Songs about Genocides and Massacres

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 11:29 AM

The songs that most interest me are contemporaneous and near contemporaneous accounts, people who write long after the fact tend to generalize, often from heresay,and put their own spin on the stories, reflecting the judgements and prejudices of their own time, and of course, they lack the critical details--

On the subject of lynching ballads--hangings and public executions were always the subject of broadsides, which were sold to all the curious who gathered--we tend to forget that hangings used to be public events, which the whole family would attend, and broadsiders did a brisk business, as did entertainers, food vendors, and of course, pickpockets.

The authorities went to great trouble to convey the guilt of the condemned, for the simple and expedient reason that if the crowds that gathered for the execution believed that an injustice was being done, the crowd could turn on them-- They tended to act swiftly and harshly toward individuals that tried to turn the crowds against them with dissenting opinions--

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 11:29 AM

The songs that most interest me are contemporaneous and near contemporaneous accounts, people who write long after the fact tend to generalize, often from heresay,and put their own spin on the stories, reflecting the judgements and prejudices of their own time, and of course, they lack the critical details--

On the subject of lynching ballads--hangings and public executions were always the subject of broadsides, which were sold to all the curious who gathered--we tend to forget that hangings used to be public events, which the whole family would attend, and broadsiders did a brisk business, as did entertainers, food vendors, and of course, pickpockets.

The authorities went to great trouble to convey the guilt of the condemned, for the simple and expedient reason that if the crowds that gathered for the execution believed that an injustice was being done, the crowd could turn on them-- They tended to act swiftly and harshly toward individuals that tried to turn the crowds against them with dissenting opinions--

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: bigchuck
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 06:43 PM

Cowboy Celtic has a song to the tune of Garry Owen with the refrain "Custer died a'running". Also Bob Gibson's "St. Clair's Defeat" is a good post revolutionary war song. Vermont songwriter Dick McCormack wrote a fine song about the Deerfield Raid in pre-revolutionary Vermont.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Kim C
Date: 29 Aug 00 - 04:43 PM

Naemanson, that was priceless.

Downeast Bob, while Strange Fruit mentions the gallant south, I have to point out that the South was not the only place where lynchings happened. During the rebirth of the KKK in the 1920s, their largest membership was in the state of Indiana, and lynchings happened there too. (Saw a PBS documentary about the state of affairs in Marion, IN, some time ago.) Mister was born in Indiana in 1955, and remembers Jim Crow very well, although many people tend to believe that Mr. Crow only lived below the Mason-Dixon line. But of course, history is written by the victors, and the South lost.

If war songs count, the Battle of Shiloh's Hill is a good one.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: GUEST,Abby(don't know what keeps hapening to the c
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 06:29 PM

Downeast Bob: Another example of who writes the history. I have an interesting monograph by Bruce E. Baker lying around on traditional lynching ballads. It's odd to the author but he was unable to locate anything by blacks. He looked. The history transmited in these songs was surprisingly accurate - the perspective, however, was just as you'd expect. Completely justified actions against brutal killers.

Subject: Lyr Add: GEORGE JACKSON (Dylan)^^
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 12:34 PM

GEORGE JACKSON

I woke up this morning, there were tears in my bed
They killed a man I really loved, shot him through the head
Lord, Lord, they cut George Jackson down
Lord, Lord, they laid him in the ground

He wouldn't take shit from no one, he wouldn't bow down or kneel
The authorities, they hated him, cos he was just too real
Lord, Lord, they cut George Jackson down
Lord, Lord, they laid him in the ground

The prison guards they cursed him as they watched him from above
But they were frightened of his power, they were scared of his love
Lord, Lord, so they cut George Jackson down
Lord, Lord, they laid him in the ground

Sometimes I think this whole world is one big prison yard
Some of us are prisoners, some of us are guards
Lord, Lord, they cut George Jackson down
Lord, Lord, they laid him in the ground

- by Bob Dylan

And how many more have died, without a song, without a spoken word? They die in China every day, while it's business as usual.

Subject: Lyr Add: ANOTHER JOURNEY BY TRAIN (Roger Gall)
From: The Shambles
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 03:58 AM

The song is an account of a UK Channel 4 TV programme, from which the song gets its title. It was the story of four young 'Neo-Nazis', from different European countries, taken on a train journey through Europe. During which they met a number of Holocaust survivors and ended up at Auschwitz.

