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Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy? / Winin' Boy Blues

Gomez 30 Aug 00 - 07:12 AM
dwditty 30 Aug 00 - 07:35 AM
Wolfgang 30 Aug 00 - 07:42 AM
Gomez 30 Aug 00 - 07:47 AM
GUEST,Ian M. 30 Aug 00 - 08:19 AM
okthen 30 Aug 00 - 08:28 AM
Gomez 30 Aug 00 - 09:31 AM
Gomez 30 Aug 00 - 09:52 AM
Giac 30 Aug 00 - 10:30 AM
Wally Macnow 30 Aug 00 - 07:13 PM
Giac 30 Aug 00 - 07:23 PM
GUEST,Allan S. 30 Aug 00 - 08:35 PM
Amos 30 Aug 00 - 10:18 PM
Wally Macnow 31 Aug 00 - 12:50 AM
BanjoRay 31 Aug 00 - 06:34 AM
LR Mole 31 Aug 00 - 10:47 AM
Uncle_DaveO 31 Aug 00 - 03:49 PM
Gomez 31 Aug 00 - 07:22 PM
dwditty 31 Aug 00 - 07:41 PM
Giac 31 Aug 00 - 08:17 PM
GUEST,Ian M. 04 Sep 00 - 04:31 PM
Frankham 05 Sep 00 - 03:38 PM
Morticia 17 Sep 00 - 05:53 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Dec 05 - 08:49 PM
Terry K 15 Dec 05 - 10:59 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 15 Dec 05 - 12:38 PM
Jim Dixon 18 Dec 05 - 10:06 PM
Big Al Whittle 19 Dec 05 - 02:27 AM
Lancashire Lad 19 Dec 05 - 04:00 PM
Big Al Whittle 27 Dec 05 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,Allan S 27 Dec 05 - 08:21 PM
Big Al Whittle 28 Dec 05 - 07:29 AM
Chris in Wheaton 28 Dec 05 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,allanS. 28 Dec 05 - 02:19 PM
GUEST 09 Nov 15 - 12:27 PM
Amos 09 Nov 15 - 05:17 PM
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Subject: Winding Boy?
From: Gomez
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:12 AM

Does anyone know of this song? I can't be sure of any of the info below but I was under the impression that it was an old classic folk/blues song. I did try all the phrases below in the DT search box - without success. contains phrases like: starts with "I'm just a winding boy.. don't deny my name" also "hey momma momma.. take a look at sis.. she's down on the levy doin the double twist" also "hey moma moma won't you look at her now.. trying to be a fat girl needs me to show her how"

First heard on album by John Martyn - The Tumbler heard it twice in folk-clubs since.

most grateful for any help - Gomez


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: dwditty
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:35 AM

I believe you are thinking of Jelly Roll Morton's Winin' Boy. I don't have the lyrics, but this could be one of the dirtiest (way beyond bawdy, Bert) songs ever recorded.

dw


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:42 AM

Winin' Boy

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Gomez
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:47 AM

many thanks dwditty. no wonder i couldn't find it. it's probbly been banned.. now i must have it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: GUEST,Ian M.
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 08:19 AM

George Melly (not surprisingly) has also recorded this. I will check which LP when I get home from work.


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: okthen
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 08:28 AM

i think i've also heard this as "wine an' board" being about someone so low down not even the cheapest of boarding house wpuld allow him entry. however this may be a totaly different song

cheers

bill


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Gomez
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:31 AM

many thanks dwditty. no wonder i couldn't find it. it's probbly been outlawed.. now i must have it!


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Gomez
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 09:52 AM

thanks to all. now i know what it is i can go looking for the recordings. dwditty - didn't mean to patronise you. second posting was a boob. i expect one thankyou is probbly enough?

gomez


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Giac
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 10:30 AM

See previous thread on this:

Clicky


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Wally Macnow
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:13 PM

Is this the same Windin' Boy that Geoff Muldauer recorded on Prestige's "Blues Project" album?

