Kenneth Williams

Subject: Rambling Syd Rumpo
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:49 AM

Just finished reading "The Kenneth Williams Diaries" for the third time. Whooo, amazing book. It's painful to read the words of someone who made so many laugh, and be as miserable as he was. The one character of his that I'm not familiar with (other than the name...and that it was an obvious send-up) is "Rambling Syd Rumpo". Can any catters fill me in on the nature of his songs. My guess is there's some connection with Ramblin' Jack Elliot, but I would doubt if Williams was familiar with him. Brahms and Schubert seemed to be his thing.

Rick

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Naemanson
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:04 AM

I humbly stand before you, hat in hand, and ask nervously, "Who was Kenneth Williams?"

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Bagpuss
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:06 AM

WHO WAS KENNETH WILLIAMS???

He was narrator of Willo the Wisp!

Oh and I think he did a bit of acting and comedy on the side.

Ooooh Matron!

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:09 AM

Comedy British actor, most famous for the Carry On films, now deceased.

Rick, the only Rumpo character I can remember was Sid James as the Rumpo Kid in Carry On, Cowboy, with Jim Dale as Marshall P Nutt. Immortal.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GUEST,Ian M.
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:12 AM

Rambling Sid's songs were brief travesties of English agricultural songs using the vocabulary of such songs to create double-entendres.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:18 AM

Rambling Syd Rumpo was a character in a radio programme called "round the horne" He used to sing in a fake west country accent and called everyone his "dearios" and Iremember him singing a song about his "mangleworzels" He was very funny and I wish I could have seen a live performance. I too have read his diaries and was very upset to find him such a tortured individual
Patrish

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Bagpuss
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:26 AM

All the great comedians seem to be tortured. Williams, Tony Hancock, Spike Milligan (who has manic depression).

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:27 AM

Yah Patrish, the guy seemed to hate everything about himself EXCEPT his talent.

Thanks Ian. I thought they might be parodies on "the ramblin' (American) hobo" theme. Never heard the "Round The Horne" shows, but I gather they were hilarious. I've heard folks say that they were superior to "Hancock".

Hi Naemanson. I wanted to post this last night before I went to bed so that the Brits would see it, but couldn't get it through. Not surprised you haven't heard of Ken W. He never came to North America and the only reason I'm familiar with him is from his connection with the Hancock program. (oh, and the "Carry Ons"...but they weren't his best work)

Rick

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Naemanson
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:28 AM

Oh! Thanks.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GUEST,Crazy Eddie
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:30 AM

Rick Fielding,
Ramblin' Sid Rumpo' was a radio character. I think it was in a programme called 'Round the Horne' but not sure.
A friend lent me a tape once, and he was instantly recognisable as Kemnneth.

From the one episode I heard, Ramblin Sid was a spoof folk-music artist & collector.

The format seemed to be that he gave a short account of his recent travels, discussed the source of a song, then sang it. The one I heard had lines like: "I've been a ramble-o, a wander-o,around the country-o, a drivin' of by Bently Continental-o" He then explained that he'd learned this song from the herring fishermen of the village of (ridiculous made-up name) who fish from traditional wooden rowing boats. They are a sad & contemplative people, 'cos the village is 50 miles inland. He then sang a slow air with much innuendo, and many nonsensical made-up words which ALMOST sound like a dialect. The only words I remember are "I've broken my cord-wangle."
Naemanson, Kennith Williams was an English comic. He was usally camp in the extreme. He featured in most of the best "Carry on" movies ........'Ooooooh Matron'.......as well as other movies.He also did stage and radio.

His delivery of the line 'Frying Tonight' in "Carry on Screaming" still makes me almost ill with laughter, and is widely regarded as a classic comedy moment. Many would regard him as a comic genius, but as Rick said his private life was far from happy.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:36 AM

I believe the BBC re-released Rambling Syds recordings on CD soon after KW's demise but I have not been sucesful in acquiring a copy - Anyone out there know how I can lay my hands on one?

Incidentaly I think it was Kenneth, as caesar, who delivered the line "Infamy, Infamy. The've all got it infamy" in Carry on Cleo - another classic.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:36 AM

Jeezus Crazy Eddie, I'm convinced! Just the premise (the inland fishing village) makes me laugh. Now to try and find out how to get one of these recordings!

