Can we have some Mudcat accounts?

Subject: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:34 PM

Can we have some mudcat accounts please?

I am (for my own reasons) posting this thread as a 'guest'

If you have a problem with that, fair enough, don't read any further.

For those who are still reading, I'd like to ask a question, put forward a thought or whatever.

The 'mudcat' (aka Max) has occasionally asked for money, and lots of good people have contributed in various ways.

I've yet to hear how that money was spent.

I have never given any money to the mudcat.

Why not?

For the simple reason that I don't know what I'm paying for.

A while ago, there was a push to get enough money to reinstate the 'super search' and it happened. Great.

At the moment, the online searching capabilaties of the DT are, lets be honest, woefully poor.

I'd be more than happy to contribute anything that I could, if I knew that it'd make a difference. I don't.

Let me know what the mudcat needs, let me know how much it will cost to implement, give me some idea of how my money will be spent, and I'll contribute.

That's all

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:42 PM

1) I highly doubt that the contributions have come anywhere close to the operating costs of the mudcat RADIO show, let alone the MudCat.

2) to describe the online searching capabilities of the DT and Forum as "woefully poor" is ridiculous. They aren't as good as we woul;d like, but given familiarity with the various systems you can find just about anything. or god forbid, you could ask for help.

3) the answers to your questions are in the forum. They have been there for some time.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:49 PM

It cost at least $50,000 for that last Mudcat upgrade alone. As far as I know, contributions ahave not yet reached a tenth of that figure.

Bert.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:50 PM

I suppose that's a legitimate request, but it all sounds so formal. I think I've given a couple hundred bucks to Mudcat in the three years I've been here. I figure it's just a drop in the bucket, something to help Max out with the expenses. I trust Max to use it wisely, and I don't care to ask him how he spent it. If he used it for beer money, that's OK with me. I've gotten more than two hundred bucks worth of pleasure out of Mudcat.
If it comes to the point where it appears that Mudcat is primarily supported by the contributions of members and others, then I think there should be some system of accounting. Right now, it's quite obvious to me that Mudcat is paid for by Max, with a bit of help from donors. That being the case, I don't see a need for setting up a system of accounting, with all the hassle and possible animosity connected with that.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From:
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 04:55 PM

Guest, as far as I recall, the monies collected were towards upgrading the system, of which consists of at LEAST 3 complete systems. Any money contributes to the general operation and maintenance of this system.

The amounts, as Mmario points out, wouldn't maintain even the yearly connection costs, as I understand it. It's mostly a thankless job that Max keeps it going, for which I am eternally grateful.

There is other work in maintaining software, which seems to have a problem with SuperSearch right now. I know Joe Offer has been talking to Max on it, and I'm sure it would be rectified shortly.

Please elaborate on the "woefully poor" comment. I also would like to hear what you feel needs improvement. I feel the "SuperSearch" is quite useful since it searches the entire database, of roughly 5000? or more song lyrics, PLUS the hundreds of K-bytes of messages, of which an increasing number of them are the BS ones.

As for an account, certainly you can have an accounting, which is what I suspect you refer to. If you have contributed in the past, and aren't satisfied with how the money was spent, I sure we can find some way to refund you that amount.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:03 PM

Like Joe, if I look back at the money I've given, whether it was for a set of training wheels, matching bucks for the Moustache tuner thingy, of a few outright ones, I have coughed up a few hundred. And as far as I'm concerned, if Max wants to use it buy toilet paper, condoms, beer, or upgrade stuff, I could care less. its a drop in the bucket compared to the operating costs and as long as the joint is here, I'm satisfied. Mario has detailed some answers for you and if you are uncomfortable givig a few bucks here and there without a "proper accounting".....so be it. I don't ask my Gas or Electric companies or my ISP for that matter for an accounting.....I just expect service! Mudcat gives me far more than I could ever give in bucks.....so I figure I'm way ahead.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:05 PM

As always, where my face, and tone of voice can't be seen, i've been misunderstood.

