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Irish song info request

GUEST,Claire Zucker 19 Sep 00 - 03:55 PM
Alice 19 Sep 00 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,Claire 19 Sep 00 - 04:50 PM
Noreen 19 Sep 00 - 06:59 PM
Noreen 19 Sep 00 - 07:37 PM
Noreen 19 Sep 00 - 09:20 PM
Noreen 19 Sep 00 - 09:33 PM
Alice 19 Sep 00 - 11:32 PM
Alice 19 Sep 00 - 11:50 PM
GUEST,Claire 20 Sep 00 - 09:28 PM
Áine 20 Sep 00 - 09:46 PM
GUEST,Claire 21 Sep 00 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,gordy4@audi4.fsnet.co.uk 21 Sep 00 - 03:35 PM
smpc 06 Sep 09 - 01:34 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 06 Sep 09 - 01:41 PM
Willa 06 Sep 09 - 01:47 PM
smpc 06 Sep 09 - 02:16 PM
Rog Peek 06 Sep 09 - 02:34 PM
GUEST,Peter Laban 06 Sep 09 - 02:36 PM
Rog Peek 06 Sep 09 - 02:58 PM
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Subject: Irish song info request
From: GUEST,Claire Zucker
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 03:55 PM

Hi, I am new to this forum, but I was wondering if someone out there might be able to help me with background information on some songs. I am involved in recording a first cd with my band (we play Irish traditional music) We're considering a variety of different songs, and I'm looking for additional information on any the following- (beyond what I can find on liner notes in my cd collection & a few songbooks).... I realize that's a very broad question- but if you have any interesting background, we'd appreciate it- for example where & when they might have originated, singers they were associated with ... or ????

Also, one of these songs was probably written in the 1960's, but I am not sure of how to get permission to record it.

I listed the songs below. Thanks very much for helping us out.

Star of the County Down (tune dates to 1726, but I don't know, but I don't know when the song was firt collected

Soldier Soldier (a children's song) (earliest date 1903, author unknown

Peata Beag (in Gaelic)

Scartaglen

Teddy O'Neill

Lonely Shanakyle (written by Thomas Madigan of Carnacalla, Kilrush, Co. Clare around 1960, how do I get permission to record this?)


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 04:26 PM

Claire, if you put Star of the County Down in the search forum box, it will bring up discussion threads on the song. I'm not sure if we have discussed all the songs you listed, but searching with each title will result in whatever has been posted about each song. For those that we haven't discussed, starting a new thread on each song with the title in the thread will yield more specific attention and feedback.


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 04:50 PM

Alice, Thank you for your suggestion, and I must be more diligent with this. I have used mudcat to find lyrics, but everytime I have submitted the name to find discussions on a song, the computer searched a long time and I don't get results. If I don't get any replies, I will also refine my thread name. Thanks for your help... I am new to this.

Claire


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 06:59 PM

I'm interested in where you got your info. on Lone Shanakyle, Claire. It was indeed written by Thomas Madigan of Carnacalla, Kilrush, Co. Clare, but he lived from 1797 to 1881 and LS is thought to have been written during the 1860s. So no permission needed! I'll scan in some more info on it in a bit.

Noreen


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 07:37 PM

Here you are, Claire. Good choice of song!

The following is reprinted from 'Traditional Songs and Singers' published by Comhaltas Ceoltóiri Éireann (1977?), where Séamus Mac Mathúna says:

LONE SHANAKYLE

I was sure that this song had been "lost" as I had never heard more than a few lines of it in a score or more years; but when I met Michael Flanagan of Inagh in 1974 it was the first song on his lips. It comes from the Kilrush area of County Clare. Shanakyle (in Irish, SeanaChill) is the site of a graveyard outside Kilrush, and Inis Cathaigh is, of course, St. Senan's Island ? also known as Scattery Island, on the Shannon.

There is a passion and sincerity in Michael Flanagan's rendering which never fails to grip his lesteners; some lines paint a startling, even an appalling picture, e.g.-
"Dark, dark is the night-cloud o'er lone Shanakyle
Where the murdered sleep silently pile upon pile
In the coffinless graves of poor Erin."

The parish of Kilrush and the surrounding areas were most grievous strucken during the famine years. A total of over 3,900 people died in the workhouse in Kilrush during the three years 1847-'49 and most of these were carted to a common famine pit in Shanakyle. The evidence can be seen in the graveyard to this day, and no amount of re-writing of Irish history can change these facts.

Lone Shanakyle was written by thomas Madigan of Carnacalla, Kilrush (1797-1881) who was a scholar and poet, writing in both English and Irish and a friend of that other renowned West Clare scholar Eoghan 0 Comhrai. Lone Shanakyle was probably written during the 1860's, the last verse being inspired by the expected Fenian Rising. The air is a variant of the "Paistin Fionn"

MICHAEL FLANAGAN of Ballyduffbeg, Inagh, Co. Clare, was 81 years of age when I recorded this song and some ten others from him in April 1974. Even at that age he is one of the best traditional singers I have heard. He sings with a heart and involvement which one might expect from a man of half his years.


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 09:20 PM

Click here for the lyrics to Soldier Soldier in the DT- all it says there is that it was collected by Sharp, and I have it listed elsewhere as English traditional.

I'm pretty sure you'll find Teddy O'Neill and Star of the County Down if you do a forum search, but I'm off to bed now!

