Tell me how to cook real Goulash!

Subject: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Fedele (now in Germany)
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 07:42 AM

Well, it seems that everyone has a different opinion on how to cook this stuff. Can someone tell me what is the REAL way? Oh, don´t do as always American people do, they take a special thing from another country and they MESS with it (Ive been in New York and tried to have some PASTA.... it sucked even in supposed "Italian" restaurants"...) Maybe some of you have Hungarian, or something like it, ancestors. Ok let´s try.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From:
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:03 AM

2lbs. diced prime beef ( shin if need be) 6 big ripe toms, skinned and seeded 4 tbsps paprika 4 lge onions peeled and chopped 1 bulb garlic 2 red peppers (sweet not hot) 4 tbsps olive oil

sweat onions peppers garlic in half of oil 15 minutes add beef that has been tossed in seasoned flour ( 4 tbsps flour blackpepper salt flowers off bunch of thyme) seal adding rest of oil, add toms and 1 pint beer and half a bottle of red wine a rioja or any with body. put in oven on low for 3 hours serve as appetite requires/ potatoes/rice/ bread/pasta

loosen belt, enjoy.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Giac
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:20 AM

Yummmmmmmmm! I'll try that, just as soon as the weather cools off enough to have an oven on for three hours. Thanks Neebrainbow, and thanks, Fedele, for asking.

Giac (who promises to NOT mess with recipes anymore, oh, well, maybe a little, you know, just a pinch of this or that, or ... ~:o)

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Bert
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 11:31 AM

Hi Neebrainbow, I haven't seen you around before, Welcome to Mudcat.

I looked in a Hungarian to English dictionary once and under Goulash they had 'Irish Stew'

Bert.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Sailor Dan at work
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 12:04 PM

Hey Bert

The definition is correct, And they both taste great.

Thank goodness its lunch time. I am going out and eat.

Sailor DAn

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Bert
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 01:35 PM

We can have fun with this.

STEW	IDENTIFYING INGREDIENTS
Goulash	peppers and paprika
Irish stew	potatoes
Scotch Broth	Pearl Barley
Khoresh	Dried Limes
Curry	Curry spices and coconut milk

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 04:33 PM

Now I understand why my mother's goulash always had potatoes in it. Restaurants here serve it over buttered noodles.

Fedele, if you want good pasta in NY you have to stay away from the Olive Garden and MaMa Leone's. The best - Felidia on the East side. Get there early and you'll find the usually formal bartender in his undershirt. And the chef will bring baskets of fresh herbs to your table for you to sample.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 06:47 PM

Trouble is, as we discovered in Hungary last year, there's paprika and paprika. Which you get can make a hell of a difference to your goulash.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 07:09 PM

Recipes such as stews are like folk songs, there's no 'real' version

Chuck whatever you want into the pot and claim it as a 'traditional' peasant version.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:22 PM

bert - good translation (fnarr fnarr) but one thing is correct: Goulash IS some kind of stew, NOT meat with sauce (preparing to hide for cover).

The definition of goulash is simple: same amount of beef and onions plus some spices. NOTHING ELSE! Put the meat and the onions in a pot and cook it as you would cook a stew, as long as it takes to convert the onions into what most of the people think to be sauce. Then add spices as you like, and that's the only point that can be discussed (one of my personal opinions is e.g. that salt and pepper must be applied to the meat first, before cooking it).

Especially goulash does not contain any flour, the 'sauce' is thick because it consists of pure onions, flavoured by the meat.

Also goulash is had with bread. Period! Best is fresh white bread ('crusty' for non-germans or non-french, in Germany sold as 'Broetchen', 'Semmeln' (Bavaria) or 'Wecken' (Baden-Wuerttemberg, south-west), in France ask for 'baguettes'). This is put into the 'sauce' in order to avoid needing a spoon.

Everybody who has goulash with potatoes, rice or even 'Semmelknoedel' (also typical bavarian to do so) has not yet understood that goulash is meant to be some good meal, not some cheap kind of sauce. Having goulash is having meat galore, not having cereals with something to wet them a little. (Heading for cover now, the germans will kill me if they get me...)

