Lyr ADD: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter

Subject: RE:Chamber Lye / John Harroldon's Saltpeter
From: and e
Date: 03 Jun 23 - 11:37 AM

It is quite generally known that the Confederate
government was troubled to considerable extent in preserving(?)
salt-peter and nitre from which to make gun powder, so it became
necessary that the following advertisement be published in the
Selma Alabama Times in Oct 1862.

The ladies of Selma are requested to preserve the chamber-lye
collected on their premises for the purpose of making nitre.
A barrel will be sent around daily to collect it for the nitre
and mining Bereau

John Hanesen

A Confederate officer. Who was a great-wag and somewhat of
a poet commented on this as follows

John Harreson John Harrolson you are
funny creature You have added to the dreadful war
a new and funny feature, You've have us think that
every man was born to be a fighter, and the laddies
bless the little dears should save their piss for nitre

John Harrolson John Harrolson
where did you get the notion
to send your barrel around
the tow to gather up the lotion

We though the girls had work enough
in making shirts and kisses
but you will put the pretty dears
to patriotic pissing

John Harrolson John Harrolson
do pray invent a neater
and some what more modest way
of making your salt-petter
for tis a dreadful idea,
gun powry and cranky,
that every time a lady lifts her skirt
she shoots a bloody Yankey

It happened that the above lines got into the hands
of a Federal officer who new good thing when he saw
it and believed in pushing it along so he wrote what
he call a federal view of it.

John Harrolson John Harrolson
We read in son and story
That women tears through all the year
Had morstened fears of glory [??]

But never was it told before
How midest these scenes of slaughter
The southern beauties dried their tears
and went to making water

No wonder that your boys are brave
Who would not be a fighter
As every time he used his gun
He used his sweet-heart nitre

And vice-versa what would make
a yanky soldier sadder
that doging bullets fired by
a pretty woman's bladder

they say there was a subtle smell
which ingled in the powder,
and as the smoke grew thicker
and the din of battle louder

But there was found in this compound
one serious objection
No soldier boy could sniff it
With out having an erection

From a pocket diary-ledger book dated 1907-1916 from Portland, Oregon. Sorry for the transcription errors.

The diary is online here:

https://archive.org/details/1907-1916-bawdy-diary-ledger-book/page/n3/mode/2up?view=theater

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter
From: and e
Date: 03 Jun 23 - 10:31 AM

THE LAY
OF
JOHN HAROLDSON.

PRINTED FOR PRIVATE CIRCULATION.

PHILADELPHIA:
1866.


EDITION SIXTY-THREE COPIES.
No. [unnumbered]

TO
JOHN
THIS WORK
IS
MOST APPROPRIATELY
DEDICATED.

" The undersigned begs leave to inform the citizens of Selma,
that he has established a nitre manufactory in the vicinity
of the city. He most respectfully requests the ladies and
heads of families to reserve for him all their chamber lye.
Wagons with barrels will go round the city each morning to
carry off the same.

"John Haroldson."

On seeing the above advertisement in the "Selma (Ala.) Gazette," the following lines were written by a rebel officer, then a prisoner of war at Johnson's Island.

I.
John Haroldson, John Haroldson,
You are a funny creature!
You've given to this cruel war
A new and useful feature.
You let us know, while every man
Is bound to be a fighter,
The women, bless them! must be put
To making lots of nitre.

II.
John Haroldson, John Haroldson,
Where did you get the notion
Of sending barrels round the streets
To gather up the lotion ?
I thought the ladies did enough
In sewing shirts and kissing;
But you must put the lovely dears
To patriotic p——g.

III.
John Haroldson, John Haroldson,
Can't you suggest a neater
And somewhat less immodest way
Of making your saltpetre ?
Indeed, the thing's so very odd,
Gunpowder-like, and cranky,
That when a woman lifts her shift
She shoots a bloody Yankee.

IV.
John Haroldson, John Haroldson,
You call beyond all reason!
What! would you work the lovely dears
Both in and out of season?
It is enough they bear our sons;
But you would call still louder.
Not only must they find the men,
But also furnish powder.

V.
John Haroldson, John Haroldson,
The savior of secession.
Your genius hath devised a way
To meet such great oppression.
Let Bragg retire; let Yankees take
The whole of Tennessee.
In all the land sure none can find
Saltpetre-caves like thee!

VI,
John Haroldson, John Haroldson,
True, by this novel feature,
You've made the woman of the south
A doubly curious creature;
Nobly she bears our sons; and then,
Our enemies to kill,
She quickly doth herself convert
Into a powder-mill.

