Frank Proffitt banjos

Subject: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:19 PM

Bank in about 1960, I acquired a handmade, black walnut fretless banjo made by Frank Proffitt. I played it for many years, but in the 1990s, the original possum belly head finally wore out. I was reluctant to replace the orginal head but I wanted to be able to play it so I got a former neighbor of Proffitt's, Clifford Glenn Clifford Chase, to replace the head (with goat, not possum). Meanwhile, I bought one of Mr. Chase's beautiful hand-crafted fretless banjos which is similar in style and construction, but more carefully made and 20 years newer. I don't use the Proffitt banjo at all now and might consider selling it, but not until I can get an idea of what it's worth. Anybody have any idea?

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:27 PM

Why don't you send Sandy Paton a personal message. He was a good buddy of Frank proffit's and you are probably aware that Folk-Legacy recorded Frank several times.

Rick

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: KathWestra
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:28 PM

Be sure to send an e-mail to Sandy Paton ([e-mail]) and ask him for his thoughts. Also Jeff Warner. Both not only have Proffitt banjos, but long personal histories with the Proffitt family, and with the Beech Mountain, NC, community and its music. Kathy

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: KathWestra
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:30 PM

Great minds! Hi Rick. We were obviously typing this original thought simultaneously. :-)

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Jed at Work
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:30 PM

I am curious aboutthe answer, too. So please come back and post any info you find. Thanks!

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:44 PM

Occasional Mudcatter DADGBE will probably also have an opinion. I sent him an e-mail and alerted him to this thread. If he doesn't respond, send him a personal message, and he'll respond sooner or later.
-Joe offer-

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 12:47 PM

Loving Frank Proffitt, I would be real curious too. Sandy ought to have some worthwhile info.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM

Wow. That's a lot of responses in a half hour! Thanks for the suggestions. I'll e-mail Sandy immediately. Gee, I just noticed that in my original message I referred to Clifford Glenn as Clifford Chase. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From:
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 05:50 PM

Bob. Can you give details about where Clifford Glenn can be contacted about the banjos he makes.

Thanks

Murray

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 07:03 PM

For Murray (and anyone else who's interested, Mr. Glenn can be reached at the following address and phone number. If buy one of his banjos, you won't be sorry. And his wife, Maybelle, makes a wonderful quilted fabric carrying case. Don't forget to tell them that Bob Baldwin told you about them.

Clifford Glenn 631 Big Branch Rd. Sugar Grove, NC 28679-9636    828/297-2297     

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 07:24 PM

Just a side note before Sandy arrives.......

If you have never been to this area of North Carolina and you have any interest at all in the music and instruments and general lore of Appalachia, you need to go. Several dulcimer makers in the general area who are some of the best anywhere, including John Mize, who's dulcimers are on display with the Smithsonian. Mr. Glenn is also well known as a dulcimer maker and the area where he lives, Beech Mountain, is a treasure of mountain singing and mountain lore. BTW, its also the home of another picker of some note (:<)), fella' named Doc Watson whose home is in the same county.

If you go, headquarter yourself in Boone and see the Museum at Appalachian State and make your day trips to all the places you will not regret seeing and hearing. You can pick up an informal session damn near anywhere. I walked into a music store in Boone, got to talkin' and the owner and I played a bit. Within an hour there were about 10 folks all having one helluva' good time and pickin' on the yankee they thought was OK.

Go.....You'll love it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 08 Aug 00 - 08:11 PM

Thanks, Spaw.

You are right. I would love it. I wish I could go right now.

I used to live in Greensboro NC in the mid-1960s and spent a lot of weekends in the mountains, visiting and jamming. I got up to the Carroll and Grayson County area of Virginia more often than I got to NW Carolina though, because it was closer.

Sometime in 64 or 65 my wife and I set out to visit Frank Proffitt, taking with us my old fretless that he'd made. One of his kids told us he'd gone into the hospital just a few days earlier. He never came out and I never met him.

I did get a chance to meet and play with Sydna Myers of Hillsville, Va. and Bascom Lamar Lunsford of South Turkey Creek outside Asheville. Our first visit to Mr. Myers' cabin was one of the more memorable events of my life.

Also back then, some really good old timers were annual contestants at the Galax Fiddlers' Convention where I had the pleasure of meeting Wade Ward, Kyle Creed, J.E. Mainer, China Poplin and many others. At Union Grove and the Asheville Folk Festival there was Red Parham, the incredible George Pegram, and a blind fiddler called "Lost John" who I only heard once and whose last name I never learned. Maybe you or some other Mudcatter can help me out and let me know if he ever made any records.