You may have thought that this would have changed their views a little, but unfortunately, this did not happen. It is a song to be sung to these four and. unfortunately many others.

ANOTHER JOURNEY BY TRAIN

You enter the 'Gates of Hell', and you deny the fires
Stand among the ghosts of thousands, who you brand as liars
Why do you deny it, for you know the truth inside?
It's not a matter of opinion, how these people died

Heads of stone
Hearts of ice
It's only the truth you sacrifice

Five men on the corner, oh how it tears my heart
Alone with his memories, the old man stands apart
You refuse to hear him, for "he doesn't count", you say
Builders of the 'New Tomorrow', does the past get in your way?

Hearts of ice
Heads of stone
So many people, so far from home

One small lady and four big men, a brave thing to do?
A survivor of the 'real thing', what does she have to fear from you?
In the shadow of the tower, she shows you her tattoo
And you have the nerve to tell her, you're now the persecuted few?

Heads of stone
Hearts of ice
It's only the truth you sacrifice

Some of you don't understand, but some understand so well
Frozen hearts will seize your granite minds if you fall under their spell
The world goes through its changes, but some things stay the same
When you know, you can't be wrong, you'll find someone else to blame

Hearts of ice
Heads of stone
So many people, so far from home

Heads of stone
Hearts of ice
It's only the truth you sacrifice

Roger Gall 1995

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 01:04 AM

Good one, Troll, there is a song in the DT, "The Price of Freedom" about Haymarket

There's another one which says it is reminiscent of the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire, that is the Granite Mill Fire where everyone was locked and burnt to death in Fall River, MA.

I have been to Ft. Fetterman and the site of the Wagon Box Fight. I felt and heard the Ancestors at both places...very mournful on both sides. (No explanation necessary, please. Thanks.)

kat

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Troll
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 12:32 AM

The Dade Massacre by will Mclean
Tsali, Standing Bear, and Vitachuko by Don Grooms
These are songs by Florida songwriters-both now deceased- that inspired me to try to write.

Are there any songs about the Triangle Shirtwaist Fire or the Haymarket Massacre or the draft riots in New York during the Civil War?

troll

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Aug 00 - 12:18 AM

Interesting stuff, richr. It shows how much attitudes have changed in the last 130 years or so.

I think the last one, about the "bold chief at the head of the band" my refer to the Hay Field Fight or the Wagon Box Fight, during Red Cloud's War with the US Army in 1867. In both of those engagements, several hundred Indians attacked a much smaller group of white soldiers and civilians. The whites, however, were armed with a brand new rife, the breech-loading, fast firing Springfield...and they were well prepared in defensive positions. The Springfield rifles enabled them to lay down a volume of fire that decimated the ranks of the charging warriors, who had never fought against such rifles before. Both attacks were bloodily repulsed, much to the dismay of the Cheyenne and the Lakota, and some great warriors fell that day.

The Indians were not able to repeat their earlier successes, such as the Fetterman massacre (the "Battle of the Hundred Slain") where they had wiped out Captain Fetterman's column of 80 men with minor losses. (There have got to be some songs and poetry about that one too.)

Red Cloud still managed to win his war, however, by a very skillful guerilla campaign, and the US Army was forced by treaty to abandon the Powder River country, and all of their forts there. Little Wolf of the Cheyennes was given the special honour of burning Fort Phil Kearney to the ground after its evacuation. Fort C.F. Smith was burned down by Red Cloud's warriors.

The treaty that was signed would soon be broken, and the US Army would soon be back, but for a brief time the Lakota and Cheyenne were in their glory. It was a victory which will not be forgotten by those who care to remember.

- Little Hawk

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: paddymac
Date: 27 Aug 00 - 11:46 PM

There are many songs come to mind from the starvation of the Irish people resulting from manipulation the failure of the potato crops in 1845-7. The one that has always struck me as most poignant is "Skibereen". There have been several mentiond here that I had not been previously exposed to, and describing events I was unaware of. The learning experience that is Mudcat is truly a marvelous thing. Thanks to all.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 11:51 PM

richr, thanks for posting all of those, particularly the last. When I took Wyoming History in college, from a well-known Western writer, Bill Bragg, now-deceased, I wrote my final paper on the Ghost Dance Religion and was very proud that the person I respected so much, gave me an "A!" Living here, in Wyoming, at the time, I was able to access books published in that time period, for research. It was very interesting and equally so to read a song by an eyewitness such as you've posted.