VII.
John Haroldson, John Haroldson,
Your name shall live in story;
Saltpetre-caves your genius finds
Exhaustless, migratory.
When you retire, they lead the way,
In double ranks or single,
And never halt 'til in the Gulf
Their chamber-lye they mingle.

This is the pamphlet The Lay of John Harroldson

Available online here:

https://archive.org/details/1866-the-lay-of-john-haroldson

I doubt that this was really printed 1866 but it is 19th century as this title appears in an 1893 book sale catalog.

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter
From: and e
Date: 03 Jun 23 - 09:50 AM

AN INCIDENT OF THE LATE WAR

The latest accounts to hand state that the value of the ammunition used by Admiral
Dewey at the bombardment of Manila was only £9,400 and by the Atlantic fleet at
Santiago about £20,000. At Manila 5,681 projectiles are now said to have been fired
and at Santiago 7,581 shells.

"During the latter period of the Spanish-American War, the supply of ammunition in
the Spanish Camp was so short that a member of their Ordnance Department devised a
scheme for providing the necessary ingredient, Saltpetre, and as an experiment
inserted the following advertisement in a Manila Newspaper:--

"'The ladies of Manila are respectfully requested to preserve their Chamber Lye as
it is very needful to the cause of Spain in the manufacture of nitre, a necessary
ingredient of gunpowder. Wagons with barrels will be sent to residences daily to
collect and remove the same.'

"(Sgd.) 'Don Camara'"

Don Camara, Don Camara, you are a funny creature;
You've given to this cruel war a new and curious feature.
You'd have us think, while every man is bound to be a fighter,
The women (bless the pretty dears) should save their P for nitre.

Don Camara, Don Camara, where did you get the notion
To send your barrels round the town to gather up the lotion?
We though the woman's duty done in keeping house and diddling,
But now you'd put the pretty dears to patriotic piddling.

Don Carama, Don Camara, do pray invent a neater
And somewhat less immodest way of making your Saltpetre.
The thing's so very queer, you know, gunpowder-like and cranky
That when a lady "jerks her brine," she shoots a bloody Yankee.

"One copy of the above was sent home to New York where a wag saw it and sent
the following reply:

Don Camara, Don Camara, we've read your song and story.
How women's tears in all these years have sprinkled fields of glory;
But ne'er before did women help their braves in deeds of slaughter
Till Spanish beauties dried their tears and went to making water.

No wonder, Don, your boys are brave,-- who would not be a fighter,
If every time he shot a gun he used his sweetheart's nitre?
And vice versa, what would make a Yankee soldier sadder
Than dodging bullets fired from a pretty woman's bladder?

We've heard it said a subtle smell still lingered in this powder
And as the smoke grew thicker and the din of battle louder
That there was found in this compound a serious objection,--
The soldiers could not sniff it without getting an erection.

'Tis clear now why desertion is common in our ranks;
An Arctic nature's needed to withstand Dame Nature's pranks.
A Yankee boy can't stand the press when once he's had a smell;
He's got to have a "bit" or bust, -- the cause can go to Hell.

Manila, P.I.; July 4th, 1899

A broadside in the Gordon Inferno of the Library of Congress' folksong archive, No,
3916, "An Incident of the Late War," updates the song to the Spanish-American War.

See online here:

https://archive.org/details/1917gordoninfernocollection/page/38/mode/2up?q=3916

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter
From: and e
Date: 03 Jun 23 - 09:22 AM

"During the latter part of the Civil War, the Confederacy was short of salt petre,
one of the most necessary ingredients of gunpowder. The following advertisement in
the Salem, Alabama Sentinel shows an original method of obtaining a supply:
"The ladies of Salem are respectfully requested to preserve their chamber lye, as it
is very needful in the cause of the Confederacy in the manufacture of nitre, a
necessary ingredient of gunpowder. Wagons with barrels will be sent to residences
daily to collect and remove the same.

"(signed) John Harrolson
"Agt. Ordnance & Minging Bureau
"C.S.A."

"The scheme was so novel that a local wit perpetrated the following:

"John Harrolson, John Harrolson, you are a funny creature,
You've given to this cruel war, a new and curious feature.
You'd have us think, while every man is bound to be a fighter,
The women, bless their pretty dears, should save their pee for nitre.

"John Harrolson, John Harrolson, where did you get the notion
To send the barrels around the town to gather up the lotion?
We thought the women's duty done in keeping house and diddling,
But now you'd set the pretty dears to patriotic piddling.

