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Help: Trouble w chords in RISE UP SINGING??

DigiTrad:
NOT IN THE BOOK


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WyoWoman 08 Sep 00 - 07:30 PM
catspaw49 08 Sep 00 - 07:34 PM
Midchuck 08 Sep 00 - 07:35 PM
GUEST,Barry Finn 08 Sep 00 - 07:39 PM
GUEST,Barry Finn 08 Sep 00 - 07:40 PM
catspaw49 08 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM
WyoWoman 08 Sep 00 - 07:59 PM
dwditty 08 Sep 00 - 08:49 PM
Marion 08 Sep 00 - 09:30 PM
Naemanson 08 Sep 00 - 09:41 PM
GUEST,Barry Finn 08 Sep 00 - 09:43 PM
Joe Offer 08 Sep 00 - 09:49 PM
rabbitrunning 09 Sep 00 - 01:24 AM
Sandy Paton 09 Sep 00 - 04:31 AM
Big Mick 09 Sep 00 - 09:23 AM
catspaw49 09 Sep 00 - 10:46 AM
canoer 09 Sep 00 - 12:15 PM
Catrin 09 Sep 00 - 12:24 PM
Roger in Baltimore 09 Sep 00 - 12:35 PM
catspaw49 09 Sep 00 - 01:04 PM
Joe Offer 09 Sep 00 - 02:06 PM
Sandy Paton 09 Sep 00 - 03:44 PM
Mooh 09 Sep 00 - 04:30 PM
WyoWoman 09 Sep 00 - 04:34 PM
WyoWoman 09 Sep 00 - 04:37 PM
campfire 09 Sep 00 - 04:51 PM
WyoWoman 09 Sep 00 - 05:00 PM
WyoWoman 09 Sep 00 - 05:24 PM
campfire 09 Sep 00 - 06:39 PM
Naemanson 09 Sep 00 - 07:28 PM
WyoWoman 09 Sep 00 - 07:40 PM
WyoWoman 09 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM
Mbo 09 Sep 00 - 08:00 PM
Giac 09 Sep 00 - 08:01 PM
catspaw49 09 Sep 00 - 09:17 PM
rabbitrunning 09 Sep 00 - 10:23 PM
Bill D 09 Sep 00 - 11:10 PM
GUEST,Barry Finn 09 Sep 00 - 11:37 PM
IvanB 09 Sep 00 - 11:38 PM
WyoWoman 10 Sep 00 - 01:08 AM
Sandy Paton 10 Sep 00 - 01:09 AM
WyoWoman 10 Sep 00 - 01:12 AM
WyoWoman 10 Sep 00 - 01:13 AM
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Subject: Trouble w chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:30 PM

I find the 'Rise Up Singing' 'hymnal' to be useful for finding words to a bazillion songs (although I agree with someone who called it 'Rise Up Squinting', which might be more of a commentary on me than it), but for the life of me, I can't figure out what the chord notations mean. I either am missing something entirely (a grave possibility, given my level of expertise), or the notations are often just not quite right.

Anyone else have any thoughts about this?

Thenkyew,

ww


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:34 PM

A lot of them are flat out screwed. Wrong chords, wrong time, or not enough.........I know Joebro, they do a helluva' job and its only a small op, etc, etc, etc.........Work the chords out for yourself Pansy or just ask.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:35 PM

I vote for the chords being not quite right. It's great as a lyric source, but I'd like a good supply of whatever the guy was on who put in the chord sequences. It would keep me from getting cabin fever in the Vermont winter, that's for sure.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:39 PM

I got a pet peeve with the hymnal or the Bible as some call it, for all it's worth it best use is as kindling on a cold winter's night even a hot summer's night for that matter. OK let 'em loose Barry who'sreadyfortheflyingfuries


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:40 PM

Wow, that's fast


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM

Yeah Barry, I'm with ya' and I love your song about it, but some folks like it and I've given up....as long as its a "suggestion" and not a bible it Ok except for the PC lyrics and bad chords.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 07:59 PM

It's a handy reference for remembering the words to lots of songs that I probably wouldn't be carrying the lyrics for, and I appreciate the work that went into it. I have been at song circles in which no one ever took their noses out of the Book, and that's a drag (except when *I* need to use it as a cheat sheet). But the chords can be really frustrating ...

