BS: British-American cultural differences 2

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: running.hare
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 06:20 PM

I've read though both threads & picked out a few points to answer from a young English point of veiw. ---------------------- "To serve this purpose they have to be carefully maintained. People prune them and interweave their branches to keep them strong and tight." <- this is called cut & lay, & yes I beleive the are grants availiable for maintaining heges in this manner. "While we're on the subject of horticultural practices: does anyone know, or care to know, what a coppice is? Or a pollarded oak? An espaliered apple tree? I'm full of arcane lore!" A coppice, usualy a hazel coppice, is a perticular type of managed woodland. The Hazel will be coppiced, cut down to almost ground level, on a 3 / 4 year rotation. Ths produces lots of strait thinish shafts of hazel which can be used to make hurdles etc.. & burned to make charcoal. to pollard an oak (or any other tree) is to remove its crown (top grouth) to promote healthy low down side shoots. an espaliered fruit tree, is tied in to a specialy shaped support so it grows to a flat fan shape. -------------------------- some1 said their friend made a peace sign in a bar to signifie2. when using 2 fingers in briten you have to be careful side of your hand is towards the person. Palm towards person is perfectly exceptible, back of hand towards person = rude gesture (which has it's roots in the british mastery of the long bow) -------------------------- explain A leval O level GCSE,

GCSE = General Certificate of Secondary Education. you take GCSE exams @ the age of 16, but start the course 's 2 yrs prior. before GCSE's where introdused @ 16 you'd either sit O~levels cGCE (General certificate of Education) if you wheren't up 2 O~levels.

A~levels are the main thing studied by 6th form students (16~18) & people whould traditionaly sit 3 / 4 A~levels. (the A stands for Advanced) but now they've changed it all & nobody understands the new AS & A2 system!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------

"How common are porches on homes in the UK? I love porches...and some of the old homes in the States where they wrap around two sides of the house...WOW! " porch V verander. we keep our coats etc in the porch. It can also refer to a small roof over the frount door to keep off the rain while you find what you did with your keys. a large covered area atached to the out side of the house etc whould generaly be called a Verander. ---------------------- "The first season or two of "Red Dwarf" seemed more cerebral to me than subsequent seasons. When the show became popular in the U.S., it seemed like they jazzed it up with flashier colors and more explosions, which is pretty much what I would expect if they wanted to market to the majority of people in the U.S. " no they just had a bit of money to put in to it when it became a sucsess, killed the show a bit ;) ----------------- "The kids are supposed to use the money to buy fireworks, which they then stuff into the guy." 1) It is an offence to sell fireworks to anyone under the age of 16 (may have increased to 18 reasently) 2) no1 in there right mind whould throw firworks on to a bonfire! especialy stuffed in the guy! (although I'm told when my dad was a kid a carefully stuffed guy was sucure to the top of a bonfire B4 it was lit.) Nowa days the bonfire & the fire-works are kept distinktly seperate, & no1 except the one adult in charge of the fireworks goes NE where near the lighting area. --------------------- I apologise for my awful speeling ;)

~ Lizabee.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 12:41 PM

This discussion will be continued at BS: British-American cultural differences 3.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:34 AM

Hello, Can some body make a part two please(It is hard for me to read long threads).thanks.john

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:21 AM

Allie Kiwi: A stick of butter is one quarter pound.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Maryrrf
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 11:02 AM

We once had some guests in from New Zealand here in Richmond. They were staying in a very upscale hotel and would drink at the bar/cocktail lounge every night. They couldn't figure out why the service got downright hostile - the cocktail waitress slammed the glasses down on their table, the bartender glared at them and they were made to feel very unwelcome. The problem was they weren't tipping. You're supposed to tip pretty generously in bars and cocktail lounges (nice looking cocktail waitresses usually earn pretty good money!).

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 06:26 AM

Allie kiwi, blame Napoleon for the driving on the wrong side of the road thing. For some reason he decided to dispense with centuries old tradition, and the Americans followed suit. Dawn of a brand new world and all that. At least the Americans had and still have the sense to resist metrication.

And don't you think the Americam way of spelling "honor" , "color" etc is much closer to the classical roots of these words than the Briitish way is?

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,allie kiwi
Date: 19 Sep 01 - 03:27 AM

This thread is hilarious! It is interesting to see similarities and differences - paricularly as I am from New Zealand and standing off at a distance.

It seems to me that New Zeland is even more british than Australia is, who have a few more american tendencies than us. (eg pronunciation like 'dance' - and dont get me onto how they say 'six')

In NZ we have a Guy Fawkes celebration, which to me has never really made sense, particularly if one is a Roman Catholic.

Things that have always interested me about american things are:

a) what is a stick of butter? how much does it weigh?

b) why do you drive on the right side of the road? (did you all throw the tea off the boats into Boston Harbour and say 'Guys, from now we're being non conformist and driving our carts and carriages on the other side of the road!'?)

c) why did the letters 'u' and 'h' become such parah's in spelling? (eg in colour and yoghurt)

Allie who is neither a bird nor a green furry piece of fruit

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 10:01 PM

Vegetable marrow :
The plant species Cucurbita pepo, which produces long, cylindrical fruits. These are usually green but may also be yellow, white, or striped. Like their relatives melons and cucumbers, they are climbing or trailing annuals, with large, prickly leaves and stems. In North America these fruits are known as summer squashes, and include the American pumpkin. They originated in tropical America and are now grown all over the world as a vegetable. Other varieties of C. pepo include ornamental gourds, and those with fruit used when young as courgettes, which are also known as zucchini.

Trifle is a confection of layers of cake alternating with whipped cream and fruit, topped with custard. There are many different recipes, I seem to remember my mother incorporated jelly (=US Jello) into her trifle.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: marymarymary
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 09:37 PM

Ickle Dorritt: Sorry, no idea what a "trifle" is... is it something to eat? It seems like most of the semantic differences are food-related.

Something I always wondered about is this: what is a "vegetable marrow"? In Agatha Christie books, Poirot was always talking about retiring to raise them, and I never knew what they were. I found a picture of one on a webpage, and it looked like a zucchini to me, but someone in this thread said that in the UK zucchinis are called "courgettes", so is a vegetable marrow actually something else? Do we have them in the US by some other name?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Lyle
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 08:33 PM

John Bond does a funny poem called "Toast." In it, he refers to "up toast." What is that?????