All I'm trying to say is that i'd be far more likely to contribue if I knew what my money was going to buy - and I'm certain that i'm not alone in that

bert, if max has spent $45 000 of his own money on the upgrade (which i don't believe for a second) then more fool him

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:11 PM

Okay....so you're misunderstood.........I'm pissed and I don't get that way often!!!!!!!

Nobody demands you be here or give any money to be here do they? Max has made a lot of improvements in the past several years and the search stuff works fine if you use it properly.....Could it be better.....Sure and maybe down the road it will. But whatever goes on, its up to Max to do and whether or not you want to support is is your problem and anyone else's who demands to know where each dime is going.

GEEZIZ!!!!!! I bet you Sewer company loves you don't they? Are you down there checking where the shit is going too????

Have a Coke and a smile and shut the fuck up. This is ridiculous!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:15 PM

Guest, does it really matter to you whether your donation would buy/contibute towards a specific item or simply to contribute towards the daily running of this forum?

Surely Max can be trusted to allocate the money where it is most needed without having to account for where it was spent or do you want something like a park bench with your name on?

Jon

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:17 PM

So don't contribute. There are plenty of us who get enough out of this site to not care whether or not we know exactly what "that man behind the curtain" is doing or not doing.

Respectfully,

Carol

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:25 PM

Before you pour your vitriol on me, please refresh the lost Pete Seeger Banjo thread.

In that case, lots of you cursed the 'lowlife jerk' who'd apparently stolen the instrument, and if I remember correctly wanted to hang him. Guess what, you were all wrong...

All I was trying to ask by starting this thread, was to understand where my money might be going, and how any contribution might be used.

Jeeezzz, some of you people are really up tight

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: dwditty
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:29 PM

Ditto from Ditty. The end result is we have a really wonderful place to gather. The database, the forum, hearme, the radio show, and whatever else may be coming down the pike from Max, could easily stand on their own as fantastic sites. Put together, it's incredible, and I know I am not alone when I say that I love Mudcat. So, to reiterate, "Who cares where the money goes?" First of all, I doubt if more than a piddling has been donated compared to the cost. Anyone who has contributed is getting a terrific return. The rest, just say thank you and enjoy it.

dw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:33 PM

GUEST, take a pill or something. Your veneer is very thin, and it doesn't take a genius to figure you out. You seek to create an issue where there is none. Evidence of this does not lie in your request, which I understand, even if I don't share the concern. Evidence of your true intent lies in your reaction. No one has gotten "really up tight". One of two got mildly perturbed. Most just said, and I concur, that it isn't important to them. I believe you are seeking to create an issue where there is none. And your tactic is transparent. Just go back to posting on the music threads, and I look forward to seeing you there.

Mick

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:34 PM

You said...As always, where my face, and tone of voice can't be seen, i've been misunderstood... You're bloody NAME can't be seen either. If you wan't any more information, tell us who you are.

I'm BERT!!!

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:37 PM

I'm obviosly being totally misunderstood here, so I'll make this my last post on this thread.

If I knew that the mudcat needed a new server, why, and how much it was going to cost, I'd be more than happy to help.

When I have no idea, and any money I might contribute goes into a virtual vacuum, I have less inclination to help.

Surely this view makes sense to someone?

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: GUEST,A Nicer Guest
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:38 PM

To the not-so-nice Guest:

Unless you have been personally solicited by Max, you are under no obligation to donate ANYTHING. As my astute colleagues, above, have stated, many of us receive far more enjoyment from this site, than could ever be redeemed or expressed in monetary units. If you do not feel this way or have not experienced the upgrades that have occurred over the past three and one/half years, then you are blind, or more nicely put, simply unawares.

I'm sure there are mudcatters who simply cannot afford to send a donation, but they contribute in other ways, such as, helping newcomers to the site or researching an answer for a question. We consider this as much of a donation as sending a check. Have you given up your personal time to help a fellow mudcatter? If you answer is "no," then everything said in this thread is probably falling on deaf ears.

