Lyr Req: Mrs Stein Don't Rent to Gypsies Any More

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Branwen23
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 04:14 PM

i'll second that.

And by the way, Brendy, I can only interpret your post as a completely unwarranted personal attack, both on my name and on my honor. Are you implying that I have no legitimate claim to Irish heritage...? 1, how would you know?, and 2, who cares?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: MythHunter
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 06:25 PM

Wow, all this from a simple lyrics request in a group that is suposedly about music.

Thank you for the info. I am sorry to have hurt anyone's feelings.

I will not be using or reading mudcat forums again. I am much more interested in music than in being told that I am a raciest. Or in watching a rather interesting disscussion go personal just because people dissagree.

Melinda

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 10:44 PM

Melinda: Things have certainly gotten a bit heated here, and if you have gone away, you won't see this post. But I hope you don't go away just because there is disagreement about whether or not lyrics to a song should be posted on the Mudcat. In the United States, there is not doubt about it in my mind. The should be posted. Everyone can then make up their own mind whether or not it is a song they would like to hear or perform. I'm confident if, after reading the lyrics, Mudcatters find it offensive, they won't perform it.

Larry, as a lawyer, I think you recognize the importanance of freedom of speech in the U. S. Censorship should not be tolerated in any form.

I do not know the song, and I accept the fact that many may find it offensive. It should, however, be posted (in my opinion) so that folks can see for themselves what all the flap is.

DougR

Subject: Lyr Add: THE TERROR TIME (Ewan MacColl)
From: CamiSu
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:54 AM

I must admit I'd not looked at this as the idea of "not renting to Gypsies" didn't appeal. However, daughter, Wavestar, told me I should. Those of us who have the unearned privilege of being the majority probably would do well to listen well to those of us who do not. I for one am in both categories but understand that truly I am privileged to be white and educated. I have heard of an article written years ago called the Unintentional Racism of Well-meaning Whites, which if anyone knows where it can be found, I would like to see.

I have been (astonishingly) beaten up for being the wrong color, and was so naive that someone had to tell me why. I have been ridiculed and ostracised for being friends with the "wrong people". Sorry I don't feel like changing. I really want a world where there is no prejudice, though I may not be contributing to it too well when I prejudge those who look and act like skinheads and white supremacists.

There are some really good books that poke holes in the myths that surround the travellers. Susan Cooper's "Dark is Rising" series comes to mind, and I always delight in Trina Schart Hymen's illustrations, particularly of fairy tales, where the characters are a marvelous mixture of colors and the Princess often has a lovely Rom look to her.

There is another quite haunting song that applies, also buy Ewan MacColl

The Terror Time (and sorry, I can only put in returns as the PermaThread that would have told me how to format this is gone...) Better yet, look in the DT!

THE TERROR TIME
(Ewan MacColl)

The heather will fade and the bracken will die
Streams will run cold and clear
And the small birds will be going,
And it's then you will be knowing
That the terror time is near.

Whaur will ye gan an' whaur will ye bide
Noo that the work's a' done
And the fairmer disnae need ye,
And the cooncils winnae heed ye
And the terror time is come?

The woods give no shelter and the trees they are bare
Snow is falling all around
And the children they are crying,
For the bed on which they're lying
Is frozen to the ground

When you need the warmth of your own human kind
You move near a town and then
The sight o' you's offending,
An' the police they soon are sending
An' you're on the road again.

Whaur will ye gan an' whaur will ye bide
Noo that the work's a' done
And the fairmer disnae need ye,
and the cooncils winnae heed ye
And the terror time is come?

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 29-Aug-02.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:00 AM

Melinda - not to worry, a small disagreement. I hope you stay around the Mudcat forum. We need open minded music lovers around here, even ones who occasionally disagree. I am sure that a translation of the messages above will remove any doubt about the seemingly personal attack. If I can find the lyrics I'll post them for you, and others can make up their own minds.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 01:04 AM

I think to get the full flavor, you need to hear it -- as mentioned somehwere miles above, the tune has a gypsy flavor, accompanied by stomping and whistling. It is a parody, not of bigotry, but of gypsy music. Shall we see if we can get Liza Carthy back here to see what her mother thinks of it?