Wally Macnow


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Giac
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 07:23 PM

You're probably right, Wally, I haven't heard the album since it went up in smoke in the early 70s, so it could well have been Geoff Muldaur and not Mark Spoelstra. Both were on the album and my aging and fried brain cells may have traded names. But the song was on that album.

Thanks for the correction,

Giac


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: GUEST,Allan S.
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 08:35 PM

Sorry guys, I have "the blues project" record in front of me put out by Electra. While Muldaur, Ginger man, Devil got my woman, downtown blues and Spoelstra FRance, She's gone are on it. Winding boy was sung by Ian Buchanan I knew him many years ago at the Yale hoots. He comitted suicide several years ago one of the best blues singers I ever heard.


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 10:18 PM

Winin' Boy was also recorded by Dave van Ronk, who I am sure learned i6t from a more natural source. I have sung his version for years. The version linked above is slightly bowdlerized. The verse proceeds:

C~G~~~G7~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~C
Mama , mama, take a look at Sis!
C~G~~~G7~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~C~~~E7
Mama , mama, take a look at Sis!Looky at Sis!
A7~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mama, mama, look at Sis!
Dm~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SHe's out on the levee, doin' that double twist!
D7~~~~~~~~G~~~~~~~~~~~~G7
I'm a wiiiinin' boy!
G~~~~~~~G7~~~~~~C
Don't deny my nammme
.


The linked version also misinterprets "Pick it up and shake it like a stave and a chain".



The last verse, bowdlerized, is:

Sister, sister, she's just a dirty little sow. (2x)
Sister, sister, just a dirrrty sow!
Wants to be a bad girl, but she don' know how!
An' I'm a winin' boy---
Don't deny my namme!

Regards,



Amos


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Wally Macnow
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 12:50 AM

Ian Buchanan! My memory's not worth a damn anymore.

Wally


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: BanjoRay
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 06:34 AM

I'm sure its not "a stave and a chain" - In fact, I've just looked him up in Mister Jelly Roll by Alan Lomax. Quote : "Stavin Chain, to whom Morton compared himself, lived off women. Hero of a long rambling ballad, known all through the Southwest, Stavin Chain's prowess was sexual". Jelly Roll claimed he got the name Wining Boy from a habit of making up new bottles of wine from leftovers at Hilma Burt's mansion on the corner of Basin Street and Custom House, where he played piano. However Johnny St Cyr (banjo player with Louis Armstrong's Hot Five) said it was Winding Boy - "means a fellow that makes good jazz with the women".
Cheers
Ray


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: LR Mole
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:47 AM

Yow! This thread answered questions as quickly as they entered my head.Now, if I could only figure out whether a "coolin' board" is the same thing as a "killin' floor"--they get stuck into the same places in lyrics at times.


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 03:49 PM

Dwditty:
At least from the lyrics I've heard--from Dave Van Ronk, and a little posted above--I don't see this as so extremely bawdy.

As to the practice of making up "fresh, new" bottles of wine (or whiskey, brandy, whatever) this is known as "the liquor butt hustle".

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Gomez
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:22 PM

i feel like i could write a book about this song now. thanks


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: dwditty
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 07:41 PM

DaveO, Check out Jelly Roll's original version sometime. I used to have a record called 'Copulatin' Blues' - bawdy doesn't begin to describe it. The female singers, in general, went way further than the men.

dw


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Giac
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 08:17 PM

Ian Buchanan! LOL, I said my brain was fried!

Whatever it means, I still like the song and bigchuck did a good version of it in HearMe Wednesday night.

