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BS: Beat the breathalizer?

DougR 02 Sep 00 - 05:36 PM
Mbo 02 Sep 00 - 05:41 PM
campfire 02 Sep 00 - 05:42 PM
wildlone 02 Sep 00 - 05:44 PM
Willie-O 02 Sep 00 - 06:45 PM
JenEllen 02 Sep 00 - 06:56 PM
WyoWoman 02 Sep 00 - 07:19 PM
Jon Freeman 02 Sep 00 - 07:32 PM
GUEST,Barry Finn 02 Sep 00 - 07:36 PM
Bugsy 02 Sep 00 - 08:01 PM
CarolC 02 Sep 00 - 08:27 PM
okthen 02 Sep 00 - 08:56 PM
Greg F. 02 Sep 00 - 09:14 PM
WyoWoman 03 Sep 00 - 12:30 AM
Lepus Rex 03 Sep 00 - 01:07 AM
GUEST,A Mother and Member of M.A.D. 03 Sep 00 - 01:28 AM
sledge 03 Sep 00 - 03:58 AM
Amergin 03 Sep 00 - 05:53 AM
Banjer 03 Sep 00 - 07:59 AM
sledge 03 Sep 00 - 08:58 AM
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Lox 03 Sep 00 - 01:35 PM
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Subject: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 05:36 PM

In view of the fact that the Labor Day holiday weekend in the U.S. is one of the busiest for DUI patrols, I thought it might be interesting to find out if anybody has a sure-fire way of "beating" the breathalizer. This subject came up in a discussion among friends at my local Pub last night. One suggested that if you hold a copper penny under your tongue when you blow into the breathalizer, it will foul up the reading. Another said eating peanuts before taking the test will allow you to pass with flying colors. Someone else suggested that chocolate will do the trick. Any other ideas?

I hope no Mudcatters in the U.S. are subjected to the test this weekend but it might be a good idea to be sure you carry a copper penny around with you.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Mbo
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 05:41 PM

Yeah, I got one. How about DON'T GET TANKED. Or get a designated driver. You know, the guy who doesn't pop brain cells and kill innocent people every holiday?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: campfire
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 05:42 PM

How about - NOT DRINKING TOO MUCH! That's the only "sure-fire" way. There are lots of "tales", and perhaps some work for some people - but who really knows what the results would have been anyway?

Since you seem to have it handy, maybe a mouthwash made of Yak pee would foul up the machine.

campfire


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: wildlone
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 05:44 PM

As Mbo said dont drink and drive


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 06:45 PM

Don't know how it works in the States but in Canada if you don't provide a breath sample when required to do so, you're subject to the same penalties as if you were proven to be impaired. And the breathalyser sample is not the only legal proof of impaired driving, just the most technical & quantifiable one.

Don't know how to get a falsely low reading, but there are lots of ways to get a false high one. Take a swig of mouthwash, for example. Or if you have just one beer and then provide a breath sample a few minutes later, it will probably be high. (That's why they take you down to the station and do a second sample within an hour or so if you blow a positive on the roadside test.)

Best way of course is to avoid getting into that situation where you see the flashing red lights and go "oh shit".

Now that I don't drink, I enjoy the drive home after a night out a lot more.

Willie-O
wasn't always a good boy, but never got caught...
call me lucky.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: JenEllen
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 06:56 PM

Yeah, "Lucky", same boat here. Plus, the morning after isn't nearly so nasty. When you wake up, look in the bathroom mirror, and think "Who the hell let Keith Richard into my house??" it's time to change your ways!!

Doug, I wouldn't want to try and cheat the breathalyzer. A very basic tenet of survival is that you shouldn't base your survival on any piece of machinery that is smarter than you are. Get a designated driver..please? And be in one piece on Tuesday, okay?

~Elle


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:19 PM

and besides, Doug, what a great way to meet women. Just say, "Hi. YOu don't know me. My name is Doug-R-R-R-R-R and I'm not tipsy yet, but I might be. And because I'm a fun-loving, yet responsible guy, if I get in that condition, I'll need a designated driver. Can I count on you?"

And she'll say, "Whoa....this guy knows how to have fun AND do the right thing! I'm THERE ..."

Just thinking of your health and happiness!

ww


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:32 PM

There is only one way - don't drink and drive. I got banned for 12 months in 1981 but I have been a good boy ever since.

I have never taken my test in a car and I don't often drive these days (I have driven thousands of miles on L plates in cars and on motorbikes in the past - just never took the test) but I had to do a lot of the driving from home to Norfolk (about 270 miles) a couple of months ago as my mother was tired. Much as I like a drink and I admit to having alcoholic tendencies, there is no way that I would have undertaken the journey if I had any alcohol to drink.

One thing that must always be remembered is the amount of alchol that can still be in your system the morning after a heavy session. I remember somebody I worked with who actually drove the minibus to work getting breathalised at 10 am. He seemed fine to all of us when he drove us to work and did nothing wrong - it was just that he happened to meet a policeman who had been in the same club as him and had seen how much he had been drinking the night before (the excuse was "seemed to be walking funny" - true - he has a dodgy knee!) and he ended up showing twice the legal limit some 7 hours after he said he had drunk his last drink - a bottle of whisky!

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 07:36 PM

The breathalizer is known to make mistakes usually not in the favor of the breather either. Certain spices, medicines (inhalers espically), mouthwashes, etc can cause a higher reading, if you think you may have reason not to take it you can opt for a blood test which gives a better true reading. If you've had to much to drink & you still drive, you're no better than a gangbanger spraying a tec 9 out a car window during a drive-by. You might not get someone this time but maybe if you try hard enough you'll hit someone on your next attempt. Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Bugsy
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:01 PM

If you can play the didgeridoo, you may be in with a chance. They say circular breathers can beat the breathalizer by inhaling and expelling fresh air into the machine.

Best way though is to nominate a skipper or take a cab.

Cheers

Bugsy

ps. if you get caught don't come here for sympathy.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: CarolC
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:27 PM

DougR,

You seem to me to be a man with a conscience. How do you think you would feel if you had too much to drink, got behind the wheel of your car, and killed my son (or anyone for that matter), in an accident caused by your being intoxicated?

(Hoping everyone keeps that in mind this weekend), Carol


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: okthen
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 08:56 PM

i can't remember all of this but

the fuzz (remember that) pulled a guy over and asked for a breathe test, he then produced a document proving he was asthmatic and couldn't do so. they then asked him to walk a white line, whereupon he produced a doctors note to say he suffered from virtigo,and that test would not be valid.

then they asked if he would be willing to provide a blood sample,again a doctor's note stated he was heamophiliac and they couldn't do that.

so they said O.K. will you come down and give a urine sample,to which he produced a letter confirming he was a member of the british cricket team,so they decided not to take the piss.

cheers

bil


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Sep 00 - 09:14 PM

I've no sympathy with drunks behind the wheel. Period. Best way to 'beat it' is by acting responsibly- don't drink & drive. And if chose to drink & drive and get caught, PLEASE don't whine about it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 12:30 AM

Ok. Here's another one. You walk into the pub of your choice, pick out the woman who attracts you most and say, "You've had enough to drink now." And she says "What? This is my first drink ..." And you say, "Yes, but you'll be driving me home later ... "

I've had that one used on me. Didn't work, but ... points anyway.

ww


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:07 AM

Like others have said, don't drink and drive.

I've had two cars wrecked by drunks, and I've only been driving for like 5 years. Both times, the guys were too injured/covered in their own questionable blood for me to kick their asses, and the second one fled the hospital and disappeared (I'll get you yet, Lech Malinowski!)

I think anyone caught drining drunk should have their liscense revoked for life. And have their car confiscated. (I thought this before my cars got wrecked, too)

Don't people have anything better to do than to drink the juice of putrified vegetables? I mean, get a friggin' hobby or something. ;)

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,A Mother and Member of M.A.D.
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:28 AM

DougR,
Please forgive me, but I fail to see the logic and rationale of this particular instigated discussion.

I agree entirely with those who state that the way to beat the breathalizer is to not drink and then drive, or if one does drink, leave your car where it is and either call a cab, or have a designated driver within your group of friends.

The fact that you and your friends would contemplate schemes to "beat the breathalizer" is highly offensive to me, as a mother who lost a vital, vibrant 17 year old daughter to a drunk driver 3 years ago.

