Halloween Songs [2]

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: Stewart
Date: 26 Sep 01 - 07:14 PM

My choice - THE GREEN LADY.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: Greyeyes
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 09:12 AM

It is not entirely true that Halloween is not celebrated in England. Trick or Treating has become more popular in recent years, but in my childhood, (early seventies), we always had a Halloween party, with special food and games, particularly bobbing for apples. It is sad to see the English way of celebrating these old festivals gradually dying out and being replaced by American style activities, but that's globalisation at work. Guy Fawkes night is not a big event in the calendar of English Catholics.

Bit of a non-musical diversion:

I went to a boarding school in Devon called Allhallows, which not surprisingly was pretty big on Halloween. In the C19, before the school moved there, a cargo ship laden with marble was wrecked on Halloween on the coast below the cliffs on which the school perched. The master of the big house later gained salvage rights to the ship and its cargo and built a great marble staircase in the house. The ghost of the ship's captain was said to walk up the cliff path into the house every year on Allhallow's Eve. The 6th form boys used to collect sacks of seaweed from the beach every year and at dead of night spread it in the entrance to what we called the Main School, along the corridor and up the marble staircase. The trail disappeared outside the Headmaster's study on the upstairs corridor. It was all very Harry Potter looking back on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 11:21 AM

"Goodbye Yellow Brick Road" had a piece called "Funeral for a Friend/Love Lies Bleeding. John Fogerty's second solo album had some good spooky stuff.

"Spiders and Snakes"--Jim Stafford.

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: IanC
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 11:35 AM

GreyEyes

Thanks. Traditionally, in parts of England, Halloween was another carolling day, with a souling song (begging song) used to accompany visits to local houses. See the other thread here.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: John J
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 12:53 PM

Check out any Souling Plays that are performed in your area, Souling Plays are performed at All Souls, which is immediately AFTER Halloween.

John

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: VoxFox
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 01:24 PM

Just jumping in with a ditty my father played on the piano called "Spooky Takes a Holiday", I don't know any more about it or if there are words or not but it used to make me giggle when he played it so rousingly on a dark and rainy night.Sadly he's gone but the song lingers on....VF

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: Greyeyes
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 02:48 PM

Halloween, Oct.31st, is of course the eve of All Saints Day, Nov 1st. All Souls Day was Nov 2nd, but the souling songs and plays were often performed on All Souls Eve, or the evening of Nov 1st. To further confuse matters many of the songs and customs predate christianity anyway and are more to do with Samhain, the pagan festival which took place around the beginning of November.
According to Brewer it is coincidental that the Catholic church holds All Souls day so close to Halloween, Click here
here is an interesting article about souling.

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: Greyeyes
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 03:03 PM

I meant to say here is an interesting article about souling.

---

Greyeyes needs to go back to blue-clicky school. Instructions in the FAQ.
-Joe Offer

Subject: RE: BS: Halloween Songs
From: Gloredhel
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 08:36 PM

As a Roman Catholic, I object to the statement that All-Souls being celebrated close to Halloween is a coincidence. First, the word Halloween is All-Hallow's Eve, or the eve of All Saints Day, Nov. 1st. Second, for All Saints and All Souls Days to be placed together makes sense. These two being placed close to the Celtic celebration of the dead at Samhain was a deliberate part on the move of the Catholic Church to replace the pagan celebrations with their own rituals.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Sep 01 - 09:11 PM

I don't know if I'd say the establishment of the feasts of All Saints and All Souls (and Christmas, for that matter) were deliberate moves to replace pagan celebrations. These celebrations came from local churches, and quite obviously grew from pagan feasts that were part of local tradition. The celebrations grew in popularity as centuries went on, and were eventually accepted by the church as official. By the time they became "official," the pagan roots of the feasts had long been forgotten. It seems to have been a process of natural growth (folk process???), not establishing something to replace an older tradition.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: John P
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 01:57 AM

Oh Boy, we get to play a Halloween concert this year with our friends William Pint and Felicia Dale. We'll probably do--

Death and the Lady,
The Outlandish Knight,
Hangman,
Matthew Green (a version of Matty Groves),
The May Song,
Nottamun Town,
The Devil Up in Heaven Beating His Wife,
Thrice Tosse These Oaken Ashes,
The Apes of Hell,
Two Ravens,
Devil in the Kitchen,
Farmer's Curst Wife,
He Moved Through the Fair,
Molly Bahn [=Molly Vaughan? Polly Von?--Mudelf].

There's lots of good stuff for this holiday. I think William and Felicia used to do--

Mr. Fox,
Skeleton Dance, and
The Tryphina's Extra Hand.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Greyeyes
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 03:48 AM

"Greyeyes needs to go back to blue-clicky school. Instructions in the FAQ"

Harsh but fair, Joe. It had been a long day, the caretaker was trying to lock up and throw me out, and the server was on the blink. More haste less speed I think. Thanks for fixing the link.

Gloredhel, the statement that the placing of All Souls Day was a coincidence was my reading of the story related in Brewer's Phrase and Fable, (see link above).

If you follow This link The Columbia Encyclopedia states that the celebrations and customs associated with All Souls Day were a completely separate development from Halloween.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Cllr
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 05:10 AM

What a great thread.

I have to agree, gloredhel. Sorry, Joe, but I think you're wrong on this one.

"Like Christmas and Easter, the festival of Hallowe'en originated in Pagan celebration. Even though its name derives from the Christian festival of All Hallows or All Saints Day... in the eighth century All Hallows' Day was moved to November the first to counteract Pagan celebrations held on that date."