Melinda, You have gotten several tips about recordings to track down. If you want to find the song, you can with info, from this discussion.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 06:06 AM

watch out for Wolfgang, who will be there to check your spelling and syntax at every turn

Brendy,
I'd rather not have a feud with you for I guess we both like more or less the same music and I even think our view on politics might be more similar than you seem to think. But I have not the slightest idea what has triggered the second part of your statement about me.
Yes, I do correct spelling sometimes when it is, e.g., in a name of a songwriter or similar instances and I do correct what I think are wrong statements of fact (whether I like the position or not). But syntax? I doubt that you are able to back up this part of your statement with even a single example. I'd make a fool out of myself if I tried to correct others' syntax for my own English syntax is full of errors typical for a German.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 07:03 AM

Dear friends:
To begin with, Malinda, if you are still about, don't be so quick to leave, for several reasons. First, being woken up to a situation wherein your actions may cause discomfort is not a personal attack. You are quite comfortable, I assume, as a member the majority community, and may not be used to the hostile environment of discrimination. We who have seen discrimination and have to deal with it develope a certain resiliance against such controversies and are not so quick to leave. Stick around and share a bit of wisdom with us, and we will all be the richer for it.
DougR, old friend, You are right, as a lawyer I am against censorship. However, most Americans forget that censorship is only wrong in the US when carried out by the government. We have a right and an obligation to be polite to each other and not create a hostile environment for minorities. In fact, though censorship per se is not allowable in the US, in a work place - if racist talk is NOT censored, the government takes action to censor that talk as a defense agaist a hostile environment. Now, here, this is not a work place, and I do not mean to give the impression that I believe we should not post racist songs. However, if we are doing so for scholarship and to understand folk culture, we should be careful how we praise those songs. For example, the song I am a good old rebel. I would say it has a great tune, but the words are distateful. I would be somewhat careful, as a matter of good taste to praise the words very highly (not much chnace of that). Good taste excersed by the people is not the censorship our government is not to wield - excuse the clumsy sentence.
Camisu, what can I say? Great song and I apreciate your comments... and MAG, magnificent comment.
Your pal as ever,
Larry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 07:12 AM

It's definitely not the worst idea to remind songs about travellers, gypsies,... in this thread instead of...ah, well. Here's my contribution to this theme of the thread:

Blue tar road

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Brendy
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 07:33 AM

And one way of getting the CD that features the song that Wolfgang links to.

B.
(Don't tempt me Wolfgang)*BG*

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Brendy
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 07:35 AM

A-hem!!!!

B.

Subject: Add: YELLOW ON THE BROOM (Adam McNaughtan)^^^
From: Gervase
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 12:41 PM

If a song causes offence, best not to sing it. Period.
Unless, of course, it manages to piss off right-wingers, bigots and the ignorant. If so, sing it and hope you can run faster than a redneck in a bed sheet...
For all sorts of reasons, I like the song from Cabaret, "Tomorrow Belongs to Me", but there is no way I would ever sing it with an audience, because many would find it horribly offensive for all sorts of proper and understandable reasons.
There is, though, one nice song the DT giving perhaps an over-romanticised view of Traveller life, written by Adam McNaughtan:

YELLOW ON THE BROOM

Well, I ken ye dinna like it, lass, tae winter here in toun
For the scaldies they all cry us, aye, and they try to put us doun;
And it's hard to raise three bairnies in a single flea-box room,
But I'll tak' ye on the road again when the yellow's on the broom.

cho: The yellow's on the broom, when the yellow's on the broom,
Oh, I'll tak' ye on the road again when the yellow's on the broom.
(Chorus repeats the last line of each verse)

Oh, the scaldies call us tinker dirt and they sconce our bairns in school,
But who cares what a scaldy says, for scaldy's but a fool.
They never hear the yorlin's song, nor see the flax in bloom,
For they're aye cooped up in houses when the yellow's on the broom.

