Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?

Subject: What shound we do with a post that's nasty?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 05:11 PM

I have had mixed luck with with my postings. Sometimes I find just what I'm looking for, get supported in the process, and feel great afterwards.

I have also had the flames that remind one of the Salem Witch burnings.

Are these just to be ducked and sluffed (which leaves me feeling sad and a little wimpy), or are there any tried and true methods for getting to reconcilliation that I'm just not aware of?

There is something violating about the internet flames, and it seems like many of us here just sort of accept'em. Does anybody have any answers to clue me in with?

confused, ttr

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 05:21 PM

Sometimes it's pretty hard to tell if the person is being humorous or really trying to do something hurtful. I try not to overreact too quickly. If in doubt, I usually just get humorous with them. Even if I'm mad, I usually get humorous. That certainly helps me feel better.

Being attacked by perfect (I use that term loosely...) strangers should not be taken seriously, because really how can it be? They don't know you. They are in no position to actually attack you with any authority or impact.

With people you already know well, it's different.

Don't get mad, just get funny. Outwit the rascals.

There is the odd (and I do mean odd) individual who is deeply hostile. Either surprise him by being friendly, or just ignore him and he will probably go away.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Bert
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 05:23 PM

If it's someone who has a name, they are most likely kidding you and you can laugh. If it's an anonymous posting, I guess it really isn't from ANYBODY so you can just ignore it.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Ferrara
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 05:36 PM

Thomas, No reason to feel sad or wimpy if you duck and/or sluff a flamer/flame. In general it takes a lot more strength, character and self control to hold your peace than it does to escalate into full scale war.

Nobody knows why emotions flare so readily on the Net -- or maybe someone does -- but it seems to be part of human nature. The hard part is to keep it from happening to you.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:08 PM

It's not as bad as road rage, anyway.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 06:38 PM

...or mall madness...or football frenzy

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 07:35 PM

It can be annoying, but there's very little you can do in a positive way to combat it. In my first 2 years on Mudcat I was never flamed. A few folks disagreed strongly with positions I took on some issues, but I never felt any deliberate maliciousness. In the last 3 months I've been anonymously flamed dozens of times, and many bogus threads have been started that simply cause strife. One of the inherent results of this (and I know that several others here have had the same experience) is that you get P.M's from super-sleuths telling you precisely who's flaming you (often with pretty conclusive evidence)...but rarely 'why'. Just seems to me that it's the price of doing business on the "net".

Rick

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: kendall
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:11 PM

Old Eastern adage.."Your opinion of me is none of my business."

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 08:38 PM

Words of wisdom as ever Little Hawk. Not bumped into you for a while, but glad you're still around.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:02 PM

I'm with Ferrera on this one. You're a better person for not responding angrily to a comment.

I haven't had to do this on Mudcat, but on another forum I found that when I wasn't clear about someone's tone, a private message saying so usually got a quick apology. (In the cases where it didn't, I just sort of "tuned out" the sender.) I saved the pm's for when I really wanted a resolution, though. Minor stuff I just ignored as being a case of me, or the sender, having a bad day. I never found anything so hideous it deserved airing on the general forum.

The internet is an odd place. You're among strangers, but after a few conversations they begin to feel like friends -- and most of us, with our friends, start leaving our best manners behind in the secure knowledge that we'll be loved anyway. And some few of us have never gotten over the testing phase of our childhood, and will always look for a way to push people past their limit, just to satisfy our curiosity about what the limit may be. We all come as we are.

CD

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Lox
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:02 PM

Words of wisdom from Kendall too methinks.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:09 PM

Grin or ignore it seems to be working well here lately. It is a pleasure to watch a personal attack and usually adolescent attempt at sarcasm wind its weary way to the bottom of the threads into oblivion. Thank you to those who were strong enough to ignore the flames. It is difficult and I respect you for it.
Mary

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:27 PM

I've not noticed the flames lately. Maybe those threads are just the ones I don't look into.

On the other hand, if any of my observations were taken for flames, I'm truly sorry about that. I do know that I probably meant something humorously and, as has happened several times here, the humor was not picked up.

Onward...

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 09:50 PM

With one notable exception, I don't really care one way or the other about the flame problem. We've had a lot more of the stuff in the past 6 months than ever took place before and as Rick pointed out, it seems to be the price of doing business. when I got nailed on the name swap awhile back, humor, as it often does, defused it. Most of the little stuff is easier just to ignore.....unless there's a great line in it as Leej just used on another thread.

