Help: Elsie Marley

Subject: Lyr Add: HARVEST OF THE MOON^^
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 11:54 AM

I occasionaly sing a song (accompanied by my own poor concertine playing!) which goes as follows. The first half of Verses 4 and 7 drop to a different tune and meter giving some nice harmonies in, I guess, a relative minor.

1. "All the husbands and their wives, they were dancing for their lives. All to the tune of Elsie Marley."
"Instead of gathering up their differences and throwing them in the air and giving them to the wind that shakes the barley."

2. "All the children they were watching, every girl and every boy as we danced to the tune of Elsie Marley."
"But they'd learned a differenct tune from the harvest of the moon as they listened to the wind that shakes the barley"

3."And then Bridget she declared that she was not prepared to dance to the tune of Elsie Marley"
"She said she'd teach us all a song and we'd want to sing along if we listened to the wind that shakes the barley."

4."And the song that she sang could be heard for miles around. The air was full of harmonies you should have heard the sound."
"As she gathered up our differencies and threw them in the air and gave them to the wind that shakes the barley."

5."All the husbands and their wives, we were dancing for our lives. All to the tune of Elsie Marley"
"Until we gathered up our differencies and threw them in the air and gave them to the wind that shakes the barley."

6."And then we all declared that we were not prepared to dance to the tune of Elsie Marley."
"For we'd learned a different tune from the harvest of the moon as we listened to the wind that shakes the barley."

7."And the song that we sang could be heard for miles around. The air was full of harmonies you should have heard the sound."
"As we gathered up our differencies and threw them in the air and gave them to the wind that shakes the barley."


Now, I know I got the song from a live concert recording of Steeleye Span (They did it a bit better than me...;-)played on UK BBC radio2 but I know absoluteley nothing else about it! Can anyone help with things like -

Title?
Background? and finally -
What the hell is it all about anyway?

Cheers
D the G ^^

Line Breaks
added.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: MMario
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 12:10 PM

follow this link to learn a bit about elsie marley link

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Sean Belt
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 12:32 PM

Thanks for the link, MMario. And to Dave for asking the question.

Martin Carthy sings a song called "Byker Hill" which also mentions "Elsie Marley". I've wondered about that for years and now have the means to answer some of my questions. And THAT'S why I like this place so much.
- Sean

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 12:39 PM

I managed to find this: http://www.informatik.uni-hamburg.de/~zierke/steeleye.span/songs/harvestofthemoon.html but I can't say I am much wiser except that the title is Harvest of the Moon.

Elsie Marley is a well known song and tune from the North East of England. I must try to find out who she was.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 12:47 PM

Just found this:

The Marley family are quite numerous in some local phone books and the name may originate in the North East. The surname derives from the place name Marley of there are several places of this name throughout the country including Marley Hill in County Durham. marley place names are thought to mean the woodland clearin inhabited by ferret like Martens. Famous people with the surname Marley included Sir John Marley, the Mayor and defender of Newcastle during the Civil War of 1644.In 1750 a woman called Elsie Marley, perhaps a descendant of Sir John, became famous as the landlady of a pub called the White Swan at Picktree near Chester le Street. She was apparently very popular with her customers until she acquired some terrible unknown illness which caused her to go delirious. The disease proved fatal when in a moment of madness, poor Elsie escaped from her sick bed one night and ran across a nearby field. She fell into a disused coal pit and drowned. Elsie is commemorated in a local folk song called Di ye' ken Elsie Marley Hinny ? The first verse states 'Di' ye ken Elsie Marley, the wife that sells the barley hinny, lost her pocket and all of her money a' back o' the bush in the garden hinny'. A later verse refers to the lads of nearby Lambton who are to pay for Elsie's new straw hat.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jacob B
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 12:48 PM

There's a lot more that can be said about Alice Harrison Marley.

My source was Chappell, and I read it 20 years ago or more, so someone might want to double check me on this if they have a copy of Chappell handy. As I recall, it's misleading to say that Alice's husband Ralph ran the Swan inn. Alice ran the inn, and everybody knew it. She also was a large part of the reason people came to the inn: Chappell quotes from the diary of a traveller who stayed there one night and remarked about how well entertained his party was by the wit of the landlady. The dance tune Elsie Marley was written in her honor, and later a song was written to the melody of the dance tune. Because everybody knew how hardworking Elsie was, the songwriter was able to tease her about being lazy without giving offense.

Jacob

Subject: ADD: Elsie Marley ^^^
From: *Conrad Bladey Peasant-Inactive
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 01:36 PM

Elsie Marley

Elsie Marley - Alice Marley the wife of the innkeeper at Picktree. (South of the Washington village of Rickleton, close to the edge of the motorway near Chester le Street) She was very popular with her customers !. In old age she was confined to bed with a terrible illness, and became completely delirious. She escaped unnoticed from her sick bed one night. `Elsie' ran across a field nearby. She fell into a disused coalpit and drowned. The inn where Elsie worked is no longer standing. In: Elsie Marley among other things she does she wears a velvet cap where once she had a straw hat. (Source- My page of Newcastle persons mentioned in song- always under construction and a long ways to go! http://share.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/5863/gpersons.html )

chorus: Di' ye ken Elsie Marley, honey
The wife that sells the barley,honey
She lost her pocket and all her money
A-back o' the bush in the garden, honey

Elsie Marley's grown so fine
She won't get up to serve the swine
But lies in bed till eight or nine
And surely she does take her time.

