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Lyr Req: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?

Shanti 05 Aug 00 - 05:22 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Aug 00 - 05:33 PM
Shanti 05 Aug 00 - 05:53 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 05 Aug 00 - 06:20 PM
Shanti 05 Aug 00 - 07:44 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 06 Aug 00 - 02:54 PM
GUEST,bigJ 06 Aug 00 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,Bruce O. 06 Aug 00 - 04:16 PM
Shanti 07 Aug 00 - 07:59 AM
Shanti 07 Aug 00 - 08:13 AM
Jim Dixon 16 Mar 09 - 12:08 AM
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Subject: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: Shanti
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 05:22 PM

No, this is not a rhetorical question, it's a song title. I heard it first in a concert reading of a play by Sean O'Casey, PICTURES IN THE HALLWAY, based on part of his autobiography. The song was sung in the play and I immediately added it to my repertoire. I've been trying since then to find out something about the song. I'm not certain that it is what can be literally termed a folksong. O'Casey might have written the words for it himself. Can anyone on Mudcat give me any more info? Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 05:33 PM

Thomas Moore wrote the words, to an existing air -traditional so far as I know- called "Sly Patrick".

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: Shanti
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 05:53 PM

Thank you Malcolm...I should have guessed. It's a beautiful song, made the more beautiful by knowing where it came from. The lyrics so typify Ireland's past, and I'm sure that's what Moore was thinking when he wrote them...I know that's why they appealed to O'Casey, who though a Protestant, was definitely a rebel.


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 06:20 PM

No exact copy of "Sly Patrick" is know prior to Moore's use of it for the song here, in the 6th issue of 'A Selection of Irish Melodies' (1815), but according to 'Sources of Irish Traditional Music', 1998, it is another variant in a large family of closely related tunes, some of which are: Robi dona Gorach, Todlen Hame, [Johnny] Armstrong's Farewell, Earl Douglas's Lament, Lude's Lament (1st strain), Drunk at Night and Dry in the Morning, My name is Dick Kelly, [Bacah] = Bockagh (Lame yellow Beggar):= Did you not hear of Boccough (Coffey, Begger's Wedding, 1729); = The Lame Yellow Beggar (by O'Caghan in 1650 - according to Bunting, 1840)


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: Shanti
Date: 05 Aug 00 - 07:44 PM

Bruce, you certtainly do your research! Had no idea the tune had such a history. I'm going to have to check on the poem too...to see if there is more to it than I know. The song is fairly short, as trad songs go.


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 02:54 PM

After plotting the stressed note sequence of "Sly Patrick" with those of the tune family that I cited, (in file COMBCOD2. TXT on my website) I've come to the conclusion that the identification of "Sly Patrick" with the tune family is probably wrong. "Sly Patrick" in #5348 in 'Sources of traditional Music' and the cross-reference number is 1241. It is possible that this cross-reference number is a misprint, (and I've found a few such in SITM) but I can't find any earlier tune that's very similar to "Sly Patrick". A similar later one is "The Stooped Old Man", #8405 and #8443 in my index, but no other tune in my index has exactly the same stressed note code as "Sly Patrick", and "The Stooped Old Man" is the only one very close (2 of the 8 stressed notes different).


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: GUEST,bigJ
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 03:50 PM

Hey Bruce, is that 'Sources of Irish Traditional Music' the two-volume collection published by Garland? The expensive set? If so, where did you get it because I've had it on order with my local bookseller since last October without any luck? Any information would be gratefully received.


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 06 Aug 00 - 04:16 PM

bigJ, the answer is yes. I never did see it listed on Garland's website, which I watched for several months prior to publication, but when two copies (of two vols. each) were obtained at the House of Musical Traditions in Tacoma Park, MD, I got an e-mail from their book buyer asking if I wanted one of them. House of Musical Traditions has a website at www.hmtrad.com, and you might try contacting the book buyer (click on books in the left column on their homepage), but he is not the same one that got the copies originally.


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: Shanti
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 07:59 AM

I found one copy of SITM at the website for Fred Hanna's Bookstore in Dublin. They have one copy of the two-volume set, which sells for 210 Irish pounds (punts). Seems to be a rare and costly commodity...one that I can't come close to affording right now. Tried Amazon and they say it's out of print and the publisher no longer has any copies. Also checked Alibris (rare and out of print books) and they don't have a listing for it at all.

Think I'll do a search through one of the sites.


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Subject: RE: Has Sorrow Thy Young Days Shaded?
From: Shanti
Date: 07 Aug 00 - 08:13 AM

Addendum to last posting...found SITM at Barnes and Noble site...they have it in stock, can ship it in 24 hours...but it's $250.00. Add to my wish list, I guess. Thought some of you might want to know.

All the best,


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Subject: Lyr Add: HAS SORROW THY YOUNG DAYS SHADED? (Moore)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Mar 09 - 12:08 AM

Lyrics below, with the author's footnotes, copied from Melodies, Songs, Sacred Songs, and National Airs by Thomas Moore (New York: George Long, 1821)

Musical notation, with arrangement for voice and piano, can be seen in Moore's Irish Melodies with Symphonies and Accompaniments by Sir John Stevenson and Sir Henry Bishop (London: Addison, Hollier and Lucas, 1859)

A simpler arrangement, showing the melody line only, can be seen in The Melodist by G. S. Thornton (New York: George Singleton, 1820)


HAS SORROW THY YOUNG DAYS SHADED.
Air?"Sly Patrick."

Has sorrow thy young days shaded
As clouds o'er the morning fleet?
Too fast have those young days faded,
That even in sorrow were sweet!
Does Time with his cold wings wither
Each feeling that once was dear??
Come, child of misfortune! come hither,
I'll weep with thee, tear for tear.

Has love to that soul so tender
Been like our Lagenian mine,*
Where sparkles of golden splendour
All over the surface shine?
But if in pursuit we go deeper,
Allur'd by the gleam that shone,
Ah! false as the dream of the sleeper,
Like love the bright ore is gone.

Has Hope, like the bird in the story,**
That flitted from tree to tree,
With talisman's glittering glory?
Has Hope been that bird to thee?
On branch after branch alighting,
The gem did she still display,
And when nearest and most inviting,
Then waft the fair gem away?

If thus the sweet hours have fleeted,
When sorrow herself look'd bright;
If thus the fond hope has cheated,
That led thee along so light;
If thus the unkind world wither
Each feeling that once was dear;
Come, child of misfortune! come hither,
I'll weep with thee, tear for tear.


* Our Wicklow gold mines, to which this verse alludes, deserve, I fear, the character here given of them.

** "The bird, having got its prize, settled not far off with the talisman in his mouth. The prince drew near it, hoping it would drop it; but, as he approached, the bird took wing, and settled again," &c.
    Arabian Nights?Story of Kummer al Zummaun and the princess of China.


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