At least it's nice to know that, even though my playing still sucks, it doesn't suck as bad as i imagined ...

Well ... maybe ...

ww


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: dwditty
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 08:49 PM

WW,
A couple of years ago I started a thread about RUS which got Barry going pretty good and may even have been the inspiration for his song (unless he had it tucked away just waiting for the "perfect time" to use it).*G* I have come to use it pretty much as a reference to find words (as you say) or to learn the basic chords (although in many cases they are not even close). In that thread, Art Thieme suggested the Folksinger's Wordbook. He is absolutely right. Better songs, no attempts to change the words to make them fit the particular "whatever" of the author, and chords that not only actually work, but also sit over the words (which are in normal type). Compiled and edited Fred & Irwin Silber. ISBN 0-8256-0140-1. Probably available at Amazon, B&N, or wherever. Be sure to access their sight from Mudcat.

dw


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Marion
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:30 PM

I find the RUS chords to be offbase sometimes, but sometimes they're fine, and when they're offbase at least they're a starting point for me - I find it difficult to ear out chords for a song from scratch.

And I also really like having the chords written separately from the lyrics, and the system they use. Once you figure out how long each chord written alone is supposed to last for the particular song, then you just have to follow the pattern of playing the chords in units or double units or half units (units meaning strum-down-strum-up or a measure or two measures or whatever for that particular song). I use the RUS system in my own notes about other songs.

When the chords are written above the lyrics, that makes the first verse easier but all the other verses much more difficult to follow (unless it's written out again for every verse). If you're not very familiar with a song, trying to anticipate whether the word "said" or "look" in the second verse corresponds to the same beat as the word "wrapped" in the first verse is a real pain. Also, sometimes the chord changes happen in a pause between lines, or in the middle of a drawn out syllable, or a beat before a word, which is harder to clarify with the "write above the words" system. Much easier to say for each verse: G Bm C G....

Marion


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Naemanson
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:41 PM

But have you played the RUS game?

At a party or gathering choose up teams with multiple people on each team. The first team picks a page and challenges the other team to sing something from that page. The teams take turns.

Scoring is optional (The idea is to get people singing, of course.)
Able to sing just the chorus: 1 Point
Able to sing the whole song: 2 Points
Add one point for each team member who sings along
Add ten points if you can get the other team to sing too.
First team to get to a bazillion points wins.
Have fun and sing.


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:43 PM

Hi dw, I had written that song awhile before after attending a few different singing sessions where that's all that was sung & it was all sung that way to the letter & told that that's not the way it's written in RUS so it's not way it should be done. I'd had also heard from an old friend that what was once was a great singing session in San Francisco degenerated into a RUS session. I don't really sing the sung much it gets some people using me as cannon fodder & I do realize that I have a devilish & odd sense of humor at times. Barry whostillfeelsthesameaboutRiseUpScreaming


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Sep 00 - 09:49 PM

Wyo, there are instructions for the book's system of chord notation in the front pages of Rise Up Singing. Yes, I will admit the chords are off on many songs, but at least they're an attempt. I would also like to add that in the newer editions, most of the "politically correct" alterations of lyrics have been removed. The older, wirebound editions have some pretty awful changes made to some songs.
Yes, I prefer Folksinger's Word Book. It costs $34.95, rarely discounted. Our Song Circle buys Rise Up Singing by the case from Sing Out! and we're able to resell them for under $15 and make a profit.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 01:24 AM

My edition is 1988. It's wirebound, so I guess it's time to go looking for a newer copy, huh?

I like it, to tell the truth, even tho I didn't recognize all the lyrics in there. Which ones were PC'd, and do we know by who?

I keep finding lyrics I don't recognize here, too. I guess I don't mind because I expect anything which qualifies as "folklore" to have lots of variants. The fascinating bit to me is trying to track the change over time and places. That's why I love it when people cite their sources!