Nae sales for pegs and baskets now, so just to stay alive
We've had tae work at scaldy jobs frae nine o'clock till five;
But we call nae man our master, and we own the world's aroon,
And we'll bid fareweel tae Brekin, when the yellow's on the broom.

I am weary for the springtime, when we'll tak' the road aince mair,
Tae the plantin' and the pearling, aye, and the berry fields of Blair,
There we'll meet wi' all our kinfolk, frae a' the country roun',
When the gang-aboot folk tak' tae the road, and the yellow's on the broom.^^^

...and on the Roma topic, anyone here read George Borrow?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Barbara
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:15 PM

However, this is a collecting place for songs, and if I had this one, I'd post it so we could see what was being discussed. Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to get the words.
I notice no one is protesting the Jewish stereotype in the song of Mrs. Stein as a rather naive knee-jerk liberal who hands over her home to a couple of strangers with no references and then goes incommunicado for 6 months.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: JedMarum
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:21 PM

great song, Gervase. I love this one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 07:25 PM

Oh, good point Babara.

DougR

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Brendy
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 08:38 PM

Indeed Barbara.

And you know what they say: Two wrongs don't make a right.

B.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:22 AM

Hmmm. I didn't read Barbara's message as being an advocate for that particular song, Brendy. It appears to me she is just stating a fact. es not so?

DougR

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Brendy
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:27 AM

I didn't read it either way, Doug.

However, Jews and Gypsies in the one song, and both stereo-typed; could have been written by a Nazi, for all we know.

B.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 01:46 PM

'Tis true. DougR

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 06:18 PM

I am quite happy to admit to being prejudiced against anything that sounds like racism directed at people who have been persecuted and are are still being persecuted. And this song from everything I have seen about it in this thread sounds like it fits into that category.

If it turns out that I'm mistaken, and that what sounded liked racism wasn't anything of the kind, I'm quite happy to revise my opinion. And I'd be very pleased to be able to do so.

And the same goes for the other prejudice I have to admit to, which is against any band that would give itself a name like The Blarney Brothers. But that is a minor point. But anything that gives comfort to people who hold prejudice against Travellers is not a minor issue.

Subject: Lyr Req: doesn't rent to gypsies
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Sep 00 - 09:04 PM

Well, I understand that the Blarney Brothers have a new CD out, and that it has "Mrs. Stein Doesn't Rent to Gypsies" on it. I certainly hope that somebody will post the lyrics to this song that has caused such controversy in this thread.
You know, I really don't think that a song should NOT be posted here, simply because it is offensive. I don't think we should have self-appointed Thought Police stomping around here, beating up on people for expressing ideas they consider offensive. Same thing goes with the "Folk Nazi" controversy. Maybe the term is considered offensive to some, and maybe it's in bad taste. That's not the point - the person who used the term meant no offense at all.

So, I expect this song to be posted, and I don't expect to see any more of this bullshit of censorship by bullying and badgering the people who dare to express ideas around here.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 16 Sep 00 - 01:39 PM

I agree, Joe. I think the lyrics ought to be posted so we all can read them.

As one of the people who has actually heard the song, I feel free to post my opinion of it. If you go back to the top of the thread, that is what you will see.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 02:15 AM

Hear hear Joe.

Why is it that certain "liberals" support the rights of criticised groups yet are vehemently against the rights of decent people to state their criticism?

You have to be very careful around here (UK) if you want to criticise "travellers" (who are usually not gypsies) even if only for their most overt fault of leaving a massive mess everywhere they go, to be cleaned up at public expense because they can't be bothered to clean up themselves. (Why do they have to make such a mess in the first place - no doubt the liberals will claim this is "part of their traditional way of life").