Thanks, again,

kat

Subject: Lyr Add: THE BATTLE OF PEA RIDGE + SIOUX INDIANS
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 11:45 PM

THE BATTLE OF PEA RIDGE

It was on March the Seventh in the year of sixty-two
We had a sore engagement with Abe Lincoln's crew
Van Dorn was our commander as you remember be
We lost ten thousand of our men near the Indian Territory

Pap Price come a-riding up the line, his horse was in a pace
And as he gave the word "retreat" the tears rolled down his face
Ten thousand deaths I'd rather die than they should gain the field
From that he got a fatal shot which caused him to yield

At Springfield and Carthage many a hero fell
At Lexington and Drywood, as near the truth can tell
But such an utter carnage as ever I did see
Happened at old Pea Ridge near the Indian Territory

I know you brave Missouri boys were never yet afraid
Let's try and form in order, retreat the best we can
The word "retreat" was passed around, it caused the heathen cry
Helter-skelter through the woods, like lost sheep we did fly

(this one I think is in the DT
The Sioux Indians

We shot the bold chief at the head of the band
He died like a warrior with a bow in his hand
And when they saw the bold chief lay dead in his gore
They hooped & they yelled & we saw them no more

In our little band there was just 24
And of the Sioux Indians 500 or more
We fought them with courage & spoke not a word
And the hoop of Sioux Indians was all could be heard

Barry

Subject: Lyr Add: THE INDIAN GHOST DANCE AND WAR^^
From: raredance
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 10:12 PM

Here's one more about the soldiers and the Indians. The messianic, anti-white ghost dance fervor swept through a segment of the Sioux population in the Dakota Territory in 1890. Adherents believed that their shirts could acquire magical powers and deflect the soldiers bullets. It proved to be a regrettable error in judgement. Sitting Bull was coaxed out of "retirement" in Canada, only to be killed (perhaps murdered) in a fracas with Indian police. Another chief Yellow Bird perpetuated the movement. It all came to a violent end on December 29, 1890 when 200 or so Indians were machine-gunned and left in the snow by US soldiers along a stretch of Wounded Knee Creek in South Dakota. Some time later the frozen bodies were dumped in a mass grave. I think that here is a strong desire by most people to believe activities that they engage in serve a greater good. Most people don't want to admit that they have participated in something heinous and without purpose. Guilt can be avoided if the opponent is considered less than human. In modern parlance you need to put "spin" on your view of events as they happened, in this case massive spin was necessary. W. H. Prather was a private in the 9th US Cavalry. He also happened to be black. He penned his view of the events of Wounded Knee with the idea that they would be passed out to the soldiers in the campaign. The lyric was printed in the Bureau of American Ethnology, 14th Annual Report (1892-93). Bob Dylan was much more succinct; "the cavalry charged, and the Indians died"

THE INDIAN GHOST DANCE AND WAR by Pvt. W. H. Prather

The Red Skins left their Agency, the Soldiers left their Post,
All on the strength of an Indian tale about Messiah's ghost
Got up by savage chieftains to lead their tribes astray;
But Uncle Sam wouldn't have it so, for he ain't built that way.
They swore that this Messiah came to them in visions sleep
And promised to restore their game and Buffalos a heap,
So they must start a big ghost dance, then all would join their band,
And may be so we lead the way into the great Bad Land.

Chorus:
They claimed the shirt Messiah gave, no bullet could go through;
But when the Soldiers fired at them, the saw this was not true,
The Medicine man supplied them with their great Messiah's grace;
And he, too, pulled his freight and swore the 7th hard to face.

About their tents the Soldiers stood, awaiting one and all,
That they might hear the trumpet clear when sounding General call,
Or Boots and Saddels in a rush, that each and every man
Might mount in haste, ride soon and fast to stop this devilish band;
But Generals great like Miles and Brooke don't do things up that way,
For they know an Indian like a book, and let him have his way
Until they think him far enough and then to John they'll say,
"You had better stop your fooling or we'll bring our guns to play.