So, stay if you like; go if you don't like. The Mudcat Cafe will survive with or without you, however, most mudcatters feel that losing "someone" is sad. It is your decision.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:45 PM

First Guest.

Here's a suggestion. Send a PM to Max and ask him what he needs, equipment wise. If he tells you about something that is in a price range that you can consider, then buy it for him and give it to him. Or, you can contribute to the utility expenses by sending money directly to the utility company on behalf of the Mudcat. If you really want to make a financial contribution, I'm sure you can find a way that won't make you feel uncomfortable.

Respectfully,

Carol

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Ed Pellow
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:46 PM

I'm going to stick my neck out and say that 'guest' actually has a point.

I only ever give to charity collectors in the street, when I have a fair idea where the money will go.

I don't see 'guest's' point as being any different from that.

Ed

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Áine
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:47 PM

Shame on the lot of you for letting yet another anonymous troll wind you up and/or get your goat. Now, instead of typing in a response to this person, and therefore taking up yet more space on the server(s) that Max has to support out of his own pocket, if you can afford it, take out your checkbook, write a check, and put it in the mail to Max right now. There'll be no good done in responding anymore to this obvious flamebait. And to those who can only afford to support the Mudcat by helping others, good on you, too.

In other words, put your money and/or time and knowledge where your mouth is. And we'll all be the better for it, even the anonymous guest, although he/she/it probably will never realize it.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: DougR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:52 PM

Guest: The Mudcat is not a public corporation. There is no requirement to publish a financial statement. I have made modest donations to the Mudcat and wouldn't dream of asking Max for an accounting. I agree with Joe Offer. The pleasure I receive from the Mudcat is well worth my sending a few bucks from time to time.

Right, Spaw, if Max squanders the money on spirits, wild women (or maybe not so wild) and condoms, why not? Just be carefull, Max, those things have been known to leak, and you could end up with a little Max. If you think the Mudcat is expensive, and worrysome, and oh you know ...

DougR

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Night Owl
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 05:58 PM

Guest...not sure here if I understand your difficulty conceptualizing Mudcats. My "knee-jerk" reaction to your first post was to suggest you send in a check, for a year's supply of aspirin for Max. After reading your second post, I choose to believe your question is sincere. THEORETICALLY I think you're right..professional fundraising is usually more successful if there's a specific item/goal to purchase. If that is your background, I assume Max et. al. have a wish list. Maybe if you sent a personal message, letting Max know how much you wish to contribute, a specific item could be purchased for that amount. Further, if you do have a fundraising background, perhaps you could give us some more specifics. It's difficult, but I'm assuming your comments to Bert where a clumsy way of saying YOU would never spend that amout of $$ on preserving and sharing music.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:00 PM

I do think this was a wind-up, but just to try logic... If something is going to be needed for Mudcat next year, and it's going to take that long to save a 10th of the money needed, how is Max or anyone going to predict what that is, short of "hardware and software upgrades?"

If he manages to save money, fine. If he needs it now, he's not going to get enough to make a difference - not that it helps all that much even in the long run.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:02 PM

I really do want to pull my hair out at times here.

Aine thinks that I'm another intoloper. She is so, so wrong.

All I am trying to say is that the Mudcat might get more financial contributions if we knew what we were contributing to.

If that is so wrong...

Well make your own decision

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:05 PM

Guest, did you see my second post to this thread? I think it adequately addresses your point.

Carol

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: DougR
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:09 PM

Night Owl: I agree with you up to a point (and I am a professional fund raiser). Many donors prefer to donate to a specific thing or activity but what may be needed most might be operating expenses. Many donors don't like to give to OE because they feel they can't "see" what their money was used for, but they are very necessary.

I suspect Max would accept donations for specific things but also might welcome funds to use at his discretion. That's the basis on which I send donations anyway.

