BS: lost forever

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Lox
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:55 PM

Although I was born in Dublin, my Dad was brought up in Tralee, which makes my second team Kerry.

With this in mind, it seems my reluctant duty to inform Brendy that Armagh did not lose the Sam Maguire, Kerry took it. Whats more, they're not giving it back!

Nya-ha

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:53 PM

OK Kendall, completely different line of thought. I was just talking to Jeri and she was describing the Fox Hollow Festival which sounded to me like a sort of magical event in a fantastic venue - I would have liked to have been there but apparently there will never be another one. I'm not sure what level you are aiming at but do festivals that are dead and gone meet your criteria?

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Brendy
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:50 PM

What you want and what you get are two different things kendall.

You asked the question, remember.

Do you want to answer it for us as well?

B.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: kendall
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:48 PM

I would appreciate it if we could keep this on a higher level than who won or lost some silly ass ball kicking thing..

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Brendy
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:44 PM

The Sam Maguire for Armagh this year!

Boo hoo.

B.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Lox
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:36 PM

My virginity...........then again..........

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 06:38 PM

Plenty to think about here!

Liz, I can't comment on rape, but you're wrong about paedaphiles. The incidence of child attacks/murder etc has not significantly changed over the years. We have just become more aware of the problem. You're still more likely to get killed by a piece of office furniture than lose a kid that way. So if you're going to worry about that risk you need to think twice about ever putting a child in a car.
BR>Sorry to lower the tone (again) but I'm afraid Skipjack's right out of order with that frivolous contribution above. What about Leeds losing to Chelsea - Chelsea - in the '68 semi-final at Aston Villa? Lorimer equalised from a freekick in the closing minutes, but the kick had to be retaken because Chelsea players had been too close to the ball. Robbed or what?

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: bflat
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 05:59 PM

Sobriety......lost lives and relationships followed.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Penny S.
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 05:44 PM

The point about the Romans, if Spartacus had succeeded, was that they would have had to rethink their society very deeply, and not base it on slavery, which would have changed the violent basis somewhat. Possibly. And could have prevented Roman priests from destroying the Druidic Ogham libraries in Ireland, and the Thomasine church's scriptures in India. Alternatively, Rome would have become even worse, and failed sooner.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Grab
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 10:17 AM

Of all time? Does this include all the numerous mass extinctions prior to mammalian ascendance? Or are we talking a purely human history?

Given that Rome was a brutal militaristic society, who thought murder and death of those socially inferior to oneself was insignificant, I don't consider their failure to achieve mechanisation to be a great loss.

Even with the loss of the Library, though, most of the knowledge of the ancient Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, etc was lost, destroyed, or concealed by the Catholic Church (mostly deliberately) for over a millenium. The reign of religious literalism over that time (and it's coming back, folks!) which slapped down anyone with intellect or with ideas contrary to the Church's doctine was surely terrible.

Anyone care to count the TV as a loss? Whilst we've gained the ability to see the rest of the world, and we've gained greatly in documentaries, satire, news, etc, we've lost politics to the soundbite, we've lost active thought to empty viewing, and we've lost individual choice to advertising.

Grab.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: GUEST,Indigo
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 06:20 AM

Atlantis, ------- and 'Spaw said the rest beautifully.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: kendall
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:14 PM

Mbo..your point is well taken. I dont approve of murder in ANY form. However, the writings of the natives of Easter Island for instance, can never be replaced because all traces of their civilization have been destroyed, and, their language has also been wiped out totally. This is not true of the priests and nuns in Panama.They were wiped out, but, their language is still around. The records of Columbus are also still around, but, he does not go into great detail about how he and his men enslaved infected and worked to death all those 100 thousand indian slaves.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Ferrara
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 03:10 PM

Not the greatest loss, because all the worst losses I know of have been mentioned above. But one I sometimes feel really sad about: The destruction of J.M.W. Turner's pornographic, er, I mean erotic, drawings and watercolors by his widow. He had done hundreds of 'em and only a few survive. Several other fine collections of erotica have also been burned by offended widows.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Bert
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:17 PM

The original lyrics from all those songs that were Bowdlerized by prudish collectors.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Mbo
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:02 PM

What about all the Catholic priests & nuns who were butchered in Panama, along with their Panamania followers, and the destruction of all their writings and records, by English pirate Henry Morgan, who did it because "it was fun."