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 04:31 AM

Aside from the "screwed up" chords, the texts of the traditional songs the book offers are rarely the ones I would have selected from the many versions available in various published sources. Maybe the better texts just weren't available, but to have this mess become a song circle's Bible is a major tragedy. For Heaven's sake, Joe, don't push it just because it's cheap and you can make money selling it! It is NOT a very good source for song texts, and yet the versions it contains, because of the thousands of copies now in the hands of the innocents, are getting to be looked upon as the definitive ones.

While I'm at it, I noticed some errors in the headnotes to the songs, as well, before I put the book aside as more of an irritant than an aid. Beware of the misinformation it contains.

Sandy (a tired and grouchy old curmudgeon)


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Big Mick
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 09:23 AM

I am absolutely with the grouchy old curmudgeon and Bro Barry. There are songs that I have learned from the singing of cronies of my Grandparents that bear no resemblance to the RUS version. As a publication I put in the class of a source if nothing else works. And the "PC" versions are not even that good. I much prefer "The Folksingers Wordbook" as a starting point to tracking down a version of a song.

The issue of the RUS "style police" is a separate issue entirely. If you are going to have a text that all songs sung must follow, at least use one that is credible. But I will not participate in a circle that insists that I sing and listen to only approved versions of anything. One of the major reasons I go to a session/circle is to hear and learn other folks versions of tunes/songs.

Big Mick


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 10:46 AM

Well Joe..............

Da' Phoak Phogey has spoken!!! Well done there Oh Great Phoak Phogey!!!

Seriously Joe......I think that the 4th or 5th post I ever made here was about this and everytime RUS comes up the best that can be said is that "it gets people singing" in the hope that they go on and actually do other songs and learn more about the ones they do from RUS. But if you read the forum and the stories here, that is rarely the case as it ends up as a Folk Bible which it most assuredly is not. And Sandy, curmudgeon or not, finally has hit the nail on the head. We're simply passing along misinformation in a true distortion of the folk process.

There are other fine resources as we all know, including the DT. They all may not be as easily obtainable, but we're not doing anyone any service by pushing RUS. I suggested a long time ago that we should publish (somehow) a songbook that was laid out in that fashion, but more true to the process and more accurate in its information. I know that RUS operates on a "shoestring" with minimal help as I said above and as you have often pointed out......But it is still not a reason to promote a sanitized and inaccurate piece of work. They could do better.

Still love ya' Joe........but let's face it, RUS bites.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: canoer
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:15 PM

This is an interesting question. IF my goal is primarily to create a "community" atmosphere by means of folk singing, and IF the most easily used resource (RUS) for accomplishing this happens to have some poor choices of lyrics, some mistaken chords, and some things which are less than respectful of the actual tradition --- then, should I toss this resource and struggle with better, but much less "group-friendly," alternatives?

Please 'scuse the horrid sentence. -- Larry C.


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Catrin
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:24 PM

Has anybody thought of publishing a Mudcat Songbook - not to compete with Aine's of course, but one in the style of RUS - only better?


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:35 PM

For those of you who think the chords are wrong, rejoice! It means you can "hear" the music and your instrument being "out of tune." With a little experimenting with other chords, you may find one on your own that is "in better tune." You are growing on your instrument. It means you probably could pick out a song on your instrument.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 01:04 PM

Catrin...My post just above yours made that suggestion and we have had several discussions on this before.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 02:06 PM