Lyle

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 08:16 PM

Ebbie, the factually incorrect part of your post was in the first line, where you stated that Thanksgiving Day was the third Thursday of November.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 04:24 PM

Thanks marymarymary.What about the trifle?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: marymarymary
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 01:43 PM

Ickle Dorritt: In the states that require pre-marriage blood tests (I'm not sure that all of them do) they are testing for diseases or traits that would affect potential offspring of the couple (sickle cell trait in either, or negative blood type, syphilis, or rubella in the mother). In some states, such as Indiana, the premarital blood test is only required of women who are of childbearing age. I guess it's done on the principle that many people will wait until marriage to start a family, and that if there is a reason why you and your future spouse should be cautious about having children, it's best to know that beforehand so that it can be treated or special precautions can be taken. What's actually tested for varies from state to state. The only thing that Indiana tests for is Rubella.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 12:19 PM

Murray, which part of what I said is incorrect?

Incidentally, some of the information given on that link is incorrect. It says: "Over the next seventy-five years, Presidents followed Lincoln's precedent, annually declaring a national Thanksgiving Day. Then, in 1941, Congress permanently established the last Thursday of each November as a national holiday."

In 1941, under President Roosevelt, Congress established the last Thursday of November as Thanksgiving Day. I think it lasted two years, before they (we) went back to celebrating it the fourth Thursday of the month.

Check out this year.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 11:46 AM

For those who aren't familiar with American Thanksgiving: There are certain foods traditionally associated with it: roast whole turkey stuffed with a bread-based stuffing (recipes vary), cranberry sauce, sweet potatoes (yams), and pumpkin pie. Any of these things might be eaten at other times, too, especially at Christmas, though some people favor ham at Christmas. There would probably other dishes, too.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 11:10 AM

Thanks Ebbie & Murray.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 10:58 AM

Being from Canada, Living in the Georgia USA, having many English friend. I can Favor the Colourful expressions on theis thread, S'all goood...Y'all

Canada's Thanksgiving is the second Monday in October. Celebrated in much the same way as In the USA. It is not as big a deal in Canada for a number of reasons. We don't go in for the whole Pilgrim/Indian thing. So we have fewer traditions. In the US, because the holiday is a Thursday closer to Christmas you tend to get 4 day weekends and family reunions. In Canada there is no holiday between Halloween and Christmas so the Christmas decorations go up in the malls very early in November.

Bon Fire night (Guy Fawlkes We didn't have an effigy or collect for Guy I think we were celebrating that he almost got away with it.) was a very big holiday in Newfoundland when I was growing up and for generations before. Most of the pranks occured on Nov.5 same as the fires except for the tradition of "Bucking" materials to burn. Bucking basically means stealing. But not stealing something of great value. One would buck apples from someone's tree or buck worn out tires or old barrels from a backyard or shed.

There would be great rivalries between the boys from different parts of town to see who made the greatest fire. Most of the bucking was from each other.

Here is Georgia I have a number of English friend's who miss "proper biscuits". I would not dare pat them on the fanny. Another froend regularly had Popadoms and curry powder flown in so that he could have a "proper English Curry"

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 10:58 AM

Being from Canada, Living in the Georgia USA, having many English friend. I can Favor the Colourful expressions on theis thread, S'all goood...Y'all

Canada's Thanksgiving is the second Monday in October. Celebrated in much the same way as In the USA. It is not as big a deal in Canada for a number of reasons. We don't go in for the whole Pilgrim/Indian thing. So we have fewer traditions. In the US, because the holiday is a Thursday closer to Christmas you tend to get 4 day weekends and family reunions. In Canada there is no holiday between Halloween and Christmas so the Christmas decorations go up in the malls very early in November.

Bon Fire night (Guy Fawlkes We didn't have an effigy or collect for Guy I think we were celebrating that he almost got away with it.) was a very big holiday in Newfoundland when I was growing up and for generations before. Most of the pranks occured on Nov.5 same as the fires except for the tradition of "Bucking" materials to burn. Bucking basically means stealing. But not stealing something of great value. One would buck apples from someone's tree or buck worn out tires or old barrels from a backyard or shed.

There would be great rivalries between the boys from different parts of town to see who made the greatest fire. Most of the bucking was from each other.

Here is Georgia I have a number of English friend's who miss "proper biscuits". I would not dare pat them on the fanny. Another froend regularly had Popadoms and curry powder flown in so that he couls have a "proper English Curry"

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 10:09 AM

Whilst we are on the subject -can you get a decent trifle in the U.S.? also, can you explain why you need a blood test before you get a marraige license - this isn't required in the U.K.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 09:36 AM

RE: cheerleaders and dance teams.

After watching a dance team perform at halftime in a local basketball game, Lars, the Swedish exchange student at our school said, "What is the purpose of this?"

Mary (NEVER a cheerleader, but the mother of one)

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,SarahC
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 08:43 AM

Mischief Night is November 4 - the day before Bonfire Night. It is a particular Yorkshire custom as far as I understand, because that was the night that the Gunpowder plotters were in Parliament laying the explosives. Fawkes and many of the crew were from Yorkshire.

Mischief Night means the kids go round wreaking havoc (lard on the doorsteps, eggs broken on the upstairs windows etc). At least on Halloween you are given the chance to buy the little blighters off).

Cheers

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: kendall
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 08:43 AM

Just for the record, Plymouth Rock is a myth. Oh, there is a rock alright, but it is nowhere near the waters edge.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Nemesis
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 08:18 AM

Someone may have posted this already - We do have baton-twirling in UK (My Uncle was President of the European Baton Twirling Asssociation) - altho it's more of a personal sport choice than a cultural one.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 06:37 AM

Uhhh, not really correct Ebbie. Click here for The Origin of Thanksgiving Day

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Ebbie
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 02:47 AM

Thanksgiving Day, the third Thursday of each November, is a national holiday in America; a holiday officially pronounced by the President each year.

The thanks (originally thanks for a bountiful harvest) go to whomever each person perceives as being the giver of all things good. Traditionally God, but I see no reason why one could not give thanks to the universe or Goddess, whatever.

Presents are not normally given but Hallmark, et al, has seized this day as another marketing opportunity and you will now find in the stores a wide array of Thanksgiving cards. (Stay tuned. Another ten years and it will have become another 6 week extravaganza.)

Over the years a certain sort of decoration has come to denote Thanksgiving. For instance, a turkey, whether live or on paper or a ceramic figure, is a symbol of Thanksgiving. So are cornucopias overflowing with harvested vegetables and fruits, as are paper tablecloths decorated with autumn colors.

I know Canada has a Thanksgiving Day too. How does it differ from the US version? Anybody?

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Sep 01 - 01:47 AM

A question for our US friends, What is Thanksgiving, who are you thanking & for what, Do you send cards/presents to friends? When is it? Cheers.john

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: JulieF
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:52 AM

Going back to roundabouts - has anyone else seen the one in the south of England - near Hemel Hemstead that is really 6 or 8 little roundabouts joined together. Sign for it looks like a molecule ( a bit like Benzene) and cars go in evry direction imaginable.