At the risk of alienating many Mudcat friends, I tend to be with Mrs Stein on this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 04:17 AM

Well, heck, I wasn't going to say any more about this, but what I was hoping is that we could see the lyrics, and then learn what it is that is offensive - so that we could avoid causing offense. I was hoping we might learn why we should NOT make prejudicial generalizations like "their most overt fault of leaving a massive mess everywhere they go."
But it looks like the whole thing is getting nastier and nastier. I had hoped that wouldn't happen.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 09:00 AM

Fascinating - ignored the thread earlier as I thought it was just going to be the lyrics to a sad stereotyping song. If the song is challenging and has a twist of '...the gypsies repair the delapidated house and in return are entertained by the wild music and dancing of the locals....' then lets hear it

Roger

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: CamiSu
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 09:35 AM

Terry--

Do you know this 'fact' about travellers from experience with all of them? Or are you reporting what 'everyone knows'? Most times the latter is not factual, and often just plain wrong! (Example, my AFSer from Norway tells me that most of the crime, and especially sexual crime, is committed by the 'foreigns' (sic). Oh. Really?) We have had, and sadly still do have those kinds of ideas floating around the US, too. We need to expose those ideas for the myths that they are so that they lose their power.

Cami Su

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 01:04 PM

Cami Su - don't get into that thing of "if you don't know ALL of them you can't have an opinion".

In the small county of Hertfordshire where I live, successive groups of "travellers" have put down their temporary roots - sometimes for several years, until the local authorities have given over land especially for them - without them having necessarily made any contribution to the society that they have decided to grace with their presence. And you can take it from me that, taken as a whole, they are an absolute pain - there is only so much you can tolerate before you end up saying, enough is enough. Yes they do leave their temporary "homes" in one hell of a state. I don't care what "everybody knows" the mess that is their legacy is there for us to see throughout the year.

I know that Hertfordshire is a popular place with the travellers because they are treated better here than in other counties. In return they treat the locals extremely badly and nobody will persuade me that that is a fair way to behave, nor is it an example of a "prejudicial generalisation" - which comment, incidentally, I take as personally offensive.

So its alright for someone to say something personally offensive and directly at me, but not alright for me to have a view about something which has had a directly adverse affect on my life for the last 30 years. I see.

My input is based on fact, here, now, for real (come to Hertfordshire and I will take you less than 4 miles to demonstrate my point - reasonable people would be appalled at how they live among us).

Once again, it is a case of the world putting its head into the sand so as to cling on desperately to the romanticism attached to minority groups (I love to sing "Thirty Foot Trailer" in the shower!) - unfortunately the reality is less than romantic.

I mentioned in my previous post that one has to be careful about making criticisms - some people have just proved they will do anything except get real.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM

According to what one friend in the UK told me: groups that are commonly known as Travelers there, now, refers mostly to leftovers from the hippie era, who travel around to fairs and such and who do, in general, make a huge nuisance of themselves. It seems unfortunate that the label has been co-opted, so that one might not even be referring to any Roma, at all.

Generalisations and sterotypes have to be worked on at both ends, if we are to educate one another and realise we are all one race: the Human race.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 01:47 PM

Kat - your friend from the UK is wrong in respect of the majority of travellers, who are typically "tinkers" or "didicoi" - nothing whatsoever to do with the hippy culture.

All things need working on from both ends, but it always seems to be the decent majority who have to make all of the running. I'd be really impressed to see the travellers make some effort to be "less unacceptable" - but I'm not holding my breath.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Branwen23
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM

um.... if anyone still cares, I have the cd.... Anyone who would care to hear the song, PM me your email address and I can send it to you as an attachment.

Please specify MP3 or WAV format. If you'd prefer not to receive so large an attachment in your email, or are unable to, I can give you a link and instructions for downloading it.