"John Harrolson, John Harrolson, do, pray, invent a neater
And somewhat less immodest way of making your saltpetre.
The things's so very queer, you know, gunpowder-like and cranky,
That when a lady jerks her brine she shoots a bloody Yankee.

"A copy of this found its way through the lines and a Vermont corporal wrote
the following which was sent back to the Rebel camp:

"John Harrolson, John Harrolson, we read in song and story,
How women's tears in all these years have sprinkled fields of glory,
But ne'er before did women help their race in deeds of slaughter,
'Till Southern beauties dried their tears and went to making water.

"No wonder, John, your boys are brave. Who wouldn't be a fighter?
If every time he shot his gun, he used his sweetheart's nitre?
And, vice versa, what could make a Yankee soldier sadder,
Than dodging bullets fired from a pretty woman's bladder?

"We've heard it said a subtle smell still lingered in the powder,
And as the smoke grew thick and the din of battle louder,
That there was found in this compound a serious objection:
The soldiers could not sniff it without causing an erection.

"'Tis clear now why desertion is so common from your ranks:
An Arctic nature's needed to withstand Dame Venus' pranks.
A Southerner can't stand the press -- when once he's had a smell.
He's got to have a piece or bust -- the peace can go to hell.

From The Canfield Collection (c1926) by an unidentified informant. It is close to the
text in Randolph "Unprintable" collection Volume 2, Blow the Candles Out, pp. 659-662.

This is available online here:

https://archive.org/details/1926canfieldcollection/page/n71/mode/2up?q=patriotic

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter
From: Lighter
Date: 03 Jun 23 - 09:04 AM

The broadside publisher is correctly "De Marsan."

Oxford traces "chamber-lye" to the mid-sixteenth century and defines it as "Urine, esp. as used domestically or agriculturally, typically for a purpose such as washing, the preparation of crops, or the care of horses."

According to E. Merton Coulter's "The Confederate States of America, 1861-1865" (University of Texas, 1950):

"In 1862...the Niter and Mining Bureau was set up to intensify the production of niter as well as coal, copper, lead, iron, and other minerals. The Bureau now resorted to a method of production, familiar to Europeans, which involved the development of niter beds, or 'nitriaries' as they came to be called. Pits two feet deep were dug and filled with carcasses, stable manure, and decaying vegetable matter, and as decomposition progressed, putrid water and organic liquids collected from the towns and neighborhood were sprinkled over the beds. Eighteen months later, after occasional mixing operations, this soil was put in hoppers and water drained through it. The niter was recovered from this drainage. Stray dogs afforded many of the carcasses used, which led a wit to remark, ‘Soldiers using this powder are said to make a peculiar dogged resistance.'”

About Jon Haralson (1830-1912):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Haralson

The poems scan poorly to "John Anderson." "Maryland, My Maryland" is a more obvious melody, though the lyrics go better as a recitation.

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter
From: and e
Date: 03 Jun 23 - 08:53 AM

AN INCIDENT OF THE LATE CIVIL WAR.

During the later period of the war the question of supplies
for the Army of the Confederacy became so serious that
various expedients were resorted to in order to enable
them to continue the struggle. For about two years their
supply of ammunition had depended upon successful
running of the blockade, but so many of the vessels had
been captured that one of the ordnance bureau devised a
scheme for providing the necessary ingredient (salt petre),
and as an experiment inserted the following advertisement
in the Salem, Ala., Sentinel:

"The ladies of Salem are respectfully requested to
preserve their chamber lye, as it is very needful to the
cause of the Confederacy in the manufacture of NITRE--a necessary
ingredient of gunpowder. Wagons with barrels will be sent to the
residences daily to collect and remove the same."

(Signed)    JOHN HARROLSON,
Agent Ordnance & Mining Bureau.

The scheme was so original, not to say unique, that a local wit
(home on sick leave) perpetrated the following, which was
printed and quickly circulated:

John Harrolson, John Harrolson, you are a funny creature,
You've given to this cruel war and new and curious feature,
You'd have us think, while every man is bound to be a fighter,
The women (bless the pretty dears) should save their P for Nitre.

John Harrolson, John Harrolson, where did you get the notion
To send your barrels 'round the tow to gather up the lotion?
We thought the woman's duty done in keeping house and d'dling,
But now you'd put the pretty dears to patriotic piddling.

John Harrolson, John Harrolson, do pray invent a neater
And somewhat less immodest mode of making your salt petre.
The thing's so very queer, you know, gunpower like and cranky,
That when a lady "jerks her brine" she shoots a bloody Yankee.

