The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 05:24 PM

I just googled on the Workhouse Boy, and found the words here
with an acknowledgment that they came from Mudcat, so I guess it's in the DT!

Kitty

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:41 PM

The Workhouse Boy is here: Workhouse Boy - DT.

There are three copies in the Bodleian; here's one printed in Birmingham: The Workhouse Boy - Pratt of Birmingham. The broadside texts make it clear that he fell in the soup while trying to get some more:

  To gain his fill, the boy did stoop,
  And dreadful to tell he vas boiled in the soup.

Mick

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 03:43 AM

There's also a thread: Lyr Add: Workhouse boy.

Mick

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 12:59 PM

The Workhouse Boy, a new one on me I must confess, is very similar to the Mistletoe Bough, sharing many of the same phrases and clearly fitting the same tune. i don't know Nic Jones tune.

Since the Mistletoe Bough is usually dated 1884 I would imagine the Broadside is the earlier one.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 02:09 PM

I think the Mistletoe Bough is earlier than that Dave. Bayly died in 1839, and I think I've seen 1820 as a date for The Mistletoe Bough (though a play of that name dates from 1834, so it may be later). The dated copies of The Workhouse Boy at the Bodleian only definitely put it before 1844 I think (though with an earliest possible date as 1819), and the copy titles The Vorkhouse Boy gives The Mistletoe Bough as the tune. I suspect The Workhouse Boy was modelled on the Mistletoe Bough rather than the other way round.

Mick

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Folkiedave
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 07:17 PM

Thanks for that. I took the site as gospel. Slaps back of hand and writes out 100 times CHECK!!

You have to be correct. Then along comes........................

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 06:02 PM

The Vorkhouse Boy was most definitely a parody of Bayly's 'Mistletoe Bough'. It was actually advertised as such.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Folkiedave
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 06:08 PM

Just the man I was expecting to appear!!

Are you coming across for Malcolm Day?

Matin and Shan are staying with us Sunday night.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 13 Oct 09 - 06:11 PM

Thread-creep-galore Alert here....

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: GUEST,padgett on lap top
Date: 14 Oct 09 - 10:17 AM

Workhouse boy ~ I believe was recorded by one of Mick Peats groups? I have somewhere on vinyl

Creep on!

Ray

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: rich-joy
Date: 14 Oct 09 - 08:03 PM

for words of "The Collier Lass" (as mentioned in this thread), see :

thread.cfm?threadid=114888#2454721


Cheers,
R-J

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 11:17 AM

My daughter wants to do this song (Testimony of Patience Kershaw), but I hate the Unthanks' arrangement and the only other one I can find on YouTube is a gentleman called Crook whose version I find less than compelling. Can anyone point me to other available audio versions, or do I have to start hunting down the various recorded versions mentioned above CD by CD, record collectors' shop by record collectors' shop?

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 11:21 AM

I did find an unaccompanied version by Elle Osborne on the internet

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 11:56 AM

If you can read music, it might be just as well for your daughter to work the song up from the dots -- that way she can make her own choices about pacing, rhythm, emphasis etc., and the end result would probably be far more satisfactory than a clone copy.
It's a great song, and would be well worth the effort.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 11:57 AM

I have a version...see PMs

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 12:12 PM

Thanks Bill

EKanne - we can both determine pitch very slowly from dots but find timing very hard indeed. We have I think generally avoided "clone" versions of things

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Grampus
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 12:27 PM

Excellent version to be found on Gary & Vera Aspey's 1979 LP 'Seeing Double'. Also another good version, by the Ian Campbell Folk Group, on their 1972 LP 'Something to sing about'
HTH
G.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 12:46 PM

I have some Ian Campbell vinyl - must check...

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 12:48 PM

There's a very good version by Mudcatter RichardfromLiverpool on his Liverpool Folk Song a Week blog:- Patience Kershaw.

Matthew

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 20 Sep 11 - 07:04 PM

I like the Aspey version best so far.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 03:05 AM

Vera Aspey's version is the first I heard - in the early '70s, I think - and it stunned a last night folk festival audience. It was so honest, so raw, and so RIGHT.
IMO, you couldn't look for a better model.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Grampus
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 04:14 AM

Seconded. Vera's a very under rated singer IMO
G.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Acorn4
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 04:18 AM

In fact, I think I'm right in saying that the testimony was part of the evidence produced for a Parliamentary Commission which led to the passing of the Mines Act in 1842, so in spite of the tragedy of the evidence, there was a good outcome.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Ana
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 04:35 AM

Interesting to see this thread resurrected. Just today I was listening to some older CD's and was remembering this one of MacAlias "Winter Sun". Lovely sad song.

www.ltscotland.org.uk/scotlandssongs/secondary/genericcontent_tcm4572921.asp

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: stallion
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:02 AM