-Branwen-

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 02:01 PM

I live on the Essex Hertfordshire border, and we've got Gypsy Travellers here, some on council provided sites, some living in houses. Every now and then some are passing through, and move in on an empty patch of derelict land and camp for a few days, and you get people saying the same kind of stuff we've just been treated to. And I find that kind of talk personally offensive, just as I'd find the same kind of talk about other ethnic groups.

Most of the Gypsy Travellers I have known are people whom I'd sooner have them as neighbours than the kind of people who say that kind of stuff. And I have had them as neighbours too, and good neighbours.

And of course there are dodgy people living in caravans, just as there are in houses. And there are people living in caravans who make the same kind of offensive generalisations about housedwellers as some housedwellers do about Travellers, and that doesn't help either. And when they feel under threat, they gather in larger nuymbers for protection, and that makes them seen as invaders.

But the real people who mess up the countryside live in houses. When a group of travellers move it can look messy - especially when they've had to move on in a hurry because of harassment by housdwellers, official and unofficial. And people who are insulted and treated like vermin are often going to respond by acting in line with the way they are accused of being.

I can think of a patch of ground where some travellers got moved on, and it looked pretty messy. A few weeks later, you wouldn't know they'd been here it was the kind of m,ess that merges in and disappears. But it doesn't look like that now - housedwellers put down concrete parking places for their own cars, and big iron fences as well. It's a permanent eyesore now. Quite legally.

And the reason I worry about the kind of song that started all this is because it helps make people feel that it's all right to make those kind of offensive generalisations. And I don't want anyone under the illusion that this kind of thing doesn't matter. And that does not mean I object to the words of the song being posted here.

Here is a link to Another Spring, a song I wrote about this kind of stuff, on my website.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM

So where are the lyrics?

Subject: Lyr Add: MRS. STEIN DON'T RENT TO GYPSIES...^^
From: Áine
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:06 PM

Mrs. Stein spends her winters in Miami
And she lets her home to tenants while she's gone
And last year she let her small home to some gypsies
With a discount if they'd take care of her lawn

Well, the gypsy king he swore they would be careful
They would mow her lawn and prune her roses too
Yes he swore they would be the best caretakers
Taking care as only gypsies seems to do

That rental was the ruin of her little sweet abode
For they grazed their horses on her lawn and sold her flush commode
And to keep the fireplace going, they tore out her hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Mrs. Stein forgot that gypsies come in bunches
Like bananas on a green banana tree
They snuggle up to shelter, warmth and comfort
And last year, you know, we had an early freeze

Well, the word had gone out fast to all the gypsies
That the tribe of old King Yanosh had found a home
There were cars from Texas, made in Massachusetts
Gypsies got there from _____, and some from Rome

They were sleeping in the attic; they were sleeping on the stairs
Used the basement as a bathroom, really lent the place an air
And to keep the fireplace going, they tore out her hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

In her living room, they opened up a barre jour
And when the neighbours came to call, they ripped 'em off
With crystal ball, tarot, palmistry and tea leaves
Picking pockets of the ones that came to scoff

Well, the things they did annoyed her irate neighbours
(Musical break)
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie

You could hear their gypsy violins 'till dawn
For they dragged her Persian carpet to the garden
And they built this raging campfire in the lawn

There was laughing, dancing, singing, and the sound of tambourines
Some errant neighbours' husbands were discovered at the scene
And they helped to feed the campfire with what looked like hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Then at last one irate neighbour called Miami
(Spoken) "Hello, Mrs. Stein?"
And she told her Mrs. Stein just how things stood
(Spoken) "I hope you've got good insurance, and you're out of beer."
With the gypsy violins and raging campfire
Gotta wonder where the gypsies found the wood

And perhaps the gypsies read it in the tarot
Or perhaps the gypsies saw it in the stars
But the minute that her jet plane left Miami
They began to load her furniture in cars
(Spoken) "Get the hot tub, the ______ machine, the whips and chains -- unintelligible -- and leave the bidet right where it is)

They regarded household fixtures and their private treasure trove
Ripped up the sink and ice box, the cabinets and the stove
And as one last gypsy gesture, stole the last of hardwood floor
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey hey

Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie
Lie, lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie lie
Mrs. Stein don't rent to gypsies anymore, hey

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Mbo
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:10 PM

So...all the contention over this little stinker? Instantly forgettable.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: CamiSu
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:24 PM

Terry,

Had you said the ones in my neighborhood did so-and-so I would have assumed you knew this from experience. It does not, however, mean all are like that any more than all white males are insensitive boors. 'Tain't so! Perhaps I should have said 'All generalisations are false, including this one.'