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: kendall
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 09:22 AM

How about the loss of all those "heathen" writings of the Myans? and the tablets of the natives of Easter Island? all burned by Catholic missionaries.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Penny S.
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:08 AM

If Spartacus had led his rebels out of Italy, instead of deciding to attack Rome, then the Romans might have decided to use slaves less and machinery more. They weren't far from steam engines. And that might have saved Alexandria, and could have changed the church's attitude to slavery and women.....idiot. Had this discussion yesterday after the film.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 03:16 AM

The Moon ... or rather, the spirit and mystery of the moon. Don't misunderstand: I'm all in favor of exploration. I was thrilled by the entire Mercury, Gemini, Apollo sequence of flights, the Apollo 11 moon landing, and all of the terrific 'spin offs' in science, medicine, technology and so on. But there was a trade off as well.

How long has the moon sailed our night skies as the symbol of unattainable beauty? With the arrival of Neil Armstrong in July, 1969, the moon changed. Vanished is the mystery of the moon, and nothing has replaced it.

== Johnny in Oklahoma City

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Escamillo
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 02:13 AM

The destruction of American (North, Middle and South) native cultures.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Amos
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 06:38 PM

Whales. Hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of great, beautiful, powerful, sapient masters of the deep, harassed to destruction for the sake of body parts.

Another loss, at least in many parts of the West, I think, is a sense of relating to the actual world -- with far places unexplored, and peoples creating cultures of many rhythms and ways of being human. The changes of the last fifty years have left me (perhaps this is just a profoundly reisted maturity speaking) bereft of that sense and left with the obligation to relate instead to corporations, products, and culturally depraved mass markets who stumble and stampede across existance like psychotic bisons being herded over a cliff by beer-drinking market jocks in SUVs.


A

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: campfire
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 05:35 PM

Amen, Liz the Squeak.

I would also add as a loss, here in these (Middle Class) United States, anyway, the loss of the ability of a single income to support a family. Most children have two working parents these days (if they have two parents, but that's another subject). The importance (IMHO) to have a parent at home when a child comes home from school, and on days when there is no school, etc. seems to now be a luxury few families can afford. Those that do have to give up other things (like music lessons and computers) that the other children take for granted.

Not to rag on Day Care, but how can day care teach each child the values his/her own family follows? I'm sure (I hope!) day care providers care about the children in their charge and do their best, but can every scraped knee get "healed" with a kiss when there are 10 (or more) other children clamoring for attention? Do the children that grow up in Day Care have childhood memories of days in the park with Mom, or a train ride to Chicago to see Grandma?

Give me back the days when one parent (either gender) could support the family, and one parent could be...A PARENT!

campfire

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: sledge
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 03:00 AM

All the great forests that are getting smaller or are on the verge of disappearing.

I also wonder about those lost books purged by the Catholic church, Cathar, Aztec Etc.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 02:47 AM

Lost forever for me is the ability to let my child play in the front yard, go to the corner shop alone for sweeties or walk to school (a 3 min walk) unattended.

I walked for miles when I was little, my brother had a paper round and he'd leave me in the playpark whilst he did the long bit of the village, sometimes it took him nearly an hour. I was about 5, and spent hours alone, away from my house.

Rapists and Paedophiles hadn't been heard of, abduction was something that happened to important people, and death was what happened to old people.

My one biggest fear for my child is no longer her future, her school, her first boyfriend, or any serious injury or illness, it's whether I will see her at the end of the block when she runs off around the corner.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Giac
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 01:59 AM

The loss of homelands and lifestyles of indigenous peoples, and the encroachment upon the lands of those still trying to hang in there.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Mickey191
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 01:58 AM

Civility,erudition,manners,respect for language - I fear they are lost and gone forever. God help us, because I think America is the leading proponent of this dumbing down attitude which so many seem to have adopted.

Mickey N.Y. Peace

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Ebbie
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 01:57 AM

Art, that's priceless!