THOMAS.....I think the htread that troubles you most is a recent one and as I was reading along with it, I saw what happened and I understand why you are bothered. But the reality was/is that the problem didn't seem so severe to one who was not as actively involved. I had posted and was reading and I watched the situation develop and its unfortunate it went the way it did, because for awhile it was obvious to the outside observer that it was coming, but through no real fault of either of you exactly. A word here on his part, another on yours, and a general misinterpretation on both parts came to grief. Too bad....You are both nice guys basically and I think you spoke at cross purposes to the point of some anger.

The temptation when you see that occurring as it sometimes does, is to jump in and mediate.......Doesn't seem to work though and generally just adds a third party to the problem. Like others have said, try to step back and read the post that bothers you as an "innocent bystander." Think about what you and the other person has said as though you had not been involved. Then try to take the best possible view.

AND ART!!! When anyone has such a lowball sense of humor as we do, its understandable that no one wants to bend down so far as to pick it up!!! But ya' know we seem to be acquiring a few new members and I'm recycling a lot of that lowball stuff. It ain't goin' this time either though............Oh well. But you could start another Condom thread............................or not.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 06 Sep 00 - 10:34 PM

Hey! THANKS, Spaw!


Spaw! Spaw! Spaw!
Billy Maghee Maggaw
And they all clapped their wings and cried;
Billy Maghee Maggaw!

..........Two Crows............

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 10:27 AM

If you want to continue using this forum, what options do you have besides grinning and bearing it? Besides, I find being flamed must less disturbing than having my golden words completely ignored.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Lox
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 10:32 AM

Sorry, can you repeat that please?

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: hesperis
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 10:42 AM

Ferrara - emotions flare more readily on the 'net because you don't have the body language in front of you to add the intended emotional meaning. Words can have several meanings. Then there's sarcasm, muddle-headedness, typos, using the wrong word, or using a word out of context...

It's a wonder people understand each other at all, sometimes.

hesperis

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Lox
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 10:44 AM

What?

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 11:01 AM

Huh Lox?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 11:16 AM

Huh, everybody?

Guest/Russ: Your golden words have been received and recorded...(You may have noticed that most posts are not referred to, individually, but together they do make up the fabric of this tapestry.)

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 11:20 AM

Good words, Spaw!

As I said to someone recently communicating over the internet can lead to some serious misunderstandings. Plus there is the tendency to say things that you wouldn't say if the recipient of those words was standing in front of you with balled fists. It's "safer" than face to face. Unfortunately the old adage "Sticks and stone may break my bones but names can never hurt me." is not necessarily true. Names do hurt. And the electron is so fast that we are now able to say things that would never get said if we took the time to think about them.

It's just the cross we have to bear. Or, as they say in Alaska, it's just the bear we have to cross!

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 01:00 PM

I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: "O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous." And God granted it. -- Voltaire

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: GUEST,Luther
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 01:51 PM

well, that did make me laugh, out loud. Of course Votaire's enemies were prone to have him beaten, imprisoned, or exiled, so one has to wonder how commensurate persecution could be administered through a web forum.

Voltaire also wrote, at the end of Candide:

"Work then without disputing," said Martin; "it is the only way to render life supportable."

The little society, one and all, entered into this laudable design and set themselves to exert their different talents. The little piece of ground yielded them a plentiful crop. Cunegund indeed was very ugly, but she became an excellent hand at pastrywork: Pacquette embroidered; the old woman had the care of the linen. There was none, down to Brother Giroflee, but did some service; he was a very good carpenter, and became an honest man. Pangloss used now and then to say to Candide:
"There is a concatenation of all events in the best of possible worlds; for, in short, had you not been kicked out of a fine castle for the love of Miss Cunegund; had you not been put into the Inquisition; had you not traveled over America on foot; had you not run the Baron through the body; and had you not lost all your sheep, which you brought from the good country of El Dorado, you would not have been here to eat preserved citrons and pistachio nuts."
"Excellently observed," answered Candide; "but let us cultivate our garden."

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 04:49 PM

Luther, you are a card! I just read Candide again (5th time), and you stepped right out of history with it again! The timing was appropriate, and your point is well taken.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 04:54 PM

Voltaire was a moron, and so where his little philosphe buddies. Enlighten THIS!