I visited Clifford Glenn last year and wish I'd had a chance to meet his mother who lives next door. She's a great, traditional storyteller.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 12:47 AM

I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help on evaluating the old Proffitt banjo. I really know nothing about the general value of instruments, and I'm often stunned by the prices I see placed on some of them. In this case, the value would be determined by the desire of the purchaser to have an original Proffitt instrument, even though the original "possom belly" head is gone, replaced with a goatskin head by Clifford Glenn. Glenn, by the way, makes wonderful instruments at very reasonable prices. I used to sell both banjos and dulcimers for him through Folk-Legacy's catalog. Anyone wanting to try their hand at a fretless banjo should write to him.

I'll ask around and see if I can come up with a ballpark estimate on the Proffitt instrument. If I learn anything, I'll refresh this thread.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 09:08 AM

Thanks, Sandy, for your help. By the way, Sandy's absolutely right about the Glenn banjos. I visited Glenn to have him replace the head on my Frank Proffitt banjo. When I saw Glenn's banjos, I had to have one. I don't remember what the price was, but it was remarkably low.

Subject: Westmead Bachelor Request
From: GUEST,Arkansas Red-Ozark Troubadour
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:17 PM

Howdy, Can anyone out there supply me with the English words to "The Westmead Bachelor"? Having a dickens of a time finding them. Thanks-

Arkansas Red-Ozark Troubadour Eureka Springs, Arkansas [e-mail]

---

This question transferred to this thread (click). Please post replies there.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Aug 00 - 01:53 PM

I've been looking around the net and can't find much info pricing wise without posting to a list group.

It always seems to me that most folk instruments outside of guitars go all over the board. Guitars have such appeal and are in great numbers so the pricing gets pretty understandable even for the rarest stuff. Not that you think the price is great or anything, but the collector market is so much bigger in guitars that the prices are almost standardized. Mandolins strike me as being second with banjos 3rd or lower.

I'll keep looking.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:04 AM

Thanks for your interest and help, Spaw.

I called Mugwumps and couldn't get a very clear idea. He thought maybe $300 because there aren't many people looking for this sort of thing. On the other hand, there aren't very many authentic, playable FP banjos available. I'd much rather hang on to it that sell it at that price.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:10 AM

LOL....I have a feeling that if you wanted to sell it at that price, there'd be a bit of a stampede around HERE!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:49 AM

Spaw, would Elderly Instruments have an idea? "Round here" doesn't limit your options these days. If you were to sell it on E-Bay and tip off people who might be interested (banjo and folk newsgroups, mailing lists, forums such as this) you might get a very high price, and you can set a reserve.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 05:15 PM

I might just offer it on ebay (the Frank Proffit, that is -- not the August Pollman shown in my pic).

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 06:18 PM

Just a bit of thread creepage...
Is Clifford Glenn related to Leonard Glenn? I have one of his (Leonard's) dulcimers.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 06:26 PM

You have a wonderful thing there Jeri.........Leonard is the father of Clifford and has been doing his thing for over sixty years.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 07:03 PM

Well, I'm wrong agin as usual. I got to wondering if he was still alive and found he had died in '97. He had been building instruments most of his life, but he only atarted building dulcimers in the 50's. Still, a long time!! Here's a Brief Bio with picture.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 07:21 PM

Thanks Spaw. This dulcimer was my first stringed instrument, purchased in '73. It's simple and beautiful, and I don't play it enough.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 08:21 PM

Leonard's wife is still living. A wonderful storyteller. She lives right next door to Clifford and Maybelle. This family may someday be as legendary as the Proffitts.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: DADGBE
Date: 21 May 03 - 01:59 PM

Thanks for the e-mail Joe. I'm answering it only 3 years after you sent it. Must be getting more prompt in my old age.

The Proffitt banjo which can be seen being played by the maker in the photo on a CD of his work put out by Folk Legacy is my favorite instrument. (Get Folk Legacy's releases of Frank's work if you haven't already. They're extraordinary!)

The instrument languished around casa Paton (then in Vermont). A couple of tuning pegs were missing and the back had warped by the time I first saw it about a year after Frank's death. Sandy dug into his stock of treasures and found some unfitted pegs which Frank had carved and gave the instrument and pegs to me: the greatest gift I've ever received.

It's walnut and fairly crudely fashioned. It shows hand tool marks and may have been made without power tools. The original skin appeared to be possum and had been stained with the same brown wood stain as the wood. That head disintegrated long ago. I replaced it with goat skin and flattened the warped back at the same time. The original bridge was also hand made of the same wood. After it cracked I made a walnut replacement based on the original pattern.