Julie

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: sledge
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:09 AM

From my visits to the US:

Catfish is great, cornbread is very good with beans and rice, Wisconsin bratwurst is fabulous especialy if preboiled in beer before grilling. Down side has been most US cheese I have found to be feeble tasting, the exception was Monterey Jack with Jalapeno peppers in it. My exposure to grits left a very unpleasant tatste.

As for UK food, I consider steak and Kidney pudding to be the food of the Gods.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Penny S.
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 05:39 AM

There are traditions of mischief around GF night, in some areas it's called Mischief Night, but until the US Halloween customs came back over the pond a few years this had fallen into abeyance, encouraged by the police. I haven't seen many guys lately. There is less readiness to accept children off by themselves, interacting with unknown people. I'll try and find my book on seasonal customs, but I haven't seen it for some time, and last time the perfect binding had unbound.

I heard a program last year about an incident in East Anglia, when, unnoticed because of the detonations in the street, someone blew up the new organ in the church, a crime never solved. The vicar, young scion of the local big house, had installed it to expel the choir and band (see Hardy) with their right of choosing the psalm, through which they could comment on local issues. The program pointed out that in this particular village there was a conflict between the villagers who believed the village to be open (not controlled by the big house) and the local dominant family, who didn't.

There was a widespread tradition of using GF as a time to express opinion which at other times would be risky - jobs could be lost. The attitude of authority to this has been negative, and there are continued attempts to end or control the survivals in such a way that they lose all resemblance to the original. In Sussex, those who do this are liable to end up in effigy as enemies of Bonfire. Bridgewater in Somerset, has a similar situation as the town no longer approves of bonfires on the main, now tarmac'd street.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~bonboy/bfl.htm

Bonfire

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:31 PM

No, it was London, alright, I know, because there was a tea kettle in my room.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 04:00 PM

If this had happened in the US, I would ask, were you watching "Saturday Night Live"? (A show that often does brilliant parodies of commercials.) This certainly sounds like the kind of thing they have done.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 03:46 PM

I am late again, but have a question, and this may be the place for it-- Just spent a few days in London, and, saw on the telly(what we would call a TV) a commercial for what appeared to be nappies for adults, however, they were not being promoted to persons with bladder control problems, the message was targetted at a younger audience, and promoted the idea that it was no longer necessary for healthy, normal people, to get out of bed when you needed to relieve themselves, thanks to this new product, they could simply let loose, then roll over and go back to sleep--

Did I hear right? Or did I misunderstand? Is there a general feeling over there that it is just too darn much trouble to get up at night and make a trip down the hall?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Bert
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:06 PM

troll, you'll have to send me a pair to see if I agree with you.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,PatJoe
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:00 PM

Has anyone in the US ever seen a tin of HP's All Day Breakfast?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: ol'troll
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 07:27 PM

This is to give notice that the finest kippers in the world come from the Isle of Man and preferably from Peel on the Islands west coast. This is simple truth and I will brook no argument to the contrary.

The best are to be had in July when the herring are running so the kippers are fresh. There are Manxmen who only eat kippers at that time.

A couple of pairs with eggs and whole-meal bread and fresh-brewed tea is a breakfast that a king would envy.

But don't take my word for it. Go there and try them yourself.

troll

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 06:36 PM

OK, here's what I know about Guy Fawkes Day: Kids start preparing for it a week or so before the actual day. Usually a few preteen kids working together will first build a "guy" - a dummy made from old clothes stuffed with rags or crumpled newspaper. They usually put him in a wheelbarrow, or nowadays tie him to a plastic lawn chair, to make him easily portable. Usually on the Saturday before GF Day, they will set him up in a public place, anywhere there is a lot of foot traffic, and accost passersby with the words "A penny for the guy." (They don't go door to door, like American trick-or-treaters.) People are expected to give them a little money. (More than a penny, nowadays, I suspect.) The kids are supposed to use the money to buy fireworks, which they then stuff into the guy.

You will see signs posted around the neighborhood announcing that there will be a bonfire at such-and-such a place, sponsored by such-and-such an organization. That's because, in the interest of safety, it's a good idea to have this part supervised by adults. On the night of November 5, the kids bring their guys and throw them on the fire.

I haven't actually witnessed such a bonfire, but when I visited England shortly before Nov. 5, 1985, I saw several "guys."

I'm interested in hearing from Brits about their own experiences. Is Guy Fawkes Day, like American Halloween, also a time for pranks and minor vandalism? Americans often have fond memories of Halloween, because it is often their first experience of being outdoors at night in groups with no adults.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:05 PM

Just jumped onto this thread, after avoiding it for some time. Regarding "roundabouts," I think they are the same thing we in the northeastern United States (the half-dozen states collectively known as "New England") call "rotaries". It's basically a traffic circle to handle cars coming from several different intersecting roads. They are common in my part of the country, but people from other parts of the U.S. hate them. It doesn't help that the rules seem to change periodically -- so there is no common understanding about whether you're supposed to yield to the oncoming traffic, or to the traffic that was already in the rotary.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Burke
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:58 PM

Australian: bubbler = drinking fountain

Someone from around Milwaukee, Wisconsin must have been the importer or exporter of the first of these to Australia :-)

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:45 PM

Sorry Quincy, I was having a Pratchett moment there.
Although you did remind me of the difference in definitions between the US and UK of "Fanny." It's MUCH ruder in England.

Then there are the things that you just don't expect. The first time I went to England I wanted to try a crumpet. So I went to a bakery (near Boscombe Downs) and was told that they were out of season!

Crumpets got seasons???

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: celticblues5
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:00 PM

Jim

OK, I'll go for it - what DO they to for GF day these days? - Different from the classic literary scenes of bonfires & effigies?

The electric shower thing was interesting - lately there have been little blurbs about this great new product - a heating coil that heats water just before using, as an alternative to big ol' water heaters - touted as an energy-saving device! lol - as they say, nothing new under the sun.....

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Quincy
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 09:34 AM

No Rabbit!!!! Bob's your uncle and Fanny's your aunt!!!!!!

Yvonne

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 08:52 AM

But surely Bjorn Stronginthearm is my uncle.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 08:40 PM

Bob's your uncle. The Definition.

B.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Roo
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 08:26 PM

Here you go Gary T - Strine at it's best. (Strine is how Australians are supposed to pronounce the word, "Australian" and so it means our distinct Australian language) You are right that ochre is an earthy colour, but an "ocher" (sometimes written okker; pron: okka) = an uncultivated Australian male arvo = afternoon footie = football chook = chicken (chook raffles are popular in footie clubs) mozzie = mosquito barbie = bar-b-que yobbo = similar to ocker ute = open backed van bludger = someone who bludges to bludge = do no work or borrow without the intention of paying back bubbler = drinking fountain

There are thousands of others. If you are interested there's a very good site which has a lot of Australian slang definitions: http://www.apex.net.au/~me/indexas.html

Bob's your uncle: Here in Oz we use it to mean "and that's that" or "hey presto" at the end of an explanation as to why or how something works or happens.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Crazy Eddie
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 06:00 AM

I've been told that John Cleese [of Fawlty Toweres & Monty Python fame] was once asked on American radio, what he saw as the main differences between English &Americans His reply (so the story goes) was: #1 We speak English, you don't #2 When we hold a world series, we invite other countries to actually take part. & #3 When you meet our Head of State, you are expected to go down on ONE knee!