The 9th marched our with splendid cheer the Bad Lands to explo'e--
With Col. Henry at their head, they never fear the foe;
So on they rode from Christmas eve 'till dawn of Christmas day;
The Red Skins heard the 9th was near and fled in great dismay.
The 7th is of courage bold, both officers and men;
But bad luck seems to follow them and twice has took them in.
They came in contact with Big Foot's warriors in their fierce might;
This chief made sure he had a chance of vantage in the fight.

A fight took place; 'twas hand to hand, unwarned by trumpet call.
While the Sioux were dropping man by man, the 7th killed them all.
And to that regiment be said, "Ye noble braves, well done.
Although you lost some gallant men, a glorious fight you've won."
The 8th was there, the 6th rode miles to swell that great command.
And waited orders night and day to round up Short Bull's band.
The Infantry marched up in mass the Cavalry's support,
And while the latter rounded up, the former held the fort.

E battery of the 1st stood by and did their duty well,
For every time the Hotchkiss barked, the say a hostile fell.
Some Indian soldiers shipped in too and helped to quell the fray,
And now the campaign's ended and the soldiers marched away.
So all have done their share, you see, whether it was thick or thin,
An all helped break the ghost dance up and drive the hostiles in.
The settlers in that region now can breathe with better grace;
They only ask and pray to God to make John hold his base.

rich r

Subject: Lyr Add: GENERAL CUSTER^^
From: raredance
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 10:04 PM

Can a song about a massacre ever be funny? Maybe only with a hundred years separation from the real event. This Tom Paxton gem was written late in the Viet Nam era when "the light at the end of the tunnel" phrase had been so over used it had become self parody.

GENERAL CUSTER
by Tom Paxton recorded on "How Come The Sun"

General Custer told me, we're going for a ride
Out along the Big Horn River, where the water is deep and wide.
Soon as I get my hair done, we will win the war;
Now go on out and tell the boys what they are fighting for.

Chorus:
He said, "Give somebody a medal.
Give somebody a three day pass.
Tell him 'bout a light at the end of the tunnel,
And tell him to hold his sass.
And pass me my lookin' glass."

Out in the buffalo moonlight, I thought I heard a bird.
One old Indian fighter went pale, said, "What was that I heard?"
Sixteen thousand nightengales stomping through the pass.
Tell that idiot matinee fool to get us out and fast.

Chorus:
But he yelled....

Dawn came up like taxes and what do suppose I see,
Every Indian in history, a-tapping his toes at me.
Things was lookin' shakey, some of them boys was large;
And what do s'pose old Custer done, you know he hollered, "Charge!"
Nobody told the Indians who old Custer was,
They commenced to stick to us like peaches stick to fuzz.
Nobody told the Indians they was supposed to run;
And just as they did old Custer in, what do s'pose he done

Chorus:
He said....

rich r

Subject: Lyr Add: CUSTER'S LAST CHARGE^^
From: raredance
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 09:56 PM

Well here is one take on this episode of massacre history

CUSTER'S LAST CHARGE (from Lingenfelter et al.)

Across the Big Horn's crystal tide, against the savage Sioux,
A little band of soldiers charged, three hundred boys in blue.
In front rode blond-haired Custer bold, pet of the wild frontier,
A hero of a hundred fights, his deeds known far and near.

"Charge, comrades, charge! There's death ahead, disgrace lurks in our rear!
Drive rowels deep! Come on, come on!" came his yells with ringing cheer.
And on the foe those heroes charged. There rose an awful yell:
It seemed as though those soldiers stormed the lowest gates of hell.

Three hundred rifles rattled forth, and torn was human form.
The black smoke rose in rolling waves above the leaden storm.
The death groans of the dying braves, their wounded piercing cries,
The hurling of the arrows fleet did cloud the noonday skies.

The snorting steed with shrieks of fright, the firearms' deafening roar,
The war song sung by the dying braves who fell to rise no more;
O'er hill and dale the war song waved 'round craggy mountainside.
Along down death's dark valley ran a cruel crimson tide.

Our blond-haired chief was everywhere 'mid showers of hurling lead.
The starry banner waved above the dying and the dead.
With bridle rein in firm-set teeth, revolver in each hand,
He hoped with his few gallant boys to quell the great Sioux band.

Again they charged: three thousand guns poured forth their last-sent ball;
Three thousand war whoops rent the air; Gallant Custer then did fall;
And all around where Custer fell ran pools and streams of gore,
Heaped bodies both red and white whose last great fight was o'er.