The only modernization is a set of fine tuners which are walnut beads which slide on each string just above the tailpiece.
It's played often and love greatly.

THANK YOU SANDY!!!!!

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Art Thieme
Date: 24 May 03 - 12:27 AM

I had one once.

Art

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 24 May 03 - 03:37 PM

I've got one now.

Jean

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 13 Jul 03 - 06:35 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: chip a
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 10:49 AM

Jan Davidson, director of John Campbell Folk School has one. He left it for me to play at a jam a few months back and it was a great little banjo. The inner sleeve looks to me to be a piece of stovepipe! I had a similar banjo for years which was built by Gordon Parris from Hayesville, N.C. It had a sleeve made of 6" pvc pipe! Stovepipe is the superior tone ring!

For those of you not familiar with the Folk School, have a look at thier website. Just the place for your next vacation. Ask Jan to let you see the Proffitt banjo when you get there.

Chip

http://www.folkschool.org/

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: oombanjo
Date: 14 Jul 03 - 03:17 PM

If any one Knows John Les ? who runs the Conway festival (Wales) Email([e-mail])John was saying that he has a Frank Proffitt for sale, and that it has F.Ps. name still etched into the origional possum skin. This was at the begining of June so I think that he still has it. Happy Bidding.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: GUEST,Iris
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 07:02 PM

Frank Proffitt is my grandfather. I am the daughter of his youngest
son, Gerold Proffitt.
The banjo signed by my grandpa is very interesting!

I'm very amazed that people still remember him all these years!!

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: frogprince
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 07:22 PM

Last year we saw Mark Dvorak perform for the first time. I was dying with curiosity about one banjo he had on stage; I'd never seen anything like it. I can't say for sure now if he said it was an original Proffitt, but if not it was of that style. Mark used it only to play "Tom Dulla" as Proffitt did it.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 07:51 PM

Iris, it's wonderful to hear from you! We don't just love him for his banjos; we also sing his songs. I must sing half a dozen songs that came through him. It is a treat to know you're out there.

Dan

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: RTim
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:59 PM

I am an Englishman - and think Frank Proffitt was wonderful - a truly great American musician. Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: fretless
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 11:22 AM

Iris, thanks for resurrecting this thread. As you are hearing, there are a lot of us out there who admired your grandfather for his playing and singing as well as his craftsmanship.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 11:49 AM

It's funny how we live on in unexpected ways, how Mudcat confers odd immortality. Downeast Bob (Robert F. Baldwin), my dear friend and frequent musical accomplice, died just about a year ago, November, 2007. At memorial events at his home last summer all the aforementioned instruments were either played or on the wall keeping watch.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: frogprince
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 11:53 AM

Here in Michigan, Matt Watroba plays some of Grandpa Proffitt every once in a while on "Folks Like US", on WDET from Detroit.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Mark Ross
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 02:38 PM

I used to have a Frank Profitt banjo that Dave Van Ronk gave me. Patrick Sky put a new head on it for me, but I left it with an ex-girlfriend when I moved West, and she refused to give it back, sigh.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Art Thieme
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 08:20 PM

I had one too.

I got it through George and Gerry Armstrong -- about 1960 also. They were highly influenced by Frank---being, as they were, making records for Sandy and Caroline Paton too. Actually, everyone around Folk Legacy was aware of Frank Profitt, and having one of his hand made banjos and/or dulcimers was part of us Chicago folkies way of learning about Appalachian folk music.

Then Frank Proffitt and Frank Warner came to the first U. of Chicago Folk Festival in 1961. It was and is still an extremely traditional festival where urban met the roots every February for over 40 years. But hanging out with Mr. Proffitt and Roscoe Holcomb and Elizabeth Cotten and Clarence Ashley and Doc Watson was how I, personally, recharged my trad batteries every year.

And those first years, the students lucked out when they hired the New Lost City Ramblers to be at the festival; indeed, Mike and John and Tom had the credentials and expertise and insights to run the workshops with a proper tone. They knew many, no, most of the right questions to ask the mountain folks and the blues-men and the cowboys and the union people like Sarah Ogan Gunning.

But Frank Warner on stage with Frank Proffitt talking about Tom Dooley---and Mr. Proffitt, when prompted, playing that song on his self-made banjo. Imagine my shock when the original tapes made by the Warners in those North Carolina mountains were finally issued on a CE. The backup on "Tom Dooley" employed by Frank Proffitt was on a guitar! ------- Well, live and learn.