Has anyone mentioned that chips are really crisps, whereas fries are chips?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Penny S.
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 05:35 AM

We do eat pancakes at other times as well, but Shrove Tuesday is essential. Try a search on Pancake Day or Olney, where they have races tossing pancakes - I don't know if anything is there.

On the other hand, I do know there are a number of Bonfire sites, or try fireworks for links to all that is left of a fine old tradition of sending up authority rotten. My feeling is that to allow a tradition of rebellious behaviour while appearing to condemn it and trying to ban it is a very good way of keeping dissent under control.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 11:57 PM

I'm a children's librarian (in Boston, Massachusetts), so I have seen a lot of the UK/US variations in children's books. Mostly they are dependent on who published first, and whether or not the other publisher is interested in taking the time and effort to change the words or spelling for the "home" edition. With Harry Potter, the concern _was_ that US children wouldn't know what a philosopher's stone was, and also that they wouldn't touch the book without something more recognizable in the title. Foolish mortals.

I've been reading British mysteries and books, and watching Dr. Who, and various sitcoms for years, so very little of the vocabulary baffles me. And the children I know who have heard about the controversy think it's nonsense. As one of my young patrons said. "If I can figure out what Quidditch is, I can figure out what a lorry is too."

One of the differences I noticed is that the UK TV-movie tie-ins are better than the US versions. I still have a lovely fat book called "The Further Adventures of Oliver Twist" from one trip across the pond. And I have both the US and UK editions of a Six Million Dollar Man book. (The one with Bigfoot.) There are twice as many words in the first chapter of the UK edition. Longer ones too.

Yikes!

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Rana
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 11:46 PM

Jim,

The pancakes we had on pancake day (or Shrove Tuesday) are not like N. American pancakes but more like a crepe. Instead of a filling we had sugar and lemon coated and then they were rolled up.

Rana

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Gary T
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 10:32 PM

Thanks, Brendy, that does help. Over here one more commonly hears "chunks", meaning essentially the same as bits. In particular, soups or sauces might be called chunky, especially so if the pieces are rather large.

Okay, Roo, I'll take you up on some translations. I've heard of barbie=barbecue. I only know ocher as a color or perhaps type of earth of that color (pronounced OH-cur). I bet that's not it, huh? Can't say I've heard of any of your other examples.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 09:36 PM

Shaw

Spaw

rhymes huh?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Cobble
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 09:24 PM

Who was it who said " we are divided by a common language"?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Roo
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 08:45 PM

What a mixed up lot we Aussies are! I have been following this thread with fascination. It seems we are more British than American but "Americanisms" have a strong hold here too. Then of course we do have our own Strine words which surface when you least expect them to! eg. ocher - arvo - chook - mozzie - barbie - yobbo - ute - bludger etc etc (how embarassing! - if you need a translation of Aussie English, let me know)

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Brendy
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 05:04 PM

Yo there Gary T.

I was hoping that one of our English Midlands contingent would have jumped in to clarify the 'bits' bit.

I used to share a house on the west of Ireland with a lad from close to Coventry; that place where all the BBC's World Service transmitters are (The name escapes me at the minute).
I was making chicken soup one evening, after we had killed one of the cocks, and had added chopped onion, pieces of chicken, carrots, etc.
As I served up my culinary masterpiece, yer man says to me, "Oh, it's got bits in.....I like bits."

He was referring to the pieces of chicken, onion, etc, and was using 'bits' as the collective noun.
'Bits', as far as I know, can be used to describe the contents of any liquid that has pieces of something floating, or submerged in it - recognisable or not.

I hope this helps.

B.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Jim Dixon
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 03:13 PM

celticblues5: Sure, you know who Guy Fawkes was, but do you know how they celebrate Guy Fawkes Day in Britain today?

An electric shower is an electric water heater that does not contain a storage tank. It is a plastic-covered box mounted on the wall above the bathtub. You turn it on when you start to take a shower. Cold water flows into it and is heated right before it flows out though the nozzle. You control the temperature with a dial. Some also contain a pump to increase pressure. It saves energy by heating only as much water as you need, right when and where you need it. As far as I know, every British home has one. Americans find it a little scary to be touching a device that carries 230 volts or so while standing in the shower, but apparently they are well insulated and quite safe. (American showers are always connected to the central water heater, which is always on.)

McGrath of Harlow: My reason for mentioning bank holidays was as follows: American holidays are always meant, in theory at least, to commemorate something, and they always have some sort of ritual or tradition associated with them. Maybe the average American doesn't give a rip whether the Italian-American Association places a wreath on a statue of Christopher Columbus on Columbus Day, or whether some high-school student won a prize for the best recitation of the "I Have a Dream" speech on Martin Luther King Day, but those things happen, and are duly reported in the news media. The British attitude seems to be different: we don't need to commemorate anything; we just want to have a day off; so let's close the banks and call it a bank holiday. Thus I think it is a real cultural difference (although you might think it a trivial one) and not just a difference in terminology.

Penny S.: I was told that Brits eat pancakes only on Shrove Tuesday (Mardi Gras). Is that right? And do they eat them for breakfast, or what? Americans have several things they sometimes eat for breakfast with syrup: pancakes, waffles, and French toast. Maple syrup is the best, made from the sap of real maple trees, but cheaper substitutes are more common.

Marymac90: Christmas number one, as I understand, is whatever record (or nowadays, CD) happens to be number one on the pop charts at Christmas. It's a big deal because apparently a lot of Brits buy records as gifts or to play at Christmas parties, so more records are sold right before Christmas than any other time. Bookies take bets on what song will be Christmas number one. And Christmas number one is frequently a "novelty" or comedy record. Benny Hill once made it with his recording of "Ernie."

MMario: While the majority of American bars don't offer free munchies, some do. I know two that always have fresh popcorn available, and there used to be some around here that had salted-in-the-shell peanuts (they encouraged customers to throw the shells on the floor), but I think they gave that up when peanuts became too expensive. Free munchies tend to be salty, so they encourage you to drink more.

Need I mention that, in America, popcorn is served with salt and sometimes butter (or fake butter) but not sugar?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 01:32 PM

Like Penny said, we have had a number of these discussions before and I remember getting in trouble for suggesting that I'd have a hard time seeing a 6'2" 250 pound redneck asking for a plates of scones and gravy. And if you give that ol' boy what you call a biscuit when he asks for biscuits and redeye, let me get outta' the way before the ass-kickin' begins.

