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Subject: RE: Origins: Alison Cross / Allison Gross (Child #35) From: GUEST,Wm Date: 18 Apr 19 - 10:48 AM Dave, thanks for sharing. That's a great insight. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Alison Cross / Allison Gross From: Dave Rado Date: 17 Apr 19 - 02:03 PM Some additional notes of my own gleaned from my research: The song was collected in Aberdeen in 1792 – and that seems to have been the only time it was ever collected from the oral tradition; although it does form one of the Child Ballads. By the 20th century it seems to have been pretty much forgotten – until in the 1970s it was independently revived, in England by Steeleye Span; and in Scotland by the great traditional singer and Traveller, Lizzie Higgins. Lizzie Higgins set the original Scots dialect words to a traditional bagpipe tune called “The Bonnie Lass Gan’ to the Fair”. She turned one of the verses into a chorus, and recorded it twice: the first time under the title Alison Gross and the second time with the title Alison Cross. All the Scottish recordings of the song that have ever been made by other people have been based on hers – and several of them are called Alison Cross, because that’s what she called it. And that’s how folk songs evolve! |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Alison Cross / Allison Gross From: Dave Rado Date: 17 Apr 19 - 01:59 PM I recently sang Steeleye Span's version of Alison Gros in public, and while researching it I contacted Bob Johnson, who brought the song to Steeleye Span and arranged it for them, to ask him why he had removed the original ending about the Queen of the Fairies rescuing the protagonist; why he'd written his chorus for it; why he'd translated it from the Scots dialect; and what was the origin of the tune he'd set it to. His reply is fascinating, and he has kindly given me permission to post it here. One comment I'd like to make regarding his reply is that "Down in Yon Forest" is also supernatural, so was an appropriate choice to use for the melody. It was itself recorded by Steeleye Span many years later, in 2004. Here's Bob's reply to me: ________________________________________ Hello Dave, That's a lot of questions for something I did 46 years ago, but I'll do my best. Firstly, I should say that Steeleye Span as a band did not find, or arrange this song, or any of the others which I brought in. This song and others such as Thomas the Rhymer, Long Lankin, King Henry etc. were songs which I researched and arranged and recorded at home on a professional tape recorder, including the songs structure, chords, and guitar riffs and in some cases, like long Lankin, chorus harmonies as well. I would bring the recording in to rehearsals and everyone would play them, apart from Peter who was free to improvise and compose his own violin parts. Only the songs which Maddy brought in were arranged in rehearsals as a joint effort. Maddy brought in general folk songs which she liked and I was on a mission to introduce the audience to the supernatural stories and murder ballads, but to place them in an electric 'rock' setting. To meet the listening audience halfway, as it were, I took a certain artistic licence with which versions of a song I would use, or collate and I didn't consider it advisable, or necessary to use any of the ballads in their entirety. I tried to get the feel and drama of the story across without expecting the listener to have endless concentration. I adopted the role of a storyteller, or film director, rather than a singer. This is why I gave most of my songs over to Maddy to sing, rather than just sing them because I brought them in. Such a beautiful singer! Alison Gross was my second attempt to put across these stories, King Henry being the first. I decide to sing this one myself with a raw guitar sound to make it a very personal experience of the story. I found the song in the Child Ballad Collection and roughly translated it. All the Child Ballads needed this. I can't remember how. In those days, all research was done in the library of the Cecil Sharp House. No internet. Much more real and exciting. I was aware of the songs academic origins, but I didn't know Ewan had recorded it. I can't remember exactly why I omitted the last part of the story. I would guess that I would have thought it to be too cluttered in getting the drama of the story across and, in looking again at the ballad this morning, I can