DougR

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:28 PM

You are not TOTALLY misunderstood. Many of us can clearly see what you are.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:40 PM

I can bert!!! It maybe flame or it maybe question, but the point is the same.

As to what the fockin' pissant needledick who started this thread is .... Well, my vote would be for --

RAT BASTARD OF THE WEEK

Take your sanctimonious attitude and your fockin' worthless opinions and stick 'em in your tight ass with a lump of coal. In 24 hours you could have a diamond, you worthless fockin' asswipe.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:49 PM

What are you getting for your money? You get to have your say on this forum thats what. Max is very reluctant to ask for donations for a number of reasons, and, you just added one to the list. All I know is, he has done an outstanding job on this web site, and I, among others, are very grateful. I will continue to send donations to him to help support what I am enjoying right now!

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 06:49 PM

I think CarolC's comment was very wise, and I'd like to repeat it:

Here's a suggestion. Send a PM to Max and ask him what he needs, equipment wise. If he tells you about something that is in a price range that you can consider, then buy it for him and give it to him. Or, you can contribute to the utility expenses by sending money directly to the utility company on behalf of the Mudcat. If you really want to make a financial contribution, I'm sure you can find a way that won't make you feel uncomfortable.

There have been times when some sort of upgrade was needed, and Max has told us it would cost such-and-such an amount. Generally, though, I think most of us feel comfortable just sending Max some money now and then to help defray his costs. Max does this mostly for fun, but I suppose he learns a bit here and there from his experiments with the 'Cat, and he probably makes use of that learning in his business, Onstagemedia.
I've worked with volunteer organizations all my life. As much as possible, I've avoided fundraising, and I've often paid for activities myself instead of resorting to fundraising. It's a royal pain to try to account for funds in any volunteer organization. Whenever you get formal enough that you start collecting money and accounting for funds, there's always suspicion and ill will that arises. I think we're better off to stay where we are, although I think it would be nice if we would all throw a little more beer money Max's way.
I think we're much better off if we think of Max as an Enlightened Despot, a Benevolent Dictator. Throw a little more money at him, and keep him in a good mood.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: dwditty
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:34 PM

Guest, don't call me Shirley! Here's an idea. Why don't we all send some money to Max (Mudcat), and we can all claim credit for whatever it is used for. (With a smirk, but I like this idea. Me first.)

dw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Banjer
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:37 PM

All I was trying to ask by starting this thread, was to understand where my money might be going, and how any contribution might be used.

Your money is going to the address to which you send it, and any contribution is used to keep this site going. End of story!!
Catspaw has already popped his cork, I ain't far behind. We had a neighbor like you one time. She didn't like how we parked our vehicles on our own property, she protested when we painted our house because she didn't think an offwhite was acceptable when others around us were earth tones, our shrubbery didn't meet her approval. You sound like her. Never happy with anything, always going out of your way to bitch about something. I have made several contributions to Max, no earthshaking amount but something I could afford. I am happy with my decisions, may you be happy with what ever you decide to do! I am BANJER....I am not afraid to use my name to state my opinions.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: kendall
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:42 PM

I'd love to have 'spaw for a neighbor.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: dwditty
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:43 PM

Ah yes, good fences make...

dw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Banjer
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:47 PM

Only if these good neighbors remain on their own sides of them....

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: dwditty
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 07:49 PM

I've got a problem. I just made a small donation and it says my credit card statement will say Onstage Media. I just know my wife will think it's a strip club. Oh well, I've got a couple of weeks to come up with a story.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Giac
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:16 PM

For godsake, GUEST, get a grip. Can't you see where the money goes? We have an unbelievable resource literally at our fingertips -- for free. People who are able contribute what they can.

I for one am very grateful to Max, et al (no comments, Spaw), for what must be a very costly and frustrating endeavor.

Giac

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: TonyK
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 08:39 PM

Anonymous passive-aggressive button-pusher.

"I came here for an arguement"
"no you didn't"
"Yes I did"
"No you didn't"

I don't have to play unless I want to. I usually lose when I do.