Rick

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: sledge
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:45 AM

Round the Horne is available on BBC tape, not sure about CDs.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GUEST,Ian M.
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:50 AM

A large number of "Round the Horne" programmes are commercially available on audio cassette over here in Britland published by BBC Publications.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GMT
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:02 AM

The Round the Horne shows and the songs Ramblin Syd Rumpo sang were written by Barry Took and Marty Feldman. The show was rather naughty in places and Mary Whitehouse (a campainer for so called good taste and morals)tried to have it stopped.

A couple of titles I have found are The Bogle-Clencher's Ditty ("tis my delight on a shining night and a foggy night as well"), The Cordwangler's Ditty, and Master Fumblers Traddling Air (sweet lass of hackney wick).
I don't think the Best Of CD is available anymore but there is a BBC tape still available (I think).
http://www.kennethwilliams.org.uk/ (no blue clicky)

here ya go
Cheers
Gary

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Bert
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:07 AM

Brilliant Man.

One of his funniest things was talking gibberish. He'd be talking away and all of a sudden you couldn't understand what he was saying, even though he was still talking. Just disjointed syllables that sounded like words but weren't. Of course he was English, so it was English gibberish. Then he kinda drifted off into French gibberish, then German, then Welsh, then Irish and Scottish and Indian and so on and so on. You knew exactly which language it was supposed to be but he still hadn't said one recognisable word.

He needs a mention on the 'Lost Forever' Thread.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: AndyG
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:23 AM

There's a tape available
Order it here.

A bit of Rambling Sid Rumpo I found on the net:

What shall we do with the drunken nurker,
What shall we do with the drunken nurker,
What shall we do with the drunken nurker,
He's bending his cordwangle.

Hit him in the nadgers with the bosun's plunger,
Slap him on the grummitt with a wrought iron lunger,
Cuff him in the moolies with the Captain's grunger -
Till his bodgers dangle.

& a bit I remember:

There is a tavern in the town
(in the town)
Where you can put you moolies down
(put them down)
And nurd your splods for a very modest fee
And plight your artifacts to me

Fare the well for I must nurdle
Do not let your brassets curdle
For you know that I must wurdle
In the Old Mill Stream

Adieu adieu kind friends
(adieu, adieu, adieu)
I can no longer work it through
(work it through)
I'll nurd my splods for a very modest fee
And plight my artifacts to thee.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: AndyG
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:25 AM

Hoo cant spel "href" ?

There's a tape available
Order it here.

AndyG

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Anglo
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 11:38 AM

"I was walking through the farmyard the other day and a young girl came towards me on a popular sort of fatm vehicle."
"A tractor?"
"Well, I suppose I must have done."

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 12:10 PM

I'm pretty sure that there is a tape of the collected works. Curiously enough some of the terms KW uses in the Rambling syd songs are derived from Romany and some apparently from ancient agricultural catalogues. My favourite aside of his has to be:

So he stood under her bower a-plighting of his troth, and he had to kneel down cos she had a very low bower but she refused him 'cos he only had a very small troth!

I remember listening to Round the Horne on sunday lunchtimes and the arrival of Rambling Syd always signalled much uproar. Laugh? I thought my trousers would never dry.... i guess he was also a precursor of the Kippers!

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GUEST,alanabit
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 02:50 PM

That's all correct about the "Round The Horne Shows". There was a published book of scripts from the shows, which I believe contained some of the lyrics. KW wrote about some of the words which he used (or made up) for the songs. He commented about one word that it didn't mean anything but sounded as if it might. In a way that summed up his style, which was the skillful use of innuendo.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: sophocleese
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 02:53 PM

Please, please, can you keep the funny bits coming. I'm enjoying reading these.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Micca
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 06:02 PM

Rick or Sophocleese, I might be able to get a copy of the apes, PM me if you would like... a copy or details...

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 06:21 PM

Micca, you're a godsend!

Rick

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Melbert
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:09 PM

There is indeed a collection of these songs on cassette.

The album is "....the best of Rambling Syd Rumpo" from EMI Comedy classics on the "Listen for pleasure" label LFPS1552. I bought it about three years ago. Not sure if it's still available.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GUEST,Julie and his friend Sandy
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:12 PM

If you troll over to the BBC World Service and listen for a while, you may enounter Beyond Our Ken, Round the Horne or other shows by the Kenneths Horne and Williams.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:18 PM

Nobody has mentioned Kenneth's involvement with 'Just A Minute' - the radio show where the panel were supposed to talk about a given topic without hesitation, repetition and deviation. I still have some tapes made in 1981 when I was living in Wales: Some of Kenneth's ad-libbing was outrageously hilarious! I can still laugh at it although I almost know the tapes by heart. A lot depended on his peculiar style, however, so it's not much use repeating things here. (You wouldn't find the line 'I came down here all the way from Great Portland Street' particularly funny - but it was when he wailed it!) Glad to find he isn't forgotten yet. - However, I have to agree with Rick - his diaries and letters make sad reading. Susanne