It so happened that one of these copies was used as
a wrapper upon a plug of tobacco sent by a "Johnny Reb."
to a Federal picket in exchange for a ration of coffee,
and a Corporal B.-------- of the -------- Vermont Regiment
(a Dartmouth graduate), wrote the following impromptu and
returned to the sender, with his compliments. No rejoinder
was ever returned to our lines:

John Harrolson, John Harrolson, we've read in son and story,
How women's tears in all these years have sprinkled fields of glory;
But ne'er before did wome help their braves in deeds of slaughter
'Till Souther beauties DRIED thier tears and went to MAKING water.

No wonder, "John," you boys are brave; who would not be a fighter
If every time he shot his gun he used his sweetheart's nitre?
And vice versa what could make a Yankee soldier madder,
Than dodging bullets fired from a pretty woman's bladder?

We've heard it said a subtle smell still lingered in this powder,
And as the smoe grew thick, and the din of battle louder,
That there was found in te compound a serious objection--
The solderis could not snuff it without causing an erection.

'Tis clear now why desertion is so common from your ranks;
An Artic's nature's needed to withstand "Dame Venus" prnaks.
A Souterner can't stand the press-- when once he's had a smell,
He's got to have "a piece" or bust, the cause can go to H--l.

This is an undated broadside [ca 1890s?], retrieved 2023-06-03 from

https://civilwartalk.com/attachments/james-great-great-grandfather-jones-pdf.110818/

Subject: RE: Lyr ADD: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter
From: and e
Date: 03 Jun 23 - 08:11 AM

To provide Saltpetre for manufacture of Gunpowder, the
Confederates had to resort to all sorts of devices, such as digging
out and leaching the earth from old smoke-houses, barns and caves
and making artificial beds of all sorts of nitrogenous refuse,--
having agents for the purpose in every town and city.

The agent at Selma, Alabama, was particularly energetic
and enthusiastic in his work, and put the following advertisement
in the Selma paper.

"The ladies of Selma are respectfully requested
to preserve the chamber lye collected about their premises for the
purpose of making nitre.

A barrel will be sent around daily to collect it.


John Harralson,

Agent Nitre and Mining Bureau."

This attracted the attention of one of the army poets
and the first of the two effusions given below resulted.

It was copied and privately circulated all over the Con-
federacy and finally crossing the lines, an unknown Federal poet
added the Yankee's view of it.

AN APPEAL TO JOHN HARRALSON.

John Harralson! John Harralson! You are a wretched creature,
You've added to the bloody war a new and awful feature.
You'd have us think while every man is bound to be a fighter,
The ladies, bless the pretty dears, should save their p- for nitre.

John Harralson! John Harralson! where did you get the notion
To send your barrel round the touwn, to gather up the lotion?
We thought the girls had work enough in making shirts or kissing,
But you have put the pretty dears to patriotic p-------.

John Harralson! John Harralson, do pray invent a neater
And somewhat less immodest mode of making your saltpetre;
For tis an awful idea, John, gunpowdery and cranky,
That when a lady lifts her shift she's killing off a Yankee.



THE YANKEE'S VIEW OF IT.

John Harralson! John Harrolson! We've read in song and story
How Woman's tears, thro' all the years, have moistened fields of glory.
But never was it told before, how, mid such scenes of slaughter,
Your sothern beauties dried their tears and went to making water.

No wonder that your boys were brave! Who couldn't be a fighter,
If every time he shot his gun he used his sweethearts nitre.
And, vice-versa, what could make a Yankee soldier sadder,
Than dodging bullets fired by a pretty woman's bladder.

They say there was a subtle smell that lingered in that powder,
And as the smoke grew thicker and the din of battle louder,
That there was found to this compound one serious objection,
No solder could sniff it without having an erection.

Typscript, undated, from The Clay M. Greene Collection, (1850-1933), Santa Clara University

https://cdm17268.contentdm.oclc.org/digital/collection/p17268coll7/id/242/rec/3

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Chamber Lye / John Harloson's Saltpeter
From: and e
Date: 02 Jun 23 - 10:00 PM

NOTICE.

The undersigned begs leave to inform the Citizens of Selma and vicinity
that he has established a Niter Manufactory in the Suburbs. West of the
City, for Government purpose. He respectfully requests the Ladies and
Heads of Families to reserve for him all their Chamber-Lye. Wagons
with barrels will proceed around the streets, each morning, to gather up
the same.                              Signed: JOHN HARROLSON.

