BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina

Subject: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Escamillo
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 05:11 AM

This fragment is extracted from the Cambridge University

"The first global agreement to restrict CFCs came with the signing of the Montreal Protocol in 1987 ultimately aiming to reduce them by half by the year 2000. Two revisions of this agreement have been made in the light of advances in scientific understanding, the latest being in 1992. Agreement has been reached on the control of industrial production of many halocarbons until the year 2030. The main CFCs will not be produced by any of the signatories after the end of 1995, except for a limited amount for essential uses, such as for medical sprays."

Those would be good news, but the bad news is that today newspapers are announcing in front pages that the Ozone Depletion is covering the whole territory of Antarctica and is expected to reach ARGENTINA TERRITORY (specifically Patagonia) within two MONTHS. Not thousands of years, not centuries. Two months.

UV rays will have a strong influence over huge parts of our territory that are well populated and where there is one of the most beautiful forests on Earth, not only over bald polar lands. What happened ? And what will we do ?

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Metchosin
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 05:49 AM

Don't know Andres, it's certainly is worrisome. I guess we could shrug it off as a natural stage of evolution for the planet due to the activities of the predominant species, if it wasn't so darned scary.

To add fuel, a couple of days ago I watched a programme on a study of polar bears on an island off the coast of Norway where all the female bears are developing penises. (Could be funny Spaw but it ain't) The researchers there believe its caused the the high levels of PCBs and other pollutants that are precipitating out from Russia, Europe and North America and affecting the hormonal balance in the embrionic stage of the animals. The bears live on seal fat and these chemicals are highly concentrated there.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: The Shambles
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 06:28 AM

NASA Science News for September 08, 2000

Antarctica's ozone hole now covers an area three times larger than the entire land mass of the United States - the largest such ozone-depleted region ever observed.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: GUEST,Luther
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 11:55 AM

what happened? Here's what happened:

article at www.rachel.org

If the link works, you'll end up at an article written in October '89, if it doesn't just copy and paste www.rachel.org into your browser and have a look around.

What will we do? I remember an incredibly funny bit I saw on "Nightline" (this is a popular "news" program in the US) sometime in the mid- to late- eighties. The topic was ozone depletion and global warming. At that time, the corporate stranglehold on American media was not quite as firm as it is now, and occasionally a bit of truth would tumble out of the TV.

The guests were a Reagan administration official, and an atmospheric scientist. After the news report on ozone depletion, the guests "debated" its meaning.

Of course, the government official scoffed at the report, but suggested that, even if there were some danger, it was easily remedied: People should just wear hats and sunglasses when they go outside.

To which the scientist replied: "So, how about cows? Should cows wear hats and sunglasses when they go outside?"

I don't know what the government turd's reply was, I was laughing my ass off and missed it. Since that time, of course, the situation has only worsened, and the US response has largely been a massive disinformation campaign, distributed to the hard-right demographic through vehicles like Rush Limbaugh, and to the centrist demographic through mainstream media shits like Greg Easterbrook. Astonishingly to anyone who judges him by his record, rather than his PR, candidate Al Gore is seen in the US as an "environmentalist".

What are we going to do: I don't know. As individuals we can't do much at all, other than do our best to tread lightly upon the earth. The Green movement is probably too little, too late, although the gesture has to be made. I suspect, though, that the game is already over.

so, stock up on hats and sunglasses!

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:21 PM

I am afraid to say that I am another pessimist and suspect that it is more a question of "How long has this planet got left?" than "What can we do about it?"

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Alice
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:31 PM

Tee shirt dyed with natural clay, design by Alice Flynn.Tread Lightly Be informed, stand up, speak up, vote.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:45 PM

Evolution will take over. We will adjust or join the dinosaurs. A new species will evolve and thrive or cockroaches will rule the world (if they don't already). The wheel keeps turning. Why is anyone surprised?