Some hints regarding the spices: Prefer soup cube to salt if you think you have to add some. Tomato puree gives a nice colour and also makes the whole thing a little sour (just a little, I like that). If you want it hot, you are free to use red pepper, Tabasco or even Sambal Oelek as much or as few as you like; goulash is meant to be enjoyed, not as a torture or some way you can prove that you're a man. Some people like marjoram in their goulash, some don't, I never tried it.

That's 'all'. :o)

Joerg

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 09:34 PM

SINSULL - noodles, yes, I forgot noodles. Goulash with noodles is like serving a pot of spaghetti with a 1x1'' steak for a BBQ.

Argh.

Joerg

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 10:33 PM

Gúlyas ;)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: WyoWoman
Date: 11 Aug 00 - 11:22 PM

I can't wait to try Neebrainbow's (?) recipe, whatever one calls it -- again, as soon as the weather cools enough to invite an oven being on for three hours. I can just imagine how the house will smell with that lovely concoction simmering. Mmmm. anyone want to come over? Bring crusty bread! And red, red wine ...

And how do you know the difference in paprika? (Of course, here in the center of the U.S. of A. I imagine our choices are pretty seriously limited ...

(This discussion reminds me of what happens in New Mexico if you ask for the "real" recipe for carne adovado or green chile stew. Or where I grew up, you could start a feud asking for the way to make real chicken fried steak or fried chicken. You get a bunch of GREAT recipes, but everyone thinks theirs is authentic and everyone else's is the pretender or Johnny-Come-Lately...And it's ALL GOOD.)

ww (who mostly eats salad these days)

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 05:25 AM

So what,Joerg,haven't you seen so far a pot of spaghetti topped with a steak?! First time I saw an avocado featured in some Fettuccini al Pesto I got pale.Then later I ate some Chicken chunks on pizza.What can you do,think about your ancestors revolting in their graves?!

Anatema Anatema....

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 05:26 AM

And,yes,I had goulash just once and it was in Oz....topping a nice pile of jasmine rice. You know,creativity and blasphemy...

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: WyoWoman
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 12:15 PM

When I was in Alaska two weeks ago I had a halibut pizza with capers. It was fabulous but it sort of made my tastebuds go "Errrk?" (At a place called The Moose's Tooth.)

ww

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: paddymac
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 05:10 PM

Gee, guys, now I'll to go hunt for my goulash recipe. If memory serves me right, it starts with a pound of paprika, then throw in anything you've got handy. (*BG*) Just teasing, really. Last time I had anything alleged to be "authentic" goulash it was so heavily laden with paprika that I couldn't eat it. Godawful stuff it was. But, I have had it other times when it was truly delightful. I also will wait for cooler weather and then try the recipes above.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 09:04 PM

ww - red, red wine... good choice (just don't forget that goulash is made of beef!). But if you're ever unsure choosing the right kind of wine, try beer (as one of our major chefs always says: "Bier geht immer." This is especially true for goulash.)

Lena - I love spaghetti with steaks - especially some special italian versions of this concept (drooling...), but I don't like to get some really poor version when I ordered goulash. You know, goulash is something as basic as broth. I hope everybody knows how to cook broth: Take meat, put it into water, cook it, what you get is broth. Replace the water by onions and you'll get goulash. The rest are details. BTW - nice to hear that the word 'paprika' is known in english. One of the more important spices, but it can never change meat with sauce (or even sauce without meat) to goulash.

I think I should explain my over-reaction. I recently went to Austria with some of my compatriots (to those who don't know, I'm german). Some of them ordered goulash. The Austrians (once having been compatriots of the Hungarians) of course know what goulash is. And those KRAUTS complained aloud! They would have accepted spaghetti bolognese for goulash. I'm always annoyed by being proud of stupidity. I'm getting angry when I can't help people believing that I am as stupid and proud of it. That happens...

So enjoy your GOULASH. It's easy.