The above is extracted from the advertising columns of the SELMA
(Ala.) SENTINEL.

The following Ditty was composed by a Rebel Officer and Prisoner
of War on Johnson's Island: Air: John Anderson, my Jo.

John Harrolson! John Harrolson!
You are a funny creature!
You have given to this Cruel War
A new and useful feature!..
You let us know while every man
Is bound to be a fighter,
The ladies, bless them, should be put
To making lots of Nitre.

John Harrolson! John Harrolson!
Where did you get the notion
Os sending barrels 'round the street
To gather up THAT lotion!
I thought the women did enough
In sewing shirts and kissing..
But you would put the lovely dears
To patriotic pissing

John Harrolson! John Harrolson!
Can't you suggest a neater
And cleaner method for our folks
To make up their saltpeter?
Indeed the thing is very odd,
Gunpowder-like and cranky
That: when a woman lifts her shirt,
She shoots a Horrid Yankee!....

H. De Mapsan, Publisher
54 Chatham Street, New York

This undated [1865?] broadside is from the Bell I. Wiley papers, Emory University.

Please note that the tune indicated is "John Anderson, my Jo." and NOT "Oh, Tannenbaum (aka Maryland, My Maryland)". The publisher H. De Mapsan published other broadsides from this address.

See the broadside online here:

https://archive.org/details/1865-john-harrolson

Subject: ADD: Rebel Gunpowder
From: and e
Date: 02 Jun 23 - 09:19 PM

REBEL GUNPOWDER.

[From the Sema (Ala.) Sentinel of Oct. 1, 1863.]

"The Ladies of Selma are rspectfully requested
to preserve all their chamber ley collected about
their premises, for the purpose of making 'Nitre.'
Wagons, with barrels, will be sent around for it by
the subscriber.

[Signed,]          JOHN HARROLSON,
Agent of Nitre and Mining Bureau.

John Harrolson! John Harrolson!
You are a funny creature;
You've given to this cruel war
A new and curious feature.
You'd have us think while ev'ry man
Is bount to be a fighter,
The women, (bless the pretty dears,)
Should be put to making nitre.

John Harrolson! John Harrolson!
How could you get the notion
To send your barrels 'round the town
To gather up the lotion.
We think the girls do work enough
In making love and kissing
But you'll now put the pretty dears
To patriotic pissing!

John Harrolson! John Harrolson!
Could you not invent a meter [sic],
Or some less immodest mode
Of making our salt-petre?
The thing, it is so queer, you know--
Gunpowder, line the crankey--
That when a lady lifts her shift
She shoots a bloody Yankee.

John Harrolson! John Harrolson!
Whate're was your intention,
You've made another contraband
Of things we hate to mention.
What good will all our fighting do,
If Yanks search Venus' mountains,
And confiscate and carry off
These Southern nitre fountains!

Undated broadside [1865?]. See online here:

https://wakespace.lib.wfu.edu/handle/10339/345

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Sourdough
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:57 AM

Yes,

When it is good, it is very, very good.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bluebeard
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 12:36 AM

As a re-enactor with the 10th Louisiana and a member of the 1860's band Hardtack and Harmony, may I say how great the Mudcat Cafe is. I found this thread last week,our unit put on the biggest CW event in Canada and I came back to find another great period song.Thanks everyone !

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Sourdough
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 04:34 AM

Ole Bull:

Thank you for pointing out the mythical effects of saltpeter. When I was in high school, it was believed wholeheartedly by us that the school put saltpeter in our food although no one knew exactly why we believed this so firmly. Even so, I was astounded at how widespread the belief was. I would think that if there were enough saltpeter used to dampen the spirits of the adolescent males of the world, at least those gathered into groups such as schools and armies, there would be none left for shooting at each other.

Hmmm. I guess that would be a good bargain.

A reflective Sourdough

Subject: Lyr Add: CHAMBER LYE (WWI Version) ^^
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 01:39 AM

Words as per Sandy Paton 08-Aug-00 - 10:05 PM appear in "SingOut" Vol 4o No 3 page 113, under the title "Chamber Lye" with alternates "The Saltpeter Song" or "John Harrolson, John Harrolson" This is from Faith Petric's column "The Folk Process."

The Southern version is credited to Homer Smith for lyrics, Tune unknown.

The Northern version is listed as lyrics and tune by 'unknown.'