Well, while you guys were off ranting and raving about RUS, I was off singing from it with a group of 25 people, outside on a beautiful Sacramento autumn evening. And every time they did a song by James Taylor or the Beatles, the singing collapsed. "The Rose" was awful, and they decided to quit singing when I arrived in the middle of "Imagine." That's the thing I dislike most about Rise Up Singing - the James Taylor songs. I like the Beatles and I suppose "The Rose" ain't a bad song, but they sure don't work for community singing.
And James Taylor? No comment. I know a lot of people who would not be pleased by my opinion of James Taylor. They might do something horrible to me.
And yes, Sandy, I think the versions they choose of traditional songs are the recorded versions. If James Taylor sang it, that's the one they chose. And yes, it grates me that some of my favorite songs are way off from the way I know 'em and it's hard to drag the group into singing the song my way. I've led campfire singing since I was in grammar school, And I never used a book or a song sheet until I joined the song circle in Sacramento about 8 years ago.
Still, the book makes songs accessible to nonsingers. It's a struggle for the musicians in our group to force people not to be tied to the book, but we do a pretty good job of it. I have to admit that the two songs I chose last night were straight from the book but they were ones the group had never sung before - "Buffalo Boy" and "Turn Your Radio On."
I'll agree that there are all sorts of things about Rise Up Singing that really bug me. The only thing is, it's the only thing I know of that works as well as it does for group singing for nonsingers. If you can give me a practical, affordable alternative, I'd love to have it.
Of the 25 people who were at our song circle last night, maybe five would be comfortable at the biweekly circle I sing with in nearby Davis. The Davis sing is wonderful, but it's a stretch for me to fit into it since I don't play a guitar and have mostly camp songs and church songs memorized. They tolerate my cheat sheets, and they seem to have grown fond of me, so I'm glad I can enjoy the challenge of singing with them. It is a real treat to be there singing with the likes of Dick and Carol Holdstock.
But what about all our Sacramento people who just wouldn't fit into the more sophisticated circle? What should we do with them?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 03:44 PM

Download a good text from Digitrad, or, if you don't particularly like the Digitrad vesion, photocopy one from any of the fine songbooks you have been acquiring of late, Joe, then run off a couple dozen copies on the copy machine. I think you can find better versions among the books in your growing library. Let your song circle learn them! You'll be doing the tradition a favor.

I may have told this story before, but some years ago, Caroline and I were on the staff at Augusta, assigned to encourage group singing among the confidence-impaired. We were leading a song-swap session in the Chapel when one of the participants asked for "Careless Love." Okay, I've been singing "Careless Love" for fifty years, so I said, "Sure," and launched into it. Zingo! Out came half a dozen RUSes, noses were immediately buried in the pages, and when my text deviated from the printed version, I heard someone cry, "Hold on! You've got it wrong!" I tried to explain that folksongs are always in a state of flux (quoting Bruno Nettl), vary from one source to another, and pointed out that I liked to sing it the way I had learned it many years before RUS was born. But then I asked one of the RUSsers to lead the song in the way they chose to do it, giving her a chance to prove to herself that she could do it, which was good, and allowing me to avoid making a somewhat rude suggestion concerning a possibly appropriate use of the paper to which they were so obviously dedicated. Had I been a presidential candidate, I would have been glad that my mental microphones were turned off. Even Caroline might have concurred: "Right! Big time!" (and she's a very kind and gentle person, far from curmudgeonish).

Sandy


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Mooh
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 04:30 PM

Like others out there(here?), I had RUS before I had the internet, and I live a long way from anything that resembles a selection of folksong books. In that light RUS is/was a Godsend, but I never accepted it as THE LAST WORD in folk music. That kind of RUS fundamentalism is deviant. (Imagine if it had actual printed music in it, the RUS fundamentalists would be impossible!) It nonetheless makes for an okay "idea" book, for me anyway, but it stands on the shelf with dozens of other songbooks none of which I accept as a bible.

I see the willingness of folkies to use it bible-like as pretty strange, since I also see folkies as by-and-large not so fundamentalist.

Anyway, its cost per song is pretty low, even if the chord choices are weird (even if you can accept the key).

There's a group of books, I think the Soodlum ones, which also have some odd chords given, missing verses which are well known in the tradition (and not given as alternatives), and includes the notes which seem to me to be somewhat generic interpretations. Oh well, maybe we can't muster the jam to look beyond RUS...

Not to argue, but I like the idea of a Mudcat book, though I certainly couldn't underwrite the project.

In the meantime, I go to several sources (including RUS) but especially here, for songs. I'm glad our audiences don't mind our warped readings of folk songs, but maybe they haven't heard of RUS.

My $0.02, Cdn funds. Mooh.


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 04:34 PM

I shall order the Folksinger's Wordbook anon. Joe, maybe you could get the publshers of THAT to cut you a deal???

ww


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 04:37 PM

Oh, and RiB, I actually have gotten ok at figuring out songs that stick to the I, IV, V chords, even though I'm pretty much staying in the key of A. This is why God gave us capos, right? I actually can do all the keys that don't have B chords in them, although F is still a challenge.