What I fear most is the needless losses caused by stupidity. The cry of Jobs First! is insane- first you find a place to live and Earth is our place to live. The same with the stupidity of reciting- as we did in the fifties- Better Dead than Red. What arrant nonsense. No one has the right to let others die because of one's own political belief- Strategic capitulation buys time- and in time the wheel will turn. If you have turned the earth into toxic cinders, there will never be time.

But I remain optimistic that we'll learn just enough as we go that we make progress in reclaiming and remedying these harmful things. There is real hope- if only we are able to reach and teach the young... Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Ely
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 01:21 AM

In general? The environment. All those species of plants that might have cured diseases . . .

Personally? My grandparents/relatives. My mother's parents died before I was born (my grandmother when my mom was 22, my grandfather just a week before I came along--I was born in New Jersey because my parents were there for his funeral and I arrived early). My father's father had Parkinson's disease and died when I was 10--he'd been sick for a long time and by the time I was old enough not to be afraid of it, he was so far gone he couldn't talk or get around well. My father's mother never got along with my mother and she now is in the last stages of Alzheimer's. We haven't lived close to either set of in-laws since I was 5. My mother has all kinds of neat aunts and uncles and cousins that I barely know. I remember my brother once cried because he was so angry that he hadn't been able to grow up with these people since we lived halfway across the country.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 11:26 PM

Good thread Kendall...makes ya think.

on a personal note, the loss of my dad when I was 18 still hurts. I would have liked him to know that I turned out not to be a total fuck-up...'cause that's the direction I was heading when he died.

I'd certainly put Alexandria high on the list. For me though it's trains. I watched them endlessly as a kid, but never had the guts to hop a freight. Wish I had.

Sailing ships as well. In Mystic Ct. I spent a couple of nights on an old whaler...and I'm convinced that had I lived a hundred and fifty years ago, I would have spent my life at sea.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Mooh
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 09:54 PM

Habitat destruction. Environmental degradation. Pollution of air, soil, water, ground water, Arctic and Antarctic, rain forest,

Slippery slope indeed, Mooh.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Art Thieme
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 09:53 PM

When I was about 7 or 8 years old I inadvertantly left my baseball glove in Chicago's Lincoln park. Mom wouldn't let me hear the end of it. I was chastised and yelled at for a day and a half before my anger spilled over and I yelled, "Well, at least I never lost anything alive !" Everyone went nuts and wanted to know what I was talking about. When my mother was yonger, before I'd been born, she had, as I was always told, "LOST A CHILD." My outburst was a direct result of a young and clueless youth's evaluation of an event that was actually incomprehensible to him/me.

conclusion:

It's all relative.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Mbo
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 09:51 PM

Murdoch's head.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Lena
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 09:45 PM

As an italian band pointed out,the Library in sarajevo is a recent huge loss that still makes me cry.Another loss you may not have heard of,is the georgolfili library in Florence .it was a domestic accident.Some bastards made a bomb explode in the middle of the ancient area in Florence,behind the Uffizi gallery,killing five people and destroying the most beautiful gathering of medieval rural knowledge(agricultural tratises,etc...).Beside the fact that paintings in the Gallery went damaged,that architectural problems followed(you can't open a widow anymore there because it might explode and they're too ancient and beautiful to loose them...)all around...

And a greater damage was the feelings following.One night the most scary,loud,tearing sound blasts waking you up.(and bombs have that sound that seems to explode in your head and never get away...)and afterwards there is a lot of pain,fear,and anger-someone ,who knows why,had been able to do that,to destroy a common most precious heritage and to kill two little girls and their family......it takes away your trust in human beings.That is a lost.and it was May,when nature makes you believe everything is happy and beautiful.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 06:44 PM

...........One gray night it happened, Jackie Paper came no more....

Yeah, it ties with some other's thoughts above, but the loss of childhood with its innocent wonderment of small things made great. The thrill and adventure of the first time for all those things a child cannot wait to do, and once done, can never be held in awe again. So many joys, so many woes..........but all amazing, exciting, and new. Its so hard when you are older to recapture that feeling on any level.