see that Child expresses surprise at these verses. Given the cross pollination of the stories in the oral tradition, I suspect they found their way in from related ballads, such as ' The Laidly Worm' . I added the line 'Alison Gross she must be......etc.', to give the listener a mental image to anchor the song and a chorus to join in with if they liked. Maddy and I were veterans of the early folk club days, when audiences loved and expected a chorus. An old 'music- hall' tradition. There was no melody that I could find. I ended up using the tune of a carol called 'Down in Yon Forest'. I can't remember why, or how I found it. The carol is in slow 3/4 time, so yes, I did completely alter its time signature and tempo. This process was not unusual at the time. Ewan, Bert Loyd and Martin Carthy all did it. So did the oral tradition itself. A constant flow. People started to sing my version in folk clubs and on recordings without realising that it was not an original tune, or chorus and it found its way into the oral repertoire. I hope this was of some interest to you and I wish you the very best in your performance of a song which means a lot to me. All the best Bob Johnson |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Thomas Stern Date: 12 Oct 12 - 08:43 PM Anyone have any indication how this song entered the revival? From printed sources, or recordings? Keefer lists publication: Leach, MacEdward / The Ballad Book, Harper & Row, Bk (1955), p128 There is a 1962 recording by John Laurie in a collection THE JUPITER BOOK OF BALLADS (Jill Balcon; Isla Cameron; V.C. (Victor Clinton) Clinton-Baddeley ; Pauline Letts; John Laurie; Osian Ellis) released by JUPITER Records (UK) and FOLKWAYS (US). Parcel of Rugues is 1973. Any revival recordings prior to the Jupiter? Thanks, Thomas. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: history of alison cross. anyone? From: GUEST Date: 23 Jun 10 - 02:55 PM I suggest you seek out Charles Vess' Books of Ballads and Sagas which has some history as collected by Ken Roseman in it. It's been rereleased and available on Amazon, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:50 AM That makes sense - I couldn't penetrate all the dialect. I noticed up above just now actually, that that same verse (or rather an altered version) appears to have been placed at the beginning of the song by Steeleye Span. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Jack Blandiver Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:35 AM I've always taken it to mean she comes and washes and combs his hair every Saturday night. It's a piece of tender mercy, or simply caring for the beast he now is; treating him with possessive affection. Rachel & I sang this a lot last year and will no doubt be featuring it in the months to come. Hear our version (live at The Fylde Festival 2008!) at http://www.myspace.com/venereumarvum |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 01 Oct 09 - 08:12 AM There's one verse I don't understand. So after rejecting all her gifts, Alison's finally blown her horn and turned our reluctant leman into a poor old worm, and so now he's crawling around the tree. Then there's this verse (right before Halloween when the Selie Court ride by & he's changed back again): "Wi silver basin an silver kaim Tae kaim my headie upon her knee, Aye on ilka Saturday nicht Aul Alison Gross she comes tae me." What's that mean? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: history of alison cross. anyone? From: Lighter Date: 26 Mar 09 - 08:11 PM Steeleye Span recorded a memorable rock version of it in the '70s. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: history of alison cross. anyone? From: Emma B Date: 26 Mar 09 - 07:55 PM "Allison Gross" (also known as Alison Cross) is a traditional ballad, catalogued as Child Ballad #35. It tells the story of "the ugliest witch in the north country" who tries to persuade a man to become her lover and then punishes him by a transformation. 'Wiki' "This tale is a variety of 'Beauty and the Beast' An elf, a hill troll, a mermaid make a young man offers of splendid gifts to obtain his love or the promise of his faith" From The English and Scottish Popular Ballads edt Francis James Child |
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Subject: RE: Origins: history of alison cross. anyone? From: Bill D Date: 26 Mar 09 - 07:51 PM Also known as Allison Gross |