I'm going this afternoon to see if I can find silk-wound strings, or something like that. A friend recommended those to make me stop whining about how my fingers hurt and how I keep damping the strings ... We shall see ...

ww


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: campfire
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 04:51 PM

I sure must not be going to the right places, cuz I've never met anyone who uses the RUS in the "Bible" method that keeps getting described here. I know several people who have copies, and like my copy, the margins are filled with extra verses, alternate versions, and so on.

The RUS book is a heck of a lot more portable than the DT. We don't have electricity around the campfire, much less a phone line. And its not the only book I - or any of the people I refer to above - use AS A GUIDE. Usually, when we're actually singing, we only use it to suggest a song, in case nobody comes up with a suggestion when the last song ends. Then we do it, our way (whoever is leading).

But then again, one of the people I'm talking about is my DAD; the guy who, after I showed him my first copy of RUS, found a bunch of songs "they got it wrong, in here". But we sat up until 4 am singing together, anyhow, and I wouldn't give that back for anything. (Then he went and bought his own copy, and the tapes, because there were some songs in there he hadn't heard and wanted to learn.)

And yes, for some of the songs, the chords don't work out right. But I've found that in lots of other printed sources, too, including music books that "match" an album and cost a whole lot more.

campfire


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 05:00 PM

Campfire, I've seen both. Some singarounds, you just see the book come out so someone can check words s/he doesn't know, or to find a song s/he remembers part of. But at some song circles, it absolutely IS the Bible, and there's a slavish devotion to the Book and Nothing But the Book. (Which, regardless of what book it is, would be odious.)

But good on you and your father for getting into the music that seriously. Using it as one of several resources is terrific. I'm not dissin' the book completely -- just acknowledging that it has its downside. And trying to figure out how much of what I perceive as a downside is due to it and how much is due to me...

WW


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 05:24 PM

I just bought the Folksinger's Word Book through Amazon.com, through the jumping catfish, of course, and it's now $27. Still more expensive thatn RUS, but ... the blurb says it has over 1,000 folk songs. THAT should keep me busy...

WW


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: campfire
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 06:39 PM

Does anyone really think its the fault of the BOOK the way people use it? Or do you think if those SAME PEOPLE had little laptops with the DT at their disposal, (for the same length of time they've had their RUS'es) they wouldn't be just as rigid with THOSE versions being "set in stone"? Is it just a case of the book being too popular for its own good? Combined with the anal-retentive attitude of a great deal of the general public?

I think it also points to a lack these days of the whole oral tradition of learning songs (or whatever); everything "we" learn these days comes out of a book. Half the women I work with can't cook ANYTHING without a recipe. Everyone remembers Grandma's Apple Pie, but nobody can make it now that she's passed on.

Another problem is that people just don't sing enough anymore. In our church a few years ago, a great number of the congregation asked if we could stop doing the "harder" hymns during the services, because most of the congregation had trouble with them. They wanted hymns on the musical level of "Jesus Loves Me".

Enough ranting - apologies to all who listened.

campfire


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 07:28 PM

I'm with Joe on this one. RUS isn't a bible and was never intended to be a bible but it gets people singing.

I understand those of you who say the versions of songs in RUS are not accurate. But how does that make you different from those who treat RUS as a bible? Aren't you holding up something else and giving it that same status?

Sandy, you have been singing some of these songs since they were collected and must be singing them correctly. How many of them have you heard in a different form on someone else's recording. Have you tried to take the artist to task for changing the song? If not, why not? That recording is now doing the same thing that you have accused RUS of. It is passing an incorrect version of the song to along to generations who will think that it is correct.


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 07:40 PM

All we are saaaay-eeeng
Is give peace a chance ....


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM

Woops. Did I turn EVERYBODY pinko?

sorry.


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Mbo
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 08:00 PM

Help! I'm seeing pink and I don't even drink!


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Giac
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 08:01 PM

Aha! I thought my computer had freaked out. Thanks for pointing it out, WW. Wheeeeew!

RUS: Rodents of Unusual Size (The Princess Bride)


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 09:17 PM

Gawddammitt PANSY!!!! Put the friggin' web design stuff away!!!! .......geeziz...............A little knowledge is a dangerous thing and you got yersef a .44 magnum there girl!!!