Twisting wrenches for a living on a lot of English cars made me appreciate early on the ability to translate. I used to ride BSA's and Triumphs in the 60's and loved the manuals: "Turn on the main petrol cock and tickle the carbuerettors." Was this for real? The fuel shutoff didn't resemble a cock of any sort and the carbs never laughed.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Penny S.(minus cookie)
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 01:18 PM

On biscuits and bubble and squeak we have had discussion before - try a search.

I read that Rowling was told that American children would not understand the reference to the Philosopher's Stone - not many of my 8 yr old addicts would have done, either.

Can anyone tell me why Diana Wynne Jones' books, by a British author, set in Britain, often have not only US spelling but vocabulary - sidewalk, fender, tire, trunk etc, in British editions, while American authors such as Judy Blume and Betsy Byars are available in UK English? One even had the internationally accepted spelling aluminium, which is not used in science journals. We have to write sulfur and do, but aluminum still gets used the other way round.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 19 Aug 00 - 02:45 AM

What does "Bob's your uncle" mean? Someone told me this before, but I forgot. == Johnny in OKC

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Burke
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 09:18 AM

An American might find dunking a hard cookie/biscuit in tea a strange idea, but every child knows about dunking them in milk. Studies show that milk is the best for such purposes./a>

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 08:55 AM

I'm with youse on the roundabout thing. Having spent 2 months working in Chicago earlier this year, we encountered only 1 roundabout near where we were living, cleverly named a "turning circle". No one seemed to know how to use it at all - they'd just fly on round it without giving way to other road users. In the end we gave up trying and just took the first chance to get onto the damn thing.
Also, sarcasm. Most people we met didn't get the Norn Ireland black and slagging sense of humour, or any of our "aye, yer ma" jokes.
Bacon. It's different.
Beer. What's going on there? You have to drink gallons of the stuff for it to have any effect. Thanks be that it's cheap!
I praise the coffee though!

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Rana
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 08:04 AM

Lox,

Just a bi'a milk and a couple of bickies is fine with my kipper!

Rana

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Gary T
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 07:26 AM

Hey, Brendy, like those bits? Do you not care so much for the kibbles? (BG)

(Kibbles & Bits is brand/variety of cat food over here. If I remember right it's actually something like "Brand X cat food with kibbles and bits". The kibbles and bits are little morsels of whatever that are supposed to be very appealing to the cats. I had never heard the word "kibble" before, and suspect they made it up.)

Okay, I give up. What, in this context, is a bit?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 06:21 AM

...and,Lox,ower kid, a bison is a buffalo, except in Birmingham where we wash our face in it.
Tara, each
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: dwditty
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 06:12 AM

You talk funny. We don't. *BG*

dw

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Bagpuss
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 05:39 AM

I just had a big row with an american over biscuits / cookies! She complained that our "cookies" are hard and I replied that not only do they use the wrong name, but they have the wrong recipe too. And she certainly didn't understand the concept of dunking them in your tea.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Brendy
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 01:26 AM

Or some bits.

I like bits, I do

B.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Lox
Date: 18 Aug 00 - 12:33 AM

A kipper tie is a wide lurid necktie, unless you come from Birmingham, in which case just add a little milk and sugar

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: MarkS
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 11:24 PM

Hi McGrath
When you asked about grits I was reminded of the story about Louis Armstrong on a European tour. He was asked by the King of Somewhere
"Sachmo, what exactly are the blues"
To which Louis replied
"King, if you have to ask you will never know."
MarkS

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 08:57 PM

My observation of the differences in titles is that it looks (from the examples given), like publishers use more dynamic sounding titles for the U.S. market than they do for the British market.

This is in keeping with the differences that I see in movies and television programs. The first season or two of "Red Dwarf" seemed more cerebral to me than subsequent seasons. When the show became popular in the U.S., it seemed like they jazzed it up with flashier colors and more explosions, which is pretty much what I would expect if they wanted to market to the majority of people in the U.S.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 06:20 PM

People often call moving staircases escalators in England. In fact they probably use the term more often, wgichnis a pity, because "moving staircases" is a magic term

Talking about different levels - I take it people in the States are aware that the first storey in England and Ireland etc is what the Americans (I understand) refer to as the second storey, with the American first storey being called the ground floor. That must get highly confusing at times. Scope for all kinds of entertaining travellers tales...

And I can never work out weights in American English - I mean, when they say someone weighs 140 pounds, instead of ten stone. Well I can do it for 140 pounds, but I never learnt my 14 times table so I'm all at sea with other weights like 200 pounds or 180 etc.

Am I right in assuming Australians use pounds and stones? Apart from wimps who go in for kilos.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Burke
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 06:17 PM

Book tiles are changed between US & UK editions for marketing purposes. James Herriot's books had entirely different tiles. Due to many of the language issues mentioned in this thread & spelling differences some books do have different US & UK editions. I think it's mostly in popular works. It would be interensing to compare books where different English & American editions are noted.

Copyrights in one country are recognized in others that conform with the international copyright conventions. This has been the case since sometime in the last 50 years so the copyright issue referred to above used to apply, but so far as I know, no longer.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: celticblues5
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 05:02 PM

But the explanations of grits have left out the salient point - aside from being flavorless, one is apt to bite down on little gritty bits - hence the name. (People try to add flavor to 'em by mixing in butter, etc.) I politely tasted them in Texas and I politely tasted them in New Orleans and they were pretty much the same - don't plan to again!

Thanks for the explanation about the term "corn" - love the "Corn Rigs" song, but it did always sound a bit odd to think of corn growing in Scotland.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: cleod
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 04:18 PM

kendall, while you've got that maine lingo book, what does 'ayuh' mean? I always come across that in Stephen King's books.

Also, not being from America or England myself, it's fascinating to see what you guys think is different about each other's side of the pond. I used to read both American books and stuff by Enid Blyton, so I'm pretty much familiar with most of the terms here, it's just that I usually have problems with the food names... I mean, "spotted dick"? "bubble and squeak"? "skilly and duff"? -- huh?

And no one's wondered about the "lift = elevator" yet. :) what do you Brits call the escalator, then?

P.S. On a side note, my uncle immigrated to Australia many years back...he had a little problem with his name, as his full name was William, and he told his co-workers to call him, "Willy" ~!

cleod way off in Southeast Asia

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:49 PM

Gary T.

Agreed - it's Philosopher's in UK (and Canada) but changed to Sorceror's in the US. I've no idea unless it is for reasons Sophoclese stated.

