Thought for the Day - August 21,00

Subject: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Peter T.
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 11:35 AM

In a summer portrait painting class over the weekend, we had a striking female model who was the epitome of what the French call "jolie-laide" (not very well translated as beautiful-ugly) -- the kind of woman painters love because she had strong features put together in nothing like the fashion magazine cookie cutter. Also something in her carriage -- this is who I am, and if you don't like it, there is something wrong about you, not about me. I was reminded of things and places that no one would normally think of as conventionally beautiful, but which are "jolie-laide" -- bittersweet chocolate, Ravel's Trios, Velasquez' dwarfs and jesters, Helen Mirren, Humphrey Bogart, Judy Garland, Tom Waits' music. It is a category all its own, and I wondered if others had examples of their own, this subtle but powerful unorthodox beauty.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Lox
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:02 PM

Most of the developing world.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:13 PM

Chelsea Clinton.
None of the conventional Hollywood beauty but definitely a beautiful young woman with an amazing dignity given her lot in life.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Kim C
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:22 PM

Elvis Costello. Strong hot coffee. Lyle Lovett. The movie Fargo. Hardanger fiddle. Meryl Streep. A perfect pint of Guinness. Caviar. A bite of Stilton cheese. The platypus.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: SINSULL
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 12:26 PM

And Spaw.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: MMario
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:14 PM

I imagine 'spaw's comment to that will be somewhere along the lines of he's always "jolie" when he is "laide" *ahem*

okay - people are gonna think me wierd(er) for this, but the smell of manure...in moderation...

that kelpy - rotting fish smell of the seashore

sour milk, when it's from a baby

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Catrin
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:17 PM

Barbara Streisand, black olives, hot chillies, singing in front of strangers (esp. non-folkies), writing essays.....

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:19 PM

Tracy Chapman.....The Edsel....snakes...west Texas...

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:22 PM

I think it was in "Stranger in a Strange Land" that the main character comments on how much more interesting the face of a mature woman is when compared to that of a young, inexperienced woman. I found that characterization true back in '68 and find it even more insightful now. I think it's also true about conversation. This is not to say that a "beautiful" young woman can't also be interesting. Rather, I question why we define "beauty" so narrowly in this culture?

I am but an egg.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 01:22 PM

I think it was in "Stranger in a Strange Land" that the main character comments on how much more interesting the face of a mature woman is when compared to that of a young, inexperienced woman. I found that characterization true back in '68 and find it even more insightful now. I think it's also true about conversation. This is not to say that a "beautiful" young woman can't also be interesting. Rather, I question why we define "beauty" so narrowly in this culture?

I am but an egg.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 02:08 PM

Well I see the good jokes are already taken...and very well done I might add.

PT, glad to see you back, and I recognize what you you are saying. There are some things that certainly fit that pattern and perhaps it is the nature of nature to shed a certain type of beauty on everything in relation to its function. Maybe its a beauty that not all can see because we a re tuned to our cultures. I dunno'.....I'm just an idiot.

Tell ya' what though, I've never seen an ugly sailboat that was worth a damn or sailed well and was fast. Beautiful sailboats are generally faster and better than their uglier brethren. Back when 12 Meters raced for the America's Cup, there was a very radical 12 with an odd chopped and blunt stern section, named Mariner. Possibly it was the ugliest 12 ever built and it was dog slow. The designer kept trying to improve it, but you can't make a silk purse..............Most people laid the blame on the awful looking stern section and Ted Turner, who had been sailing this pig, had the best line: "Aw fergodsakes, even a turd is tapered on both ends."

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Gervase
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 02:24 PM

Funny really; the mother of my children always insisted she was a 'jolie laide'; with the raison d'etre being: "Well. if you fancy me, you must surely be strange, because I've got hairy legs etc..."
In fact, it took some time to convince her I wasn't gay - merely dotty about her.
But, heck, she sure is beautiful - particularly when she's really cross with me. Which is when there's a 'y' in the day, but never mind...

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: hesperis
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 02:38 PM

"Jolie-laide" - How could I forget that!
I was in French Immersion in public school, and I have forgotten all my French...

One friend of mine is absolutely gorgeous, but he has too much character in his face to be considered "beautiful" and he could be ugly if the character he shows wasn't so wonderful. I tease him and call him "ugly-gorgeous" but he has never really understood what I meant by it. (He takes it as an insult, poor man!)

Now I can explain that as a result of being Artiste, I view beauty differently than most of our culture. That he is "ugly-beautiful" and that it is good.

According to most of this culture, I am beautiful. Unfortunately, some of my women friends do not understand that they are beautiful too, and they start worrying that I will steal their boyfriends. And people do not realize that I am not healthy, just because I am skinny. It is painful to be considered beautiful sometimes.

On a lighter note, someone at orchestra called me "ugly" once, and I was very insulted! She was actually serious, and said that since I wasn't blond and blue eyed I was ugly. (!!!)
I was sick at the time, and dressed in grungy work clothes, but I just turned to her with body attitude that said "I am the most beautiful woman in the world, I know it, you know it" and she just *stared* at me. She couldn't believe the difference! (Ha!)

Beauty *is* attitude. It is fluidity. It is heart that shows and glows outward for all to see.
It is intelligence, and strength, and health, radiant.

For the list:
'Fat' women with good bones. Baked Bean Mush. (Looks really ugly and tastes sooooo good!) Newborns. Faces of old people who have lived their lives, and come to terms with themselves. Sharpei, Chow and Shih Tzu dogs. Folk stories that make you think. Certain discords in music. Minor, "ethnic" and modal keys, which have more interesting possibilities for interaction between chords over time.

Peter, thank you for starting this thread!

~*sirepseh*~

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: Morticia
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 02:58 PM

interesting thread Peter, but then yours so often are....jolie-laide would include for me Dick Gaughan, Robbie Coltrane,Picasso,the smell of creosote,Emile Zola and Campari....do you have Campari in the States?( And I've seen your wife Gervase and she's lovely, you can tell her I said so and no, I'm not gay either.)

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 07:36 PM

Life.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: JenEllen
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 10:59 PM

I had a horse when I was growing up. My grandpa gave him to me and told me it was going to be my best friend. I looked at this monstrous, ugly creature and laughed.

He was half Thoroughbred and half Tennessee Walker. Tall, with feet the size of man-hole covers. Roman nose, and big long fuzzy ears like a mule. He was by far the ugliest horse I have ever seen in my life. To this day I've not seen a horse that was worse put together.

The first time I took Mule out on a cattle drive, I nudged him into a trot. Instead of having my spine pounded into dust, I found myself rocking gently in the saddle. He had the smoothest, steadiest gait of any creature on four legs. He was tireless, and even at that trot, with his long legs, he was faster than most horses at a gallop. He cut like a dream, and with those big feet, he was steady on any ground. Those big fuzzy ears would turn around and listen to me, and we ran like the wind. He also had a penchant for nibbling my hair, and stealing popsicles...

He died of natural causes last summer, at the ripe old age of 35. Swinging until his last day. My grandpa took Mule's tail hair and braided me a hatband and a hackmore for the next pony, but I don't think any horse will take his place.

Jolie-laide on four legs.

~Elle

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: paddymac
Date: 21 Aug 00 - 11:41 PM

Now, now Michael (er, Bartholomew) it takes time to grok it in its fullness.

Subject: RE: Thought for the Day - August 21,00
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Aug 00 - 02:19 AM

Leo Kotke