Best of luck with your enquiries.

Noreen


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Noreen
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 09:33 PM

[Thank you, elves- I should have gone to bed sooner!]


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:32 PM

Claire, I'm curious. Where did you learn Lone Shanakyle? Did you have it on a recording or in a songbook, or did another singer teach it to you? It doesn't seem to be one widely recorded. Sounds like you have a good list going for your CD.


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 00 - 11:50 PM

Dervish, perhaps? I'm just looking at some of their albums.


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 09:28 PM

Hi there, First of all, Thank you so much Noreen for looking into Lonely Shanakyle for me. Perhaps the 1960's date was a misprint on the cd (or maybe I copied the date down wrong). I am so glad to know when it was written, because I have wondered how those poignant lines could possibly have been written in retrospect (ie from the 1960's).

Alice, Lonely Shanakyle was recorded by Deante and by Dirvish. My rendition is a bit different from both of them. After I learn a song, I try to put my own feeling and ornamentation into the song, so I don't listen to the recording very much after a certain point.

Thank you for your encouragement about the song list. I only hope I can do the wonderful material justice. Our first recording date is the 30th. Yikes.

Claire


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Áine
Date: 20 Sep 00 - 09:46 PM

Dear Claire,

Its Lone Shanakyle, not 'lonely'. Wouldn't want you to put the wrong name on your CD. What's the name of your group, by the way?

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: GUEST,Claire
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 01:25 PM

My, but that would be embarrassing, wouldn't it. There are so many details to check on in the next few months. I suppose over time, I have just taken to calling it Lonely Shanakyle.

My group is called Round the House. We play out of Tucson AZ, and have a web site (currently located on geocities) if your interested. I am relatively new to the genre (2 yrs), but the rest of the band has been playing for many years. I am very interested in talking to others that are working on Irish traditional singing styles. There is a lifetime of stuff to learn, but due to the performing nature of this band, I have had to jump right into this.

Claire


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: GUEST,gordy4@audi4.fsnet.co.uk
Date: 21 Sep 00 - 03:35 PM

Can you help, I have been looking for a song for over 50yrs, My granddad used to sing it to me as a small boy,and used to say that there were more verses. One person thought it might be from Vaudeville, another a Irish folk song,others a sea shanty, Who knows??? It goes, Oh can anybody kindly tell me have they seen poor Billy Flynn. It is no joke his nose is broke and one eye in a sling. He hops about on a wooden leg,the thought of it makes me cry. He makes a little round hole in the mud as he goes and thats how we tell him by.. Any help welcome--Any idea's - web sites - Gordy


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: smpc
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:34 PM

has anyone the words to Lone Shanakyle?


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:41 PM

Far far from the isle of the holy and grand
    Where wild oxen fatten and brave men are banned
    All lowly and low in a far distant land
    Do I wander and pine for poor Erin


    Lonely and sad I roam, far from my island home
    Where the wild waves, surging foams, headlands appearing
    Clouded in silv'ry spray, thrashing through heaven's bright ray
    For the glory and pride of poor Erin

    Sweet, sweet Inis Cathaigh that's sacred and blessed
    A fit place for a saint or a warrior's rest
    O God that a bear should be best of his brood
    Who now bites your beauty my Erin

    How dearly I long to wander once more
    To the old ones I left round my own cabin door
    My blessings I give ten thousand times o'er
    With a prayer and a tear for poor Erin

    Sad, sad is my fate in weary exile
    Dark, dark are the night clouds round lone Shanakyle
    Your murdered sleep silently pile upon pile
    In the coffinless graves of poor Erin

    I am watching and praying through the length of the night
    For the grey dawn of freedom my signal to fight
    My rifle is ready my sabre is bright
    For to strike once again for poor Erin

    Lonely and sad I roam, far from my island home
    Where the wild waves, surging foams, headlands appearing
    Clouded in silvery spray, thrashing through heaven's bright ray
    For the glory and pride of poor Erin


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Willa
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 01:47 PM

Hi Clare
Why not become a member? Doesn't cost anything and you can then exchange PMs (private messages) with other members.

If you have no luck when using a title to search, try using a phrase from the song; that sometimes works


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: smpc
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 02:16 PM

thanks now i can get down to work learning it!! !


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Rog Peek
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 02:34 PM

Welcome Claire

I have a song called 'My Dear Old Scartaglen' sung by 'Catriona' on a cd.

1st verse goes like this:

Well now the day is dawned at last , when I must say farewell
I can't look back for my bags are packed and I face the ocean swell
It's sad to say I'm on my way, my sorrows now prevail
As I bid adieu to the friends I knew, and my dear old Scartaglen.

The CD called "Along The County Bounds" a compilation of songs and music from Cork and Kerry, was recorded for The Rathmore Social Action Group, all proceeds going to this organisaion.

There are no details of the song, but there is a web site Rathmore sag   and an email info@sag.ie

Rathmore and Scartaglen are only a few miles apart, in the heart of Sliabh Luachra so even if this is not your song, they may very well be able to put you in touch with someone who has local knowledge of it.

Best of Luck
Rog


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 02:36 PM

Take note of the date on OP


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Subject: RE: Irish song info request
From: Rog Peek
Date: 06 Sep 09 - 02:58 PM

Silly me!

Still someone might be interested.

Rog

PS Not the first time I've done that, probably won't be the last!


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