Giac


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: GUEST,Ian M.
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 04:31 PM

The verses George Melly sings are completely different from those already mentioned with the exception of the first. He sings the first verse referring to "sweet Stavin Chain". He then goes on with

Ever since I was nothin' but a baby child (3)
All you women tried to drive me wild
I'm a winin boy etc

But now that i've grown old (3)
All you damn women seem to want to try to [feel] me cold
I'm a winin boy etc

I never had one woman at a time (3)
You know I always had six, seven, eight or nine
I'm a winin boy

A dollar's worth of butter, or a nickel's worth of lard (3)
I'm gonna etc
I'm a winin boy etc

I made my very first woman lying in the long tall summer grass (3)
You know my big etc
I'm a winin boy etc

Apologies for the last two verses but they are really not fit for a family show and I would be surprised if they are on the original Jelly Roll Morton recording.


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Frankham
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 03:38 PM

I believe that Jelly Roll Morton interviews with Alan Lomax for the Library of Congress has Jelly mentioning the song. I think he said that it was the kid who brought wine to the pianist. He talks about that song in the interview.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Morticia
Date: 17 Sep 00 - 05:53 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:49 PM

Quote from Jelly Roll Morton regarding "Winin' Boy":

"This happens to be one of my first tunes in the blues line, back in the New Orleans. Back in those days, when a man played piano, the stamp was on him for life- the feminine stamp- and I didn't want that on me, so when I first started playing, the songs came out a little smutty, not "too" smutty, a bit like this:

I'm the Windin' Boy, don't deny my name (3x)
I can pick it up and shake it like Stavin' Chain.
I'm the Wiindin' Boy, don't deny my name.

Nickle's worth of beefsteak, and a dime's worth of lard (3x)
I'm gonna salivate your pussy til my peter gets hard
I'm the Windin' Boy, don't deny my name."

The same article says "The Windin' Boy is a boy who can execute deft motions with his pelvis, windin' or twirling his penis in and about his partner's vagina.
Stavin' Chain (or more properly "Stave 'n' Chain) was a legendary (possibly real) late 19th century strong man who worked on the railroad and was known for his large "stave."

Thanks to Voyager for link to this website.

Morton


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Terry K
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 10:59 AM

Check out Leon Redbone's version - all that you'd expect.


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 12:38 PM

refresh


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Subject: Lyr Add: WININ' BOY BLUES (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 18 Dec 05 - 10:06 PM

The Red Hot Jazz Archive has two recordings of WININ' BOY BLUES performed by Jelly Roll Morton, with solo voice and piano only. The earlier one was recorded in Washington DC, in December, 1938. It is, in my opinion, musically inferior, but the lyrics are interesting. In this version, Morton sometimes distinctly pronounces "winding"—which should eliminate any suspicion that he meant "whining."

I'm the win'in' boy. Don't deny my name.
Win'in' boy. Don't deny my name, oh, babe.
Win'in' boy, don't deny my name.
I'm gonna pick it up an' shake it like stavin' chains.
I'm the win'in' boy. Don't deny my name.

Ev'ry time the changing of the moon,
Ev'ry time there's changing of the moon,
Ev'ry time the changing of the moon,
I know I'll be right back with my baby soon.
I'm the windin' boy. Don't deny my name.

I'm the windin' boy, yes, the windin' boy.
Yes, the winding boy. I mean, I'm the winding boy, baby.
I'm the windin' boy. Don't deny my name.
I'm gonna pick it up an' shake it like stavin' chains.
I'm the winding boy. Don't deny my dog-gone name.

I never b'lieved in havin' one woman at a time.
I never b'lieved in having one woman at a time, yes, at a time.
Never b'lieved in havin' one woman at a time.
I always have six, seven, eight, or nine.
I'm the windin' boy. Don't deny my dog-gone name.

The later version, recorded in New York, in December 14, 1939, has a slower, melancholy tempo:

I'm the win'in' boy. Don't deny my name.
I'm the win'in' boy. Don't deny my name, my name.
Win'in' boy, don't deny my name.
Pick it up an' shake it like sweet stavin' chains.
I'm the win'in' boy. Don't deny my name.

Mama, mama, mama, look at Sis.
Mama, mama, won't you look at Sis. Look at Sis.
Mama, mama, look at Sis.
She's out on the levee doin' the double twist.
I'm the win'in' boy. Don't deny my name.

