Origin: South Wind / Southwind

Subject: South Wind
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 12:40 PM

Does anyone know FOR SURE the origin of the tune (not song) South Wind. It sounds very much like a Carolan piece. Thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Gypsy
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 11:49 PM

Lets just start the thread creep early, huh? Southwind has lyrics? Really? Wouldja share them?

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 12:14 AM

Want 'em in Gaelic or Engilish?

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 12:18 AM

English is Click here in the DT. I have the Gaelic (as I am sure Aine does), but my keyboard does not have accent marks and ampersand codes are a booger for the Gaelic.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 09:05 AM

This isn't much help, but I haven't heard anyone say Southwind may have been composed by Carolan before. It's not in the book I have. I think many things may sound like his works because he grew up with the music and was inspired by it - it certainly does have a Carolan-ish feel to it.

Could this be one of the rare cases where the words and tune were composed at the same time? There are English lyrics and some information at the Slow Airs page. (It also discusses the song.)

Thanks for asking about this tune - it's one of the loveliest ones I know, and I'd love to learn more about it.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 11:09 AM

What is this South Wind then?
No.362 in the Charles Ives list
http://www.charlesives.org/contents.htm
RiS

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 11:27 AM

I thought it was Martinmas Wind and had those words?

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 09:14 PM

I am speaking about the South Wind commonly played at Irish sessions. Again, it does have a strong feeling of Carolan's work. Now, does that same melody have words? I don't know but I have never heard it sung in Irish or English.

Thanks for any help.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Shamrock
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:02 PM

South Wind is played commomly here in Ireland at sessions. Mind you it is usually part of a Carolan set and I always presumed it to be his. Surely, singing words in any language to it must take fro thid beautiful melody ?

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:26 PM

If there's any evidence that the tune is by Carolan, I haven't seen it. If you go to the link I posted in my first message, then look for "the South Wind" and click on it, you'll see the English lyrics.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:30 PM

Hi Jeri & all, it's also in the DT. Barry

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 10:37 PM

Barry...duh! Thanks.
Click here

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 11:14 PM

For what it's worth, Séan Mac Réamoinn had this to say in his notes for the Chieftains' third record:

"An Ghaoth Aneas is attributed by Bunting to a Clare musician, Donall Meidhreach Mac Conmara..."

Malcolm

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 10:26 AM

I hope Sandy stops in on this one. Fisher recorded South Wind on "Man with the Rhyme" on his label. Maybe he knows more of the story.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Judy Predmore
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 01:42 AM

So that's why the South Wind tune sounds so familiar to me when I hear it... (I heard it & was wondering about it just yesterday...) I have Archie Fisher's "Man with a Rhyme"...

From those wonderful Folk Legacy booklets, Archie Fisher says this:

"Composed by Donal O'Sullivan from the translation of the song by "a native of Irrul, County Mayo, named Domhnall Meirgeach Mc Con Mara (Freckled Donal Macnamara)" and published in O'Sullivan's "Songs of the Irish"(Crown, New York, 1960)."

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:51 AM

Thanks, Judy.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Helen
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:03 PM

Thanks, Judy, I was trying to remember Donal O'Sullivan's name.

Malcolm's reference to Bunting's collection means that the song was composed in the 17th Century or earlier. I have a reproduction copy of the Bunting books so if anyone want s more info, just let me know. It's harp tunes collected by Bunting from harp performances of the time.

Helen

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 10:02 PM

It is also worth noting that Ewan McVicar composed a lovely song called "All the Tunes in the World" sung to this melody. There is no better song with which to end a singaround.

Murray

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 11:13 PM

Murray: Can you post the McVicar text for us, please? I'd love to have it.

Sandy (who proudly recorded and produced that Archie Fisher CD on Folk-Legacy)

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:12 PM

For the lyrics of Ewan McVicar's song go to All the Tunes in the World.- Susanne (keeping her fingers crossed ...)