Joerg

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: paddymac
Date: 12 Aug 00 - 11:33 PM

Joerg - I love that line: "being proud of stupidity." Those kinds of people exist everywhere, in every age and every culture and every clime. I get the feeling that often it's a ruse to hide their embarrasment at not knowing whatever the thing under discussion might be. I never could understand why some people find it so hard to say "I don't know." Other times, it's just plain barn-yard variety obnoxiousness.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 12:22 AM

... or even say "Uh-huh" ...

Thanks for your understanding, paddymac. Wouldn't learning be much easier without the need to admit that you didn't know yet?

Joerg

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 01:35 AM

If by chance you are truly in need of REAL spices that are fresh (this years' crop and not irridated) try going to Penzey's Spices . I mail order these, and they are at least 100 times better than what I can get at a market in the US. If you don't like OnLine buying, they have a hard copy catalogue. Small amounts are available, and shipping is NOT outraegous. Great Place. Several kinds of REAL Hungarian Paprika available. I use about a pound a year.

BTW, the word "curry" is a corruption of the Hindi (?) word for sauce. I roast,grind and mix my own "curry" spices, and the flavor that is usually identified as THE Curry spice is fennegrueek. Buy the ground stuff--it's like trying to grind rocks if you don't soak it ovenight in water before you roast it.

Bon Apetit!

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Escamillo
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 03:54 AM

Took note. (oohhh.. foooooodd)

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Sorcha
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 03:58 AM

Escamillo--food and music, or music and food? Tough one, eh?

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Escamillo
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 05:00 AM

Food after the concert, with all musicians. Isn't it a heavenly pleasure ? :))

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 07:14 AM

Considering the amount of recipeing around on the Mudcat,how about a folkies'cooking thread?!

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 07:18 AM

Cooking folk songs I can recall right now:

Donna Lombarda,a celtic/northern italian song recorded from Cate Murphy & Nigel Eaton;

And a jewish/italian renaissance song about seven ways to cook eggplant,recorded from 'The Renaissance Players',Australia

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 07:28 AM

And another napolitan 17 hundreds one about how to cook freshly fished tuna,'Rio Mare'

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Escamillo
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 02:05 PM

And there is a famous poem of Pablo Neruda "Oda al Caldillo de Congrio", still due to have a tune, describing how to cook the typical chilean fish. If someone is interested, I can post an English translation.

yummmm - Andrés

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 10:23 PM

'Davay', Andrés!

Joerg

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: WyoWoman
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 10:57 PM

We toyed around with the idea last year of doing a Mudcat cookbook to raise money for the 'Cat. Don't know what happened to that thread, but one thing is certain: Mudcateers love food about equally as much as they love music. (This is certainly true for me, although music would win out. But I just cannot imagine living the good life without delicious food. And I can't believe the number of people who think running by the local fast food place is actual eating. I think it's just filling the empty spot, which, sometimes you gotta do. But to live without creating and enjoying delicious food? Never!)

I had a really interesting experience today. (ATTN: Undeniable Thread Creep) I went to this small, cute little restaurant up in the mountains about 30 miles west of me, just driving around and exploring, and ordered their fried chicken and potato salad special. And when it arrived and I tasted it, it felt so absolutely familiar and delicious and all of a sudden I thought, "Wow. THis tastes just like MY chicken and potato salad." So I started visiting with the husband and wife who own the place (she's the cook) and they're musicians and on Saturday nights they push back the chairs at this little place and have a four-piece band and people come from all around to dance. So I'm going out to hear them on Saturday night.

This is absolutely meaningless, except that it was a fun encounter and I wonder if other food she cooks tastes like my stuff and if there are other ways we hit it off. Maybe a new friend ...

ww

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:15 PM

Oh no,that is actually very beautiful.To me,if you're a good devoted folk player you must be a good devoted cook...So,Andres,where is the poem?!Please include original text...

What was the name of the cookbook thread to refresh it?!I have a couple of tonns of contributions to make.I find it a great idea

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Escamillo
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:35 PM

You will find the Oda al Caldillo de Congrio in Click here

It includes a good translation. The best option is to decide a short trip to the South of Chile (and Argentina) in the next holidays, and take the caldillo while listening to Chilean folk and Neruda's poems next to Isla Negra, and never forget the experience.