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 07:21 PM

I have an old LP called "The Best of Rambling Syd Rumpo" with 15 tracks (original publication dates 1967-70). To confirm GMT's posting all are credited as "Trad - adapt. Took-Feldman"

The track listing (and what they're based on is

1. Song of the Australian Outlaw Waltzing Matilda
2. Song of the Bogle Clencher Lincolnshire Poacher
3. Sussex Whirdling Song (?)
4. Tinker's Lament Cock of the North/Aunty Mary
5. The Ballad of the Royal Scottish Pretender (Posselwaite Lament) Ye Banks and Braes
6. Pewter Woggler's Bangling Song The Flowing Bowl
7. Runcorn Splod Cobbler's Song (?)
8. The Ballad of the Woggler's Moulie Clementine
9. Sea Shanty Medley Drunken Sailor
10. Clacton Bogle Picker's Lament (?)
11. A Lummockshire Air Foggy Foggy Dew
12. The Terrible Tale of the Somerset Nog Uncle Tom Cobley
13. Soldier, Soldier (?)
14. The Black Grunger of Hounslow Villikins
15. Green Grow My Nadgers Oh! Green Grow the Rushes-o

If I can clear the way to the turntable, I might be able to post these in the coming weeks.

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 08:33 PM

Thread creep but seeing the usage of camp in this thread leads me to ask, am I alone in seeing threads titled "camp songs" and interpreting that as "songs which are camp"?

Jon

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Callie
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 09:14 PM

Next to the picture of my beloved boy on the wall is a newspaper photo of Kenneth Williams, holding a cup of tea and flaring his nostrils. I don't knwo why, but I like it there on my wall. My boy doesn't understand it either.

There's a fair bit about Kenneth W also in the (Joe) Orton Diaries, edited by John Lahr.

Callie

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Sep 00 - 10:49 PM

Ahh, the Joe Orton Diaries! Now that's another can of worms entirely. As I've said, I'm fascinated by diaries. Apparently Ken asked Lahr to excorcise some of Orton's descriptions of him.

The Sid Rumpo stuff looks hilarious. Obviously one (or both) of the writers knew something about traditional song.

Thanks for all the feedback folks.

Rick

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 02:30 AM

And now my dearios, it's time for a rollicking sea-shanty,
So hoist your artifacts, keelhaul your dandoes
And away we go....
(Into the Drunken nurker)
All the best. Seamus

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 02:56 AM

A woman walks into a pub and asks the barman for a double entendre. So he gives her one.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GMT
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 03:41 AM

'Ear, stop it Shambles. lol

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Bagpuss
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:00 AM

I loved Just a Minute. They even made up a new rule for Kenneth Williams. No hesitation, repitition, deviation or eeeeeeelongaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaation.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:15 AM

'Ere, stop messin' about.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:18 AM

Thanks Seamus isn't that the one with the chorus that goes

Fare you well my dearios,br> Fare you well I say
Fare you well my pretty young gel
My Futtocks be bound away

with gradual deterioration of the futtocks in question as the song progressed

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:19 AM

(for none-sea faring folk - the futtocks are the small shrouds used to climb round a joint in the mast. one occassion on which Ken clearly new what he was one about!)

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GMT
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:49 AM

That's the one Shambles.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: GUEST,Upstreeter
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 11:10 AM

Kenneth Williams! As a subject for Mudcat discussion...and why not?

It is said that the character of Rambling Sid was devised in order to lampoon the activities of the BBC's folk song and dialect collecting scheme. This admirable operation (the collecting, that is) was conceived I believe by legendary BBC producer Brian George and people like Seamus Ennis, Peter Kennedy and Bob Copper were recruited, amongst others to become collectors. The scheme was a great success and samples of recently garnered material were played weekly to huge radio audiences. Much of this material went into the permanent archive of the BBC and much was lost or cast aside for the sake of expediency; magnetic tape being at a premium, it was not unknown to overecord songs which were 'duplicates' - what we'd now call variants! Nevertheless, some fine songs and voices were caught before they disappeared forever...just listen to Bob Copper's recording of Ned Adams' 'Bold Princess Royal' the only song he knew incidentally, but it's fairly awash with salt water and atmosphere.

