromboneplayer

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:20 PM

Ah, interesting! It would be neat to hear the slide/slur technique on lots of different instruments!

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:28 PM

Ok I am confused
Why tie two notes together instead of using a 'longer' note?
Unless a longer note would not fit in at the end of the bar and the tie joins two notes either side of the bar line?
i think I have confused myself now

Roger

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: jeffp
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 01:30 PM

You answered your own question, Roger. The tie is usually used to extend a note across bar lines. There may be other reasons in piano scores, but I'm not sure.

jeffp

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Homeless
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 02:23 PM

Roger - you'd use a tie both for crossing measure and when there's no other simple way to show the time value, e.g. 2 1/2 beats - a half note tied to an eighth.

I've also seen it used when a note starts off the beat, but the duration is held for more than the length of one beat. For example, starting a measure with an eighth/eighth/quarter combination the last two would be tied together rather than having a dotted quarter that started on the up of the first beat. (Writing it out will help - this is one of those instances where a picture is worth...)

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: MMario
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 02:45 PM

*my head hurts*

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: jeffp
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:38 PM

Aren'tcha sorry you asked? *BG*

jeffp

Subject: Music Education: tie/slur/beamed
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:47 PM

OK, and if you had 8 eighth notes in a measure of 4/4 time, would you beam all 8 together, or does it break into four pairs?
Should I ask about how to indicate a full house and five aces now, or should I let Catspaw do it?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Mbo
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 03:51 PM

I'd break them up into 2 sets of 4, Joe. In piano scores, though the beaming rules all depend on the composer choice of phrasing--they may be beamed in 2's, 4's or all 8 together.

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 04:01 PM

Precisely Meebs.....Scoring is a different animal altogether and much is done for the sake of expedience.

And Joe, I wouldn't attempt such a thing and I can only say to you.......

Go n-aora Monica Lewinsky do bhall fearga.

.......for even thinking I would!!!! How crude!**BG**

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Burke
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 04:04 PM

I don't think I've ever seen more than 4 8th notes beamed together. I think 2 vs. 4 beamed varies. In 6/8 3 notes are together. It sure makes counting & subdividing the beats easier.

With vocal music the slurs indicate that all notes are one syllable. 8th notes beamed meant the same as a slur and separatly noted 8th's would mean different syllables. I've seen music recently where 2 notes are beamed even with separate syllables. It's really confusing. I wonder if it's instrumentalists writing the music or music notation software programs that won't allow the separate notes.

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 09:03 PM

I am very interested in that subject and I would like to understand the above better; maybe I can even add a remark. But there's a problem with the language: Is it correct that ties and slurs are curved lines above or below the note 'heads' (?) and beamed means that the 'necks' (?) of the notes are connected by a straight bar? If so, what's the difference between a tie and a slur - I mean graphically? You know in my original language there's only one expression.

(?): Literal translations from german. Should be self-explaining, though.

Joerg

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 09:14 PM

The graphic difference is in the notes. A TIE connects two notes of the same tone and a SLUR connects two notes of different tones.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 10:04 PM

Thank you, Spaw. Seems that I was right with my guess.

Back in my school days I once dared to ask my music teacher a 'stupid' question: What's the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 measure - obviously the latter fraction can be cancelled (I just hope that expression is correct now because I recently lost some faith in my dictionary).

He - being one of the better ones - said nothing, went to the blackboard and wrote down two measures, each one consisting of six eighth notes of the same pitch. In the first measure the first, second and third pair were each beamed (3/4), in the second measure the first and the second triple (6/8). Wish I could show it to you graphically.

Then he looked at me, saw me nodding, nodded himself and said "The counting is the same, the rhythm is different."

Clear? Clear.

Joerg

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 04:11 AM

Is there a music theory thread anywhere?
RiS

Subject: RE: Help: tie/slur/beamed
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 01:49 PM

With reference to beaming more than 4 8th notes, etc--Take a look at some of the classical violin solos. The Paganinni Caprices come to mind first; they have up to 30 or so notes of all lengths beamed together. Some are glissandos, but some are spitzacatto too. PagCaprices are a BIG BAD B WORD to play. The music looks like drunken spider webs.