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Subject: Origins: history of alison cross. anyone? From: GUEST,avia Date: 26 Mar 09 - 07:48 PM hello, i'm looking for the history behind the scottish song alison cross sung by malinky. is it scottish? who wrote it and the air? what is the story behind the lyrics? thanks for any help. good night. avia |
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Subject: ADD Version: Alison Gross From: Roberto Date: 18 Feb 07 - 09:24 AM Alison Gross Lizzie Higgins, In Memory of Lizzie Higgins 1929-1993, Musical Traditions MTCD337-8. Ballad recorded by Peter Hall at the Jeannie Robertson Memorial Concert, 1977. Unfortunately, Peter Hall's tape recorder came to the end of the reel before Lizzie reached the end of the song, and so the final three verses in Times face come from another recording made by Tim Neat. ALISON GROSS Aul Alison Gross she lives in yon tower, The ugliest witch in the north country, Has trysted me ae day til her bower And many a braw speech she's made to me Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree She showed me a mantle of reid scarlet Wrocht wi golden fringes fine. "Gin ye will be my leman so true, This goodly gift it sall be thine". Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree She showed me a sark o the saftest silk, Weel wrocht wi pearls aboun the band. "Gin ye will be my leman so true, This goodly gift at yer command." Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree She showed me a cup o the guid red gowd Weel set wi jewels and they're sae fine. "Gin ye will be my leman so true, This goodly gift it shall be thine." Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree She's taen oot her grass green horn, She's blew it three times loud and shrill, Swore by the moon and stars aboun She'd gar me rue the day that I was born. Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree She's taen oot her silver wand, She's turned three times aroun the tree, Muttered sic words that my sense did fail And I fell doon senseless tae the ground. Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree Wi silver basin an silver kaim Tae kaim my headie upon her knee, Aye on ilka Saturday nicht Aul Alison Gross she comes tae me. Awa, awa, ye ugly witch, Haud far awa an lat me be. Afore I kiss your ugly mou I'd raither toddle around the tree But it fell upon last Halloween When the Seily Court cam ridin by, The Queen's lichted on a gowan bank, Nae far frae the tree where I did lie. She's lifted me in her milk-white hand. She's pricked me three times on her knee. She's turned me back tae ma proper shape. Nae mair I'll toddle aroon the tree. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Sorcha Date: 18 Feb 07 - 02:18 AM Once more, withe feeling. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: katlaughing Date: 22 Aug 06 - 11:57 PM Thanks for all of the above, folks! Have been listening to this song, done by Steelye Span, for the first time, recently, and been meaning to look it up. Mudcat never fails! kat |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 25 Jan 01 - 09:25 PM I made a start on a transcription to midi of Lizzie Higgins' tune, but got bogged down in the ornamentation and postponed finishing it; today, however, I came across a transcription (undecorated) made by Colin Ross and published in English Dance and Song (vol.55, no.2, 1993) which I had forgotten about. I have made a midi from it, and sent it to Alan for the Mudcat Midi Pages. The verse missing from Malinky's arrangement of Lizzie Higgins' set of Allison Cross given above is as follows:
Wi' silver basin, silver kaim,
This goes immediately before the "hallowe'en" verse. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Kernow John Date: 19 Sep 00 - 05:24 AM Barbara Let me have your address and it's no problem. I did send it but to a different Barbara who kindly returned it. Ps. it should of course be 4/4! and there are one or two other errors that I will correct and re-post KJ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Barbara Date: 17 Sep 00 - 07:05 PM KJ, is there any chance you could send it to me email as a MIDI? Otherwise, I think V (Snuffy) can convert ABC, ,but I've never got my ABC software to work ( think I must be missing a file) Congratulations on your success, long may it continue! Interesting that you have it in three/four. I could have sworn it was in 2 or 4. Guess I need to work on improving my transcription skills. Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Kernow Jon Date: 17 Sep 00 - 06:47 AM I can also supply the chords if needed. The music should be OK. but if it don't sound right in places let me know and I'll re-check. I've typed all this in while on a high. We had a gig last night and the crowd wouldn't let us go till after midnight and they've just phoned to book us 5 times next year and increased our fee without us asking! KJ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Kernow Jon Date: 17 Sep 00 - 06:41 AM The words are as given above by Snuffy. The song is listed as traditional, arranged Timothy Hart,Peter knight,Frederick Kemp, Madelaine Prior & Robert Johnson (no further info given). [A] She showed me a cup of the good red gold Well set with jewels so fair to see Saying, "If you will be my lover so true This goodly gift I would give to thee" [B] "Away, away, you ugly witch Go far away and let me be I never would kiss your ugly mouth For all of the gifts that you could give" [A] She's turned her right and round about And thrice she blew on a grass-green horn She swore by the moon and the stars up above That she'd make me rue the day I was born [B] Then out she has taken a silver wand She's turned her three times round and round She's muttered such words till my strength it did fail And she's turned me into an ugly worm. I've listed these verses again to show where they fit into the music. There is a second voice given for part B that I have not included but if anyone want's it let me know. KJ. |
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Subject: Tune Add: ALISON GROSS From: GUEST,Kertnow Jon Date: 17 Sep 00 - 05:47 AM Hope this helps Further explanations to follow X: 1 T:ALISON GROSS M:3/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4 = 120 K:C "v1"ABAG-G2zB|cc c2BBzE|ABAG- GABc-| cd2B-B2zB|cBcd- d-cde-|edcd- dzd| edcd- dd2c|B2GA-A2zE||:"Part A v2. 4."A-BAG- GAB2| cc B2z2E2|AB AG- GA- Bc-|cd2B-B2GG| cdcd- dcde-|edcd-d2zd|ed c2B2dc| BGA2z2zE||"Part B V3. 5."A-BAG- GAB2|ccB2z2E| A-BCG- G-ABc-|cd2B-B2zB|cBcd- d-cde-| edcB- Bcd2|edc2B2dc|BGA2z4| "chorus **"BAA2A2z2|AB2d-d2zD|edcB-Bd2c| B2c-BA4|GAA2A2z2|AB2d-d2z"TO **"d| edcB- Bd2c| M:2/4 B4 c2-B2| M:4/4 A4|"1. 3. "z4z2zE:||
% Output from ABC2Win Version 2.1 h on 9/17/2000 |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 15 Sep 00 - 05:24 PM I should explain that it's the link on the site that doesn't work. Also, it turns out that the link I've just given won't take you there, but will invite you to download the file, so please don't use it unless you intend to do that; my apologies for any confusion. They intend in due course to make the files available in .pdf format, incidentally. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 15 Sep 00 - 05:17 PM The final .zip file on the site I mentioned above contains Child texts 1-305, but be warned; the link doesn't work. This one should do: http://www.colorado.edu/ArtsSciences/CCRH/Ballads/text.ZIP It's a 1087 KB file, and will need to be given a .txt extension when unzipped. As MMario said, there is a lot of stuff to strip out so that it can be easily read. As it's a concordance, they haven't transcribed the notes. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Barbara Date: 15 Sep 00 - 04:13 PM If you look further back in this thread, the words should be there. Check them out against the songbook, John, and let us know if there are differences. according to the book, who wrote the tune? Blessings, BArbara |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Barbara Date: 15 Sep 00 - 04:11 PM SUUURRRE! Know how to post the tune? If not, ship me a MIDI at millikan@viclink.com Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Kernow John Date: 15 Sep 00 - 12:36 PM Sorry should have said I have the words and music. KJ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Kernow John Date: 15 Sep 00 - 12:35 PM I have this in the Steeleye Span song book and could post it if anyone is interested. KJ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Barbara Date: 15 Sep 00 - 01:07 AM You're right, Malcolm. I'd been assuming that any guitar that percussive and off beat was Martin, and now that I read the notes, I see it isn't. I thought he was the only one in the group who did that stacato effect. Out of curiosity, do you know who it is? Robert Johnson? Stripped of its rhythmic changes, the tune is pretty straightforward. Let me post it that way, and see what it sounds like. Is anyone familiar with the Malinky tune, and if so could you post it?