The boys in blue and their savage foe lay huddled in one mass.
Their life's blood ran a trickling through the trampled prairie grass
While fiendish yells did rend the air, and then a sudden hush,
While cries of anguish rise again as on the mad Sioux rush.

O'er those strewn and bloodstained fields those goading redskins fly.
Our gang went down three hundred souls, three hundred doomed to die.
Those blood-drunk braves sprang on the dead and wounded boys in blue;
Three hundred bleeding scalps ran high above the fiendish crew.

Then night came on with sable veil and his those sights from view;
The Big Horn's crystal tide was red as she wound her valleys through;
And quickly from the fields of slain, those gloating redskins fled,
But blond-haired Custer held the field, a hero with his dead

rich r

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: raredance
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 06:03 PM

The massacre of a wagon train of people by Mormons, Indians, an likely some Mormons dressed as Indians took place at Mountain Meadows in southern Utah in September of 1857. About 140 members of the wagon train were killed and only about 17 very young children were spared. The song that relates the inciddent is "The Mountain Meadows Massacre" and it is in the DT. According to Lingenfelter the text may have originated as a broadside called "The Utah Horror!" published in San Francisco around 1875-77.

rich r

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 12:33 AM

Yes, let the burning times not be forgotten. Nor shall we forget Medgar Evers, Martin Luther King, and the others who fell.

"The day Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught, they lowered him down as a king, but when the shadowy sun sets on the one that fired the gun, you'll see by his grave, carved next to his name, on the stone that remains, his epitaph plain: only a pawn in their game" Bob Dylan

Subject: Lyr Add: STRANGE FRUIT^^^
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 12:13 AM

We don't hear much these days about the thousands of black people who were killed by lynch mobs in the south throughout the first half of the 20th century.

STRANGE FRUIT recorded by Billie Holiday; also by Josh White

Southern trees bear a strange fruit, Blood on the leaves and blood at the root Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.

Pastoral scene of the gallant South The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth Scent of magnolia sweet and fresh And the sudden smell of burning flesh.

Here is a fruit for the crows to pluck For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop Here is a strange and bitter crop.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Troll
Date: 26 Aug 00 - 12:12 AM

You Will Burn recorded by Steeleye Span. Sorry. I don't remember which album but it's one of the later ones.

MTed: It's about the middle ages. I think. But modern.

troll

Subject: Lyr Add: WE JUST SAY NO (Isaac Bonewits)
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 11:55 PM

We Just Say, "No!"
[2nd Person version]
© 1988, 1999
words and music by Isaac Bonewits
Key of C

Oh you've burned us and you've raped us.
You've torn us limb from limb.
In your hands a bloody weapon,
on your lips a pretty hymn.
You thought that you could silence us,
make the fires of freedom dim.
But --

We say "No!" (we say "No!")
We just say "No!" (we say "No!")
We say, "Never again the Burning!
Never again the Burning!
"Never again the Burning -- No!"

You use every weapon that you can:
sword or gun or nuke.
And you think that our survival
was nothin' but a fluke,
While you dipped your hands in blood and gore
enough to make Christ puke!
But --

chorus

You go out after scapegoats
to terrify your flock ("baaa")
By showin' what will happen
if they your plans should block
For world domination
by gun and gold and clock.
But--

Chorus

Every kind and decent human being
who walks upon the Earth
Is a target for your hatred
of love and hope and mirth.
And you'll do your bloody best to kill
the New Age that's in birth.
But --

We know that you are losing,
we know you know it too.
You fundamentalists are desperate
Christian, Moslem, Jew.
And you'd love to slaughter all of us,
but we're no longer few!
And --

We know that you will try to start
the final holocaust.
You'd rather blow up all the world
than to admit you've lost.
But we are goin' to stop you,
no matter what the cost!
'Cause --

Subject: Lyr Add: BURNING TIMES
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 11:47 PM

