Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel

Subject: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 08:58 PM

I have this song on a Green Linnet compilation, and it is by Kornog. Jamie McMenemy sings it and I don't get the words...Got any clues?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 09:28 PM

In DT as "Where Helen lies", but the song dates from much earlier than Burns time.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 09:40 PM

In the index of Scots tunes in manuscripts on my website you will find its tune (Where Helen lies) noted in the Blaikie and Leyden MSS of the late 17th century and the Waterson MS of the early 18th.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Aug 00 - 10:38 PM

Did I ever tell you how right on you are? You scared me half to death with that knowledge of yours. NO, Really,.. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 01:38 PM

I have to recant a bit. The copy in DT is Burns' revision of the old ballad, where some verses are his and some from the old ballad, which he said was silly, and said his alteration was not much better. He said the best version was one of 6 verses in Pinkerton's 'Ancient [actually Tragic] Ballads', [1781]. I do not have the text of that.

See Chamber's 'The Songs of Scotland Prior to Burns' and Dick's 'The Songs of Robert Burns' for commentary and other copies of the song. G. F. Graham in 'The Songs of Scotland', III, p. 104 gives the traditional version) published by C. K. Sharpe in 'Additional Illustrations to the Scots Musical Museum' (#155) copy (8 verses), as set to the traditional tune later (1849) supplied by Sharpe by personal communication. Other song copies are in Scott's 'Border Minstrelsy' and Ritson's 'Scottish Songs'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 02:41 PM

This is getting even messier. J. W. Ebsworth claimed in 'Roxburghe Ballads', VIII, p. 872, that the earliest copy known to him was a white letter issue in the Roxburghe collection, which he there reprints. (ZN1856 in the broadside ballad index on my website.) This is most likely an 18th century issue. Scott's version in 'Border Minstrelsy' is apparently derived from this. This is 25 verses long, and commences "My sweetest Sweet and fairest Fair". Later copies of this and two other versions are on the Bodley Ballads website. Search on 'Helen', then look at first lines.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 02:50 PM

Your research is fantastic, and I appreciate the referrences very much! I was able to begin singing "Where Helen Lies" and I feel that it is unclear, or more to the point, I feel that it could build to more of an impact. However the melody is more descriptive than one might think, and I found the song on the whole quite nice. Thank you for attentiveness!
Best of blessings upon you!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 03:35 PM

Sorry, I misremembered a first line. The 25 verse Roxburghe Ballads text isn't on the Bodley Ballads website.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 11:10 PM

Bruce?...Is it available at all?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Helen of Kirkconnel
From: GUEST,John Blackwood
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 12:44 PM

Did you get the words? I have a version,commonly sung in folk clubs here in Scotland if you need it.