The WWI version, under title " Chamber Lye" or "Von Hindenberg" may be found in "A Book Of Vulgar Verse" by 'A Gentleman about Town,' Published by Checkerbooks, Inc., Toronto, ISBN 0-89009-411-X, page 101:

CHAMBER LYE (WWI Version)

Von Hindenberg, Von Hindenberg,
You are a funny creature;
You've given the cruel war
A new and funny feature.

You'd have us think while every man
Is bound to be a fighter,
The women, bless their hearts,
Should save their pee for nitre.

Von Hindenberg, Von Hindenberg,
Where did you get the notion
Of sending barrels 'round the town
To gather up the lotion?

We thought a woman's duty
Was keeping house and diddling,
But now you've put the dears
To patriotic piddling.

Von Hindenberg, Von Hindenberg,
Pray do invent a neater
And somewhat less immodest way
Of making your saltpetre.

For fraulien(sic) fair of golden hair,
With whom we all are smitten,
Must join the line and jerk her brine
To kill the bloomin' Briton.

Von Hindenberg, Von Hindenberg,
We read in song and story
How many tears in all the years,
Have sprinkled fields of glory;

But ne'er before have women helped
Their braves in bloody slaughter,
'Til German beauties dried their tears
And went to making water.

No wonder Von, your boys are brave
Who would not be a fighter,
If every time he shot his gun
He used his sweetheart's nitre.

And vice versa, what would make
An allied soldier sadder,
Than dodging bullets fired from
A pretty woman's bladder?

We've heard it said a subtle smell
Still lingers in the powder,
The battle-smoke grows thicker still,
And the din of battle louder;

That there is found to this compound—
A serious objection—
A soldier cannot take a sniff
Without having an erection.

And it is clear now why desertion
Is so common in your ranks;
An Arctic nature's badly needed
To stand Dame Nature's pranks.

A German cannot stand the strain.
When once he's had a smell,
He's got to have a piece or bust—
The Fatherland to hell.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: GUEST,Ole Bull
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 03:52 PM

Here's a last word on saltpetre, FYI.

That saltpetre, potasium nitrate, is put in institutional foods to quell the sexual urge is one of the classic urban legends, old wives tales, superstitions or whatever you want to call it. In addition to being a nitrogen source for the making of gunpowder it was for years a curing agent to preserve meat in the days before refrigeration and especially necessary for military rations; in salted pork and salt beef (known fondly to the soldiers as "salt horse"). It has since been replaced by sodium nitrate, the cure of choice for foods such as bacon.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Noreen
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 07:00 AM

NH3 is ammonia, Fedele. Good explanation.
Bill D,- true up to a point, depending on what sort of beer you drink! The more water you drink the better for your kidneys for that reason, but alcohol is a diuretic, so strong beers and spirits make you lose more liquid from the body than you have drunk which is BAD for the kidneys and evereything else(dehydration being one of the main causes of hangovers).

So that's why they make all those GP beers- it's for your own good!

Noreen

[GP= gnat's piss]

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: GUEST,Fedele
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 06:08 AM

That´s what I´m gonna say to all my patiens when I´ll be a doctor.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:41 PM

**deep thought and analysis**......so, the more beer you drink, the more you go...therefore the fewer bacteria get a foothold (so's to speak) to create infections.. and the safer everything is....hmmmm...as if I NEEDED another reason to have another beer..

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: GUEST,Fedele (in Germany now)
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:57 AM

Just to tell you that urine is useful if a mosquito or something bites you because it contains a bit of NH3 (don´t know the English word). If you can´t avoid... But it works.
Urine is sterile when it´s in the bladder; when it gets out, it gets contaminated by bacteria that are further on; so if you need sterile urine, just start pissing and you can say you´re pissing sterile urina after a few seconds. That´s the way you do if you´re collecting your urine to see if you have a bladder or kidney infection.
It´s not really a matter of male or female, but women usually get infections in their bladder much more often than men because their duct is shorter, so it´s more probable their urine is not sterile.
Well, I should not have complained when I studied these things when I had that Microbiology exam. You see, they´re useful also outside my university.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: GUEST,Penny S.
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:29 AM

On the manufacture of alum, a tale I heard from the Open University on a Summer School at Durham. The recipe was acquired from a Vatican factory by spies. The Pope had the monopoly, and having just pronounced a fatwa on Elizabeth 1, buying the stuff from him was clearly a no-no. Burn the alum rich clay with seaweed. Mix the results with urine, and then boil the liquid until an egg floats in it. The alum will then crystallise out. How did they invent these processes?

