Can Anyone Define 'EP'?

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Oct 12 - 10:44 AM

Also, a 33 1/3 disk revolves exactly 2000 times per hour.

A physics teacher told me that 33 1/3 and 45 are easy speeds to build AC motors for on 50Hz and 60Hz (Europe and America).

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Oct 12 - 10:03 AM

Re a couple of statements people have made.
SPEED: nearly ALL EPs were 45rpm not 33 (I have a stack of them and have just checked!)
MIDDLES: quite a lot were sold without middles and you had to buy the plastic adaptors to go with them. These were bought from new, and NOT ex-jukebox stock. This particualrly applies to several French ones I have.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 29 Sep 12 - 10:36 AM

Pete Seeger's Goofing Off Suite was on a ten inch album.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 11:44 AM

Just to put the cat among the pigeons, I possess several shellac 78 rpm records which claim to be "Extended Play" and even more "45" size ones which say they are "Long Playing".

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 03:54 AM

If you stopped winding your gramophone, the 78 soon started to slow down to 45 and 331/3 before stopping.
Best of all three worlds?
Quack!
GtD

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Sep 12 - 12:41 AM

Believe it or not, John, four minutes of "The Right of the People to Rule" are available on YouTube.
T.R. was quite the speaker, wasn't he?
-Joe-

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 09:10 PM

When I went to my grandfather's House he had a big bunch of records. They were mostly black and sort of shiny, and resembled a piece of plastic sewer pipe about 6" long. Most of them were black, but a couple were a really pretty blue and there was one yellow one - IIRC.

One of them that I remember listening to several times was a speech by Teddy Roosevelt about "The Right of the People to Rule."

Even when the 78s came along a lot of the records we ran into (at the used record store - couldn't afford a new one) were 16s. A couple of publishers decided that "educational materials" should be on them for a couple of reasons:

1. They could squeeze more minutes into the same disk size.

2. Since most people couldn't play them at home everybody would realize they were "special" and they could charge a whole lot more for them (after all, school boards were all rich, weren't they.?).

3. They didn't give a good crap about what they sounded like (after all, they're just for kids).

4. They could sell the schools all "industrial grade" 16 rpm players for even more profit (see #2 above).

Even much later, when the schools had "real sound equipment" a local Radio Station sent me a "courtesy copy" of a news broadcast about me and some girl from another school who had just won a somethinorother, recorded on a limp piece of blackish Saran wrap, at 16 rpm. Never did find out what they said.

John

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:51 PM

Quack

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 05:45 PM

Love 10" vinyl. My favourite was Slates by The Fall. Some kind soul on Mudcat sent my a 10" album of Sea Shanties a few years ago...

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Gurney
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 04:37 PM

I recently sold online, on behalf of a friend, a couple of Slim Whitman EPs.
There was bidding!

I have in my collection a 10" LP, (so described in the sleeve notes,) 33.333rpm recording by Stanley Holloway. The only one of these that I can remember seeing. Four monologues on each side.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 03:47 AM

Or for listeners to Radio 2:
EP = Elaine Paige on Sundays a radio show concentrating on 'songs from the shows'.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Hamish
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 03:27 AM

16? Very useful for slowing down stuff you couldn't work out at full speed. Whereas 78 was great for turning Val Doonican into The Chipmunks.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,Steve
Date: 27 Sep 12 - 03:16 AM

>>>>>>>>How on earth did they come up with those speeds anyhow??>>>>>>>>
http://vinylville.tripod.com/spindoc.html
Gives a good explanation from Peter Copeland at the National Sound Archive.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 12 - 10:35 PM

I had a couple of 16rpm (actually 16 2/3) records; as mentioned above, usually 7" like a 45 or EP & only for speech - typically giveaways at conferences & fairs on really cheap plastic, not even vinyl. Possibly some plays were recorded on full size (12") @ 16-2/3, which would give 45 minutes or so per side, but I never saw any.

Being an old fogey, oops, I mean folky, I even had a wind-up totally mechanical phonograph (78 rpm natch). I can remember when 45's were the latest thing, and then 45 EP's tried to compete with 33-1/3 LP's, unsuccessfully. If I remember rightly, one of the big record companies came out with the 33 LP and another very quickly brought out the 45 as competition offering higher quality (in theory) because of the speed; rather like the VHS/Beta competition.