But as you have seen on this thread, travellers, like all people come in many flavors. To paint them all with the same brush is hurtful and unfair. This applies to a rosy-hued brush as well as a demonizing one. You will bump your nose on reality either way. But I'd much rather make the mistake to the good than the bad, and who knows? We might all be surprised when someone behaves better than even they themselves expected! (There have been studies done with teachers being told their students were either above or below average, when they weren't. In either case the teacher got what s/he expected.)

Cami Su

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: catspaw49
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 11:38 PM

The problem is Meebo, its not.

Aine, you have alwyas had my respect and my friendship for whatever its worth, but you have doubled that tonight.

What a complete piece of tripe.....and worse. Funny? just good clean fun? Just a little cute song? Read those lyrics and tell me you love it. I suppose I should applaud these guys for singing it huh? Just a little harmless poking fun at the gypsies?

I bet an airline crash cracks these guys up. Especially a big fiery one that hits a school. I'll be looking forward to their take on that.

Geeziz.........gimmee peace. Yeah, stuff like this deserves to be preserved alright. So glad we now have these warm and sensitive lyrics to enhance our understanding of what bigotry is all about. If you didn't find this little ditty offensive, maybe you were thinking of another song huh?

Sorry Aine. You are the very best my dear.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: IvanB
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:00 AM

Áine, I'm sorry it fell on you to have to post the lyrics. 'Spaw said it all. They managed to hit just about every traveler stereotype I can think of.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Terry K
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:26 AM

The song is completely inept and utterly trite in its overstatement. If I were a gypsy, or any kind of traveller, I'd be offended.

But on a point of principle (and only that), it still means it should be ignored rather than banned.

Terry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 01:51 AM

What a crappy song. Unfortunately, nomadic peoples still seem to be considered 'safe' targets for bigots. There have been several 'news' programs on, I think, NBC, over the last few years, all about how Roma, travellers, etc. are a bunch of shifty, incestuous, old-woman-robbing welfare abusers. Has anyone else seen this garbage? I'm not sure if they still churn it out. I hope not. :(

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: The Beanster
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 02:41 AM

After reading this thread and not knowing the song, I was thinking to myself, oh, how bad could the song be? People are so overly sensitive...well. I've changed my tune. It's not funny, it's not harmless, it's mean and horrible. And spaw, I don't think the Blarney Brothers are blood-thirsty monsters (think you went a bit overboard there with the fiery airline crash thing) but they are being extremely insensitive when they sing this cruel song. Perhaps someone should point this out to them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: CamiSu
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:23 AM

It IS quite awful. I would not be comfortable hearing this in public, nor even in private, and certainly wouldn't buy a CD with this on it!

Cami Su

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 08:49 AM

Screw the song. I am in shock at how many times I have seen 60 Minutes cover "gypsy scams" ranging from fortune telling theft to hungry children stealing wallets or heard our own local police attribute a crime to "The gypsies - you know that they are back in the park" and never gave it a second thought. Had they said it was the neighborhood Jews or Colombians or ANY other racial group I would have been furious enough to complain to the local precinct. Had InOBU not objected,I would probably have put this song in the same category as "Who Threw The Overalls In Mrs. Murphy's Chowder?" - silly, unkind, but harmless. Nasty business and I have been a part of it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:00 AM