Rana

(Also, couldn't understand for a bit why I got quizzical looks from a Vancouver house mate when I asked them to pass my jumper (sweater). Didn't know it was a dress over here.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: MMario
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 02:54 PM

"corn" until the advent of the american maize was whatever was the most prevalent grain in an area.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 02:40 PM

Grits are made from a type of white corn called hominy, ground up and fried in butter, and served at breakfast.

I understand "corn" in Britain can mean wheat, as in the song Corn Rigs are Bonnie. Check me on this ...

== Johnny in Oklahoma City

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jacob B
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 02:34 PM

When my Morris team toured in England, we discovered that it's the words that mean different things in the two countries that get you in trouble ...

The team's regalia includes black knee-britches. In the U.S., the term for knee-britches is knickers (shortened from Knickerbockers sometime in the first half of the twentieth century.) When a team member referred to his knickers, he discovered that the word means something different in Britain.

A similar thing happened to a college friend of mine who went to teach in Australia. The rubber-soled shoes that are called plimsoles in Britain and Australia are called sneakers in the U.S., and her students were only allowed to wear them in gym class. When she saw them come back from gym still wearing their rubber-soled shoes, she told them to take off their sneakers, all they did was stare at her and giggle. The only way they could make sense out of "take off your sneakers" was to interpret it as an instruction to take off their knickers, which they weren't about to do!

Jacob

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: hesperis
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:38 PM

"Remember, remember,
the Fifth of November
Gunpowder, Treason, and Plot!
I see no reason
why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot!"

I think I read that in a story by Josephine Tey, but it's at least 6 years since I read it last. It stuck in my head from the first time I read it, as I was rather a misfit then. I still notice when it's Guy Fawkes Day, although I've never actually celebrated it. (I'm a closet pyro, though. Mwaahaahaahaa!)
My Step-dad's a veery eccentric (to us) Englishman, who migrated to Canada a while back.
Fortunately, he brought a good many books over. Anybody else read the Swallows & Amazons series by Arthur Ransome? It was one of my absolute favorites as I was growing up.

TTFN,
hesperis

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Colwyn Dane
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 01:06 PM

G'day,

On the theme of name changes, some movie titles have also been changed on the trans-atlantic journey westwards:

"The Chiltern Hundreds" to "The Amazing Mr Beecham"

"The Card" to "The Promoter"

"Fanny By Gaslight" to "Man Of Evil"

"The Rake's Progress" to "Notorious Gentleman"

"Tomorrow We Live" to "At Dawn We Die" - most odd.

There are many examples of title changing the US, or British, product for overseas customers
and I'm sure the reason is to promote business if not understanding.

We call different things by the same name, and the same thing by different names.
-G.

Toodle-pip.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: sophocleese
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 11:06 AM

Books can suffer name changes and changes in the cover design between the US and Britain because of copyright issues not philosophical ones. For some titles and companies the US and the British copies come out at similar times but one company is supposed to get the revenue from the British market and a different company or branch of the same company is supposed to get the revenue from the US market. Canada has an advantage here as often, but not always, it can get either copy.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 10:34 AM

Hence "Brill-O".

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: MMario
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 10:31 AM

it also means "shiny"

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 10:14 AM

I still find it hard to believe that Americans have no idea what a snog is! And I keep getting bizarre results whenever I mention crumpets. I've also found the "brill" thing funny too. I've never really though before of the word brilliant meaning good. Always used it like "smart."

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: MMario
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 10:03 AM

mincemeat - which is now made mainly with fruit USED to be made with meat, and still is by some old recipes. And yes, it still tasted like the fruit version! I have had both types - heck, I have MADE both types; the difference wasn't so much in taste or texture as nutritional content. The meat version was MUCH higher in calories and protien

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Gary T
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 09:53 AM

You've gotten me curious, Rana, did they change the title of one of the books for the stateside market?

I remember the Philosopher's Stone being a concept of alchemy, a stone that would help in changing base metals (lead, etc.) into gold. It was sought for with the same fervor (and same results--never found) as the Holy Grail.

A "Sorceror's Stone" would just be a rock owned by a wizard--no particular meaning beyond the literal.

If I'm not mistaken in my understanding of the two phrases, it would seem rather, well, stupid to substitute one for the other.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Rana who SHOULD be working
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 09:46 AM

Don't know why this difference:

Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone

vs.

Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone

Rana

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 09:41 AM

Brits seem to have problems with the notion of "their" culture. See http://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/england.htm

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Gary T
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 09:36 AM

Nah, Gervase, they serve mediocre food (so I hear--never ate at one) brought to you by young ladies in short T-shirts and shorts (gotta show that midriff). It's the kind of place where waitresses are hired for their looks. My favorite aspect is their signs, which feature an owl. Owls are said to hoot (their call), and some species are called hoot owls. So the sign has the two O's in the word "Hooters" serving as the owl's eyes, instead of the obvious female parts that everyone knows are really being hinted at (I've never heard owls actually called hooters, but it's common slang for breasts, not as gentle as "boobs" but less raw than "tits"). I guess you could say that in a metaphorical sense they serve the concept of breast milk, largely partaken of by the male libido.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 09:28 AM

Hi Gervase.......I'm honored to think that if I say it, it must be smut. I think cousin Micca has a similar affliction so it may be genetic.

Hooter's is a chain that now advertizes a family thing as well, although they really started as just another fern bar with large breasted girls in tight t-shirts. Awhile back they got trounced in one of the sexual discrimination lawsuits by some guy who wanted to be a waiter. They started the family image thing after that.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 09:16 AM

"Mince pie is quite common here in Maine. It is made with either wild rabbit or venison." (Kendall) Now there lies an interesting intercultutral confusion.

The distinction we have is between mincemeat, which is made up of fruit and fat and stuff like that, and is very much a sweetmeat, without any "meat" at all (unless you count suet, which is the fat), and minced meat which is chopped up meat.

There's a lovely anecdote on a thread a few months back about a visitor to a foreign country (maybe Australia), who goes into a restarurant, and asks for the wrong kind of mince pie, the meaty one, to be served with custard, which is very tasty with the fruit type of mincemeat. Then when he gets served, after having to insist that this is what he wants, he has to eat it up, as the only way to avoid humiliation, while the incredulous waiter looks on, highly impresseed.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Gervase
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 07:10 AM

A chain of restaurants named after breasts? What a hoot! Do they serve kiddy food?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: kendall
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 07:05 AM

Mince pie is quite common here in Maine. It is made with either wild rabbit or venison. I have had it outside Maine but it is a poor imitation full of sour fruit and all.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 06:51 AM

Gervase, you are correct. We have a whole chain of restaurants named after them.

McGrath of Harlow, grits are a sort of thick gruel made of ground up corn.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: death by whisky
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 05:58 AM

Squash is what Americans call TANG.

Black pudding,made from pigs blood.