By the way, the whole site is dedicated to the glory of SOUPS.

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 13 Aug 00 - 11:51 PM

Muchas gratias

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: WyoWoman
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 12:32 AM

I refreshed the thread and we'll see whatzup with the project now. I would do a blue clicky thing, but, well, I'm not that proficient yet ...

ww

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:06 AM

First peel two ghouls?

LTS *BG*

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Fedele (now in Germany)
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 05:34 AM

Ok, thank you. I always exaggerate when i try to be a "philologist" in music or in cooking. I just don´t like the idea of flour and I think a pint of beer and a bottle of wine is a bit too much - I think it should be less wet, but maybe if you let it cook 3 hours it will dry a lot. I will try. (in winter, of course)
I sometimes think people should eat just what their own country gives them... I still have nightmares when I think about that pasta, and the pasta they cook here in Germany is not much better. But it´s not the way you cook it: it´s the concept. Pasta is a dish with its own dignity: it´s not something you just put next to something else. And it should be a little more thick than they do in foreign countries. And it´s not a soup: it doesn´t need as much sauce as the pasta weighs.
Well, the point is also, you shouldn´t go to a foreign country and pretend you eat the things you eat at home, that´s quite stupid and offensive, you just should try the things they have there! (Italians abroad always behave this way, I´m sorry)
In NY I tried to have pasta because the food was expensive everywhere and I didn´t usually like it (don´t take offense but I still think American cooking is the worst in the world).
Well, just to tell you something, my neighbour has relatives in Texas, and when they came to Italy they didn´t like pizza: "ours is better". And the wurstels we use to eat in Italy, they don´t even call them wurstels but wursten, that´s the word; I mean, in Italy we just know the Frankfurter-type wurst, while "real" wursten are different and look more like sausages. I don´t like them very much, but I don´t complain and I don´t pretend that they´re not real "wurstels".
Ok. Thank u all.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 14 Aug 00 - 11:11 PM

Andrés -

Sounds gigantic, not only the poem. Something like fish goulash. Are those onions and tomatoes also cooked until they dissolve to some kind of sauce as the onions in the goulash? I know a recipe for fish steamed with only some salt, pepper, tomatoes and onions (great!). Never thought of a chowder with additional garlic, prawns and cream.

There is also a derivate of goulash called something like 'Szegedine Goulash': Use pork instead of beef and add as much 'Sauerkraut' as needed to completely absorb the sauce. Might be difficult to get good 'Sauerkraut' outside of Germany (at least I was told so) so I didn't mention this before. (If you can get some, mind that you must squeeze as much water as possible out of it before cooking. Add fresh water for that and - again - use broth cube if it doesn't become salty enough. The water pressed out of 'Sauerkraut' tastes very good while having some special effect on digestion: Plan your retreat if you drink it!)

Thank you.

Joerg

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Escamillo
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 12:50 AM

Joerg, I understand that the onions should not dissolve completely, and keep a golden appearance. Curiously Neruda does not mention any wine. I would add some white wine and let alcohol evaporate before adding the cream.

Moreover I think the cream will add favorably to the flavors but will be an addition of fat, and probably should be avoided or reduced in favor of health.

For the sake of health too, don't forget to serve a bottle (or more) of good Chilean wine, and good crackling French bread.

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Lena
Date: 15 Aug 00 - 06:41 AM

Wine is the coronation of a good dish,Fedele.Best dishes always have it in the cooking.The liquid goes away with a decent cooking,which means,as low a temperature as possible.It's one of the few secrets of italian cookings.You'll never find it practised in italian restaurants(except the one where I work,I'm pleased to say)and non-italians,non-french,insomma,all cultures coming from a fast cooking tradition(asian stir fries,for ex)can't work it out it quite often.We say:pazienza.Waiting is an act of love.I never go to italian restaurants,my place is enough,and when I eat out I like to try different cooking.It's not true that cuisine should be relegated to its own country,no no no.There is always something to learn from experiments,nouvelle cuisine is a good enough demonstration of it...for example.Pasta cooked in Sydney water is very yummy.