I'm the win'in' boy. Mm-hm.
Mm-hm, mm-hm, oh, baby.
Yes, I'm the win'in' boy. Don't deny my name.
Pick it up and shake it like sweet stavin' chains.
Mm-hm, don't deny my name.

There are also two mostly instrumental versions by Jelly Roll Morton's New Orleans Jazzmen, recorded September 14, 1939, in which Morton only sings the first verse.]


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Winin' Boy Blues (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 02:27 AM

It was Ian Buchanan's version that really turned me on to this song.

I too, learned of him in the mid 60's, from that single track on The Blues project.

There was an interview with someone called Ian Buchanan on a very late night TV show, and I thought it must be him. This guy was hanging out in Chicago by then playing electric blues. I remember him saying that when he'd started out, he hadn't been all that good. And I thought to myself, this guy doesn't realise how influential that single track has been. And you only have to look at this thread and the other recent one, and see all these guys like Leon Redbone and John Martyn having a shot at it, to see that.

Although it is six years since, if you have any more information about this Ian Buchanan artist - I should be most grateful. Personally speaking I think there should some sort of award for artists who manage to produce life changing stuff like The Blues Project, just to ensure their survival is not due to neglect. We owe them that much.

the record company sure as hell does.

all the best

big Al Whittle


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Winin' Boy Blues (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: Lancashire Lad
Date: 19 Dec 05 - 04:00 PM

Bi Al does a great version of this. Its on his CD and also available as a download here

Cheers
LL


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Winin' Boy Blues (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 06:14 PM

I was searching on the web for stuff about Ian Buchanan whn I came across this site:-
http://www.wirz.de/music/buchafrm.htm

i found it interesting. if anybody else has any more information I'd like to hear from them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Winin' Boy Blues (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: GUEST,Allan S
Date: 27 Dec 05 - 08:21 PM

Great info on Ians later years. I knew him much earlier when he would come to the old Yale hoots in New Haven. Someware I have a tape that I made in those days w/ him playing John Henry It is possible that I may have some photos of him but I would have to go through tons of old negatives to locate them


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Winin' Boy Blues (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 07:29 AM

please don't worry about going through piles of old negatives and going to all that trouble.   all those guys who played on the Blues project album intrigue me greatly.

Apart from Spider John who visited England quite a lot at one time. I never saw any of them live - i guess I should have made that extra effort, but truth to tell I didn't realise I was hearing the music that would one day influence my own to a great extent.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Winin' Boy Blues (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: Chris in Wheaton
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 11:54 AM

It would not seem difficult to get the Blues Project re-released, since most of the performers are still around. Other good ones to re-release would be the early Von Schmidt records. Those and the Von Ronk Folkways were - to me - the most interesting stuff in the early 60's. And then in college when I got to meet Mississippi John and learned to play (after a fashion) his tunes -- well, my favorite song to play right now is Do You Love John Hurt - using Von Ronk's 7th chords - so maybe I haven't gotten too far, but it sure is fun to play. Good article on Mississippi John in this month's Acoustic Guitar mag.
Great to see Spider John, Geoff, and the others still going.
Chris in Wheaton


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Winin' Boy Blues (Jelly Roll Morton)
From: GUEST,allanS.
Date: 28 Dec 05 - 02:19 PM

Who would rerelease those old blues project records? is there a chance it could be done??? what we need is a letter writing campagn, Could Mudcat do something about it ??   Allan


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy? / Winin' Boy Blues
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 12:27 PM

does anyone know if the tune to winding boy was composed by jelly rolll morton or if he used an already existing melody


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Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Req: Winding Boy? / Winin' Boy Blues
From: Amos
Date: 09 Nov 15 - 05:17 PM

Thanks for the clarification about Stavin Chaine! Never knew that, which is why "stave and chain" made sense to me. I am still in doubt about "wining" versus "winding", though. "Wining" makes sense to me, being fond of vino.


A


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