Elsie Marley is so neat
It's hard for one to walk the street
But every lad and lass they meet
Cries "Di' ye ken Elsie Marley, honey?"

Elsie Marley wore a straw hat
But now she's getten a velvet cap
The Lambton lads mun pay for that
Di' ye ken Elsie Marley, honey?

Elsie keeps rum, gin and ale
In her house below the dale
Where every tradesman, up and down
Does call and spend his half-a-crown.

The farmers as they cum that way
They drink with Elsie every day
And call the fiddler for to play
The tune of Elsie Marley, honey.

The pitmen and the keelmen trim
They drink Bumbo made of gin
And for to dance they do begin
To the tune of Elsie Marley, honey.

The sailors they do call for flip
As soon as they come from the ship
And then begin to dance and skip
to the tune of "Elsie Marley," honey.

Those gentlemen who go so fine
They'll treat her with a bottle of wine
And freely they'll sit down and dine
Along with Elsie Marley, honey.

So to conclude those lines I've penn'd
Hoping there's none I do offend
And thus my merry joke does end
Concerning Elsie Marley, honey.

from Songs of Northern England, Stokoe
Note: mentioned in Byker Hill ^^^

---

Please don't copy songs from the Digital Tradition and post them in the Forum. I spent a good long time fooling with these lyrics for harvesting before I found out we already had this exact version. If posting the lyrics helps the discussion, then it's fine to post them - but be sure to include a note that the song is already in the database.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 04:04 PM

MMario's click-on above takes one to texts and notes by Murray on Saltspring. There Murray notes the early versions of the the tune "Piss upon the Grass" = "Nancy Dawson" (Mulbery Bush) in connection with "Elsie Marley". ABCs of early copies of both are in file T1.HTM on my website (Mudcat's Links).

The song above is in DT file ELSMARLY with a different tune.

"Byker Hill" collected by Sandy Paton and recorded by Martin Carthy is also in DT.

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: BigDaddy
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 05:20 PM

Harvest of the Moon is gently advocating a return to the Goddess, here personified as Bridget. The reference to the tune of Elsie Marley is more symbolic than literal. In other words, stop living our lives to the same old tired tune. Peter Knight gives a lovely introduction to Harvest of the Moon" when Steeleye Span performs it at concert venues.

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Aug 00 - 05:25 PM

Thanks BigDaddy, it is coming together slowly. What exactly is the Harvest of the Moon?

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: BigDaddy
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 01:35 AM

The moon has always been a personification of the Goddess. The moon has long ruled over traditional farming methods ("farmers' almanacs" are based on the moon's cycles). Harvesting is traditionally done as the moon wanes. Barley is sometimes used to represent love, healing and protection (also attributes of the Goddess). The song is a lovely way to bring together certain ideas, images and beliefs without being preachy or tedious. It honors the Goddess and advocates living in a harmonious way. Cheers!

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 01:43 AM

Thanks again BigDaddy - you have filled in the gaps for me.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 03:48 AM

Wow! I never knew I was singing a song full of such pagan symbolism. I had sort of half guessed that dancing to the tune of Elsie Marley must have symbolised discord in some way but I would have never gone with the Godess connection. But then again that's what a good Russion Orthodox/Catholic upbringing does for you;-)

Thanks to all who have contibuted and to Joe for putting in the line breaks.

How DO you do that BTW???

Cheers

D the G

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 03:55 AM

Dave, you just add < br > at the end of each line.

BTW, I am a Christian and it took me ages and help from BigDaddy to make any sense of the words.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 04:01 AM

I wonder if can get it into a reggae meter and change it to "All to the tune of Bobby Marley...."?

Thanks for the
Line break info
as well.

D the G

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 04:18 AM

Only problem there is Bob was more into the weed than the barley...

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 04:43 AM

Dave, my Gnomish friend - you need to listen to the version of 'Byker Hill' performed by the Barely Works - it's a reggae version, and very well done indeed... probably they were thinking the same way as you.

I'll dig out the name of the album, I know the track is on one of the New Electric Muse collections.

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 07:35 AM

I suspect that "The wind that shakes the Barley" is a reference to an Irish Patriot song which I think is sung by Cathal Connel among others?

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: The_one_and_only_Dai
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 08:50 AM

Er - no, I think it's a reference to, er, the wind that shakes the barley.

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:55 AM

Reckon you are the more correct Dai - The song I am on about certainly does not have any Irish patriot connotations. Perhaps there is another song of the same name?

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:34 AM

The Wind that Shakes The Barley is a popular reel.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Elsie Marley
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 11:23 AM

The prototype (earliest) version of "The Wind that Shakes the Barley", c 1812, (#5329 in 'Sources of Irish Traditional Music', 1998) is a somehat different from the other versions in the Irish tune index on my website, but all are a bit variant. 5 versions are coded in the file COMBCOD2.TXT and the stressed note codes can be simultaneously plotted with the program on my website. 'Sources of Irish Traditional Music' gives alternative names for the tune as "Rolling Down the Hill" (O'Neill's 'Dance Music of Ireland') and "The Kerry Lasses" (Breathnach's 'Ceol Rince...',II).