Before someone thinks me to be an amazing cook because of this blah blah blah,I can quote a non-italian boyfriend who preferred instant noodles to my traditioned italian cooking... It's a matter of taste.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: MudGuard
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 08:39 AM

And now for the one and only true Gulyash recipe:

Ingredient	Measure		comments
	Metric	Stupid
beef	1 kg	2 lb	cut into cubes about 2cm (1 in)
onion	600 g	1.5 lb	finely cut
red wine	0.2 l	1/2 pt	very dry red wine, not californian sugar-wine
sour cream	0.2 l	1/2 pt
tomato puree	25 g	1 oz
tomatoes	2 or 3		2 if small ones, 3 if big ones; cut very fine
Red peppers	2		remove inner part, cut into 2cm by 0.5cm strips (1 in by 1/4 in)
paprika powder (hot)	1 table spoon		replace part of it by chili if you like it hot (remember: Gulash has to burn twice, first time when it enters your body, second time when it leaves your body
butter	1 or 2 tablespoons		don't use oil or margarine instead!

Get big pot, put on flame until very hot.
Put butter into it.
As soon as butter is completely fluid, put all the meat in.
Fry until meat is sealed.
Put paprika powder (and/or chili) on it.
Fry for another minute, stirring a little bit.
Reduce heat, put red wine onto meat, then onions and red pepper.
Add water so everything is just covered.
Add tomato puree.
Stir so everything is mixed quite good.
Get it to just boil.
Reduce heat so it just keeps boiling.
Put lid on pot and keep it boiling for about 45 minutes.
Add sour cream (and salt and pepper if you wish) and stir.
And now for the most important part: enjoy.

---

You might just have bread with it, or - as I prefer it - with homemade "Spätzles" (a kind of pasta which is very common in some parts of southern Germany and in some parts of Austria).

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Naemanson
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 01:18 PM

Metric and Stupid as units of measurement? I love it (though I would also insulted if I weren't too stupid to use metric)

Fedele, I am curious (not insulted). What American cooking are you referring to as the worst in the world? I tired to think of something to suggest but everything I could come up with came from other countries. We have Frendch, German, Mexican, Chinese, etc. Of course, what we are served here is not the actual cuisine of those countries but an Americanized version. Perhaps that is what you meant.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Bert
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 02:27 PM

No. It's the other way around. Metric is the one that's stupid. Systems of units grew out of convenience of use over hundreds of years. Each unit evolved for a specific purpose and was intimately related to the job in hand.

Then along comes this madman and changes everything and throws away all these units. For what? The metric system was implemented for one reason only - it was because Napoleon had 'short man's disease'. He had to change things, simply to show his power. (Which is also why he made everyone drive on the wrong side of the road)

The metric system is not really a system of units at all. It is really a system of 'Non Units'. You can't choose different units for different jobs to make the figures more convenient, because there are really no different units to change to. The millimeter is different from the meter 'only' in the position of the decimal point.

The system is so useless that even the French (who contrived the mess) don't know what it means. I bought a bottle of wine in France and there cast into the bottle was the size 100 CL. What ^$#&^%# geniuses they are, 'this bottle contains one hundred hundredths of a liter' DUH!

You can't change from working in, say, pounds per square inch to tons per square inch, to make the numbers smaller and easier to work with because 'every' change in the Metric System gives you the 'same number' with just the decimal point moved one way or another. Your whole concept of 'units' is GONE, VANISHED, DOESN'T EXIST.

Also it discourages the use of fractions to the extent that people who use the metic system eventually become incapable of dividing by 3 (let's not even think about surds).

Bert.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: MMario
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 05:10 PM

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Naemanson
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 07:02 PM

Bert, I'm just guessing here, but I think... tell me if I'm wrong... but I get the distinct impression that the metric system is not quite your favorite method of measurement.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Bert
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 07:22 PM

Yer right on there Naemanson.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Rollo
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 06:27 PM

Someone above said we germans can't cook pasta?