Think about this DougR. Getting into your car drunk or even slightly impaired, makes you a bullet loaded into the chamber with a hair trigger cocked. The slightest reflex or momentary distraction can make you a murderer.
Think about the potential misery caused to the affected family, and to your life, the next time you're about to suck on that penny.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: sledge
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 03:58 AM

Drunk driving is a testament to stupidity.

I am aware of several health proffesionals on this forum, and I am sure that they will back me up here, it is bad enough dealing with victims of an RTA, to deal with the innocent victims of some drunken cretin is so much worse. If a death is the outcome of such foolish behaviour DougR, would you happily take on the job of informing next of kin.

If you drink and drive you deserve every penalty that the law is capable of dropping on you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 05:53 AM

and then some....


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Banjer
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:59 AM

Other than the fact that drinking and driving, or operating a vessel (quite frequent here in Florida, being a pennisula) is stupid, why is it that the phrase "Having a drink" automatically denotes alchohol? Many times I have been at various functions and have been asked if I would like a drink. I have received all manner of looks ranging from pity to disgust when I reply "Yes, do you have any soft drinks or other non alchoholic beverage?" This is not to say I am a teetotaler, but I will not drink alchoholic beverages knowing I have to drive soon. I'm sure there are others that think like me, but why are we made to feel like outcasts?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: sledge
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 08:58 AM

Banjer, You wouldn't be in my neck of the woods.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 10:29 AM

As an Addictions professional I operate an Intoximeter on a regular basis. For those of you worried about a false positive reading, let me give you some important information.

The machine works on the premise that there is a direct correlation between the amount of alcohol in the blood stream and the air held in the lungs. Alcohol easily passes through the tissue that allows oxygen into the bloodstream.

The operator of the intoximeter should ask you to breath deeply and blow through the tube. The operator should let a few seconds pass before pressing the button for a reading. The object is to get a sample of the air that has been down in the lungs, that representative sample.

If the operator does not wait those few seconds, the sample basically represents the air in the mouth, which has no correlation with the alcohol in the bloodstream. Recent drinks of alcohol-based potions or recent use of other alcohol based substance (cough syrup, mouthwash, etc.) will produce a positive reading that does not represent the amount of alcohol in the bloodstream.

If you receive a reading that you believe is a false positive due to this "mouth alcohol", ask the tester to retest you in fifteen minutes. By that time, there will be no more alcohol floating around in your mouth. Then, if the operator still doesn't wait, you get a false negative. If the operator waits, then the reading should correlate well with your Blood Alcohol Level.

Significant impairment in reflexes and perception begin to occur at 0.05% blood alcohol level. The higher the level, the more impairment. For the average person, what we perceive as drunk is a level 0.12 % or higher.

Since most of us don't carry breath testing equipment with us the following information may provide some guidelines. First, a 12 oz. beer, a 6 oz. glass of wine, and a "shot" of liquor basically provide the same amount of alcohol to the bloodstream when imbibed. Secondly, how high this raises your blood alcohol level is affected by blood volume (roughly body size) and gender (women get higher levels because their systems do not break down the alcohol as fast as men). For most people, two drinks in one hour will put them above the 0.05 % level. It will take two hours for the body to process most of that alcohol. A reasonable guideline then is less than one drink an hour and nothing to drink two hours before driving. You got that class? How about you Doug R.?

The above information does not constitute professional advice and I take no responsibility for results, good or bad. The only guaranteed technique is don't drink alcohol based beverages and don't use alcohol based medications.

In the U. S., roughly 1/3 of adults don't drink at all; another 1/3 drink less than once a month; and a final third are what most people call the "drinkers". Out of these "drinkers", roughly 1/3 of them (15 % of the adult population) drink over 70 % of the alcohol sold (these are the "heavy drinkers"). Those who find themselves in the last category would be wise to adhere to the simple message "Don't Drive After Drinking."

Cheers!

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Lox
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 01:35 PM

You prat!


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 02:45 PM

Ignore the childish name-calling, and heed the concensus.

And I would add: throw away your "radar detector" (you probably have one).

Just as you have no right to endanger the lives of everyone else on the road by drunk driving, neither do you have a right to do so by speeding.

Watch out for the yay-hoo's. Around here, the drunks are chiefly in pickups, and the speeders are in SUV's.

Hope you make it through the holiday! == Johnny


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 03:26 PM

Thanks all. I agree with you 100%. I may have given the impression that I am a drunk, heavy drinker, whatever by posting this thread. I'm not.

I assure you, I only posted it because I thought it would receive some comical replies.

I realize now that it was not a good thing to do, and Max if you please, do what ever one does to send this Thread into the wild blue yonder.

To those of you who were offended, I apologize.

Rodger's comments, I believe, are worthwhile reading for anyone who drinks even moderately and I appreciate him posting them.

And WyoWoman, I love your suggestions!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 03:28 PM

Oh come on, everybody. It was just a question. No need to get all preachy, anyone with any brain cells left knows better than to drink and drive. The question is still interesting, and although I personally don't commit this particular heinous act, I would be interested in a (real) answer.

As an aside, the best way I've heard of is from a bunch of jokers who were drinking at a pub KNOWN to be watched by the cops. Just before closing, one guy tottered out, meandered to his car, wandered out of the parking lot, went oh-so-slowly down the street, and got pulled over about 2 blocks away. He passed the breathalizer. He passed the walk the line. He passed the touch your nose. He was totally sober - he was just the designated decoy! But of course that only works if you know the cops are there...


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 03:44 PM

Mrrzy, from my perspective, a lot of people still do drink and drive. The rationale seems to be:
1) I am not THAT drunk.
2) I won't get caught, it's only a few blocks home,
3) I know the cops, and they won't arrest me.
Answers are: You are, you will, and they will. If you are lucky, that is. If you are not lucky you will eventually kill yourself or someone else.

There are new Intoximeters that no longer require the bottom of the lung air--they get a valid reading about half way through the breath. Also, generally, a person suspected of DWUI is required to wait 15 minutes under police supervision to make sure there are no "interfering agents" involved--cigarettes, mouthwash, onions, etc.

There is also another test called "astagmatic" (sp?) which measures the involuntary movements of the eye. This one is damn near impossible to beat, because it is not under voluntary control.

And in Wyoming, at least, a refusal to take a breath test is an automatic guilty plea with 6 months suspension. A blood alchohol test may be requested in ADDITION to the breath test by the defendant, but not in lieu of. It is called "Implied Consent" and is right there on your driver's license.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 03:45 PM

To those of you who don't know Doug, I can assure you he is certainly not a bad guy and I don't think he expected the response to this thread. He is a kind, humane, person and I think his only vice is being Republican. Yeah, it was probably an ill-advised choice, but I DO believe he was looking for some humorous responses in the "Paw and Cletus" vein, but this subject is so near and dear to so many that its tough to see any humor in it at times.

I am guilty of drinking and driving in younger days and why I didn't kill someone else or myself is anybody's guess. I've been on the other end of the scenario and the tragedy of losing someone throuh stupidity is too hard and a wate beyond all else.

Sorry Doug.....I know you didn't mean to come off the way you did. I have always respected you and your opinions even when we have disagreed because I know they come from honest thought and beliefs...........except the Republican stuff. I think there are shots for that. Check with your doctor.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 04:49 PM

Nope, you're right, Spaw! I didn't. And as far as my owning a radar detector, no. I don't.

As far as my politics is concerned, I'm considering converting to the Green Party, Spaw. (but not seriously)

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 06:08 PM

DougR,

Although you have probably experienced some discomfort as a result of starting this thread, I think you probably did a great service, inadvertantly, by posting it.

Even though you may not need the words of wisdom contained in this thread, maybe someone who did need them has read it and will be affected by it in a positive way. I hope you feel better now.

Best wishes,

Carol


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 03 Sep 00 - 07:22 PM

Thanks Carol, for those nice words. I hope you are right. DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 04:23 PM

Sorcha,

I am not aware of them new Intoximeters. Could you send me a personal message about 'em? Please, pretty please?

The visual nystagmus test goes like this. They place an upright finger (not the middle one you lame brains!) about eight inches in front of your nose. They then move it slowly to the left and back and to the right and back, asking you to follow the movement without turning your head. They watch your eyes. If you're sober, you usually can follow the movement with a smooth movement of your eye.