Blessings, |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 15 Sep 00 - 12:52 AM Thanks Malcolm. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 14 Sep 00 - 11:03 PM Lizzie Higgins' version was recorded on What a Voice (Lismor LIFL 7004, 1985); all the notes have to say is: "...came to Lizzie through her father, who learned it from his mother", which isn't terribly helpful. The text is pretty much as quoted by Jock Morris, above, though his transcription lacks a verse, and there are the usual minor variations. I'll try to sort out a midi from Lizzie's singing, but it may take time. So far as I can tell (and I do agree about their sleeve-notes), Steeleye Span made their tune up themselves, but Martin Carthy wasn't involved; he was long gone by then. If he'd still been around, they'd have made a better job of it. Dave and Toni Arthur recorded a version, (on Hearken to the Witches' Rune, Trailer LER 2017, 1970) set to a melody that I take to be a modified (modal) form of the tune Cecil Sharp found in Somerset with The Knight and the Shepherd's Daughter, including a form of the refrain: "Line, twine, the willow dee". As Bruce has pointed out, there are no known traditional tunes for this song prior to the late 20th century, so anybody who's recorded an earlier text has got the music from somewhere else. Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 14 Sep 00 - 09:58 PM Bronson's 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads' has in vol. IV, 1972, an addenda with some tunes collected as late as 1967, but there's no tune for "Allison Gross", #35, there. So, when and where did Lizzie Higgins' version of the ballad appear? Can anyone supply us her version, text and tune? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 14 Sep 00 - 09:39 PM There is also (assuming we're not talking about the same thing) A "Working" KWIC Concordance to Francis James Child's The English and Scottish Popular Ballads (1882-1898) by Cathy Lynn Preston, University of Colorado. I've only so far tried one of the (large) zipped files available, and once unzipped they have to be given a .ps or .eps extension so that programs such as Photoshop can read them (text editors would be a serious nightmare, as they display all the associated code!); however these do seem to be, well, concordances rather than straight transcriptions. Maybe later files will prove to contain the actual texts rather than a comparative list of words and phrases, though given the source I rather doubt it. Something, perhaps, to explore at leisure... Malcolm |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: MMario Date: 14 Sep 00 - 09:20 PM Susan - it's pretty ratty - How about I send it too you as I get it prettied up? As I said, the original was in database format and that made it pretty illegible...not to mention huge. have 1 through 10 done. Halfway through 11-20. text or ms-word? PM me... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Susan of DT Date: 14 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM One of the projects Dick and I dream about is putting Child and Bronson on a CD, crossreferenced and click to play. We thought we would have to scan in all of Child. Mario - you have it on computer already??? Can I have a copy of the file??? Pretty please??? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Barbara Date: 14 Sep 00 - 07:18 PM Do they ever tell you these things in the Steeleye Span liner notes? No, they do not. I hate their notes. No history, no sources, no documentation, no song words, just chatty little info about the band: "...a ballad exemplifying the dramatic power of electric instrumentation, and realized during the recording that one of their distinguishing features, the fact that they didn't have a drummer, had become a handicap. So they added ....on their next..." AAAAAAGGHHRRR! Blessings, and the occasional grump, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Snuffy Date: 14 Sep 00 - 06:23 PM So where did Steeleye Span get their tune from? Is it traditional or did they make it up themselves? Wassail! V |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: GUEST,Bruce O. Date: 14 Sep 00 - 04:27 PM The text in DT is pretty close to Child's text, #35, (there's only one text) from the Jamieson-Brown MS. There's no traditional tune for it (or any version) in Bertrand Bronson's 'The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads' |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: MMario Date: 14 Sep 00 - 03:46 PM BTW - thanks for reminding me about that! I should start working on that little project again! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: MMario Date: 14 Sep 00 - 03:41 PM Joe - I don't remember where I found it, but out there is a text file (ascii delimited) of child's ballads. thorugh 305 C I believe. it was well over 2500 pages when I started work on it. (I haven't gotten very far) in Word, 1A thorugh 10Y is 48 pages, double columned. I have that as a seperate file. I don't vouch for the accuracy of the transcription as I have no idea who did it. all I know is it had to be an incredible amount of work. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Mary in Kentucky Date: 14 Sep 00 - 03:04 PM Joe, Lesley Nelson has been working on making midis of various Child ballads. Her site is here. (http://www.contemplator.com) |