BURNING TIMES

Isis
Astarte
Diana
Hecate
Demeter
Kali
Inanna

Pan
Poseidon
Dionysus
Kernunnos
Mithras
Loki
Apollo

In the cool of evening
They used to gather
'Neath the stars in the meadow
Circle near an old Oak tree
At the times appointed by the seasons
And the phases of the Moon
Near the center of them
There stood a woman
Equal with the others
But respected for their work
One of the many we call the Witches
The healers and the teachers
Of the powers of the Earth
The people grew from the knowledge she gave them
Herbs to heal their bodies
Spells to make their spirits whole
Hear them chanting
Healing incantations
Calling forth the Wise Ones
Celebrating in dance and song

(Repeat chant of names)

There were those that came to power
Through Domination
And they bounded in the worship
Of a dead man on a cross
They sought control
Of the common people
By demanding allegiance
To the church of Rome
And the Pope declared the Inquisition
It was a war against the Witches
Whose powers they had feared
It was all a cause
Against the Nature People
Nine million European women died
And the tales were told of those
Who by the hundreds holding together
Choose their death in the sea
Chanting the praises of the Mother Goddess
A refusal of betrayal
People were dying to be free

(Repeat chant of names)

Now the Earth is a Witch
And the men still burn Her
Stripping Her down with mining
And the poisons of their wars
But to us the Earth is a healer
Our teacher, our Mother
She spins a web of life
That keeps us all alive
She gives us the visions
To see through the chaos
She gives us the courage
It is our will to survive

(Repeat names)

BURNING TIMES

The songs are sung to rouse our anger
Of martyred witches gone to the fire

But what is served by righteous singing
When all we do is stew in our ire?
Nine million dead in four hundred years
More in that time simply died of disease.
Why do we dwell on long-passed dead
When we are alive in times like these?

Rise up, Witches, throw off your masks
And cease crying guilt for ancient crimes;
Earth and all her children need us,
For all face now the Burning Times.

In the face of that hostile power,
How did the old knowledge stay alive?
How do we have a Craft to practise?
Our ancestors knew how to fight and survive!
How do we honour our blessed dead?
Slavery threatens all but the few!
We must teach their cunning ways;
Everyone needs the skills they knew.

Rise up, Witches, gather your strength,
And let your power spread and climb;
Earth and all her children need us,
For all face now the Burning Times.

I'll not cast off science's works
Witches all forces to Will can bend.
I'll not accuse, for war and waste,
Some patriarchy of faceless Men.
Men do not cast the only votes;
Women alone do not demonstrate.
Rather than shut out half the race,
Who, if not we, will change that state?

Rise up, Witches, gather your strength,
And let your power spread and climb;
Earth and all her children need us,
For all face now the Burning Times.

I will not blame a Father's Church --
Blame and guilt are Their tools, not mine.
And even in the shuls and churches
Allies there will I seek and find!
I will not answer hate with fear;
Nor with a smug, cheek-turning love;
I will not answer hate with rage;
By strength alone will I not be moved!

Rise up, Witches, gather your strength,
And let your power spread and climb;
Earth and all her children need us,
For all face now the Burning Times.

I will not hide in my sacred grove --
The factories and cities yet ring me about.
I will not climb my ivory tower --
The real world exists though I shut it out.
I will not work for Church nor State
Who serve themselves while they serve us lies.
Nor only for my Witchen kin
But for the family of all alive!

Rise up, Witches, gather your strength,
And let your power spread and climb;
Earth and all her children need us,
For all face now the Burning Times.

So if rebellion means to fight
A State lost sight of why it was built,
If heresy's to reject a Church
That rules with force or fear or guilt,
Then let us all be rebels proud,
And shameless heretics by creed!
A tyrant's hand subjects the Earth
More heretic rebels are what She needs!

Rise up, Witches, gather your strength,
And let your power spread and climb;
Earth and all her children need us,
For all face now the Burning Times.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: sophocleese
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:06 PM

M.Ted there is a modern song about the witch massacres. I used to have a Roy Bailey record with him doing it. The song has a chanted chorus bit that goes Isis, Astarte (brain dead!, can't remember). It was very compelling.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: paddymac
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 11:05 AM

Off the cuff, here, but there's a song called (i think) "The Quince Brigada" about the international volunteer brigade that fought againt Franco. Seems like it ought to fit within this topic. Might also consider "The Peatbog Soldiers", on which we've had a couple of threads (at least).

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:39 AM

Naemanson - Wow! What a quote. I will remember that one. It deserves to be printed again:

"History is written by the victors.

Folk music is written by the survivors."