If you have imbibed (or maybe done some illicit drugs) your eyes will follow the pencil in a start-stop movement. Follow for a while, stop, move quick to catch up, follow, stop, etc. It is pretty clear and as Sorcha says not under voluntary control.

I have had one experience with being pulled over. It was interesting to me and perhaps to you. First, you need to know I suffer from obstructive sleep apnea. Untreated, it leads to prolonged REM sleep deprivation. The result is the ability to fall asleep at the drop of a hat (or even without the hat dropping). Just before I was diagnosed by a doctor (I had already self-diagnosed) I was driving my sons home. I had had nearly ten hours sleep the night before. I had taken a three hour nap that afternoon. But at 10 PM, I was nearly asleep at the wheel. Hell, I was probably sleeping off and on (denial dies very slowly) I know I was swerving. I was pulled over (I never saw him coming until the bubble gum lights came on).

Now, as an addictions professional in a small county, the last thing I wanted was to step out of my car and take the old "drunk test." I was sure a client or a coworker would drive by.

The trooper asked me if I had been drinking. I said, "No, I,m a teetotaller." Well he didn't know what that meant, so I explained I don't drink. He was unconvinced and asked me to step out of the car and walk to the rear. Well, I was feelin' mighty embarrassed about this time. The first test he tried was the visual nystagmus test. Well, I also suffer from an eye that has nearly "shut down" due to a birth defect (astigmatism). It frequently doesn't follow along with the other eye.

So I failed that test. Fortunately the trooper then asked me to step into his car and take an Intoximeter test. I was overjoyed. I was off the highway and I was taking a test I knew I would pass. I passed and was issued a warning about swerving.

It was know fun standing in the glare of the police car head lights and the flashing red and blue lights. It was hard to focus on the trooper and the task at hand. Gave me a real feel for what many of patients experience.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Jimmy C
Date: 04 Sep 00 - 08:37 PM

My two children were T-boned by a drunk driver 2 years ago this month. Thank God they were not seriousle hurt, but a few more inches one way and at least one of them could heve been killed or badly maimed. People who drink and drive will get no sympathy from me nor will anyyone who tries to tell them how to beat the test. They deserve to be severly punished.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 01:09 PM

Ya ya ya... don't drink and drive... yadda yadda yadda...

But I do have a pic of an article scanned from a newspaper somewhere of a guy, who tried to beat the breathalizer by eating the crotch out of his underwear....

That more the kind of story you were hoping to hear???
LOL!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 02:05 PM

Yep, Clinton, and I'll bet that guy met the same fate a guy would were he to rely on a penny, peanuts, or chocolate.

But that's the kind of thing I was looking for.

I still wish Max would kill the thread though.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Sailor Dan at work
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 05:26 PM

There are three kinds of DD's in this world

1. Designated Driver

2. Designated Drunk

3. Designated Dummy.

As you can see, Nbr 2 & Nbr 3 go together,

I spoke to my buddy who just retired as Deputy Director of the NJ Police Academy with 35 years of service. He says, anything you do to beat a breatholizer test only adds to the problems you will have. There is no way to beat it or make it read less then it should, especially if you have been drinking.

Sailor DAn


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Clinton Hammond2
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 05:35 PM

I have it from good authority from a provincial cop, that the method I suggested over pints one night in her pub would work... But I'm not gonna say what the method is... Drunk drivers should be made to take public transit for 5 or 10 years at least... for a first offence...

I will say this, there's a reason why the cop instructs you to "breath normally" for a few minutes before making you blow into the machine...

{~`


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 06:03 PM

How about this one: If you think you've drunk too much, try sleeping in your car for about 8 hours before driving.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Sorcha
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 06:21 PM

Jim, if you do that, just don't sleep behind the wheel--technically, you are then "in control" of the vehicle, and can still be arrested, esp. if the keys are in the switch.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Crazy Eddie
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 04:22 AM

I'm Just Surprised nobodt has mentioned Jinmmy Crowley's Breathaliser Song:

With urine & blood-tests we're all in a right mess,
'Tis back to the local we'll all have to go,
Or else get a side-car to drive near & drive far,
And teach the auld Jennet to find its way home.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Fortunato
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 01:20 PM

DougR,

I think your thread raised some important issues, and I got something from it. Thanks.

Fortunato


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:23 PM

Thanks, Fortunato, I hope SOME good came of it. DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: CamiSu
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 07:50 AM

Doug, I can understand why you want this killed, but actually I think you may have done more of a service than you think.

My family doesn't drink, and because that's known we are rarely offered anything alcoholic. We also have pretty much gotten beyond the 'looks of pity and disgust' given by those that are offering. Two of my children are 20 & 21, and have so far coped with the same pretty well. Jessica's HS parties were often here and it was nice because there was no issue at all, and so there was no pressure. She even goes to pubs in Scotland and manages not to drink alcohol. (One does have to have thicker skin where the non-drinkers are more of a minority). But it can be done, and you have much more fun, AND you remember it! I really appreciate that so many people don't drink these days, though I still worry when my kids are out driving on heavy drinking nights...


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,LLCOOLJ@YAHOO.COM
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 01:45 AM

EAT A SPOON OF BLACK BEANS AFTER EACH BEER AND U WONT GET DRUNK, JUST BECAUSE THEY BREAK DOWN THE ETHANOL BEFORE IT ENTERS IN YOUR BLOODSTREAM L


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 08:09 AM

One of the better ways is to have a rich father and then run for president, and loose in the popular vote, and the electorial colege votes and then have your brother and the supreme court steal the election for you, then have the secret service check to see that your driver is sober and you can get as faced as you want... at a christmas party of traffic court lawyers a few days ago, here in new york, the general consensus was that in his particular social placement, he would know enogh to plea bargin the court, so what did dubbleya plea down from to get a drunk driving conviciton, drugs? aw no of course not, he didn't do that in college... and if you believe that you will believe he carried fla. ;-} Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: alison
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 08:26 AM

It's a good time of year to raise the issue DougR even if you did cop some flack for it....... it may make someone else think...

when I was 18 I watched my friend wiped by a drunk cop (he jumped a red light), and I knelt beside her in the road while she died... it is a picture I will NEVER forget...... but I also will never forget his smug smile when he walked over to me in the waiting room in court to say "sorry"... the bastard walked free.....

I have no sympathy at all for anyone who drives while under the influence... I lost a friend.. but her family lost a lot more.... I'd hate to have to go through that for one of my kids...... and even more so I'd hate to have to live with that on my conscience...

have a safe Christmas and New Year...

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: InOBU
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 08:48 AM

Jeeze alison! Thanks for bringing this back to the serrious issue it is. There is not much to say about how we all send our best wishes at the memory, but we do, Slan agus beannact, Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Midchuck
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 08:56 AM

I hadn't read this thread when it was up before.

The pattern for most of the people posting to it (including me) seems to be "I did it when I was younger, and I was lucky, but I don't now, and you shouldn't either."

Where do you draw the line between the greater wisdom of maturity, and a double standard?

Peter.

P. S. We ought to have some rule about bringing the Bush/Gore thing, gratuitously, into a thread that has nothing to do with it. Maybe a rule that if a guy does it, he has to sleep with Mrs. Bush and Mrs. Gore, and make conversation with each of them....

P.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Kc
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 09:26 AM

Well, It seems 2 me that U have all stoped drinkin' an a drivin' a long time ago.

I'm only 17, and here in Britain i'm old enough to drive, or ride ( i've got a 50cc scooter), I've read most of this thread (it took ages) but even before i read it i decided when i got my scooter that i would not touch one drop of alcohol if i had to ride home that night. Many a friend of mine has driven drunk, and not been caught. Personally i'm disgusted with it. It just proves how irresponsible they can be. I don't know what they'd do if NEthing ever happened, like trashin the car or hittin' someone. I hope they never do it again. Most of em promised not 2 but i don't believe half of em.

Kc


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Grab
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 09:54 AM

Maybe a rule that if a guy does it, he has to sleep with Mrs. Bush and Mrs. Gore, and make conversation with each of them....

Mrs. Bush looks a bit boring, but rock chick Tipper would be much more fun! And you never know, maybe they both go like trains...

Re KC, I'm sure it's a factor of society. As you know (but the US catters may not), in Britain we have anti-drink-drive ads on TV which are designed to shock (the most recent ones are using actual police footage of the clean-up operation). The result is that over time, the message has got through that drinking and driving is not socially acceptable, or it's too dangerous to risk it, so there's much less tolerance of it. Certainly it still happens over here, but it's not as common as it was, and it's certainly not something you'll hear ppl telling jokes about now as you used to. Whether the same is true in the US, I don't know.