There is no doubt that there were some rightous people around but please do not be kidded into thinking it was all altruistic, the loading of ships and the safety of ships was more to do with the Lloyds names not being skanked out their capital every time a ship went down and dressed up as welfare for sailors, sewers were installed into cities because it was proved that the money spent on fitting could be recovered within three years and move into further profit with increased productivity. Free milk was introduced into schools because during the first world war half the volunteers (uk) were suffering from ricketts and were unfit for service. The real benefits to the working classes owe as much to insurance companies, like the introduction of a fire service, than some altruistic desire to improve Joe Bloggs life. Indeed if you look at the real benefits like shorter working hours, they were hard won by the trade unions, my father worked a six day week until the unions negotiated it away (in the 1950's, probably post were fears of revolution). The Welfare state and the destruction of the workhouse, as someone has already pointed out was pay back time for making two generations of grafters into cannon fodder. So don't be kidded into thinking there isn't an ulterior motive, if you look hard enough you will find something like not enough women in the mills which needed maybe dexterity, I don't really know but I could make it a mission to find out, don't really have the time. There is a Yorkshire saying "Tha don't get owt fer nowt" and the oft quoted phrase "If it sounds too good to be true it usually is". So harrowing as The Testimony is you can bet that the principal aim was not to improve the life of the workers but an excercise to manipulate the economics of the supply in the workforce. Horses for courses however right or wrong the rationale was behind it.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:04 AM

In case this helps, The Testimony of Patience Kershaw was included in "My Song is My Own" - an anthology of 100 women's songs put together by Kathy Henderson, Frankie Armstrong and Sandra Kerr, and published by Pluto Press in 1979. The note says that the song was written by Frank Higgins in 1969, based on testimony given by 17-year old Patience Kershaw to the Royal Commission on Children's Employment, 1842. It was reproduced by kind permission of EFDS Publications Ltd (Chappell & Co Ltd).

Kitty

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 05:57 AM

~~So don't be kidded into thinking there isn't an ulterior motive, if you look hard enough you will find something~~

No, stallion ~ you will; because that is your cynical self-righteous lefty mindset. We don't all want to 'look hard enough'. Those like you remind me of the woman who complained to the police that she could see her male neighbour undressing, and when the officer they sent round said he couldn't see anything, replied, "Oh, you have to stand on that chair."

There's just no satisfying some people!

~M~

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:06 AM

The campaign to end child labour was run by altruists, often people of strong faith.
Unions had yet to become a powerful force for change.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:22 AM

Robert Owen, reformer (child labour in factories.)
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/IRowen.htm

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:38 AM

"Mother bides at home, she is troubled with bad breath, and is sair weak in her body from early labour. I am wrought with sister and brother, it is very sore work; cannot say how many rakes or journeys I make from pit's bottom to wall face and back, thinks about 30 or 25 on the average; the distance varies from 100 to 250 fathom. I carry about 1 cwt. and a quarter on my back; have to stoop much and creep through water, which is frequently up to the calves of my legs." (Isabella Read, 12 years old, coal-bearer, testimony gathered by Ashley's Mines Commission 1842)[21]

"My father has been dead about a year; my mother is living and has ten children, five lads and five lasses; the oldest is about thirty, the youngest is four; three lasses go to mill; all the lads are colliers, two getters and three hurriers; one lives at home and does nothing; mother does nought but look after home. All my sisters have been hurriers, but three went to the mill. Alice went because her legs swelled from hurrying in cold water when she was hot. I never went to day-school; I go to Sunday-school, but I cannot read or write; I go to pit at five o'clock in the morning and come out at five in the evening; I get my breakfast of porridge and milk first; I take my dinner with me, a cake, and eat it as I go; I do not stop or rest any time for the purpose; I get nothing else until I get home, and then have potatoes and meat, not every day meat. I hurry in the clothes I have now got on, trousers and ragged jacket; the bald place upon my head is made by thrusting the corves; my legs have never swelled, but sisters' did when they went to mill; I hurry the corves a mile and more under ground and back; they weigh 300 cwt.; I hurry 11 a-day; I wear a belt and chain at the workings, to get the corves out;" (Patience Kershaw, 17 years old, coal-bearer, testimony gathered by Ashley's Mines Commission 1842)[21]

Children as young as four were put to work. In coal mines children began work at the age of 5 and generally died before the age of 25. Many children (and adults) worked 16 hour days. As early as 1802 and 1819, Factory Acts were passed to limit the working hours of workhouse children in factories and cotton mills to 12 hours per day.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 21 Sep 11 - 06:51 AM

Is 300 cwt an error? I can not envisage the burden being 15 long tons.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: 2581
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 04:13 PM

In addition to Elle Osborne & the Ian Campbell Folk Group, Enoch Kent does a powerful a cappella version in his album "For The Women". Sally Rogers also does an a cappella version in her album "Generations". Personally I like the Unthanks' version better than any other I have heard.

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Alio
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 06:49 PM

Thanks for the info Suzanne - I've sung it many times and always found it very emotional, but that brings it even more to life! Wonderful song.
Ali x

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 30 Sep 11 - 06:58 PM

Richard, wasn't the weight was in a car on a track? More possible that way.

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: The Testimony Of Patience Kershaw-child miner
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Oct 11 - 02:27 PM

Richard - Agree with you on the Unthanks.

HAve a listen to Roy Baileys version - not sure which LP but reissued in 92 on compilation CD

Dead straight - most compelling. Made me go and look it up the first time I heard it and that was in the proto-web years. Fantastic history lesson - "God bless you sir at least you tried".

Write and ask him ... shy bairns get nowt