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 09:08 PM

Let's turn this positive. How about everyone who posted here agreeing to pop a check in the mail. One is on the way, Max. I am overdue for a contribution anyway. Use it for anything you want except a donation to Dubya or the Republican Party...........LOL.

Mick

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 09:17 PM

Not me Mick, I've rarely got any money and I have just gone from being unemployed to student for a while...

I try to do what "A nicer guest" suggests but that is my lot.

Jon

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Big Mick
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 09:21 PM

Hey Jon, you don't need to explain. I have always seen you as one of the most decent, helpful people here. There is no need for you to bare the laundry. Good luck on the studies, and thanks for all you do to be a helpful Mudcatter.

Mick

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 09:49 PM

Still, as you can see, that was really cheap beer Max was drinking tonight. We need to raise his standard of drinking... Can somebody send him some home brew?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: MMario
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 09:59 PM

JOn - time and talent are worth money - and gad knows you've contributed wads of time and talent!

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 10:19 PM

Re: Jon Freeman---- I said it tonight in chat and I'll repeat it here..........

Many of us have come to really enjoy the HearMe song circles. Those wouldn't be happening had Jon not taken the project on and worked through the details. That is payment enough by my thinking for anyone to have made. Thanks again Jon.

Max also brought up a good point on the show. This place is about folk and blues and keeping traditions alive and well. So when you donate time to a school or give an old instrument to a young kid to get them going, or give away a lesson or two, or play at the old folks home, or for 'Special' kids....YOU are donating to the Mudcat. Very profound and great vision for a young little pissant like Max to have. But its true.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 10:27 PM

I have an accounting:
1.Two hours average per day (I am on at work a lot) on the Forum and Digitrad.
2.Met more people of similar interests in three months than a year membership in an an on-line social club. They provided mostly mass murderers and misogynists.
3.Unlimited access to lyrics I previously could only get from a series of aged relatives. And the ranks are thinning.
4. An opportunity to sing anything I want on Hearme. Someone was actually pleased to hear "Boston Burglar". I never sang for anyone before.
5. Selfless expertise from musicians, computer geeks, and would be social workers who care.
6. The encouragement I needed to buy an instrument and learn to play.
I have spent less on the 'Cat than I my daily coffee. Thank you guest. You made me aware that it is time to send in another donation.
Mary

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 10:37 PM

I missed Max saying that on MCR but that is a great vision!

Jon

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: GUEST,Big Mick
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 10:49 PM

Guest,I am sorry for my rude remarks. I do believe you have a right to express yourself as you wish in this forum. Nothing you have said has been rude!

Mick did NOT make this posting - Bert

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:12 PM

........uh, lose your cookie all of a sudden Mick? Or has this been posted from another part of the country?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: SeanM
Date: 23 Aug 00 - 11:42 PM

Lazy, lazy Fake "Guest, Big Mick". Study your targets.

The least you could have done is made reference to Allison or some such. *sigh* Parody is SUCH a lost art these days.

Hey, how 'bout we finish this entire thing with "Give however much you are comfortable with, be it money, time spent answering questions, listening to the Mudcat Radio, participating in HearMe or what have you".

Take only joy, leave only what you'd have others leave for you.

M

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 12:19 AM

Nice try, Sean, but I have to mention, since Joe put out a call for home brew that

MY SON TOOK FOURTH PLACE IN THE KENTUCKY STATE FAIR HOME BREW CONTEST ON HIS FIRST TRY EVER!!!

proudMamaKat

Subject: RE: Can we have some Mudcat accounts?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 01:02 AM

I subscribe because it's great value for my dollar. There's fine music conversation, with a couple of old-fart resident curmudgeons, some very nice people with helpful suggestions, a couple of opinionated young folks who remind me of my own kids, serious musicians who share their expertise, and a shitload of song lyrics. You won't get that with a magazine subscription. Plus, I get to see my name in print.
All the best. Seamus