Grab.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Gary T
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 10:11 AM

Grab, I think we in the U.S. are getting there slowly. Slowly.

Kc, you've made a good decision. I doubt anyone's ever regretted staying sober to drive. It's the Russian Roullette principle--there's only a 15% chance of having a problem, but if you're in that unlucky 15%, you have 100% of a problem, and a big one at that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 12:33 PM

Just playing devil's advocate here.... people are basically FORCED to take a breathalyzer test if they are pulled over for suspicion of DUI. Is that not a violation of one's Fifth Amendment right not to incriminate oneself? If you refuse the test it's an automatic guilty.

One night I was coming home from a scrapbook party where I had nothing to drink but instant hot apple cider. There was a roadblock on my way home. I was questioned not once, but twice, by two different law enforcement officials. And I was as sober as the day was long! And they were shining flashlights in my car and peeking in as if I had done something wrong. There were at least twenty local police and state troopers operating this roadblock. While I understand the necessity of such operations, I personally felt very harrassed by the whole thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Gary T
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 12:51 PM

Kim, presumably an officer needs probable cause to request a breathalizer test, and in fact even to stop an individual car. So far, however, courts have ruled that the public good achieved by "drunk driver checkpoints" supersedes the concern for the accessory violation of the right to freedom from unnecessary search and seizure. Once the car is stopped and the police can observe the driver's behavior and any other clues (odor of alcohol, empty booze containers inside, etc.), they can usually claim some sort of probable cause to administer the breath test.

In a similar vein, law officers go on "fishing expeditions" whenever they scan a highway with speed radar guns. They can probably squirm around any protest by claiming it looked like that car was speeding and they therefore had probable cause.

It's the old trade-off between freedom and security. Was it Benjamin Franklin who said, "He who gives up freedom for security deserves neither" (or something like that)?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: kendall
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 01:15 PM

I was having dinner with Tommy Makem, swapping stories, and he told me about a friend of his in Ireland. Seems he got drunk, drove toward home, side swiped 4 cars and fetched up against a light pole. A cop came to the scene, asked the man if he had been drinking. The man said "Yes, I have, in fact, I've had a lot to drink..why?" cop said "You are going to have to take a breathalizer test." the drunk says "Why? dont you believe me"? Is that more what you were looking for Doug? Seriously, I never drive drunk...I never HAVE driven drunk, and I see no reason to.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 01:18 PM

What a weird thread. "How can I take risks with the lives of maybe hundreds of innocent people, and still not have to pay for my crime?"

Run for president, Doug.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: NightWing
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 06:25 PM

Kim,

It is not a violation of one's Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination. According to legal decisions from all levels, driving (having a driver's license) is not a right, but a privilege. In most states, it would actually be legal for the state to suspend a driver's license completely at random, for no reason at all. (Limits to this, of course, but it's really the case.)

Further, one of the things a driver agrees to in accepting the privilege of possessing a driver's license is that he/she will obey the rules of the road. That means even if the rules change, the driver has to know them. So in any state with an Implied Consent rule (about 45?), a driver has (legally) already given their consent to a breathalizer or blood test simply by holding a drivers license.

An interesting side effect: in some of the states, that same rule -- Implied Consent -- actually means that an officer can make anyone with a driver's license take a breathalizer or blood test at any time, regardless of whether they were driving or not. That is, you could literally be enjoying a beer on your front porch and be forced to take a breathalizer or blood test by the officer driving by, simply because you have a driver's license.

It's a problem with the way that the original Implied Consent law was worded. I understand that most states are trying to get this taken OUT of the Implied Consent rule.

On to the original question. I got a DUI three and a half years ago. I deserved it and I deserved the punishment I got. (Hell! I deserved a lot more than what I got.) I went to the judge at my court date and said (basically), "Your Honor, I plead guilty. I was wrong and I know it. I hope you'll be gentle, but I don't deserve it."

I did indeed get nearly the lightest sentence allowed for a first offense under my state's law. To date, it has cost me approximately $8,000 over three years (considering fines, public service, required counseling, insurance, cab fares, etc) and will continue to cost plenty (neighborhood of $800-$1,000 per year) for another two years. The heaviest sentence allowed in my state would have cost me four or five times as much money, and could have given me as much as a year in jail.

Yes, driving drunk is stupid ... immensely so.

But jail and fines ain't the worst. Note the comments from people who have been hit by drunks among our crew. What 53 posts before this one and I think about 10 said they had been hit themselves or had someone close to them hit by a drunk. MADD (Mother's Against Drunk Driving, who I am ashamed to admit I worked for BEFORE I got my DUI) claims that around 75% of all Americans will be affected (themselves or a family member) by a drunk-driving accident during their lives. Around half of those "affects" will be deaths.

For the people who griped about the moralistic tone of some of the posts here, I disagree. You can't be too moralistic about this. Drunk driving is so far beyond stupidity as to reach malice.

I make no claim to being an angel in this issue. I did it (many times before I was caught). I was caught and punished. I will never do it again.

That doesn't mean I don't drink or that I am moralistic about alcohol. By no stretch of the imagination *G* Indeed, I am among that 1/3 of 1/3 (it's 11% not 15%) of all Americans that Roger in Baltimore described above as heavy drinkers. I drink at a bar downtown (with a bus almost straight to my place and at a bar across the street (crawling distance from home). If I'm away from there I have an agreement with several friends: one of us drives, the rest drink. We take turns and we watch out for each other. On many occasions we have spent the night when the Designated Driver decided to celebrate, too. On one occasion, I noticed (fairly early) that the Designated Driver had decided to celebrate. Since I actually needed to get home that night, I cut myself off and drove us all home about five hours later.

There may be "reasons" why people drink and drive. There are no "excuses". Never!

BB,
NightWing

P.S. Hmm, I got quite a bit more excited than I had intended there. Oh well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 07:04 PM

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: jaze
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 03:16 PM

This is just too close to home for me not to comment. DON'T DO IT! No one intends to harm or kill any one when driving after drinking. And I didn't intend to be buying my daughter a tombstone for Christmas this year. Everyone, please be safe this Holiday season. I know this was meant in jest, but this can be a scary time of year. Be safe and happy. We want to hear from you in 2001.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 04:10 PM

"According to legal decisions from all levels, driving (having a driver's license) is not a right, but a privilege."

It's just as well they didn't have cars back in the 18th century, or some eejit would have put a bit in the constitution about "a right to drive cars"...

I'm always getting stopped late at night after music sessions. They take one look at me, and they reach for the breathalyser. But I think they're quite pleased I'm never near the limit.

Actually it's worth pointing out that if you drive when you've missed a meal and your blood sugar's low, you're probably as incapacitated as if you've had a few drinks. (That doesn't mean I'm saying "Drinking is no more dangerous than missing a meal". I'm saying the opposite - "Missing a meal can be as dangerous as drinking")


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 05:42 PM

What IS the limit over there, McGrath? I think the U. S. either has or is going to change it to a lower firgure. If states don't go along with what the Feds want, they risk losing highway funds.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Sorcha
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:25 PM

Right now, in most US states, .10%+ is "drunk" and .08% is "impaired". Yes, there is a major lobby to reduce "drunk" to .08%.

And Nightwing was correct in all statements concerning privilige, implied consent, etc. Usually, however, a breathalyzer is not administered without using field sobriety tests first--the Alphabet, walk 9 steps heel to toe, head back with eyes closed and touch nose with both index fingers simutaneously,,,etc.

Probable cause can be almost ANYHTING--bright lights, tail light out, speeding, weaving, etc. HOWEVER, in the US,if there is a roadblock and ALL--REPEAT ALL cars are stopped in the same manner for the same reason, it is legal because it is not discriminatory.

I too am curious about the legal limit in other countries....


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: John Routledge
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 06:51 PM

Thank you McGrath of Harlow.

Can we all bear in mind that driving with less than 100% of our powers is potentially fatal - even without alcohol.

Think on everyone. GB


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: alison
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 11:29 PM

still thinking of you Jaze... its a hard time of year to get through.....

love

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 11:37 PM

This thread sucked the first time around. And here we are rehashing it on account of some drunks "fool-proof" method of how this time's gonna be different and a newfangled way for an alcoholic to drink like a gentleman.
Don't drink before you drive and you will almost invariably beat the breathalizer.
Would we be having this conversation if it was about trying to get away with randomly killing people some other way?