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Subject: Child Online? From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Sep 00 - 01:51 PM MMario, my interest has been piqued. Tell us more. -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: MMario Date: 14 Sep 00 - 01:39 PM Joe - Child *IS* available online, but you have to look very very hard.....and download...and then it is in a very awkward format to read. I'd offer to send it to you, but I'm still in the process of editing it down for legibility (not taking out text, just reformatting the file, which was in an ascii type database) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Barbara Date: 14 Sep 00 - 01:06 PM Snuffy, and all, I have given Alison Gross (Steeleye Span version) a long listen now, and I'm pretty sure that the basic time is 4/4 but y'know Martin Carthy, right? You are familiar with the wonderful, percussive off-beat things he does with time? Alison Gross is a sterling example of that. The singers/guitar on that song are before, after, tied over and syncopated to the downbeat. So, should we try to put any, all of that in DT? I'm not sure my skills are up to it (any more than yours, Snuffy/V). So, find someone else? Or do we go with the Steeleye Span tune, but with the kinks taken out? Or should we find the Child tune? Susan? V? Joe? Anyone? Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: Is Child Online? From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 00 - 10:05 PM Oh, Snuffy, it would be wonderful if Child were online, but it ain't. We have many songs in the database that are transcribed from Child (but, as Susan says, not always identified as such). As I said above (probably while you were typing your question), the version of this song is very close to the Child version - Susan just typed the modern forms of some words, like perhaps "away" instead of "awa'" - very minor differences. Mudcatter Bruce Olson (click) [now at /olson/viewpage.cfm] has some terrific old stuff on his site, but I don't think he's gone so far as to transcribe all ten volumes of Child. Bruce is always happy to answer questions, and many of us have Child and other old references available. Just post a question, and somebody will jump to respond. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Snuffy Date: 13 Sep 00 - 09:34 PM Joe, Cross or Gross? I've also seen Crowse. Susan, I know that not all songs with a Child # are actually in Child (I have 5 versions of #110 that almost certainly aren't) - but as I have never seen Child, I was asking whether the DT text was from Child itself or another source. Is Child available online anywhere? Wassail! V |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Sep 00 - 09:13 PM Susan, the version in the database is almost exactly the same as what's in Child. Child has only one version of this ballad. This is a great song. I think I'll have to learn it and then go visit Australia, so I can sing it for a certain individual... -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Susan of DT Date: 13 Sep 00 - 06:21 AM Back in the olden days of my entering songs, I indicated recordings so that people could hear some version of the song, not necessarily to indicate that I got that version from that record. I also did not used to be very careful about saying where I had gotten the version. I had to have gotten it from a book, since I do not know the words. Joe - It is generally known as Gross, or at least that is how I have always seen it. Snuffy - The Child number is used to identify songs, whether or not that particular version was included in Child's collection. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Sep 00 - 11:54 PM Is it Cross, Gross, or both? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 12 Sep 00 - 08:09 PM The version in the DT is Anna Brown's, though somebody has partly modernised the words. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: ALLISON CROSS (from Malinky)^^ From: Jock Morris Date: 12 Sep 00 - 09:04 AM As promised here's Malinky's version: ALLISON CROSS Alison Cross lives in yon tower The ugliest witch in the North countrie She's trysted me ae day til her bower And mony's the braw speech she made tae me She showed me a mantle o reid scarlet Weel wrocht wi gowd and fringes fine Says gin ye'll be my leman sae true This gudely gift it shall be thine