Yep... so it is...

But we don't have to. We got potatoes. Good to everything, and goulash served with potatoes is the best way, beeing tasty and filling the stomach. Who be filled up after having goulash with white bread?

But you can leave the goulash away, if you want. It's okay.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 10:59 PM

ROTFL

Naemanson - "Frendch" is certainly just a typing error but what a nice one ... "Megxican" ...

bert - They'll call me a traitor but recently I read on a bottle "1l - 1000ml". No joke, that joke.

Don't listen to Rollo - he's joking. About germans. Believe me: He who provides enough goulash and enough white bread WILL be filled up to any extent ever desired.

If you ever think of doping goulash with impurities don't think of strange mixtures of flour and water (might also apply to bread, I know, but I'm thinking of the compact kind). Try e.g. frankfurters or hot dogs (is there a difference?). You know you just can't get the sauce sticky enough to keep some from being left when you enjoyed the meat out of it. It's a really considerable replacement for ketchup! Not for small children, they like it sweet, but once you have reached an age to enjoy HOT things...

:o)

Joerg

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Escamillo
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:09 AM

Bert, the metric system may be arbitrary, but it comes to be easier when you have to calculate dimensions. For example, what's the surface in square inches of a circle of 4 1/2 " 3/64" in diameter ? (However I would not call stupid any system)

Un abrazo - Andrés (a metric brain)

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Fedele
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 04:46 AM

I'll just wait another couple of months then I'll try that recipe.
Naemson: Of course, I was speaking about that bad use to "americanize" everything.

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: Bert
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 11:51 AM

You're right about the fractions of an inch Andres, Any system of fractions that uses restricted denominators is limited. However there was no need to tie the use of decimal fraction to the units. Decimal fractions are very useful and can still be used with any system of units. There is nothing wrong with using decimal fractions of an inch, engineers do it all the time. But the metric system removes all the units - everything (linear) is related to the 'metre' and a useful fraction of an inch becomes cumbersome when expresses as a fraction of a meter. The same logic applies to feet and yards and miles etc..

For example a furlong is a convenient fraction of a mile, that's why it was used for hundreds of years. There is no such convenient fraction of a kilometre.

Bert,

Subject: RE: Tell me how to cook real Goulash!
From: GUEST,Joerg
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 10:00 PM

It's really very interesting to me - what you are talking about here is not the metric system itself but its convention of taking one unit and then modifying it by that T,G,M,k,h,d,c,m,u(micro),n,p,f,a stuff, which only means shifting of a decimal point and doesn't seem very sophisticated.

The same could have been done with - referring to the meter - yards. But there aren't milliyards or kiloyards or nanofeet or megainches - there are miles (=??.????? yards - don't know by heart, sorry) and feet (=.????? yards - still don't know, still not very sorry) and inches (=.0????? yards = .????? feet - it's now becoming as difficult to be sorry as it is to know all that by heart).

That was done with the intent to simplify things that only seem to be complicated but aren't. That's clever, not stupid. It is stupid to simplify things that are indeed complicated and things like these exist, yes, they do, but that doesn't apply for something as simple as telling some physical quantity as length - THAT'S(!) EASY(!). And I promise to at least try to support every effort of making easy things still easier - i.e. as easy as they are.

Of course - if there's a need to print "1l, 1000ml" on a bottle, I'm asking myself what the whole effort (=work) was good for. If the people are unable to understand how many millilitres a litre is - why abolish our good old german 'klafters'? But how many klafters per dozenseconds is one mph, bert? Still too simple for you?

The whole work was done to allow us to talk about beef, onions, bread, cream (?), Spaetzle (??) and whatever when we are talking about goulash - without having to compute the difference between an ounce and a deka. Let's be thankful that this work has already been done and talk about goulash (those who did that work maybe thought of bouillabaisse when they did it but they did it for things like these, believe me).

Good appetite.

Joerg