Penny

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:25 AM

Sourdough,there must be sites that have more about urine than the Mudcat,although it's true that the more beers I drink,the more often I post. I'm also finding that I sometimes get up in the middle of the night with an overpowering urge to post,but by the time I get to the computer,it's passed.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Sourdough
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:39 PM

Sometimes I think I spend too much time on the Internet. While researching something totally different, I stumbled across this site, more about urine than anyone could possibly want to know. However, if you have not yet had your fill, so to speak, .....

Sourdough

Subject: RE: P. for LEE!
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 10:04 PM

As a Civil-War reenactor with the 3rd Maine Volunteer Infantry Fife & Drum Corps, Camp Balladeer and collector of this sort of music, I can assure you that this song may well find it's way to the circle of friends around the campfire of our illustrious Unit. A similar tune, "The Atrocity Song" to be found amidst the Mudcat collection, is a favorite of the Old 3rd's, a rousing rendition of which may be heard lustily rendered at nearly any gathering of the Company Loyals. Thanks to all who dug this one up - I trust it will be entered into the Archives.(?)

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: GUEST,Allan Janus
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 09:06 PM

Thank you very much - everyone - for all your help - the net remains a wondrous place!

Sandy, thank you for the lyrics - I've passed them on to my buddy. And it's very nice to make your acquaintance. Joe, thanks for the email this morning - I had been keeping track of the discussion, but I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

Allan Janus

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bert
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 07:03 PM

Joe, What are those OTHER two guys gonna think when they receive the lyrics in the mail?

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 11:41 AM

And I am saved a trip to the library. Bless you, Sandy. We should find a way of getting this into the hands of rappers. Think of the possibilities.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bud Savoie
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 07:23 AM

Absolutely fantastic! How come none of us have heard of this song before now?

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 02:12 AM

Write a few more verses to contribute to the pot, Lonesome (pun intended). Then post 'em here for us.

Sandy

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:49 AM

Great lyrics,Sandy, but I think the author missed some obvious targets by not calling for "a squat and a pee for General Lee" or demanding "fill up them jars for the stars and bars". A classic nonetheless..

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:44 AM

I went to Switchboard.com and found three people named Allan Janus. I e-mailed all three of them.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 10:44 PM

I actually don't believe this!! Is Mudcat GREAT or what? Marvelous, wonderful results from nothing but a possible title!! Do we have any way to send GUEST ajanus the sets of lyrics that Sandy and Bill D came up with? Joe, Pene, or Max the Belaguered, could you do that? My gods, the things you learn on the 'Cat...........

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 10:26 PM

Well now as you would expect the WWI version is an interesting composite with some mods.....the folk process in action!

Now we need a pair of our reenactors, a blue and a butternut, to perform the originals at a reenactment.

Banjer??? Irish Sergeant???

Spaw....thanks Sandy...and Bill . Much appreciated.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 10:07 PM

Thanks Bill......some really funny lines, and that last verse is a riot! Hopefully we can see what changed from the CW version.

Spaw

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHN HARLOSON'S SALTPETER^^^
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 10:05 PM

Two Civil War versions in Randolph's Blow the Candle Out. Here's the first (Confederate):

JOHN HARLOSON'S SALTPETER^^^
Montgomery, Alabama, 1864

NOTICE: The ladies of Montgomery are respectfully requested to save all the chamber lye that accumulates on their premises, so that the saltpeter can be extracted from it to be used in making gunpowder for the Army. A barrel will be sent around each morning to collect it.
John Harloson
Agent, Confederate Army

John Harloson, John Harloson,
You are a wretched creature,
You've added to this bloody war
A new and useful feature.

You'd have us think that every man
Is bound to be a fighter,
While the ladies, bless the pretty dears,
Must save their pee for nitre.

John Harloson, John Harloson,
Where did you get the notion
To send your barrel 'round the town
To gather up the lotion?

We thought the girls had worked enough
In making shirts and kissing,
But you have put the pretty dears
To patriotic pissing.

John Harloson, John Harloson,
Do pray invent a neater
And somewhat less immodest way
Of getting your saltpeter.

For it's an awful idea, John,
Gunpowdery and cranky,
That when a lady lifts her skirts
She's killing off a Yankee.

---

(The confederate wits had a lot of fun with the "John Harloson" poem. Then the Federals got hold of it, and some Yankee wrote his version:)

John Harloson, John Harloson,
We've heard in song and story
How women's tears through all the years
Have moistened fields of glory.

But never have we heard, John,
That 'mid such scenes and slaughter,
Your southern beauties dried their tears
And went to making water.

No wonder Rebel boys are brave;
Who wouldn't be a fighter
When every time he fired his gun
He used his sweetheart's nitre?