BS: How to escape from a Post Office after shooting your co-workers?

rant off

Rich


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 12:17 AM

Rich: I was happy as a lark when this thread died. DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Sorcha
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 12:44 AM

Dammit, Doug, we keep telling you this was a worthwhile subject, even if not the semi-joke you thought you were starting..........it IS OK, man!! People need to know these things......and aaaaarrrrrrgggggghhhhhh to you to, dearie!! LOL.......


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Banjer
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:44 AM

Yes Doug, don't apologize for something that sends as clear a message as this thread does. Espscially at this thime of year. If I drove to a party I will drink nothing but soft drinks, I can be a designated driver, hovewer if I was driven to the party as I was last night, I can be a designated drunk! (as I almost was!)

Serious note time...When my kids were growing up there lived a few houses down a mother and her two sons. The older of the two, Denny, was a very wonderful kid. Always happy and cheerful. Many's the time I would come home from work and Denny would be here, (he spent more time at my house than at his) and my day of drudgery would fall behind me because of his silly antics. When he turned 16, he got a job as a bagger in a local grocery store. Most nights he would stop by our house to say hi to the kids and even sometimes come and ask me some advice since there was no father in his life. We talked a lot. One night around 8PM, we heard sirens not far from our house. We thought nothing of it becasue we hear them a lot living not far from a major thoroughfare. Denny was to be at our house after he got off from work. Denny didn't show up and I got a feeling of dread....sure enough, the sirens were sounding for him! He had been hit by a drunk driver who left the scene. The following day he was declared brain dead and life support was removed. The guy eventually turned himself in, but what little he got will never bring back a vibrant youg lad like Denny.

Please, enjoy the Holidays, but be careful!


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Marc
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 04:43 PM

I may get slapped for saying this but I will.Mind you I don't condone drunk driveing but the laws are not fair. I also was stupid many years ago, pled guilty, took my lumps, learnd my lesson, and proceeded to try to get on with my life. Being a proffessional musician, I find myself on the road late at night all the time. Having long hair and a beard, i'm allways getting pulled over, which is very anoying. About six months agoI was on my way home from a gig in Ct.,(I live in RI), when I got pulled over again. The trooper in the customary rude manner asked had I any thing to drink.Not having anything to hide I told him I had had 1 beer after coming of stage, which was the truth. Well in his opinion I failed the field test so I was halled in. Insisting that I was not drunk, when he offered me the breathalizer I agreed to take it. He then told that Ct. had a new law that said, any alchohol what so ever could be used to c0onvict a prior offender. and that he didn't think it was a good idea for me to take the test. I've since found out his information was inaccurate, however I followed his advice. Now I'm $5,000 into a case where i'm totaly innocent, I expect to spend another $5,000, and I never did anything wrong. I have mad mothers harrasing me at court and calling my house, all i'm doing is trying not to go to jail for something I didn't do, and its costing me dearly both financialy and imotionaly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 10:58 PM

Marc: I don't know whether the law is wrong, or you just got stopped by a asshole cop. Sounds like the latter, to me.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Marc
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:23 AM

Accually, my problem isn't really with the cop. My problem is that along with the acusation, comes a presumption of guilt. Lets just say that the cop thought it was a good bust. The system that follows the bust presumes guilt not innocence, the degree or likelyhood of my innocence hinges totaly on the depth of my purse. If I don't come up with many dollars I will go to jail. In the mean time I can't drive in the state where I got busted, and I'm concerned about booking very much elsewhere, incase I am found guilty and have to leave town for a while. Mind you there is no evidence against me what so ever. If this was a murder case it would be plead down. There are mad mothers calling my house and making comments to me on the steps of the court house, when I was just tired at 1:00 one morning.

Marc


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Dodi
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:09 AM

Me and Diana won't be driving with drunks anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 09:29 AM

DougR - There's loads of times I've said things without thinking, but its a SWINE when it just won't go away! It should be back to haunt you sometime about March I reckon.... 'Went down like a lead balloon' is an understatement innit? Kris


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:49 AM

Kris: I'm not sure I follow you. Are you referring to my original posting? Evidently a lot of folks think it was a worthwhile post. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have posted it though. It caused too much turmoil to too many good people.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: UB Ed
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 01:18 PM

Wow. This started last Labor Day? Kudos to the December 15th Guest who resurrected this from a September 7 last post (Doug, I know you're pleased but let it go, man. You done good). Think how long it took them to find it!

New Years is a time to consider the ramifications, as well as St Patricks. I guess all we need do is start an email chain letter with a link to this thread?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 01:44 PM

"What IS the limit over there, McGrath? " - I can't remember the technical figure. But the rule iofvthumb for asomeone of my size and weight would be that two pints of beer and you'd be pushing your luck. They may be bringing it down sometime.

So any time I'm out at a session I'll stick to shandy, and probably no more than two pints of that, to keep on the safe side. That's equivalent to a pint of beer.

Marc's story sounds hairy. Here, if they stop you (they always have some reason, but in fact it's random if you've had anything to drink, they'll automatically breath-test you on the spot (well, you could refuse and have to go in and get blood or urine tested - and I suppose someone who'd been drinking to the limit might choose that).

So long as you've been sensible, it's just a chance to gossip about the weather or whatever and get a couple of minutes break from driving. The idea that a different limit might apply to someone who's been convicted previously is a novel one to me. Of course the penalties if guilty might be stepped up, but that's different. The main penalty anyway is being disqualified.

As Geordie Broon pointed out "driving with less than 100% of our powers is potentially fatal" - and driving when you're tired is another of the things to watch out for whuich don't get the same attention as drink does.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 06:24 PM

McGrath: In Arizona, if you are over the limit (.10) it is automatic ten days in jail. Plus fines, plus you lose your driver's license for thirty days. You also have to attend a counseling class for four to six weeks, one or two nights a week. The ten days jail sentence, if it is a first offense actually is cut to two or three days (over a weekend, I believe). If you are picked up a second time, I believe there is an automatic jail sentence of thirty days, and you serve the full term, plus loss of license and fines and God knows what else.

The higher the reading, the higher the penalty.

It definitely is not a good idea to drive while drinking.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 06:28 PM

What Doug says just above is generally true in the Sates, but all 50 states are different. And yes, many states have provisions for "repeat" offenders......they vary from state to state, but it sounds to me like Marc did get a bum rap. I does happen, and I am one of the first to admit that, but the Law preferrs to err on the side of caution here.

New Year's Eve--I am STAYING HOME IN FRONT OF MY FIREPLACE!! And hoping our kids aren't too stoopid....


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,one who doesnt drink drive anymore
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 07:51 PM

Couple of points.

1. Many police departments are purchasing a special flashlight alcohol sensor - so when it is close to your face it will give an alcohol reading. Its being used as another aid to detect drinking drivers and I think its a great idea.

2. In Canada even though there is a legal limit, it is up to the police officers discretion whether you may drive or not in fact you may be issued with a one day drivers license suspension even if you are below the limit or even without taking a breathalyzer. (also a great idea)

In fact I myself received a one day suspension when after a party I decided that I had too much to drink and after driving a few blocks pulled over to sleep it off in the car. At 4 am there was a knock on my window (Id forgotten to turn the parking lights off) The police gave me the suspension (even though I wasnt driving) and without any breathalyzer. I had an expensive cab ride home and lost my license for a day.

I agree this is a serious topic but here is one case of how to beat the breathalizer. Based on an actual case in Czechoslovakia, collected by a lawyer turned folksinger.

A family drove to a wedding reception in the country and of course there was a bit of drinking too much. At one point in the party a couple of children (around 8 yrs) snuck off with some liquor to the barn, Of course their parents later found them quite sloshed. On the drive home the father of one of the kids found himself at a roadblock and because he'd had too much to drink became quite worried. When the police officer asked him to blow in to the balloon which turned colour indicating alcohol, the father quickly suggested, 'theres got to be something wrong with that, look try it on the kid in the back, everyone knows kids dont drink. They did and now the police were surprised and figured that indeed something was wrong with the breathalyzer and waved them on.

If youre going to drink and drive make sure you have a car.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:22 PM

But you can still get to be President anyway...