Subject: Lyr Add: ALL THE TUNES IN THE WORLD
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 05:45 PM

Sandy, Ewan says in his preamble to this song in his book "One Singer, One Song", and I quote, "There are, you'd not lift an eyebrow to learn, differing versions of this song about". However, the version in the link above is so far from his original lyric that it bears correcting. Here goes:

ALL THE TUNES IN THE WORLD

Lay down the borrowed guitar
Lay down the fiddle and bow
You'd like one more drink at the bar
But the manager says you must go

CHORUS:
All the tunes in the world
Are dancing around in your head
But the clock on the gantry says playtime is done
You'll just have to sing them instead

Lay down the jig and the reel
Lay down the planxty and slide
Everyone knows how you feel
But there's no time to take one more ride
(Chorus)
The barmaid has put on her coat
The barman has emptied the slops
The manager's pals are afraid
That the music might bring in the cops
(Chorus)
Everyone here feels the same
Yes you deserve one more tune
But you know the rules of the game
It's time to go howl at the moon
(Chorus)

It's a good song, American audiences might not understand what "gantry" means, I usually change it to "wall" when I do it here .....

Murray

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Turtle
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 12:51 PM

Murray, what *does* "gantry" mean?

I love the Mudcat! I just started playing this tune a couple weeks ago (one of my fiddle buddies brought it to a beginners' session), and now here's all this information, and two sets of lyrics to sing to it . . . I feel rich!

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 01:15 PM

Thanks to both Susanne and Murray. I can see that I'll have to play around with the text a bit, too, in order to make it fit neatly into the "South Wind" tune that I know. Perhaps I can find a recording of it. Suggestions?

Sandy

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 05:34 PM

Sandy, if you phone Debra Cowan, she will be delighted to sing it for you over the phone, I am sure. You have her phone number, I assume, I know she has yours.

Murray

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 07:49 PM

The original (Murray's version) can be heard on The McCalmans' 'Songs of Scotland' (1991) which should be available from Greentrax. The Hamish Imlach/Iain MacKintosh version is on one of their two joint albums, 'Live in Hamburg'(1986), now available on CD but probably fairly hard to get in the States. (I'd be prepared to swap it for Gordon Bok ...) - Susanne

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: roopoo
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 04:20 AM

I had heard it was of Irish origin, but never knew it was a song. I play it at sessions and it's used at ceilidhs as a waltz quite commonly. It's one of those pieces that everyone seems to like. Makes me wish I could sing!

mouldy

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 05:46 AM

Pinetop, Judy, Helen, et al - I'd like to see the lyrics of Donal O'Sullivan's "Man with a Rhyme" (recorded by Archie Fisher}

I know of O'Sullivan as a compiler and translator of songs in Irish, but not as a songwriter.

A friend of mine has fond memories of Archie Fisher teaching him guitar at a secondary school in Fife.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: oggie
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 06:15 PM

Mick Moloney sings it in gaelic on one of his early albums on Transatlantic. Lovely version, unfortunately my tape got lunched by a tape deck some years ago

All the best

Steve

Subject: The Celtic waltz,Southwind
From: GUEST,Moca
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 05:33 AM

A riend needs the chords and lyrics for this one. I have heard it preformed on The Thistle And Shamri=ock,but I know it only as an instremental. Any help would be greately appreciated.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Celtic waltz,Southwind
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 05:53 AM

an earlier thread on South Wind
JC's has several versions of the tune, some with chords

Roger

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Gypsy
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:39 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 06:59 PM

The Mick Moloney LP is one of 6 on a 4-CD pack called "Irish Folk Favourites", in UK on Castle DCD CD 104. I paid £pound;10.99 in Woolworth's in 1993 - one of my best-ever buys.

The other artists are:

• The Dubliners
• Kilfenora Ceili Band
• Sweeney's Men
• The Grehan Sisters - On the Galtymore Mountains
• Finbar & Eddy Furey

WassaiL! V

PS I've often heard Southwind played at ceilidhs in England - for the Mexican Waltz!