And vice versa, what could make
A Yankee soldier sadder
Than dodging bullets fired by
A pretty woman's bladder?

They say there is a subtle smell
That lingers in the powder,
And as the smoke grows thicker
And the din of battle louder,

That there is found in this compound
One serious objection:
No soldier boy can sniff it
Without having an erection.


During World War I this song and its reply were revived, with the same story and most of the same lines, but now all run together as of the hard-pressed Germans being forced to use the ladies' "chamber lye" after the American entry into the war in 1917. See the Ed Cray text above, sung to the tune of "O Tannenbaum," or "Maryland, My Maryland."

Sandy ^^

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:27 PM

This still does not get the Civil War version, but I'm sure it will surface...*grin*

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:23 PM

Ok..that seems to work when I click on it...there is some option for viewing it at a larger size, but maybe this will do

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song ^^
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:20 PM

lets see if this stupid thing works..I put it in one of those online photo albums, and they make it a 9 step process to SEE it full size!...but just 'maybe' I have it

Chamberlye ^^

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: GUEST,Joe Fogey
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 07:51 PM

Urine was transported from London to Yorkshire where it was used in the manufacture of alum. It was also used for tanning leather 9and was up to the 60's in Afganistan - did you ever get too close o a cheap afghan jacket?

People used to earn their livings collecting dog shit on the streets of London. It was called "pure" and used for tanning fine leathers.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 07:35 PM

I have just scanned it from Erotic Muse....am uploading it now...hold on

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: ol'troll
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 07:09 PM

Urine was used in the middle ages to clean woolen clothing.The garmets were first soaked in urine to disolve the grease and grime and then rinsed in cold water.Both human and animal urine were used.

Urine is also used by the Ituri Forest Pygmies to treat the effects of an attack by the spiting cobra which, when disturbed, spits an uneering stream of venom into the eye of its victim. Apparently the prompt application of urine neutralizes the venom, thereby saving the victims eyesight. Wonder how they figgered that one out?

troll

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: SINSULL
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 05:15 PM

I'll try to get there this weekend. Or maybe I can get them to FAX it to me.
Wasn't there an episode of Seinfeld or Friends where someone gets stung by jellyfish and the others pee on her? Nasty business.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 04:31 PM

I'll type in the text as it is printed in Ed Cray's The Erotic Muse (First Edition) tonight, if some one like Charlie Baum doesn't get to it first. It's there, Charlie, under the "Chamber Lye" title, p. 140. (Wanna save me some typing?) Has to be the first edition though. Joe Offer tells me it's not in his second edition. Right now, however, I've gotta fly to the post office!

Sandy

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Bert
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 03:44 PM

I can't believe this thread has got this far without anybody mentioning Tom Paxton's "Filling a Bottle for Ronnie".

Bert.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: paddymac
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 03:29 PM

Just to contribute to the collective edification on the myriad uses of urine, it is/was also useful in tanning hides.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:49 PM

We need a NYC 'Catter.........Sinsull, Larry Otway (InOTB)...who else?

Spaw

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Burke
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:10 PM

New York Public has The Lay of John Haroldson 15p. on microfiche in its Humanities Microforms collection. Anyone in New York City who can go look at it?

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Giac
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 09:25 AM

When I was in boarding schools too far back to mention, it was common practice to put saltpetre in the food in both the boys and girls schools, to inhibit sexual urges. It had more of an effect on the boys, in that respect, but could have disastrous consequences for girls during their cycles. It was a barbaric practice and I hope it has long since been discontinued.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 09:15 AM

I would too!! And as for urea, go look at the labels on the stuff in your bathroom--skin lotion, some shampoos, shaving gels, LOTS of products have urea in them.

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 02:40 AM

LOL Joe......Prude??? ME??? Hey, I was the first one (way back up there) to mention it as a great cut healer! I really would like to see the words to this one.

Spaw

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 02:37 AM

Spaw, you give up too easily. Could it be you're becoming prudish on this subject?
Could it?
I KNOW Dick Greenhaus must know this one. I sent him a personal message, pleading with him to post the lyrics. And to hedge my bet, I sent a message to Sandy, too...
-Joe-

Subject: RE: A Curious Civil War Song
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 02:30 AM

Well Joe, I dunno, unless someone buys the recording and transcribes it or someone has access to the material Stewie referenced. I liked the use of the word "purported" use of ...chamber lye. I think we've all read enough now to be assured that the manner of use is true and not "purported."

Spaw