Haud far awa and let me be Afore I'll kiss yer ugly mou I'd raither toddle aroond the tree She showed me a sark o the saftest silk Weel wrocht wi pearls abune the band Says gin ye'll be my leman sae true This gudely gift's at your command She showed me a cup o the gude reid gowd Weel wrocht wi jewels sae fair and fine Says gin ye'll be my leman sae true This gudely gift it shall be thine She's ta'en oot her grass green horn She blew it three times loud and shrill She swore by the moon and the stars abune She'd gar me rue the day I ever was born She's ta'en oot her silvery wand She straiked it three times o'er her knee She's muttered sic words as my senses failed I feel doon senseless tae the ground It fell upon last Halloween When the seely coort came riding by The Queen's lichit doon on a gowany bank Nae far fae the tree whaur I did lie She's ta'en oot her silvery wand She straked it three times o'er her knee She's turned me back tae ma proper shape Nae mare tae toddle around the tree From the sleeve notes "Last leaves (1925 publication of the Greig-Keith collection Last Leaves of Traditional Ballads and Ballad Airs) refers to a version from 1783 by a Mrs Brown and ours is a shortened version from the singing of the great Lizzie Higgins" ^^ Jock |
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Subject: Lyr Add: ALISON GROSS (from Steeleye Span)^^ From: Snuffy Date: 11 Sep 00 - 07:04 PM Just to keep the record straight, this is what Steeleye Span actually sing ALISON GROSS Oh, Alison Gross, that lives in yon tower The ugliest witch in the north country Has trysted me one day up to her bower And many a fair speech she made to me She stroked my head and she combed my hair And she set me down softly on her knee Saying, "If you will be my lover so true So many good things I would give to you'" "Away, away, you ugly witch Go far away and let me be I never will be your lover so true And I wish I were out of your company" Alison Gross, she must beShe showed me a mantle of red scarlet With golden flowers and fringes fine Saying, "If you will be my lover so true This goodly gift it shall be thine" She showed me a shirt of the softest silk Well wrought with pearls about the band Saying, "If you will be my lover so true This goodly gift you shall command" Alison Gross, she must beShe showed me a cup of the good red gold Well set with jewels so fair to see Saying, "If you will be my lover so true This goodly gift I would give to thee" "Away, away, you ugly witch Go far away and let me be I never would kiss your ugly mouth For all of the gifts that you could give" Alison Gross, she must beShe's turned her right and round about And thrice she blew on a grass-green horn She swore by the moon and the stars up above That she'd make me rue the day I was born Then out she has taken a silver wand She's turned her three times round and round She's muttered such words till my strength it did fail And she's turned me into an ugly worm Alison Gross, she must be Wassail! V ^^ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Barbara Date: 11 Sep 00 - 02:52 PM I'm planning on transcribing the tune in the next day or so from the STeeleye Span version, so I can see what I come up with for words at the same time. Blessings, Barbara |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Allison Gross From: Jock Morris Date: 11 Sep 00 - 12:27 PM I believe it is a Scottish song, though usually known across here as Alison Cross. Malinky (excellent young Scottish band) have a version on their new CD. I'll try and find the time to post the lyrics tomorrow. Their version is very similar to the DT version, but the Scots language is better than the DT version. Jock Morris |
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Subject: Allison Gross From: Snuffy Date: 11 Sep 00 - 09:59 AM The version in the DT states: Child#35 Recorded by Steeleye Span, Parcel of Rogues but the text is not Steeleye's version. The Steeleye version only covers the first 2/3 of what's in DT, has been "translated" into English, and has a chorus which is not in DT. The DT version appears to be Scottish in origin and presumably older. Is it from Child or has it come from elsewhere? Is the Steeleye Span tune the one traditionally associated with this older version? Or did they "borrow" their tune from somewhere else? Wassail! V
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