The 30 days disqualification is a lot less than you'd get here, even for a fractional amount over the limit. But the jail is a lot more. Swings and roundabouts.

Every band should have a Mormon or a Muslim on the strength.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 08:31 PM

When I used to race Irish currachs (ocean canoes) we had an entire crew from Turkey, who were the permanant designated drivers. Very handy, as once we won a case of whiskey and traded half of it with the second place crew who won a case of beer. Two of our rowers, Dave-o and Hmmm I forget who... passed out in each other's arms in the crowded van (about twenty five rowers, - having vomited all over each other. When we arived at the boat yard, I opened the side door and turned a hose on Dave-o and the other fella. Dave-o opend one eye as he was being sprayed cleanish by the VERY cold water, and smiled - "Ah tanks Lehrry!" says he. Thank God (Allah?) for Turkish rowers! Happy and peaceful Ramadan to Kubili, Tameer and Lavant where ever you guys are!
Larry


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Jimmy
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:43 PM

A piper friend of mine who got pulled over in Scotland was told to blow firmly into the breathaliser and inadvertently exploded the plastic bag. Of course, he subsequently lost his licence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,GUEST
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:44 PM

My neighbor comes home from work every night with an openbeer can. Ten minutes after he is home,he is drunk as a skunk. that's because he immediately goes for the hard stuff. If Ireport him to the troopers he could lose his license & his job & his house. His Mother & Father would be out on the street. This is what stops me. What would you do?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 05:23 AM

Being drunk as a skunk ten minutes after he gets home isn't relevant, nothing to report. Nor is having an open beer can, it's not the beer in the cant that matters, it's only after it gets inside you there's any harm.

I suppose there are places where having an open can when you're a driver counts as some kind of offence, but that's technical stuff.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 07:08 AM

Doug - all I meant was that it's unfortunate when what is intended as a light-hearted conversational gambit turns out, on reflection, not to have been a good idea. Which is what I assume has happened. It happens to most people sometimes, but in verbal conversation it is more transient. Unfortunately, in threads things persist & as I was reading the responses I was feeling more & more sorry for the hapless original poster. I've been in the same boat on occasion (well, similar anyway) and just wanted to express some fellow-feeling.
As you say, it has proved a worthwhile thread - and I'm sure has been a very timely reminder of the consequences of drink-driving - but I think really I was just responding to your 'Arggggg' posting when it came back after three months. Kris


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 03:46 PM

Thanks, Kris, for posting that last message. Perhaps posting it was for the best, but when I saw it pop up agian, Arghhhhhhhhhh was all that came to mind.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 04:10 PM

Greetings all

The sad thing is that while we are very serious when it comes to driving while chemically impaired, we allow millions of elderly drivers to continue on - and many times the police and prosecuters give them breaks after causing accidents.

Few drunk drivers are so blitzed that they loose all regard for themselves and others. The most dangerous effects of using alcohol and other drugs and then driving are actually the diminishment of reaction time and the diminished ability to estimate distances. Unfortunately, aging has the same effect. How many millions of drivers are out there every day driving as if they are intoxicated? I guess it's a good thing most of them don't do too much drinking.

pax yall


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Car Talk fan
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 05:43 PM

I worked with someone whose friend was a nurse, working late, who killed a young man while driving home. She was bitterly upset about that and the subsequent court appearances, having been legally under the limit (she'd had one beer). The concensus was that she'd been impaired, not by the alcohol, but by her state of exhaustion. When are we going to insist that it's stupid for medical personnel to work when half their brain wants to be asleep? When are we going to quit worshipping Juggernaut? Visit cars.com, and the Car Talk campaign "Drive now, Talk later"


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 05:52 PM

Just a philosophical point. Drinking (in most places) isn't illegal. What a breathalizer test does is to identify potential bad drivers. Which seems to be suspiciously like profiling. Innit?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 19 Dec 00 - 11:55 PM

Greetings all

Like it was said somewhere above, Breathalizer tests are not, in any way, an infringement of rights. You do not have a right to drive a car - the state treats it as a privilage - like any other privilage it is subject to certain requirements - one being that in most states (if not all) signing your driver's license is signing a contract that you agree to take any and all sobriety tests the state asks you to take. That's why it is a crime to refuse to take a test.

I would recommend (as stated above) that if you feel that your are under the legal limit that you request a blood test - they are much more accurate and you get to meet those charming jail nurses!

Pax yall


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: alison
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 01:56 AM

Yep they have done surveys which show that driving home after your first night on night duty (subsequent nights aren't as bad because you should have had some sleep)your reaction times are the same as those who have had a few drinks (I can't remember exactly... but I think it was euivalent to just over the legal alcohol limit)......

I have worked permanent nights for 9 years, luckily where I work now, we get the chance for a short lie down (makes all the difference), but I know plenty of nurses who have "run into the back of someone" or had to pull off the road to have a sleep on the way home.......

slainte

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Dec 00 - 06:14 PM

Blackcatter- I'm not advocating (nor practicing) drunk driving. And I realize the legality of Breathalizer testing--I just question its morality. How about if someone decided that Afro-Americans (or Jews, or women or any other group) were more likely to be involved in accidents than the "average" driver? Would it be proper to deny them their driving privileges?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: blt
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 01:20 AM

Blackcatter, let me get this straight--are you saying that someone who has had enough alcohol in their system to fail a breathilizer test (that's about one beer or one shot of the hard stuff or one glass of wine per hour, in most states)or even more than enough, is somehow a safer driver than someone who is elderly?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 08:05 AM

blt,
the empirical response to your question is most probably 'yes' (depending upon the age from which on you say 'elderly'), but that should not matter. Why not?

The legal systems I know do mostly not acknowledge individual differences in abilities when it comes to having violated the traffic law. Many years ago, one of the world's top drivers (formula 1 car racing) was heavily fined in Switzerland when he drove more than twice as fast as the speed limit. He argued that due to his outstanding reaction time and abilities even at this speed he was at least as safe a driver as any normal driver at the allowed speed. The judge said that he was definitely less save than he was when driving at the allowed speed and that the only correct comparison is the person himself under different circumstances.

Imagine a world in which the speed limit (or the legal amount of alcohol) is decided individually and a young person (with a good reaction time) is allowed a higer speed than his grandad and the heavy drinker (for being used to the intoxication) is allowed a higher amount of alcohol. Doesn't work.

The relevant decision in Germany was a young driver who had an accident while driving listening to music so loud that he was unable to hear the police siren. He said that he was innocent since deaf persons are allowed to drive in Germany and they also cannot hear sirens. He was declared guilty for disabeling himself by loud music and it was stated that he was driving less safe than he could have and that the ability of a really deaf driver is not the correct comparison.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:15 AM

Good points Wolfgang. BTW...Keke Rossberg?

To Blackcat's defense in a way, I believe he lives in a state (Florida) where there really are an inordinate number of elderly people behind the wheel and its a much discussed problem. I've spent a good bit of time in Florida and in certain areas playing "Dodge the Coot" is a necessity and heightens your defensive driving skills. Also, Karen's grandparents moved to Florida in their late 70's and one of the most frightening times I have EVER spent in any vehicle (and I raced a few) was going out to supper one evening with her grandad driving.

On the one hand, I like to play the freedom game too and it was scary to watch the "Smoking Legislation" take effect. On the other hand, drunks/impaired drivers behind the wheel are a helluva' lot scarier to me than some fatass cigar smoker.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 10:25 AM

Spaw, I wouldn't have withheld the name of the driver if I would have been even moderately sure. If pressed I'd say it was Clay Regazzoni, but would be far from betting on it.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Frank Five
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 12:23 AM

To all of the folks out there who said "Don't Drink and Drive" and point to the legality of the matter, I say this...one should be innocent until proven guilty and until a crime is committed. Those who opt for safety before freedom do not deserve to live in a free country. There are plenty of communist, facist, socialist countries in the world where you are welcome to live. I suggest you move there.