Dare I mention the SHHHH!(fanny).

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 05:49 AM

See grits thread. Or come to Bluewater, find Jerry's Home Store, and buy a £5 packet of Quaker Instant Grits. Or not, as I chose.

Our chippy doesn't batter the saveloys. They are a bit like hot dog sausages, aren't they?

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 05:45 AM

At school any kind of sweet/dessert would be referred to as being the pudding. Ice cream for example.

Saveloys are also sold in chippies (fish and chip shops) covered in batter and fried. But then so do all kind of things. Mars Bars in some places.

And could someone say what "grits" actually are in a culinary context?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Penny S.
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 05:24 AM

1. A kipper in a tin is not a proper kipper. These are traditionally bought in pairs. The best I know are from Loch Fyne, or from Craster in Northumberland. One of my Open University geology Summer Schools ended up at the smokehouse at Craster for students and staff to load up with them. You could tell the geologists on the train home! So could the cats.

2. Pantomime is a presentation in text and song of a traditional story, now from a narrower range than in the past. They are usually selected from Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Snow-White, Jack and the Beanstalk, Puss in Boots, Dick Whittington, Mother Goose & Aladdin. They include popular songs and others appropriate to the story, topical references, sometimes jokes inappropriate for a child audience, though less so recently, transformation scenes, messy scenes with clowns in kitchens, audience participation "Oh no he didn't", "Oh yes he did," "Look behind you", singing a silly song from a drop down sheet, dancers, a few variety acts, a Dame - think the Betty from Morris dancing rather than drag queen, the hero played by a girl in tights and long boots (less so now), the endless struggle between good and evil "Boo, Hiss", and actors sending themselves up something rotten with really hammy acting. Why do you think our actors are so good at villains? Magic.

3. More on squash. It's whole fruit, plus sugar (and colouring and preservative... No fizz. There are technical requirements as to what is described as squash or fruit drink. Not like Orangina. More like lemonade concentrate, but the lemon version is sweeter than that. Do you have lemon barley water? More like that.

4. Pudding - has a very wide definition. Savoury puddings, such as Yorkshire, Steak and Kidney, suet pudding as an accompaniment to lamb or mutton. Sweet puddings which are obviously the same sort of thing as steak and kidney - Sussex pond, marmalade, jam roly poly, spotted dick (and the real thing has been nowhere near fish oil!), bread based puddings such as Queeen of puddings, bread and butter pudding or bread pudding. All solid carbohydrate flour based dishes, cooked. There are cake mixture based puddings, custards (egg type), and gradual movement to the jelly, blancmange, cold type of dessert as mentioned above.

Penny (feeling hungry)

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Gervase
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 05:12 AM

Can someone enlighten me? I cam across 'Spaw using the word 'hooters', so it must be smutty. But what are hooters? I'll take a guess at breasts, but am I right?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 04:59 AM

Yes, Johnny, the last one I had said: "Help, I am a prisoner in a fortune cookie factory" (please send that joke an anniversary card, 40 years at least and still going strong!)
RtS

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 04:51 AM

We learned a lot from the Beatles. But what I need to know is whether they have Chinese fortune cookies in Britain. == Johnny

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: CarolC
Date: 17 Aug 00 - 03:35 AM

I have a can of Heinz spotted dick that I use to prop up books on my book shelf. (Friend of mine brought it back from England as a gift.) What I want to know is, why the fish oil in what appears to be a bread/puddingish desert-thing?

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:54 PM

A savaloy is a red coloured, small spiced sausage with a distinctive flavour. Absolutely nothing like it here in the States. It is sold fully cooked and usually eaten cold.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:49 PM

I think the "Britcom" thread mentiones above showed that a lot of us in the US are familiar now far more than we used to be. I get a kick out of ribbing my cross-pond brethren though about the crackers/cookies/biscuits/scones differences we share, but most of the things listed exist somewhere here now more than they used to, thanks to TV and the internet.

We're still probably the only family in this county who has Toad in the Hole on a regular basis though.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: celticblues5
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 06:38 PM

Just got done reading the first thread & had to laugh at the reference to so many American regional differences - especially when the Texans weighed in (and the person who mentioned mushy peas). When I moved from the Midwest to go to North Texas State, I made the mistake of asking the surly cafeteria worker for a serving of peas. She fixed me with a steely stare and asked, "ENGLISH peas?" (guess my Midwestern accent gave me away) Huh? What the hell are English peas? She meant "regular" green peas, of course, but to her "peas" meant black-eyed peas, something I had seen and probably would have eaten politely had they been put in front of me, but would never have crossed my mind to order DELIBERATELY. After a few months of always having to clarify my order, they finally got me conditioned to order it "correctly" the first time. lol

Yeah, grits - don't go there.

Responses to some of the comments on February's thread -

Blackvelvet - The differences in English regional speech are really striking to Americans. A few years ago, PBS had a series on the origins of the English language, and during the course of it they interviewed people in various parts of the country. It was interesting to listen to people who were technically English, but who lived in the north & who sounded, to the American ear, more like Scots. And I have a friend in Norfolk who used to do some reading for the BBC - she had to use a particular voice/accent instead of her normal one for them to use her!

Bert - what IS a savaloy? I've wondered that ever since seeing "Oliver!"

Jim - kippered herring is readily available in the Midwest - comes in a flat tin - King Oscar is the main brand I see around here - but it's not terribly smoke-flavored.

MMario - some bars started offering free munchies when they cracked down on drink discounts in order to try to stem over-imbibing. Just another come-on.

McGrath - yup, it's true how they torture cats - it's like removing the first section of human's fingers, & of course they can't defend themselves as well afterwards. Lots of people are lobbying against that.
Also - we do have gigantic signs that go on top of the cars being driven by student drivers, to warn one and all! Tee hee. Unfortunately, they are only on the driving school cars - wouldn't hurt to make 'em put the signs on their private cars as well. But the student drivers could probably get the ACLU to defend them against such personal insult.

White cheddar isn't a separate variety, as far as I understand - it just hasn't had artificial color added, as they have done to the yellow cheeses. Someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Steve - Somehow, we just can't work up much sympathy for those poor, blonde, Nordic women who are so grieviously discriminated against. I'll try to work on that character flaw. :-)

Forget who commented - I have seen a few roundabouts in the Midwest - there was at least one moderately-sized one in Kansas City, but they changed it and smoothed out the circle some years ago after a few too many accidents - and that was before cell phone popularity really took off. I'd shudder to imagine all the exec types trying to navigate the circle at a fair clip while yakking on the phone.