How on earth did they come up with those speeds anyhow?? I mean, 78 rpm? Why not 80, or 90? And then 33-1/3 ??? Was there a studio standard of 100 rpm that somebody divided by 3?
TP

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 12 - 06:32 PM

jerry palmer [e-mail] yes, it means extended play.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Sep 12 - 06:25 PM

jerry palmer,[e-mail] it means extended play

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 09 - 06:10 PM

Tattie Bogle;;;;; those records with a hole in the middle requiring an adaptor were normally used in the Juke boxes. I remember getting our radiogram converted so it would play the new fangled singles at 45 rpm. Must have been late 50's!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,Mick Woods
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:57 PM

EPs were usually 33 & 3rd rpm. I still have a couple (John Mayall & Pretty Things"somewhere. Magical Mystery Tour by the Beatles was a double 33.3rd rpm 7" Vinyl. In the 70s when they could squeeze more grooves onto a 7" they played at 45 rpm and were called Maxi Singles!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:53 PM

Ep's were the norm in England in the 1960's. My grandfather had a whole series of EP's of the great composers issued weekly by Readers Digest, I still have them.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 05:35 PM

Still got some Folkways 10" and 12" LP's (33.33...rpm); some Stinson 12" which are? transparent and red (difficult to position the stylus as you can see the trackbreakers on the other side). EP's were 45 rpm and around when singles were 10" 78 rpm; I think the 45 rpm singles appeared later. Yes I remember the Topic 8" 33.333rpm too; they didn't have a specific title if I remember. REcord players had two styli: one for the 78's and the other for the 'microgrove' everything else.
Does anyone know how the speeds were arrived at?

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Brakn
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 09:58 AM

I have a 1971 Thin Lizzy 7inch EP called "New Day" that played 33.33!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 08:57 AM

Just about the only EP I only ever bought was the Beatles' Magical Mystery Tour, now a collector's item I believe. But some bastard nicked it! probably that spotty youth I was besotted with at 17! and if you're out there - give it back! *sob*

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Terry McDonald
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 08:28 AM

I have the 8" Topic LP (33.1/3 rpm) entitled 'Row, Bullies, Row' from 1956. I also have the 7" 33.1/3 Talking Book entitled 'Kissings Nae Sin.' Neither would have been referred to as 'E.Ps'. My Steve Benbow Folk Four 45 rpm record was (and is) an EP.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 08:06 AM

We had some 16 rpm records played to us at primary school. They were some sort of talking book enterprise, and they were OK for speech rather than music.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Kevin Sheils
Date: 13 Aug 09 - 06:09 AM

Just wondering about the Topic record cat no. T4 I'm holding

It's 33 1/3 rpm but 8" so I guess it's an LP but with only 3 shortish tracks a side should really only be an EP

Topic had quite a few odd formats in the early years.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 08:12 PM

I have a Bob Roberts EP with 5 songs on it, as well as the Beatles "Twist and Shout", Cliff Richard, Richard Anthony (no middle in this one, you had to put a plastic adapter into it) and quite a few classical titles.
Most of our old bakelite 78s got put into the oven to make flower bowls! Then there were a few vinyl ones, including my first Lonnie Donegan, "Putting on the Style".

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 02:54 PM

I've just copied 2 Talking Book records -

Bob Roberts with melodeon - Windy Old Weather - 6 shanties

Isabel Sutherland & Jimmie MacGregor - Kisin's Nae Sin - 6 love songs and bothy ballads.

Both 7 inch, 33.3rpm. Recorded and edited by Peter Kennedy, copyright 1960 EFDSS.

Lavish illustrated sleeve/booklets with words.