Spaw (let's have a Wesson party)


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 10:23 PM

If y'all are having trouble with people using the RUS book as a bible, you might have them take a gander at the introduction. The edition I have gives them permission to change the words.

;D


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 11:10 PM

Sandy hit it on the nose...RUS has made 'wrong' the standard in too many places and groups....so, it makes songs 'accessable'...what if they had done a cookbook..("add one pint of salt to the soup")...or (shudder)..medical texts? "de headbone connected to de hip bone"..*grin*....

bad metaphor?..ok, but you get the point. If too many people get locked into this 'single-source' songbook, we can have generations of problems!...ah, well, all you can do is make the point, you can't make 'em listen.


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Subject: Lyr Add: RISE UP SCREAMING
From: GUEST,Barry Finn
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 11:37 PM

Aw what the hell I can always take another beating for singing this:

Rise Up Screaming by Barry Finn
Tune: Jack In The Green by Martin Graebe

A pub session or a party is a very strange thing
They're all out of fashion no more do they sing
For they read from a book or copy a tape
They imitate sounds no mortal should make

There's no sound in the kitchen, no sound in the hall
There's a murderous screech that plays off the walls
Where is the music, where are the songs
In the mouths of monsters where no sound belongs

Dead pan they look as they sing in your face
They'll spit out the words and the tunes they'll disgrace
A song will be beat o'r and over to death
And in a round robin they'll resurrect it again

No more will be heard a version that's lost
Or a variant that's rare or two songs that were crossed
The borrowing or sharing of a tune or a song
Will be according to the Bible all else will be wrong

And now for the future, it's bleak for the song
No young mortal will dare to carry it on
They'll be none around who without books can sing
Or swap without tapes or rise up singing

Copyright Barry Finn 1996


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w/ chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: IvanB
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 11:38 PM

For many of the songs with which I'm familiar my original source was my grandmother. To my knowledge, she never owned a song book, so the lyrics just came out of her head. They were probably just as incorrect as those we're complaining about in RUS, and, especially in my younger years I'm sure she cleaned up some of the songs for us of impressionable ages. The reality of the 'folk process' is that lyrics and tunes are bastardized every day.

We keep debating RUS over and over and probably none of us are going to be moved. But I'm of the school that says we should use whatever tools we have, and if RUS gets people singing who never had before, that's good. If some then treat it as a 'bible,' shame on them. But there are fundamentalists of every ilk and God save us from them all!


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 01:08 AM

Well, I don't have a "Wesson" color on my chart, but I think I'm making progress here ...

A little knowledge is such a dangerous thing.

ww


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 01:09 AM

You misunderstand me, Naemanson. I don't believe I said the songs in RUS are "inaccurate." What I meant to say that of the ten or fifty or a hundred versions of a song available from a variety of sources, I was sorry they hadn't selected "better" versions -- more poetic, more complete, etc. I'm talking about traditional songs here, you realize. Of the recently written songs with known composers I assume they have gathered "accurate" texts from the original sources. I may have been singing a particular version of a traditional song for many years, but I'm well aware that other versions are equally "authentic" and may appeal to someone more than the one I have chosen to learn. I really enjoy hearing and comparing different versions of a song.

There's a thread running right now about "The Foggy Dew." I sing three very different versions of that song myself, and love each of them for one reason or another. I know another version (the one I first learned some fifty years ago) that I really DON'T like and never sing anymore, and I've meant to learn a fifth version for a number of years (good intention, yet to be realized) that I think I may like even more than all the others. None of these is more "accurate" than the rest.

Ian Robb once made the point (in his SING OUT! column) that if you like a song well enough to sing it, you ought to like it well enough to LEARN it, and then you could leave the book at home. Makes sense to me.

The old folk fogey, ranting on.


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 01:12 AM

OK. This time I really think I've got it. If I screw it up with this attempt, I'm going to turn off my computer, call it a night and hope Joe and Max won't crumble my cookie for this ...

sorry guys ... xo/Pansy Rue WW Twidgett, III


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Subject: RE: Help: Trouble w chords in RISE UP SINGING??
From: WyoWoman
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 01:13 AM

shee-yut


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