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Sorcha
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 12:57 PM

OK, I'm a little ignorant here. What exactly is this going to do, other than raise the planet temp (and thereby the sea levels) and cause the incidence of skin cancers to rise? As if those weren't bad enough........does it deplete the oxgyen in the air? etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: momnopp
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 02:41 PM

Here's the link to the article Shambles refers to above; contains links for further info, but doesn't look like there's a lot of information about what can be done. . .

BLICKIE

Fascinating. . .

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 04:56 PM

Alice, I love that design. I couldn't see any links or info on where to get one. ???

Well, Sorcha, disruptions in the climate are predicted, the rising of the oceans -- changes of even a degree or two in our planet's temperature can cause big problems. Droughts where there's been a good climate for growing food, floods in other places.

But as far as I'm concerned, it's only one element in a terrible problem globally, which includes but is not limited to the dumping of huge quantities of toxic waste in the world's oceans, and the over-use of nitrogen-based fertilizers which also go into the planet's water and really foul things up. When the planet's population was fairly low, we could maybe afford to be unconscious about our wastes. But now, with the population straining the earth's resources, we simply cannot use the oceans as a repository for crap we don't want to deal with. BUT ... nothing will change until the corporations and countries see some advantage for themselves in changing. I simply cannot imagine how they can be unaware, or uncaring about the effects of what they do. We ALL live here.

And why should we care if it's just a matter of time before we all go the way of the dinosaurs? In the scheme of things, we are just an organism that got too smart for itself in some ways and far too dumb about itself in others and overpowered our ecosystem and turned the lights out on ourselves. However, I have children, I am a part of this beautiful little planet and I have a stake in its future, and in the future of the human species, which in spite of its many and varied flaws, is one of my favorites. Many of my best friends are humans and I so hope we can live long and prosper.

It will take a revolution, of course. Global and all that. Problem is, most of us are rebels without a cause. We simply don't know where to take our stand. Recycling and using earth friendly products just doesn't seem to be cutting it, does it? I would like to see a guidebook of some sort that lays out the steps we can take to "tread lightly." What does that mean, exactly, and how do I start on Day One? And then, after that, what do I do? And while I'm doing that, what letters do I write and what do I do to affect the political process, and how do I NOT become shrill and thereby undermine my own effectiveness, but remain steadfast and angry enough to keep taking the Next Step?

That's what I'D like to know? And can we use music to change consciousness again like we did Back Then, or is that just a quaint, nostalgic notion?

Wondering Wyo-Wyo

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Alice
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 06:11 PM

Hi, W.W., my designs on shirts that are naturally clay dyed were custom licensed to Earth Creations, www.earthcreations.net The Tread Lightly shirt is under outdoors and nature market, along with a fern leaf and aspen leaves and Give Peas A Chance. The alligators and southern states that I did are under Southern Designs, and I did a coffee design for the coffee dyed shirt, but they haven't updated their website for 2 years! There are more designs in their catalog that you can get from [e-mail]. The catalog has the Turtle Earth design.

They have designs by other artists, too. They use all natural dyes and try to sell art that is related to nature, native American designs, and so forth. It's a tough market. Most garments sell with graphics that are not so altruistic.

I agree with your desire to have straightfoward and factual information about the ozone depletion and its effects as well as our most appropriate response to the problem. I think this is an area in which too little too late has been invested for research, and that is also frustrating to the scientists who are looking for the answers.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 06:43 PM

Here is what makes environmental progress difficult: Huge corporations do not wish to destroy the Earth.They live here too.However,perception IS reality.For every study showing the Earth is manifesting the Greenhouse Effect,there is another study showing that global warming is a natural cyclic phenomenon.At this point it becomes a matter of which explanation you choose to believe.You and I may think it's obvious that immediate measures need to be taken.Any guess which report Exxon,DuPont,Mitsubishi and Siemens will choose to believe? Sure it's self-serving...but what do you think business is all about?There is one thing that will change their philosophies...consumer pressure.How can the average citizen be convinced that catastrophe is imminent?That is the challenge.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 07:25 PM

Well, and as one who is devoted to seeing as many sides of the argument as possible, I understand the need not to go jumping off any cliffs here. BUT ... by most measures, it seems population is a readily identifiable problem. And it seems as if consumers could be much, much more diligent about making sure the products they use are eco-friendly -- and letting the corporations know when they're being informally "boycotted" because of eco-unfriendliness.