Phil

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: gnomad
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 11:05 AM

When I was young we had a player which had a 16 setting, as well as the then-normal 78,45, and 33. I never saw a 16rpm record, but I understand they were mostly used for speech, not yielding a sufficient sound quality for music.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 11:04 AM

I remember visiting my grandfather's old house in southeast Texas in the 1940's. He had an ancient Victrola with a collection of records, probably 78's, grooved only on one side and quite thick and heavy. They seemed to be made of some sort of black hard rubber-like material or a primitive plastic. The only two names I recall from among the artists were Madame Schumann-Heink and Enrico Caruso. I wish I had them today.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: jeffp
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:57 AM

Talking Book records! We had a set of Mark Twain stories. Loved them!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:55 AM

Indeed!

The only one I ever saw was one my sibling had of Nina & Frederik, the diameter was similar to a 78

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Tim Leaning
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:40 AM

A new needle and some sort of drug to put in it.
ask the nice nurse.
Remember 16 rpm records anyone?

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:37 AM

http://www.btinternet.com/~bill78/needles.htm

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: nutty
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:33 AM

You probably need a new needle

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: frogprince
Date: 10 Aug 09 - 10:30 AM

Can someone help me with this problem? Whenever I put one of these new little shiny records on the turntable, no matter what speed I set, all I get is really horrible scratching noises.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: GUEST,JMCM
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 09:43 PM

Bugsy,
The 10 inch discs certainly were played at 33. Bit of usless info - they were quite often 78 presses that were being reused, the ealy TOPIC records for instance.
However there were 7 inch records which played at 33. They were revived by (I think) PICKWICK, who released a set of Greatest Hits EPs by many artists, in the 70/80s 7 inch, three three-minute tracks a side, playing at 33.
love, john.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 08:16 PM

I have a pal who's had two big birthdays so far: 331/3 and 45. By the time he's 78 there will be no-one left who knows the significance. This thread reminds me of one of my favourite newspaper headlines. A golfer cut an album and the headline was:"Jacklin goes round in 331/3 - it's a record of course."

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Bernard
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:50 PM

I've got an oddball 45 - sized single by John Williams (the classical guitarist).

The 'A' side is at 45 but the 'B' side is at 33...

Just thought you'd like to know.

Okay then, I'll sulk...

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:24 PM

Sorry Kim....I had to use SOMEBODY!!! Substitute Lawrence Welk if you like.

Bert........that was a rotten one...and I loved it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:40 PM

But I like Slim Whitman!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Bert
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 11:25 AM

So if Spaw is right, then Hitler was a single!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Brendy
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 05:13 AM

I've got a load of 12 in. singles (45 RPM) from the '80's.

They seem to be a disappearing breed also.

B.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Bugsy
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 04:54 AM

Rangeroger, the small 33.3rpm records were usually 10in LP's.

EP only relates to 45rpm. All 33.3rpm are classed as LP

Cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: The Lighthouse
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:57 AM

EP's usually had about 4 or 5 songs on them as opposed to a 2 song 45, and was for people not willing to buy a full LP. But that idea fizzled!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: rangeroger
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:39 AM

I still have a Duane Eddy EP with Rebel Rouser,Stalkin',Ramrod, and The walker on it. London Records 1958. 45 rpm.

There were also some 45 sized EPs put out in the early 60's played at 33 1/3.
I have one by Chet Atkins playing "Great Movie Themes".

rr

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Brendy
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 04:07 PM

No. You nailed it there, Fionn.
My mother had a marvellous collection of '78's. Count John MacCormack, Bing Crosby, Mario Lanza, etc. One of my sisters has them now.
Am I really that old?

B.
(But 'Spaw's right as well!)

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 01:22 PM

The term "extended play" came in way back in the glory days of vinyl when EPs were physically the same size as singles but more importantly played at the same speed - ie 45rpm, rather than the 33.3333333333333333 for "long play". (No really, some folks won't know this! I can even remember listening to Giulini on 78s.)

"Extended play" meant squeezing the grooves enough to allow (typically) two three-minute tracks per side.

Or Spaw might be right.

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 12:57 PM

......no huh?...........Well geez Bill, I always thought that was it...................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 12:52 PM

no 'spaw....just NO!

Subject: RE: Can Anyone Define 'EP'?
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Aug 00 - 12:17 PM

EP=Erect Penis...Several really great songs that get you wired up.

LP=Limp Penis...12 or more songs that leave you flat,like the "Best of Slim Whitman"

Spaw