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:16 AM

M.Ted,
look here for a collection of songs about the holocaust (thanks to Joe Offer who pointed me to this site in the Tsen Brider thread).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Roo
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:02 AM

There is a contemporary song about the Myall Creek Massacre in NSW - 1838 I think it was (the massacre, not the song!)

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 10:00 AM

This is going pretty well--please keep posting things--There is a good site with the details of the Glencoe Massacre but I haven't bad time to look for it--

I never said anything about restricting discussion--in fact, this started because of the thread about someone else trying to restrict discussion--

No one has posted anything related to the Nazi Holocaust--and I am very curious if anybody knows of anything related to the middle ages massacres of "witches"?

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Wolfgang
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:53 AM

"Remember the war against Franco?
That's the kind where each of us belongs.
Though he may have won all the battles,
We had all the good songs."
Tom Lehrer (copied and pasted by Wolfgang)

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Naemanson
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 09:47 AM

History is written by the victors.

Folk music is written by the survivors.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 01:06 AM

I wonder if Yotha Yindi have any, MCB?

Don! Thanks for reminding me about that deal in Utah. we had a little bit of discussion about that before I went to see my dad last October..I'll see if I can dig up the info he told me on it and ask if he's ever heard the song.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Marcus Campus Bellorum
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:59 AM

Lots of massacres occured down here in OZ. Much more recent than Culloden or Glencoe (to my knowledge)[yes I am a Campbell and I dont know the date of Glencoe].

It is interesting few Australian massacre (none perhaps) songs have survived.

The peoples that were subject to the massacres, then to assimilation, and who are now negotiating reconciliation in a politically unfavourable environment have survived however. How many tens of thousands of years?

Anyone know of any Aboriginal songs about the attrocities of the last century and the century preceeding it??

Is history and folk music written by the victors???

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: DonMeixner
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:44 AM

Recently on NPR a song about a Massacre of gentile settlers by Mormons in Utah during the mid years of the 1800's was performed. The massacre is largely unheard of by many people and largely denied or ignored by the Mormons. Rhe song that was played was a scratchy recording from the Library of Congress.

Don

Subject: Lyr Add: NO MORE GENOCIDE (Holly Near)^^
From: Marymac90
Date: 25 Aug 00 - 12:19 AM

Holly Near's "NO MORE GENOCIDE" dates from the Viet Nam war era. The chorus is done very powerfully. She recorded it on one of her first albums, "hang in there", and also on "Lifeline", recorded with Ronnie Gilbert.

Why do we call them the enemy
This struggling nation that's won independence across the sea?
Why do we want these people to die?
Why do we say North and South, why o why o why?

Chorus: Well that's just a lie!
One of the many and we've had plenty
I don't want more of the same
No more genocide in my name!

Why are our history books so full of lies
When no word is spoken of why the Indian dies and dies?
Or that the Chicano love the California land
Do our books all say it was discovered by one white man?

Why are the weapons of war so young?
Why are there only rich ones around when it's done?
Why are so many of our soldiers black or brown?
Do we think it's because they're good at cutting other people down?

Why do we support a colony
When the Puerto Rican people are crying out to be free?
We sterilize the women and rob the copper mines
Do we think people will always be so blind?

Nazi forces grow again, ignorance gives them a place
The Klan is teaching children to hate the human race
Where once was a playground, stands an MX missile plant
Do they think it's fun to see just how much we can stand?

Mary McCaffrey

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Chicky
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 11:18 PM

Four Green Fields by Tommy Makem

Cheers
- Chicky

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 09:29 PM

Midchuck - Absolutely. There were plenty of massacres of white folks by Indians and of Indians by Indians, and of Mexicans by Indians and vice versa.

I am reminded of General Crook's argument with Geronimo. "You killed men, women, and children," he said.

"So did you!" retorted Geronimo. "In war bad things happen." Then Geronimo said, "But tell me one thing...why do the whites want ALL the land?" Crook could not answer that. The answer would have shamed him.

In general the Indians were inclined to help the whites upon their first arrival on these shores. The wars that later arose were largely due to the unlimimited desire of the whites to take over ALL the land, cut down virtually all the trees, and slaughter virtually all the wildlife. In those wars atrocities were committed by all combatants, red and white alike.