As for the original question...I would like to hear of some geunine scientific way to beat a breathalizer test. I've heard that Zimas dont register, but I can't confirm that. The long term solution will be to weed our country of the facist and paranoid prudes who help litter our legal system with things like drunk driving laws....or maybe technology will provide us with auto pilot cars/roads in our lifetime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 12:54 AM

Thank you Guest Frank Five for revitalizing a thread I wish I had never started. If your purpose is to creat chaos, you've made a pretty good start.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 01:04 AM

Fellow Catters, if you know a way to beat the breathalyser please keep it to yourself, it could encourage people to drink and drive.The drink drive laws are there for a very good reason, the figures speak for themselves, in the UK a quater of all the people killed on the roads are above the drink drive limit. In 1991 I was convicted of drink driving, I was fined heavily, lost my licence and my job ( I am a delivery driver), I was lucky, I could have lost my life or ruined somebody elses.I will NEVER drink and drive again, even a small amount of alcohol can affect your driving skills, I was lucky enough to find a job, I have driven thousands of miles, and seen enough accidents to know it is just not worth it.People often discuss how they can fool speed cameras, radar detectors, fancy number plates etc, the answer is easy just don't speed.
Guest Frank-You are welcome to call me nazi or fascist if you like, but I have seen people die on the roads,(not pleasant).john


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,GUEST of a .garyole's ...gargoyle
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 01:46 AM

You CANNOT beat a BLOOD test

However, as mentioned in a previous MC posting.....and since we are ALL musicians of "one sort or another"..... and since this is a muscical "technique" it is "worthy" of discussion within THIS forum....... M.A.D viewpoints be damned!!!!(Someone has illegally accessed my driving records.....and knows my arrests!)

If you understand the playing of a wind-instrument....you also understand how a brass/woodwind player is able to "extend-the-note/breath" by "sucking-in through the nose" while "blowing-out through the lungs."

This creates a phenominum of physics, (observed both in water and gasses) known as the "Venturi Effect."

In regard to a "breathalizer test"....this "refined musical technique" permits the blending of "non-bodily-outside-air" with "lung-capacity-air." Therefore, the reading could register below the given state's requirment.....IF DONE OCRRECTLY!!!!(Wind people you know what I mean.

Personally,.... my own personal musical-coordination GOES TO HELL,...after less than half of a beer....If you expect to play well...stay sober and let those who are paying your fees party-hearty.....When its ALL OVER then "have brew with crew."

Moved to a small state, with far fewer stop lights.... to avoid the "madness" of the metropolitan areas....which, from necessity, REQUIRE sober drivers, to differentiate between green and red.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 01:49 AM

A Breathalyzer® measures the amount of alcohol in expired air. The alcohol comes from blood passing through the lungs and, along with carbon dioxide and stuff, is exchanged for oxygen. Any method one uses to get alcohol into one's bloodstream should cause it to register on the Breathalyzer.

Here in Iowa, refusal to take a Breathalyzer test will result in a much longer license suspension if convicted. On the other hand, without evidence from a Breathalyzer, it's much more difficult to convict.

Don't drink and drive!

      - Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,'gargoyle
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 01:49 AM

Doug R

WHY DID YOU BRING THIS SHIT UP AGAIN....????

It is old and exhausted!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 02:07 AM

gargoyle-Doug did not refresh this thread, a Guest did.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 11:49 AM

Nope, Garg, not guilty. I'd like to see this thread permanently eliminated.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Butch
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 01:35 PM

I will make this simple, beat the brewath test and I find out, then the only thing beaten will be you!

I am not a violent man, BUT, I was a police officer from 1986-1995. A drunk blew out my knees with his Buick. I will never walk witout pain again. Is this bad--- NO. I lived! I am now a volunteer friefighter. I see many who are mamed and killed every year by A--holes who think they can beat the breath test. Just do me two favors: 1) Don't tell me you ever drive drunk, you won't like me when I am mad 2) When (not if) you finally crash, don't kill anyone else. You won't like God when HE is mad either!


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Cobble
Date: 20 Aug 01 - 02:04 PM

There are two ways to beat the breathalizer..

If you Drink DON'T DRIVE

If you Drive DON'T DRINK

Mrs C.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 09:52 AM

Dear Frank Five; What about all the innocent people killed by drunk drivers?? They rarely kill themselves you know. My beautiful 15 y/o daughter and two 16 y/o boys were killed last sept. by a drunk driver. What about their freedom and right to live out their lives?? You go find a country that doesn't care about protecting people's freedom to live at the expense of stupid people who can't control themselves.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 10:01 AM

... for all this 'don't drive if you drink' talk, I find it amazing that every day when I work I see rooms full of people drinking alcohol, sometimes for hours on end - and then they all get in their cars and drive home.

As a musician when I drive home at 1, 2 or 3 in the morning, every night I see drivers on the road who are obviously drunk. And the bars full of people are all over town, and this same behavior occurs in every town in America. Let's face it; we don't practice what we preach! We don't really want 'no drink and drive' laws.

Reasonable blood alcohol level standards, and quick accurate tests (like the breath tests) should be one effective means of enforcing drunk driving laws ... but we must take drunk driving convictions very seriously and assign strong punitive punishments, we must press the criminality of accidents, injuries and deaths on those who drive drunk, and we must effectively prohibit habitual drunk drivers from the roads.

Because most Americans have some level of sympathy with drinking and driving, we allow too much leniency in the enforcement of the drun driving laws we have. We give too many second, third, fourth chances, juries too often and easily acquit drunk driving defendents, and we do not support very strict drunk driving legislation.

I don't drink, so it's easy for me to say; first drunk driving conviction is jail time, in a lock-up rehab program, loss of license for one year, no easy ways out. Subsequent convictions progress through harsher punishments.

But we are a very tolerant society, and we always hope the offender will learn, and if someone expresses regret for their actions, we want to treat them as kindly as possible. So we allow drinking and driving to be abused by many - and suffer the consequences when drunks kill us, our families or our police officers.

Most people enjoy a drink or few ... and most people are mindful of their drinking when they have to drive. The line of limit is a bit vague, and we do not always know if we've had too much or if we're OK - so we are sympathetic to those who are caught by strict drunk driving laws. But I know, because of years of experience in bars, pubs, festivals, that many people drink way too much and then drive ... they are NOT the ones with whom we should be sympathetic.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 10:22 AM

Heerself and I have a fool-proof method: I drink, she drives. More of a problem is the increased number of speed cameras. I'm getting a rictus from smiling at them all.
RtS ("Smile? So that's why they never recognise you!")


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 10:33 AM

I haven't even read the responses to know if this is redundant, I apologize to the other members of the 'Cat if so.

That said:

I am more than a little outraged that anyone would: A) *want* to do such, and B) Think to post same to the internet.

There are thousands of lives lost every year due to people doing this very thing. If you want to get stewed, do it at home, get a friend to drive you, take a taxi, walk, whatever. But stay the hell out from behind the wheel!


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 10:56 AM

OK, my apologies to all. I really should have read the responses before going off half cocked.

There are few things like this subject to get ones heart pounding, especially those of us with kids. My apologies for allowing my maternal instincts to override my netiquette.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Gareth
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 03:10 PM

A file passed my desk this morning.

Drunk, dont matter who, dont matter where in the UK.

Head on collision.

Score so far.

Human Cost 1 - Drunk DOA
1 - mother DOA
1 - father still in a coma - believed major brain damage.
2 - children still wondering when thier parents will come home
1 grieving widow
Number unknown - Police, Paramedics, Fire Brigade traumatised, and also off the run for other emergancies
Ditto - Hospital Emergancy rooms and staff.

Financial Estimated cost to insurance company ? ie what it will cost at the end of the day. say £1,700,000.00 say US$ 3,000,000.00 including legal fees. All of which has ultimately to be paid for by other motorists.
God knows what it cost the NHS, the Emergancy Services etc.

And no, this disaster will not be comemorated in song. No posthumous decoration like "John Axon". No "Scotch Lords at his feet". No "Lord Mayor of London's collecting".

Does any IDIOT still think it clever to drink and drive ?

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Marc
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 05:02 PM

Just because this was refreshed. I was arrested on 7/21/00,(see above post 12/17/00). Finally in Jan.'01, a not guilty plea was excepted, however not untill I signed a form waving my right to speedy trial,( the Constitutional Right to a just and speedy trial is evidently reserved for those willing to plea bargain). Prior to my plea I was being threatened with 120 days. Upon accepting my plea, His Honor informed me that should I be convicted, he would see to it I do 3 years. It's been 13 mounths since my arrest, I've yet to recieve a trial date, and I'm still not sure how far into the future I should book. I wasn't doing anything, and most of you folk sound like you think this treatment is justified.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 06:03 PM

Marc's anecdote brings up another point: Know the drunk-driving laws in your state (or the state in which you are driving) BEFORE you drink ANYTHING alcoholic and get behind the wheel, because once you're impaired you're at a disadvantage when trying to discern the correctness or incorrectness of a policeman's statements about the law.