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: annamill
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:09 PM

Yeah, but he could spell ;-)

L.A.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:13 PM

You mean "were" Mbo. I presume "THIS!" refers to your new harmonica? You are too young for male menopause and too male for PMS, so what's wrong? Or did I miss a thread where Kendall waxes poetic on the merits of Voltaire and this is your obligatory reply?

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Kim C
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:15 PM

In the Bible it says something like being nice to your enemy is like heaping red hot coals on his head; presumably because if someone's being nasty to you, they're trying to get you to be nasty back. But when you're not, it just makes 'em Mad. :)

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:17 PM

O.K.!



Wise up dude, 'cause he is dead.
Get up, aire it, out your head
Fight me, blight me, spoil the thread
Mind your manners, Mbo's outa bread!

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:19 PM

Touche'! (touchy?)

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 05:59 PM

If Mbo wants to flame a bloke who's been dead well over two hundred years I can't see the harm in that. No need to jump to the old reprobate's defence.

There are some pretty nasty people out there in the net, and every now and again they drift in here like poisonous jellyfish. Ignore them and they drift away, flap around and the water gets all messed up and people get hurt.

That's a bit different from aggro between Mudcatters proper - including regular Guests who have some reason for not registering, such as doing it on the firms time (as opposed to the threadworms who burrow around in as unadorned GUESTS). I think we have to recognise that in such a varied community there are lots of different ways of talking, and avoid taking seeming insults or cutting remarks too seriously.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:07 PM

"On est laid a Nanterre,
C'est la faute a Voltaire;
Et bete a Palaiseau,
C'est la faute a Rousseau."

"Men are ugly at Nanterre
'Tis the fault of Voltaire;
And dull at Palaiseau,
'Tis the fault of Rousseau."

--Victor Hugo

BTW I didn't spell anything wrong.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Catrin
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:10 PM

I'm still getting used to the 'softeners' that people use to make it obvious that they are telling a joke e.g *bg* or :-) and others which I originally thought were typos.

I wondered why people needed to reinforce jokes which, to me, were obviously just that - jokes.

Then I realised that without body language, eye contact and with cross atlantic cultural differences etc. what is obviously a joke to me, may not seem like a joke to you, and vice versa.

There have been a couple of times where I've worried that what I have said might have been misinterpreted, but not often, because I don't tend to speak in an outrageous manner.

I think, like any group of people most of us are well meaning .........

and I love my experience of mudcat which I have been wallowing in for oooh at least three months now..........

Catrin *BG*

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:10 PM

Nice one Mbo, Thus it is so!

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:17 PM

Actually only quoted by Victor Hugo...it's really a popular French political folksong from the early 19th century. Ergo: folk-related.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Noreen
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:22 PM

A gremlin slipped the 'h' into 'were' when you weren't looking, Mbo? *:0)

Noreen

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: sophocleese
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:31 PM

Who the hell is Ergo? And how the hell is he/she related to folk?

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Lox
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:32 PM

Rousseau - To do is to be

Sartre - To be is to do

Sinatra - Do be do be doo......

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Mbo
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:35 PM

HA HA HA!

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: SINSULL
Date: 07 Sep 00 - 06:40 PM

Oh good. He's laughing. Thank you Lox.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 03:01 AM

Lox, you read my mind again! This is getting spooky. I almost posted that to the "Words of Wisdom" thread yesterday. That saying used to adorn a wall in my high school (many long years ago). Oh, man.

McGrath of Harlow, I actually like some of our Unadorned Guests. Some of them are quite literate. I imagine them like those shadowy figures who wear black capes and black fedoras, and hold the capes up in front of their faces with their arms, sort of skulking about, and interjecting from time to time with something obscure and pithy. I see them as people when I think of them in that way.

Carol

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 04:00 AM

Obscure and pithy? Whatever do you mean? (-;>

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 04:15 AM

Hi TTR. I adore your poetry! I just like to know who my detractors are so I can speak directly to them. I don't mind hearing criticism so much as not knowing which direction to raise my escutcheon. But I get more upset over misogyny than someone claiming to be me when they aren't or an anonymous critic...you seem like a sensitive soul. I don't hold grudges very long either. I am usually ready to forgive after a few days. But many people around here like to hang on to their detractors so they have scapegoats, I think. Another thing that bothers me is naggers. I hate it when my son does it, too. harp

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Bagpuss
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 06:35 AM

If its me, I'm usually just joking around. I don't tend to flame. If I really disagree with them, then I will usually make serious points about why, and not flame.