This good thread just has me thinking back to those old banjos---and where mine went...

It was later in the decade of the sixties. A lady who waited tables at the first No Exit in Evanston was pregnant. (No, it wasn't mine!) But those were the days no legal abortions. Only back alley butchers were doing those. She was a good friend of mine---and I admit to having had a crush on her. Her parents had disowned her in Northern Wisconsin. She needed money bad for the procedure. Two guitars and that Frank Proffitt hand-made banjo got sold and the cash went to the lady.

Two days later I heard she was in the hospital. A Chicago taxi had hit her after she stepped off the curb in front of it. We never did ask her if it was on purpose. But for about a week I took a thermos of cold Whisky Sours up to that hospital room. -----

Thankfully, she recovered and went home to Wisconsin eventually. Many years later, I was singing at a festival up that way. I was putting my guitar in it's case, turned around, and there she was--in front of me.

Well, it was a great hug we shared right then and there. We both shared the same birthday-----and we agreed to be in touch every year on that day. But---it didn't happen. ----- So, Mark, that's the tale of my Frank Proffitt banjo--- and the lady friend connection to boot.

Wondrous warm recollections---all of 'em. ------- If it wasn't for time, we'd have to do everything all at once.

Art

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 08:30 PM

Iris, it is wonderful that you would come by here. There are a lot of us who still love your grandfather.   I think I've worn out maybe 4 or 5 cassettes....maybe more. He sang truth and honesty and that above all else makes him a great voice in the roots of folk. Sandy Paton's recordings of him are just about priceless.

Come back anytime......We're reasonably friendly and rarely bite.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: BK Lick
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 10:37 PM

Great story, Art -- it brought back a lot of memories for me too.
Dodi was playing a Frank Proffitt dulcimer at the Exit back then.
(Some mp3s are here.)

—BK

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: GUEST,Iris
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 11:01 PM

I hope we are talking about the same Frank Proffitt. He had a son
that is no longer alive named Frank Proffitt,Jr. He died when he was 58 years old in 2005. Now Frank Jr was my uncle. Now he did continue
the legacy of his father with the folk music. Not sure if he made
banjos or not. I would have to ask dad about that.

Copy this link below and there is a picture Frank Jr. holding a
banjo. Sorry folks that I had dropped in on your conversations. Very interesting folks, surprised that you are still listening and enjoying his songs. His banjos also. Thanks and have a good one.




http://www.davidholt.com/photos/tomdula.html

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Cool Beans
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 11:08 PM

Downeast Bob was originally from Chicago (more or less) and would have been there around 1960. Connections upon connections.

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 12:00 AM

Nothing to apologize about, Iris - you are most welcome in this forum. And yes, we are talking about your grandad. I think I remember hearing that Frank Jr. also made banjos.

It was Sandy Paton, who sometimes frequents Mudcat, who recorded Frank Proffitt - if I'm not mistaken, it was the very first Folk Legacy album.

Dan

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: katlaughing
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 12:06 AM

Wow, what a neat thread...what the heart of Mudcat really is. Art, thanks for telling me about it. Your posting is a keeper, as they always are when you start reminiscing and that's what makes them treasures, too.

All the best,

kat

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: banjoman
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 07:41 AM

Great thread - I remember Pete Seeger talking at an informal chat somewhere in England many years ago about Frank Proffitt and as best as I remember he said something like "See him stretch a bit of goatskin over an old piece of stovepipe and end up with something that makes sounds like they came straight from above"

Good to know he is still loved and talked about
Pete

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: GUEST,dulcimerjohn
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 08:21 AM

I always wanted one of Frank's dulcimers..me having 20 or so..

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: topical tom
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 11:14 AM

I first heard Frank Profitt's song "Going across the Mountains" played by Pete Seeger on a fretless banjo. A great song and sound.I think that it was on Pete's lp, "Dangerous Songs".

Subject: RE: Frank Proffitt banjos
From: Art Thieme
Date: 22 Nov 08 - 12:52 PM

Besides the 3 CDs of Frank Sr. on his Folk Legacy Records, Sandy Paton also recorded Frank Proffitt's LP album on Folkways Records. It is still available as a CD, on Smithsonian-Folkways Records.)

Sandy Paton was also on the bill at that first University Of Chicago Folk Festival in '61. So were Fleming Brown, cowboy singer Bob Atcher from the WLS Barn Dance, and later, the mayor of Shaumburg, Illinois for 20 years.-- Plus the Stanley Brothers, Chicago bluesman-streetsinger Arvella Gray, and George and Gerry Armstrong.

Art