I'm guilty of this myself. I try very hard not to buy any chinese goods because I am so pissed at the Chinese for a variety of reasons, begining with watching the horror of Tiannamen Square as it unfolded. BUT ... I really haven't written letters or done much (except write a column about it just recently) to let anyone know that I avoid shopping Chinese. So, really, what good do my puny efforts do, even on the level of personal integrity, if I don't tie that effort to some sort of organized response?

And, as fate would have it, there's an interview with Dennis Hayes, founder of Earth Day, in the new Eddie Bauer webzine. It's here: EddieBauer360

And, not to be too self-serving about it, check the "Post This" article in the "Style" department. Ahem. Vote early: vote often.

I don't agree with everything Hayes says in the article, but I certainly think it's a good starting point.

WW

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: WyoWoman
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 08:22 PM

I shouldn't read Web design books while I'm playing on Mudcat. It makes me a dangerous woman.

Anyway, try going to eddiebauer.com, click on the 360 web magazine icon, then in the section called 2nd Nature, there's an interview with Denis Hayes.

And my article is under Style, click on Post This ...

Plain text for me for the rest of the night. Yup. Promise, yessirree bob ... Plain as the rain ...

ww

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Brendy
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 08:37 PM

Try this:

Denis Hayes Article; Wyo Woman's article

B.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 11:22 PM

Wyo,don't get me wrong.I'm in agreement that we humans and our abuse of the Earth are instrumental in the creation of the Global Warming problem,in influencing desertification, the pollution of the oceans and in damaging the ozone layer.I just fear that we find ourselves too often in the mode of preaching to the converted,in bemoaning the fate of the Earth,and railing at the idiocy of those who don't agree with us.There are indeed two sides to the argument; we cannot assume that,because we are in fact right,others will see the rightness of our position.We must learn our facts,fight like tigers when we can,and compromise when we must.

Like the old man in Bullworth said..."You got to be a Spirit.You can't be no ghost."

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Bill D
Date: 09 Sep 00 - 11:23 PM

the trouble is, there are just too many people who think "God will provide" or "science will solve it"......or "it isn't a 'real' problem"........we shall see, huh?

And if the ozone depletion and general pollution don't get ya', overpopulation will. I may yet live to see some of the serious stuff, but I'll probably NOT have to deal with the worst of it.

Sorry, humans, but the universe as a whole just doesn't care whether we survive or not. WE care, and WE are the only ones who can do anything.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: The Beanster
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 01:57 AM

Very ominous. I don't buy the idea that this is a natural cyclic progression. It's happening way too fast for it to be a natural evolution. It's our fault. We did it. And if we go under, we have no one but ourselves to blame.

How we answer certain questions will determine whether or not we survive long-term. Fix the ozone layer or not? Clone or not? Keep letting pediatricians prescribe antibiotics for every child's ear ache and head cold causing mutations which leave us with previously unknown strains of bacteria and viruses that threaten us all? Keep encroaching on rain forests and jungles where we do not belong--bringing out Ebola, Marburg, Dengue Fever, Hanta virus, etc? Raise pigs just to "harvest" their organs for human use via transplants and possibly introduce incurable diseases into the human population?