So if you think you have been flamed by me ever - it was just my poor attempt at humour.

Bagpuss

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 11:14 AM

To obtain a man's opinion of you, make him mad. -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:03 PM

Strike while the iron is hot, and make the iron hot by striking.

Oliver Cromwell "Ironsides"

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:17 PM

People who flame others, whether anonymously or using an alias, set themselves up for being a scapegoat.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:35 PM

I disagree. It's an excuse for alot of folks around here to dump very destructive anger and to justify it with self-righteousness!

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:47 PM

I'll agree with that, harpgirl, although I'd say "some" intead of "a lot of."

Some people also seem to need enemies, and will create them if no one volunteers. They don't have to be sure that someone meant to insult them; a hint is enough of a reason for them to be positive their (probably unsuspecting) opponent is the physical manifestation of all that is evil in the universe. In their mind, this justifies the self-righteous anger.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 12:53 PM

...righto, jeri...some...a few...or maybe most of us a few times?

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM

Or self-aimed anger.

The conviction that one is not worthy of love leads some of us to seek proof of it again and again.

Not the greatest sentence, but I work with kids -- some of whom come from really screwed up families and don't know how to accept kindness at all. Anger they know how to deal with.

Most the flamers I've seen on the net make me think of them.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:14 PM

I think all of us have had the temptation to do the "demonization" thing. The number of people who've been involved in arguments and not done it is probably miniscule, and I'm certainly not in there.

Make the person evil enough to be worthy of being treated like a thing, and we can say whatever we want and not feel guilty. See the person as a person, and we've got a problem. It comes down to what we as individuals are willing to allow ourselves to become, and no amount of "but they MADE me say that" is going to get us out of being responsible.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 01:21 PM

Most (annonymous) flamers I've seen remind me of the anemic little weaklings back in high school who didn't say a thing when some jock knocked their lunch tray out of their hands, and then went home and wrote obscenities on the jock's yearbook picture. These people won't say it to your face because they're cowards. Just exchange "Tank will kick my ass!" with "No one will like me or respond to my posts!" and you've got what we're talking about on this thread.

Thankfully, with no balls,these people can't reproduce, eh?

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 02:13 PM

LR...I'm just not willing to embrace the argument that anonymous equals coward equals non reproductive and irrelevant to the survival of the human race. People are far more complex than that. As I've been implying all day, many characteristics have survived in the human race besides brute strength. The little, sneaky, fast guys and gals reproduce successfully as well, LR...

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 02:23 PM

God send me a friend that may tell me my faults, if not an enemy, and he surely will. -- ??

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 04:14 PM

Well Lepus Rex if I was an aneamic weakling who had my lunch tray deliberately knocked out of my hands by somebody who was much bigger than me I probably wouldn't say much at that moment either. The jock is a bully using his physical size and strength to intimidate smaller people. Why would I want to get hurt by opening my mouth when I can get my revenge with the pen a little later? Its a similar reasoning to what the jock uses when he atttacks people smaller than himself.

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 04:46 PM

What kind of revenge is it, though? Sitting alone in a room, safely scribbling/typing away? To be that impotent would seriously depress me. It's only GOOD revenge if they know it's you.

And if you just sit there and take it when you get bullied, you're basically asking for more. Sure, you might get beat up, or people might not like you anymore, but at least you stood up for yourself. I say things to people, here and in real life, using MY name and MY face. If people don't like it, they know who to dislike. Me. Not some annonymous wanker who deleted his cookie. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Thread Thrashing...Grin and bear it?
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:22 PM

How about sitting alone in a room scribbling, practicing, researching, practiting some more, crossing out some of your scribbles that seem too inflamatory, practicing and singing some more, reworking the meter, and finally, playing the result alone in your room for another three hours. How about performing that song later?

How about having the satisfaction of coming to terms with your own shortcommings on your own time?

Flamers are blamers, small greedy and weak,
Like the voyers and gamers, they just need a peek.
From the guilt and subconscious, a neglected small child,
Comes society's anger, self-loathing and wild.