Certainly the moments come. You look at a person and instantly realize that somehow this is the person you will spend the rest of your life with. You hold the tiny, bundled package that will share your home and your name. You awaken from a life threatening experience and realize you're alive. But nothing can replace all those wonderful and awe-inspiring events of childhood.

Sadly, our children are forced to grow more quickly today. For some, Puff doesn't even put in an appearance.

KIM....I too am sorry to hear your news and my best thoughts are with you.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 05:22 PM

No Bert but I think I will see if I can get a copy from the Library and have a read.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: CarolC
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:45 PM

Kim C, I'm sorry about your father.

I think that next to the loss of the environment, the loss of our clean air and water, the loss of the bio-diversity that helps keep the web of life operating smoothly, all other losses pale in comparison. It's a slippery slope we're going down.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:39 PM

the game of five stones or gobs

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: JR
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:34 PM

innocense & civlity... whenever that was

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 04:26 PM

When Leeds United lost 2-3 to struggling Colchester United in the FA Cup in 1973.

That was reckoned to be the greatest loss of all time, at the time.

I was there!

Skipjack

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: DonMeixner
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 03:36 PM

That moment in the lives of many when they cease to be amazed may be the greatest tragedy. Its at the precise moment when imagination stops and the acceptance of the common place becomes,... ah, common place. Imagine the great minds, who for want of stimulation , that have stop searching and questing. Maybe its is the great minds that have been so overcome by personal tragedy, that have been beaten into submission by "just one more thing" and haven't had the power to excell.

This happens daily in our schools, work places, and homes. It also must have happened down through history. Sometime in the past, a great mind must have passed away unnoticed and unachieved. And allowing such to continue will be a greater tragedy and loss.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Kim C
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 03:32 PM

I'm going to go with Sinsull on the loss of ancient knowledge. So much that the Egyptians knew was considered witchcraft and heresy in the Dark Ages, especially with regard to medicine and dentistry.

I'm also going to vote for Mozart.

Two years ago several tornadoes swept through the Nashville area. One of them downed several 100+ year-old trees at the Hermitage, the home of Andrew Jackson. If you have ever been there, you know how majestic the tree-lined driveway was. No more. Some of those trees had been planted by Jackson himself. While they are being replanted, it's not quite the same. The first time I visited there after the storm, I just stood there and cried. (The Gibson Guitar company took some of the wood and made some very collectible "Old Hickory" guitars.)

On a personal level, I lost my father last week to diabetes complications. He was 68 and had a full life but that doesn't make it any easier. Also, last year, the wife of a dear friend was killed in an auto accident. She was 4 months pregnant with their second child. Kathy was one of the sweetest, most special people on the Earth. I miss her still today, because it seemed like there was so much left for her to accomplish.

But like the Good Book says, to everything there is a season.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Cobble
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 03:15 PM

the loss of a none nuclear world. Cobble's SO.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: SINSULL
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:55 PM

Kendall,
I just saw a History Channel program on the Library at Alexandria. Some scientist claimed that it set back mankind's development by hundreds of years. Imagine: the Civil War could have been atomic. Or maybe, a slower moving society might have been able able to use the power more efficiently/productively.

But if we are being philosophical, my vote would go to the loss of knowledge of our earliest ancestors. If we could each trace our roots back to a single pair of great-great-ever so great grandparents, maybe we could all live as one big happy family. Maybe Jon's Garden of Eden gets my vote after all.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:52 PM

Jon,
Have you read 'Looking for Dilmun' by Geoffrey Bibby?

Deb, you're right there. So many grandparents were lost in WWII.

Bert.

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: GUEST,Deborah
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:41 PM

I consider the greatest loss of all time to be my grandparents and six million other Jews in the Holocaust.

Deborah

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:41 PM

The Garden of Eden

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: lost forever
From: Bert
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:41 PM

The untimely death of Archimedes has got to be high up there. He was so prolific one has to wonder what he would have achieved had he not been killed.

Subject: lost forever
From: kendall
Date: 01 Sep 00 - 02:36 PM

This is a pretty bright group of people, and, I'm wondering what you all consider the greatest loss of all time. My vote goes to the library at Alexandria Egypt. If we can keep it on an intellectual level please, the breakup of the Beatles is not a loss to some of us....