I think Sinsull hit the nail on the head. We adjust or die--make the right decisions or die. Brutal and simple. Are we smart enough? We'll see. But even if we don't survive, in the scheme of things, that's the way it should be. Survival of the fittest. If we blow it, there will be another smarter, tougher species to take our place at the top of the food chain. I know, I know, this all sounds very detached and philosophical but really?--looking at this situation through my own frightened little eyes, it's pretty darn scary.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Escamillo
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 03:08 AM

The Sun will allow us another 4,000 million years before it explodes and swallows the Earth and surroundings. It seems to be enough time to solve absolutely all our problems, even in the case that our science doesn't evolve any more. The only problem left would be the final escape.

But humankind produces new problems. I hope that the same consciousness that brought us the great discoveries, the grat art works and spiritual achievements, will drive us to a solution, before cockroaches take the leadership, but for the time being, I'm pessimistic too. World leaders are still playing war games and power games. Curiously, we have elected them in democracies.

I'm gathering more info on the ozone hole. Will be back.

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 06:59 AM

Am I the only one who has an uneasy vision of all the atmosphere suddenly sucking out of the ozone hole with a WHOOOOSH! and leaving us lying dead on a blackened coal?

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 10:25 AM

I suppose the saddest part about this is that we have no idea how much worse the ozone hole will get and that it will pretty certainly be around until 2050 or after before it starts to shrink. Human beings are just not good at thinking about things over the long term, and much of the real environmental crisis is incremental, cumulative, and long term -- by the time they are beaten over the head with something, it is too late for human beings put the horse back in the barn. We depend upon the resilience and forgiveness of earth systems.

It is not clear what the effects of increased UV will be on non-human systems. The human and higher animal effects are well known (Cancers, cataracts, etc), but what this is doing to the phytoplankton, zooplankton, and the basics of the foodchain is the real concern. These may adapt quickly, but if not, then a whole raft of creatures up the food chain -- birds, fish, and the large whale species that feed on Antarctic krill and others -- will be decimated.

The truth is, we are conducting a great experiment on the earth, and have no idea what it will do. We are that stupid still about this one and only planet. Which makes us doubly stupid.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 10:54 AM

So many things to have nightmares about--we push them out because they are just too scary to think about. No wonder we have so many angry, crazy people on the planet. There are just too many of us. Seems a simple place to start until you talk to some of the relgious folks.........(not bashing, just stating)

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: winniemih
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 12:16 PM

This thread reminded me of a book that was HIGHLY recommended by a wonderful musician I met last month (which I have not until now followed up on). Believing Cassandra, written by Alan AtKisson (a singer/songwriter, also has an accompanying C.D. for the book) The musician I mentioned said that this is the first thing she has come across that has outlined the environmental situation realistically, but has also been optimistic in outlook, providing workable solutions for achieving sustainability both on a small and large scale, and also providing ways to counteract the despair that full knowledge of our situation can lead to. Thanks for reminding me to get ahold of this book, I think I need it. The Junction at www.chelseagreen.com was the source she gave me, but other book vendors would have it.

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Escamillo
Date: 10 Sep 00 - 11:41 PM

Thanks for your contribution, Peter. One thing I know (and you all may tell me if I'm wrong) is that life originated on Earth, or at least it was imported by comet impacts and later developed on Earth, IN AN OZONE-PROTECTED environment. This does not mean that life could have never evolve otherwise, but I'm pretty sure it should have been DIFFERENT under the crude impact of UV radiation.

How will embryonal cells develop under UV bombardment ? Probably life will suffer a process of adaptation, where the strongest will survive. Then, who are the strongest ?

Un abrazo - Andrés

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: GUEST,Gavin
Date: 11 Sep 00 - 09:04 PM

What!!!!
Conrad in Argentina !???
Is there no stopping him ????
Gavin

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: momnopp
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 12:13 PM

blickie to the latest and greatest on this story. . .as it creeps over Chile.

I'll get back to work, now.

momnopp

Subject: RE: BS: Ozone hole reaches Argentina
From: Escamillo
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 02:21 AM

The clicky thing is outdated now. This is the actual one: Click here