In my state, yes, the penalties are tougher for an offender with a prior conviction, and a 3-year sentence for a repeat offender sounds similar to the law here. Was Marc a repeat offender, in this case? Not knowing the reason for which he was pulled over, nor what his blood-alcohol level was, I cannot say.

But one of the points of this thread is that ANY alcohol consumed will impair one's driving to SOME extent. Even "one beer" can affect your ability to concentrate and to react quickly enough to make a split-second maneuver that would avoid an accident.

When "GUEST,Frank Five" refreshed this thread, he said: "...one should be innocent until proven guilty and until a crime is committed." Agreed that, legally, one should be CONSIDERED innocent... but if you drink more than the legal limit and then drive, you ARE committing a crime whether you are convicted or simply arrested or even not caught!

And if you drink LESS than the legal limit and then drive, you may have a reason to proclaim your innocence of a crime in the courts, but it's still an unwise, dangerous thing to do. In the sense that one knowingly, purposefully does something that endangers his life and the lives of others, one is certainly not "innocent".

Best course of action to avoid legal hassles AND potential tragedy: don't drive if you have had ANYTHING alcoholic to drink, and don't drink ANYTHING alcoholic if you are going to drive the same day! No excuses, no attempts to "beat" the system or the machinery, no "just" one beer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: jaze
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 06:11 PM

Marc, we're not condemning you. It's well known laws are not always fair. And for your sake I really hope things work out. But people who are legitimately drunk and driving should be punished strongly. Too many lives are torn apart at the expense of someone's fun. I know people don't INTEND to harm or kill when they've been drinking and then drive, but everyone knows how often it happens. It's far wiser and safer for everyone just to NOT do it. And trying to beat a breathalizer is just plain stupid. Sorry, Doug R. I know you wish this would go away, but this seems to be the soapbox I've been assigned. I promise I won't prolong this any further. James


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 06:47 PM

Marc, can I ask a [stupid, but obvious] question?

If you weren't doing anything then why were you arrested?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 06:50 PM

Sorry Marc. I retract the question. I didn't read the entire thread before posting it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: SharonA
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 07:07 PM

But Marc, you stated, back in December, that you'd had one beer after your gig, then were detained "when I was just tired at 1:00 one morning." Sorry, Marc, that one doesn't fly. You weren't "just" tired, you were tired AND you'd had that beer after your gig. How long was it between the beer and the 1:00 a.m. pull-over? Let me repeat what Roger in Baltimore (an addictions professional) posted:

"For most people, two drinks in one hour will put them above the 0.05 % [blood-alcohol] level. It will take two hours for the body to process most of that alcohol. A reasonable guideline then is less than one drink an hour and nothing to drink two hours before driving. You got that, class?"

So if you'd had that beer less than 2 hours before you were stopped (and you don't say what size beer), you may indeed have registered as being over the legal blood-alcohol limit had you taken the Breathalyzer test. We'll never know.

But I surmise, from your protest that you were "just" tired, that denial is a factor here.

----------------

For my own part, I don't play gigs in bars. I feel that I would be promoting drunk driving by presenting myself as an attraction to draw people out to a bar and drink, knowing that they would then drive home. If someone injured or killed himself or someone else driving drunk on the way home from a gig of mine, I couldn't live with myself for playing a part in that tragedy.

SharonA


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 07:22 PM

Yes, James, I sincerely wish this thread would go away and I wrote Joe Offer requesting that it be purged forever. It does not fit the criteria Max and Joe have established for purging threads so I'm stuck with it.

I am pleased to note that sentiment is running 100+ to one that one should not drive when impaired, and most agree that driving after even having had one drink should be avoided.

My son was arrested for DUI three years ago, and it is one of the best things that has happend to him. It cost him, to be sure. Three nights in "Tent City," and several thousand dollars. He also had to go to extensive counseling. However, since that time he WILL not even THINK of driving if he has had even a sip of alcohol.

I am just grateful that he was not in an automobile accident which could have hurt or killed either himself or someone else.

So post away, the thread is here as long as you wish to make use of it.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 03:03 AM

If the world was serious about cracking down on drunk drivers, there would be a breathalizer in the starter of your car, that if you blew over, would disable your car...

Not likely to happen is it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 04:25 AM

After 17 1/2 years off of alcoholic drinks, I thank God I flunked that breathalizer test. I got a new and better life than the 1 drunk year I expected to possibly live through at the time.


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: SharonA
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 08:19 AM

Clinton: I've heard that such a device (a personal breathalyzer as a standard item in your car) is in the works, but whether it will ever actually hit the market is open to question.

I'd like to make another point about drinking as it relates to impairment when operating any kind of machinery: if you are taking a prescription drug, FIND OUT about its side effects when mixed with alcohol in your system. If your medication pamphlet states that you should not drink while taking it, DON'T!! If the pamphlet states the medication can affect your ability to drive, USE ADDED CAUTION and, for goodness' sake, DON'T reduce that ability further by drinking! If the pamphlet doesn't say anything about its effect on your driving abilities, ASK YOUR DOCTOR OR PHARMACIST anyway, just to make sure!

Whether you think you can "beat the system" or not, you can't beat your OWN system!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Wesley S
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 09:15 AM

And lets not forget all those hard working men and women called Taxi drivers. Keep their phone numbers handy when you go out. Better to pay them a few dollars then to pay the courts, the lawyers, the probation department { if you're lucky }, the insurance agents, ect......


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 09:24 AM

The problem I see with a personal breathalizer/starter is that you can falsify it, can you not? All one really need do is have someone else blow into it, and the engine starts, or am I missing some information (always possible!)?

Technology is wonderful, but even the most advanced can be foiled by the unscrupulous. What we need are more conscious and considerate inhabitants of planet earth, not more laws (or technology to inforce them).


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 09:58 AM

Threadcreep and fodder for thought: Why do some olympic sports control for alcohol as doping and exclude competitors with alcohol in the blood for the reason of unfair advantage?

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: GUEST,PAH
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 09:59 AM

DougR, You seem to be a little embarrassed that the thread was started and has now been refreshed. Don't be. It has stirred up some pretty good discussion and I hope will have very positive effects, for me anyway. I ALWAYS have a "packing up the equipment" pint at the end of the night which according to some of these posts, is not the best of ideas. I am tired at the end of the night and that one pint might just be enough.....who knows? I plan on starting a new packing up tradition at my next gig, perhaps a coffee? A water? And then a beer while I'm unpacking, after the van is parked for the night.

Thanks Doug, PAH


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 12:28 PM

PAH: No, THANK YOU! Sounds like a good plan.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: SharonA
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 01:30 PM

PAH: Great idea! But be careful: in Pennsylvania, at least, you can be arrested for being outside, drinking and/or drunk, with the car keys in your possession (for public drinking as well as for vehicle violations), since you are still considered to be in control of the vehicle. If the law's the same where you are, it's better to wait till after you unpack and are inside for the night, kicking back in your living room, to relax with that pint.

Sharon


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 02:09 PM

Funny laws in funny countries: The advice some of you gave (the driver stays sober) could get you punished in Germany, for a sober driver should know better than to drive with drunk people in the car who might be so drunk as to interfere with his driving.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: DougR
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 02:20 PM

That's a new one for me, Wolfgang. In the United States, it is common for one person in a group to be the designated driver if alcohol is to be consumed. If that person is stopped, for any reason, and proves to be sober if given the test, they go on their merry way even if all of the others in the car are plastered. At least that is my understanding of the law.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: Amergin
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 04:24 PM

A state policeman gave me a ride home one night....after arresting me...and giving me a ba....I blew under....but he was right I was still in no shape to drive...He told me that to bring a blanket with me next time....and sleep in the back seat...


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Subject: RE: BS: Beat the breathalizer?
From: iamjohnne
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 04:56 PM

I had no idea when I clicked on this thread what I was getting into. Doug you really did a good thing by bringing this up in the first place. I sit here a widow because my late hubby had to go back out just one last time. He was the one dui and by the grace of god didnt take anyone with him when he left this earth. Labor Day is coming folks. Stay home and party or dont drink when you drive.

Johnne "Goin' where the weather suits my clothes"


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This Thread Is Closed.


Mudcat time: 30 September 3:02 PM EDT

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