Anyway, like lots of good comedy, feeding off satire and current affairs, Kenneth Williams and his team of writers obviously saw a suitable case for treatment in the collecting scheme. Rambling Sid was born and some alternative country ballads were thus preserved for posterity.

It's food for thought, however that the various shows in which KW performed have endured and recordings can be bought almost anywhere, whilst the fruits of the BBC's historic collecting scheme are extremely difficult to track down.

I guess that's folk music.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 12:17 PM

Great Portland Street was of course the next street along from Broadcasting House, where he was went he made the remark. He was the first in "Just a minute" to go the distance, and I think the subject thrown at him on that occasion was Diogynese. (He was something of a classics scholar, and heavily into Gibbons' Decline & Fall.

Would not have been able to recall those Rambling Syd lyrics, so thanks for the memory. But a line or two from his camp creations Rodney and Charles always stuck in my mind:

"Hello Rodney"
"Hello Charles."
"How's your bottom, Rodney?"
"Shut up!"
"So's mine. Must be the weather..."

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 03:36 PM

Bonar.......

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: The Shambles
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 03:46 PM

An interesting article on Nadgers

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: ac362
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 03:56 PM

Ramblin' Sid was a warning to pretentious singers. He should still be heeded.

His preamble was funnier than the songs.

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 05:02 PM

Shambles, that article is wonderful!! My sister and I used to be in pleats over Rambling Sid, and this thread brings it all back. Must get a recording.

Noreen

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: BanjoRay
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:45 PM

Can anyone remember Ramblin' Sid's version of Widdecombe Fair, called Ganderpoke Bog? I just about remember the first verse:

Reg Pubes, Reg Pubes lend me your great nog
Rollock me pussetts and griddle me noves
I wants for to go to Ganderpoke Bog

---and here he sang a superb version of the Widdecombe Fair list of names (Bill Brewer, Jan Stewer etc) which went vaguely like this:

With Reg Screebly, Foo Too Robinson, Pegleg Loombucket, Scotch Lil, Able Seaman (unknown), and Uncle Ted Willis and all, old uncle Ted Willis and all.

If someone could remember all the exact names and correct order etc, I would be eternally grateful
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Micca
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:48 PM

Noreen, there is a BBC "talking book" recording of Rambling Sid available from shops and Amazon.

Subject: Add: Song of the Australian Outlaw
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:54 PM

Here's the first track from the Rambling Syd Rumpo LP, as promised. Double (or treble) entendre rules, UK.

SONG OF THE AUSTRALIAN OUTLAW
(Words by Barry Took & Marty Feldman)

Well, hello my dearios. Well, tonight I shall have great pleasure ... but first of all I'd like to sing you a few songs. So loosen your grussets, traddle your thrums, let your bossocks down, and away we go.

Now first here's something I picked up down under ... and 'tis an Australian outlaw song, and tells of a squatter in the outback ... camping by a billabong ... and the billabong reports him to the police ... and up come the troopers and they catch him having a jumbuck in his tucker bag.

Well, that's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

So anyway, as they bind up his polyps [pollips?] and carry him off, he sings this haunting lament:

Once long ago in the shade of a goolie bush
Toasting his splod in the faggot's gleam
Rested a ganderman, a knobbling at his woggling iron
And stuffing a sheep in the old mill stream.

Then up come the troopers and hung him by the billabong
They twisted his woggling irons, 1-2-3
Now his ghost sits and moans as it grunges in his gander can
Who'll come a-woggling his jumbuck with me

tune: Waltzing Matilda (2 x verse only - very slowly, minor chords for last two lines)

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Lanfranc
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:58 PM

Shambles, you're a marvel - If we ever meet I owe you a pint or six! That site has been added to my Bookmarks.

Can't add much to the KW thread, but he provided more laughs than many more conventional comedians. He is irreplaceable.

Must replay my Round the Horne tapes in the car tomorrow!

Subject: RE: Kenneth Williams
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 07:35 PM

Round the Horne has been much appreciated, but no-one has mentioned the quirk for which I remember it best: the double-laugh effect. The audience would at first laugh uncertainly and politely, sensing that a punchline had just been delivered. Then, even before that token gesture had fully subsided, there would come the genuine gale-force reaction, telling us that the the multiple entendres had at last sunk in.

If you ever queued to get into these shows, and killed time by surveying the (predominantly octogenerian) company around you, you would marvel that the second reaction ever came at all. O les beaux jours, as Sam Becket used to say.

Thanks for posting the question, Rick. Wonderfully evocative thread. But three times through those diaries must have been a real labour of love.