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 08:03 PM

Re Sandy's request above I've asked Joe if there is currently a .NWC file available of 'All The Tunes In The World' on Mudcat MIDIs. If not then I'll create one. A great song with one of my perennialy favourite tunes.

Regards, John

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Brían
Date: 28 Oct 01 - 09:26 PM

I have a recording of Mick Moloney singing this song in Irish. I asked him for the words after a concert one night. A friend of mine happened to have the book. I have misplaced the photocopy long ago, though I could always ask my friend to copy it again. It is in Munster Irish, and very old at that. The words are different in Irish. I'll add this to my tracer, though it might take a while to track it down.

It seems the fellow was called Freckled Dónal Ó Sullivan and he was banished from Munster for some doings. He is asking the wind to carry news to the ones he loved.

Brían

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: GUEST,maire
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 09:13 AM

Please, please, please. Somebody, post the Irish lyrics, even without the fadas. I can figure them out for myself. I've been trying to find them for so long.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: MMario
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 09:26 AM

Hi John! Does this mean you are "back"?

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 11:21 AM

A search for Ghaoth Aneas at  Google  returns this as the very first result:  A Ghaoth Aneas

Sadly, the people who run the site credit no source for the Gaelic text or for the English translation (they give both).  Could someone confirm that it's the right one? It would be worth posting here, too, if it is.

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: The Celtic waltz,Southwind
From: Noreen
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 03:01 PM

Thank you Roger, and since you've done that, can I allay the grating of my teeth by saying:

a) It's not Celtic, it's Irish
and
It's not a waltz, though it is in 3/4 time.

Thank you, I feel much better now.

:0)

Noreen

(And I have heard words sung to this tune, though I don't know them- about The West Wind, I think.

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Brían
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 06:02 PM

Thanks, Malcolm, that seems to be the same version I saw. However, I don't recall the name of the book I saw it in. It was pulled off the shelf from our local library and a friend of mine has it. I'll try to contact him and get another copy of it to compare it.

Brían

Subject: RE: South Wind
From: Snuffy
Date: 29 Oct 01 - 08:12 PM

On the Mick Moloney recording and in this thread An Gaoth Andheas there is a "dh" in the final word.

The Gaelic lyrics are in that thread

Subject: RE: An Gaoth Andheas From: GUEST,[e-mail] Date: 03-Feb-00 - 01:33 PM Shop: Green Fields , South Wind , Crown , Winter I found the lyrics in a 1960 edition of Donál O'Sullivan's Songs of the Irish published by Bonanza Books, a division of Crown Publishing, Inc. page 95 with Gaeilge agus Béarla and explanation on page 96.

WassaiL! V

Subject: RE: Origin: South Wind / Southwind
From: nigelgatherer
Date: 07 Jan 14 - 09:57 AM

A little late, but in answer to Turtle's question "What is a gantry" with regard to Ewan McVicar's song "All the Tunes in the World"...

In Scottish pubs there is a wooden construction behind the bar, either free-standing (in an island bar set-up) or against the wall, holding bottles and glasses and, often, a clock. This is called a gantry.

Subject: RE: Origin: South Wind / Southwind
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Feb 17 - 08:40 AM

In case anyone revisits this thread The Session says this abut An Gaoth Andheas

"South Wind was written in the 1700s by "Freckled Donal Macnamara" in homesickness for his homeland in County Mayo, as described in Donal O'Sullivan's wonderful book, "Songs of the Irish."

Subject: RE: Origin: South Wind / Southwind
From: BenTraverse
Date: 17 Apr 23 - 12:27 AM

Hey, y'all!

Sorry to revive a dead thread here, but does anyone know what the earliest (extant) publication of this song is? It's included in Bunting's 1809 collection, but is anyone aware of anything that predates this? Or details on where Bunting got the song?

Subject: RE: Origin: South Wind / Southwind
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 23 Apr 23 - 10:16 PM

IMHO, it bears a resemblance to the 17th century tune "Joan's placket is torn".

https://www.folktunefinder.com/tunes/131023

https://tunearch.org/wiki/Annotation:Joan%27s_Placket