No one can claim to have a totally clean slate. So mention whatever massacre you like.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 09:23 PM

Sorcha: of course! I tongue-stumbled. I never even noticed it until I read your post! Thank you. horse of the appaloosa? mumble, mumble...Ebbie

Subject: Lyr Add (Partial): CRIMSON PARSONS
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 09:15 PM

CRIMSON PARSONS

by Keith Secola, based on a song by Peter LaFarge
© 1992 AKINA

They called him the Crimson Parson
The Reverend Shivington
The history books don't recommend him
For all the trouble he begun
(???,) take down Indians, old and young
Was his battle cry
The Reverend Colonel Shivington
With his Bible by his side.

In the valley of the Sand Creek
Lived a peaceful tribe
Shivington knew them for their peace
But glory was his pride
In the middle of the night,
They fell upon a place, The ??? his victory dance in disgrace
The Reverend Colonel Shivington
With a long knife by his side.

All the way out to Sitting Bull
They told their mournful tale
Warpaths smoked as they haven't smoked
Since they cut the Oregon Trail
The next twelve years Indian wars
Scattered about the land
The Reverend Colonel Shivington
Did it all with his little band.

Repeat first verse

Sorry, I can't make out some of the words. I will see if I can get them clarified and post the corrections.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Elise
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 07:39 PM

Alright, I can't stand it (can't believe someone didn't beat me to it!) The Alice's Restauraunt Masacree. So there. Someone even mentioned a Guthrie and didn't say it!

Sorry...don't hurt me...couldn't help it!

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 07:05 PM

Ebbie, you mean Heart of the Appaloosa?

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 06:54 PM

"Custer Died for Your Sins" done by Floyd Red Crow Westerman based on Vine Deloria's book of the same name.

M. Ted said, "genocide is being discussed... there are a lot of songs out there, in many languages, perhaps, that document these things--list your favorites here, and post lyrics or links, if you can--Lest we forget--"

I don't read any restrictions in that, nor have I ever seen any Mudcatters stick any percieved *rules*, anyway!

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Midchuck
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 06:37 PM

Are we allowed to mention massacres of Europeans by Ind...I mean, Native Americans? Or does political correctness require that we deny that they ever happened?

Peter.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: The Shambles
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 06:10 PM

They Were Only Children

Subject: Lyr Add: ON THE ROAD FROM SREBRENICA (Paxton)^^
From: Amergin
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:39 PM

On The Road From Srebrenica
Tom Paxton

On the road from Srebrenica
I saw a woman with two babies and one broken arm
She could only carry one
And one would have to stay behind to quickly die
The gunmen shouted orders
And the woman moved quickly down the road
While the baby in the blanket
Lying in the muddy ditch began to cry

Chorus:
On the road, on the road from Srebrenica
Blackbirds fly, blackbirds flying overhead
Cry: "No Mercy!"
On the road from Srebrenica
Where there's no one left alive to count the dead

On the road from Srebrenica
I saw the men all pulled aside and marched away
While their women screamed in terror
All the men went down the pathway to the trees
The sound of guns was muffled by the forest
But the shots went on and on
Then the soldiers pushed the women to keep them moving
And the rain began to freeze

Chorus:

On the road from Srebrenica
I saw an old man who was bent and stooped and frail
It seemed all hope was gone
I thought he'd never make a mile
But I was wrong
He seemed to have no spirit
Til he passed the ditch and heard the baby cry
He picked the baby up
And in the swirling smoke and flames he moved along

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 04:35 PM

Horse of the Appaloosa

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: GUEST,Bruce O.
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 03:40 PM

Laws' B19 in DT, the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 03:01 PM

Woody Guthrie's "1913 Massacre". Not on the same scale as the genocide that's discussed in the other thread, but a good, heartfelt song just the same.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 02:59 PM

Don't forget lyrics and links, if you can find them--

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 02:34 PM

Buffy Sainte Marie - "My Country 'Tis of Thy People You're Dying"

It's probably the most harrowing protest song ever written, and among other things mentions the occasion on which the US Army traded blankets to some starving Native Americans for their land, said blankets having been taken of dying soldiers in a smallpox ward. That's what you call killing 2 birds with one stone.

Also, "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee", also by Buffy Sainte-Marie, about much more recent events.

Subject: RE: Songs about Genocides and Massacres
From: Mbo
Date: 24 Aug 00 - 02:05 PM

Culloden's Harvest.