Dylan - Its the dignity that counts

Subject: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Charlie2
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:26 PM

I've been following along with the "Don't Think Twice" thread and I had the following thought. Im my opinion, what makes folk music (and related) so powerful is its unerring sense of dignity. I think that Dylan is so reveared because he has never lost is ability to convey this innate sense and has always proven that the integrity of his music is more important than any trend that happens to be moving along. I think Van Morrison, Garcia, Willie Nelson and the entire folk/blues tradition is rooted in this fact.

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 12:53 PM

That's right. Bob swears quite a bit in private conversation, but I've not seen or heard him do it onstage or in his songs (except for the phrase "wouldn't take shit from no one" in George Jackson...oh yeah, and one incident involving the famous "Judas shout" in England...he swears...but off the microphone, to the band...it's just audible). He has a very strong respect for the past, and for society in general, and he shows it.

The other thing that stands out about folk music (and Bob's songs) is that folk music is NOT written to satisfy a commercial market. It's written for its own sake, period. That's why folk festivals are an oasis of creativity and community, while commercial radio is a "desert of unexamined lives". - a quote from my own writings.

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Biskit
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:04 PM

Whoa!HeeeeeeaVY Little Hawk

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Charlie2
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:35 PM

Yeah, What ARE you talking about anyway Lil Hawk? What's your point with Bob's swearing?

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Midchuck
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:40 PM

Well, Steve Earle appears to be unable to open his mouth, except to sing, without saying the F-word, on or off stage. And he has an innate sense of dignity, too, IMO - though I suppose I can get all kinds of disagreement on this one.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:43 PM

So many roads, so much at stake So many dead ends, I'm at the edge of the lake Sometimes I wonder what it's gonna take To find dignity

Bob Dylan

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Charlie2
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 01:49 PM

What the hell is wrong with swearing anyway?? I'm not getting the whole swearing/dignity deal. Steve Earl is fantastic though. I saw him in an anti-land mine concert in DC a few years ago and, despite the fact that he was trashed, he rocked the house. A true rebel in every sense. Also there were Willie, Emmylou, Lucinda Williams and Sheryl Crow (who sucked).

Getting back the the dignity issue, I think that Jerry Garcia brought an umbelievable amount of dignity to music - perhaps more than anyone I've ever seen, but he certainly had more problems than any other ten people combined. Except maybe for Steve Earl

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 02:16 PM

Who the f*ck said there was anything wrong with swearing? Ha ha!

There's a dignified way to swear and an undignified way. We could talk all day about it, I suppose. A lot of rockers swear constantly in a way that is self-consciously gratuitous, calculated to impress 14-year-old adolescent minds, and not dignified in any sense whatsoever. Rappers are particularly notable for this sort of puerile nonsense.

If someone swears constantly, doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of having strong language in the first place? And doesn't it indicate some form of possibly arrested social development...or perhaps just a limited ability to express oneself? Or is it evidence of a very small learned vocabulary?

My point is that Dylan took the high road in this case, and does not do that onstage.

Steve Earl may have plenty of dignity for all I know, I haven't seen him. I know he writes some great songs.

I wasn't aware that Sheryl Crowe sucks...will have to look further into that at some point, perhaps... I rather like her. :-)

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Charlie2
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 02:29 PM

Yeah Sheryl Crow. I kind of liked her first album. Especially since she actually played on it and wrote her own tunes. But at the show she was sitting there trying to tell the audience about her experience in Sarajevo and it was like "War....I mean, like wow.....Its just gotta stop you know...I mean..." It was just embarrasing.

But getting back to Bob.

People on the platform Waiting for the train I can see their hearts beating Like Pendulums swinging on chains Just when you think you've lost everything You find out you can lose a little more I'm just going down the road feeling bad Trying to get to heaven before they close the door.

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 00 - 02:40 PM

Great lyric from Bob.

I got confused there about Sheryl Crowe. I was thinking Chryssie Hynde for some reason, not Sheryl Crowe. I actually don't care too much for Sheryl Crowe, it's Chryssie Hynde I really like, and I can't remember for sure how to spell her name.

The doors of heaven will never be closed.

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: LR Mole
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 11:39 AM

Well...matter of courtesy, I think. While virtually everyone can cuss, not everyone can be up there performing.And use of those words (our most popular magic spells, really) is such a multilevel thing perhaps it ought not be trivialized or done wholesale. I guess.

Subject: RE: Dylan - Its the dignity that counts
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Aug 00 - 10:45 PM

Exactly.