Thanx for the lyric. If anyone recalls, a request for this was the starting point of this thread. It would have made much more sense for the criticisms, attacks and vitriol (all justified) to have been held off until people got to know what was being attacked.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: sophocleese
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:09 AM

dick, you do speak so sensibly. Its a lousy, nasty, little song, but I needed to see the lyrics myself to understand how bad it was. Thank you Áine.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: My name Jo
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:12 AM

The song is trash. As I just mentioned in the other thread, I don't think that it's a coincidence that "Mrs. Stein" was given a common Jewish surname. Miami is also popular as a retirement/winter destination among the Jewish community. I think the songwriter's intent was to sow, or to create, resentment between two groups.

I would like to know the name of the songwriter. Credit please, where credit is due.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 09:15 AM

Thank you, Aine, (sorry, don't know how to do the diacritical mark) for actually posting the lyrics. Yes, I agree that the song is pretty offensive, but I also think that it needed to be posted to ground the discussion in something solider than suppositions.

I am with Joe on this one. We need to see the lyrics -- even the offensive ones -- in order to discuss a song fairly. I think that powerful personal narratives are important here too, but saying "I find this song offensive, and this is why," is very different from "Don't post this song because it might offend me."

Okay, I'm new. But I did bring my own soapbox!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 12:02 PM

Normally songs are posted by people who think they are worth singing or listening to. This time it was posted under pressure by someone who quite rightly thought it was offensive rubbish.

I hope this this isn't a precedent, and that it doesn't mean that if someone does ask for the Horst Wessell song I should feel a duty to post the words, or give a link to a Nazi site where they can be found. (I just checked that is true, with a standard search engine - and I can tell you there are even worse songs than that out there.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 01:13 PM

I don't know if I'd recognize a Roma (is there a plural of this? This is the first time I've seen the word, but if it is acceptable in place of the older "Gypsy" I'll be happy to add it to my vocabulary) if one stood next to me in line at the supermarket. Perhaps they dress differently than the housebound, but heck, this is Seattle, and dressing "differently" is hardly shocking here anymore.

But this song is really a nasty little piece of work. Thank you, Aine, for posting it, as much as it must have scalded your fingers to type it. You are a true gem, and I have nothing but respect for you. You are a credit to every bloodline that you grace.

I'm glad we've seen the words. Now we can comment on it from a position of knowledge rather than ignorance, and now that I have that knowledge, I must say: BLEH! I would NEVER sing this song, nor knowingly purchase a CD/cassette/dvd/whatever that has it on it, nor attend a Blarney Brothers concert until they swear off the thing.

Prejudice and hatred are an evil thing, as is censorship. Just my US$.02.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 01:43 PM

Thanks for seeing and saying mousethief.......notice I didn't say Ratso.........

Censorship is pretty much abhorred across the board here. These songs often involve long and nasty argument though and I don't care if someone wants to post lyrics, but I understand also why some would not want to post them themselves. Aine IS something special.

I guess what troubled me more here was the feeling that no matter what the feelings or knowledge was of Aine, Larry, and others who DID know this ditty, we literally insisted to some degree that we "see them for ourselves." Now I understand wanting to "see them" in that context, but I also have an old fashioned sense of loyalty and trust in people, like Aine, who have proven themselved to me and at times I am willing to take the word of such a good friend and also to respect their wishes. I guess that may endorse censorship, and if it does, so be it.

For that which I believe, I am willing to fight and protest. Anyone knowing my history that has been around here awhile will attest to that. Freedom is an illusion as I'm sure you are aware from your philo background. When it comes to deciding upon loyalty and friendship versus those illusory freedoms, I opt for the former everytime.

BTW mousethief, I'm glad you're here now. Your posts are always excellent and I look toward getting to know you better. Have a nice one Ratso.........uh, mousethief.(:<))

Spaw

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: dosn't rent to gypsys
From: DougR
Date: 18 Sep 00 - 04:24 PM

It's not a funny song. Can't imagine people finding it funny.

DougR