Metchosin - I agree fewer & more judiciously-placed f's would enhance conversation these days. They just lose their impact when they come out every other word. Where, oh where is the wit of Mencken & Bierce?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Bert
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:34 PM

Marymac! what are you doing posting to this thread? you should be on your way to Mudcat Radio by now.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Marymac90
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:33 PM

No Christmas Crackers, or Bon-Bons, no Christmas pudding, and mince pie is at the bottom of the list, as far as pies go. You could probably get one right on Christmas day, because many more are made by bakeries than are bought, whereas it's hard to get a pumpkin pie at the last minute. Apple is a perennial favorite pie. The British meaning of pudding, as an accompaniment to roast beef, is virtually unknown. Pudding means dessert-usually chocolate, vanilla, or butterscotch. Silly paper hats are possible on New Year's Eve, but less and less likely. What are Christmas pantos? What is Christmas number one? I know Europeans celebrate holidays like Christmas and Easter on more than one day, as in Easter Monday, which US'ers do not.

In 1978, a friend of mine from Britain came here with her two school aged children. One was known to have said "This is America! You can get anything you want!" However, they found it difficult to come by Marmite and Wheetabix-the latter are more common now.

The Brits say "pissed' when we'd say drunk. Sometimes I say "s__t-faced drunk", when I mean VERY inebriated. Then the Brits say "brassed off" (as in the movie about colliery bands), when US'ers would say pissed off.

Perhaps orange squash is something like orange crush, or perhaps like Orangina?

I know the Indian references like nan and chapatis. There are many Indian restaurants and groceries in university areas. These may be less well known than tacos and burritos, perhaps, especially in suburbs and working class neighborhoods.

Marymac

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:29 PM

The last train to Harrow and Wealdstone, does not sound too good....

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:19 PM

Bits of things you can eat in saucers on the bar - peanuts, cheese, biscuits, even small crustaceans - are quite common in pubs in England, at least on a Sunday morning.

I'm relieved about Christmas Puddings and Christmas Crackers.

Though these things tend to be identified as British-American differences, lots of them are common to other places as well as Britain, such as Ireland and Australia.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: MMario
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 05:05 PM

always had a timer on the hot water heater -- crop circles grew up with, marmalade of course comes in any citrus variety, it's my understanding salad cream is the equivilant of miracle whip, christmas crackers and christmas pudding are family traditions, what's wierd about lever door handles?, duvet stolen from the french, ploughman's lunch is common enough, grew up with wooden matches, paper lampshades are normal enough. Where do you get free munchies in bars?

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Penny S.
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 04:59 PM

On pancakes, the traditional accompaniment is lemon juice and sugar. These are thin pancakes, not as thin as French crepes, nor as big, about nine inches across. As one side is cooked, the pan is flipped to turn them by tossing(unless you're chicken, and use a tool). When the second side is cooked, the pancake is slid onto a plate, the juice and sugar sprinkled on and the pancake rolled up, and more juice and sugar put on.

We have a soft drink called squash, usually orange or lemon, and the name comes from the process, not the vegetable. Its a concentrate, and is diluted before drinking.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 04:55 PM

There's a distinction between the differences which mean thatsomething just isn't there, and the one where it's just that it's got a different name.

For example the USA may not have "bank holidays", but it has got public holidays like Christmas Day and Labor Day and so forth.

Knowing about those kind of name differences is interesting and can avoid confusion - but it's the differences which involve something just not being there which really give a window into the foreignness of cultures we think we know.

I mean, do people in the US really not pull Christmas Crackers (as opposed to calling them something differentlike Bon-Bons) and read out the jokes and put on silly paper hats? What can Christmas dinner be like? What about Christmas puddings? Mince pies?

(On the same lines I've met Americans who were appalled to realise that there really is no equivalent of Thanskgiving at the end of November over here - unless you're like me and your birthday is around that time.)

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Kim C
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 04:54 PM

I always thought the expression "pissed," meaning "drunk" across the pond was kinda funny. When I was there, I didn't see anyone put squash in a pop, but saw all manner of vegetation in Pimms & Soda.

Subject: RE: BS: British-American cultural differences 2
From: celticblues5
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 04:06 PM

Jim -
This is so interesting! I'll have to check out the first thread.
Just a couple of things on this posting - we DO have duvets here in the US - I think it's a relatively new term here, but the upscale dept. stores & catalogues now all use it.
I'll bet most of the catters know what Christmas crackers and the page 3 girl are - or at least a large portion of them, since what seems to have been a huge percent responded to the thread on the Britcoms.
Anyone in the Midwest knows from crop circles.
Have seen grapefruit marmalade here, and of course orange.
How could we have read any reasonable amount of Britlit/history without knowing Guy F?
Chappatis are Indian - not at all unknown here.
Yes! Please explain whatever doesn't get answered - particularly, what DO they put on their pancakes & - no kidding - squash in pop? eeeeeuuuuuuwwwwwww! (and, honey, i ain't no teen!) I know what wellies are, but what does green signify? Obviously, electric showers CAN'T be as dangerous as they sound *G*

Subject: British-American cultural differences 2
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 16 Aug 00 - 03:35 PM

Having just returned to the US from another vacation in England and Ireland, I return to one of my favorite topics (which was begun in this thread) to add some new observations:

BRITISH STUFF UNKNOWN IN AMERICA: Milk floats. Gyro accounts. Question time. Fruiterers. Duvets. Electric showers. Pelican crossings. Zebra crossings. Green wellies. Catteries. The Glaswegian kiss. Colliery bands. Onion bhajis. Balti. Nan. Chappati. Lime pickle. Twiglets. Joffa cakes. McVitie's. Christmas pantos. Christmas crackers. Christmas pudding. Christmas number one. Bank holidays. Timers on water heaters. Hover mowers. Teletext. Ploughman's lunch. Crop circles. "Songs of Praise." The page three girl. Lime marmalade. Grapefruit marmalade. Salad cream. Salads without dressing. Cream teas. Cream crackers. Guy Fawkes day/bonfire night. Packs containing 10 cigarettes (or any quantity other than 20).

AMERICAN STUFF UNKNOWN IN BRITAIN: Cheerleaders. Baton twirlers. High school marching bands. Parade floats. Thanksgiving. Pancakes with syrup. Trick-or-treating on Halloween.

SOME THINGS FAR MORE COMMON IN BRITAIN THAN IN AMERICA: Wardrobes. Lever door handles. Tool bags. Paper lampshades. Prime time soaps. Ghosts, or people who believe in them. Charity shops. Wooden matches. National newspapers. Orange marmalade.

SOME THINGS FAR MORE COMMON IN AMERICA THAN IN BRITAIN: Closets. Doorknobs. Tool boxes. Churchgoers. Free munchies in bars. Paper matches. Local newspapers. Salad dressing.

REMARK ALLEGEDLY MADE BY AN AMERICAN TEENAGER IN BRITAIN: "Eeewww! They put squash in their pop!"

I will attempt to explain any of the above topics if requested, but I want to give others a chance to comment first.