For example, the timing of Christmas was due to a pagan festival previously a bonfire to encourage the Sun to return in the depths of winter, and because it's difficult to make the serfs give up their holidays (Holy days) they just wacked in a different meaning while allowing the serfs their time off while weaning them away to the new religion.

As far as Halloween celebration (I'm drawing a distinction between recent customs over the last two hundred years and its origins many centuries ago) goes, the Irish have always been big on it and the American version of celebrating the modern Halloween comes from these Irish origins, while in England we are following on (commercially at least) from you merkins. Don't forget, one of the reasons we don't celebrate individual days as much as the Americans is that we have on average four to five weeks' holiday a year and you lot seem to get far less.

Sadie Damascus was asking about Reynardine usually boxing day in the UK is a day for the big hunt more Christmas than Halloween. Robb Johnson has written one (on his Album "Maggie Thatcher- My part in her downfall" irregular records) called Boxing Day with the chorus:

"And it feels like winter,
spit to eat and hell to pay.
And it feels like Reynardine on Boxing Day"

John P say Hello to William and Felicia for me, I booked them last year as my last guests at the folk club I was running (Uxbridge) before I left. It was on my birthday and it was a fantastic night.

And finally Halloween songs

The whole Album of the king of elfland's daughter (with Christopher Lee and Derek Brimestone on it)

Cllr

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Greyeyes
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 07:19 AM

I don't dispute that Allhallows Day was placed on 1st Nov deliberately to counteract pagan celebrations, it is the placing of All Souls day on 2nd Nov that the references above suggest were coincidental.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Cllr
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:19 AM

Grey eyes I was disagreeing with Joe Offer

He said

"I don't know if I'd say the establishment of the feasts of All Saints and All Souls (and Christmas, for that matter) were deliberate moves to replace pagan celebrations"

I replied

... in the eighth century All Hallows' day was moved to November the first to counteract Pagan celebrations held on that date..."

As such it is fairly obvious, to me at least, that there is deliberate positioning of the festival dates.

And as this was the main thrust of Gloredhel's post I agree with her as well.

Cllr

Ilove halloween parties for whatever the reason!

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Greyeyes
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:29 AM

Gloredhel said

"As a Roman Catholic, I object to the statement that All-Souls being celebrated close to Halloween is a coincidence."

Anyway we all seem to be in broad agreement. And yes, what a great thread.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 12:15 PM

Ooh, Kendall! Thanks for reminding me! "Mistletoe Bough" is probably one of the most sad/scary beautifully morbid songs I know. Been meaning to learn it for years (from Joan's LP) but not sure if I'll ever have occasion to sing it in public, so others seem to take priority.

Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Sep 01 - 08:14 PM

Can anybody supply leads to historical documents that prove the Christian feasts were established to counteract pagan celebrations held on the same dates? The Christian feasts have many elements related to their pagan predecessors - this would seem to indicate an evolution from the pagan celebrations, rather than something legislated to supplant the pagan feasts. I'll stick to my "folk process" theory until somebody comes up with solid evidence to the contrary. I've studied a lot of church history - most everything in churches happens by evolution, and then is eventually made official by some sort of decree.
It would seem that people kept their traditions after they converted to Christianity, more-or-less putting a Christian "spin" on things they had done for centuries. I realize that it was once common practice for Christians to deny that their faith had in any way developed from earlier paganism, but more recent students of church history see a much closer relationship between Christian traditions and earlier pagan traditions. Christian theologians also have developed a much more favorable view of ancient paganism, and the earlier religions are no longer rejected as "evil." Perhaps those who call themselves pagans might consider doing the same favor to Christianity - to look to see what we all have in common, and to see where there is good in all systems of belief.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From:
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 12:44 AM

I'll be posting something under Watchfires...but anyway, on November 1 at 9 p.m. (your time) people around the world will be lighting watchfires...from a candle to a bonfire, to guide lost souls home. There is a lot of history and folklore associated with this. Vietnam veterans especially have been doing this over the last few years. Please join us and let us light up the world. mg

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 01:36 AM

Hi Joe & All,

Among the historians of the modern Pagan movement as well as esteemed individuals such as Joseph Campbell is is generally considered that the Christian Church did not create holidays or celebrations to directly counteract the Pagan celebrations. Insead, what usually happened was that the King, Prince or Chieftain of a certain place converted to Christianity and made a decree that everyone in his land had to convert. The cycle of celebrations would have their "meaning" changed but much of the ritual stayed the same.

This was likely to be done to sort of wean the people away from the old religion. In place where that didn't work, the Christian Church killed people.

Did the Church have malicious intent in taking over the ancient rituals? In many ways probably not, but the be honest, when you are a leader of the "one true religion" it is easy to treat other faiths as wrong, misguided or evil.

Another bit of evidence for how the Christians approached the conversion of Pagans is that so many of the Catholic Saints are actually based on Pagan Deities. There was a whole industry in the middle ages in developing the biographies of invented saints. Haigiography is the name for that.

pax yall

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: John P
Date: 29 Sep 01 - 05:42 PM

It seems like folks just sort of naturally have a harvest feast, a mid-winter celebration, a Spring-time celebration, etc., no matter what religion they are, or even if they don't have any religion. Of course, relgions try to make them into holy days . . .

JP

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Kaleea
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 12:13 AM

My fav is the original--"Night on Bald Mountain"--you may recall this from Disney's "Fantasia", however, what I play on Hallowe'en to scare the trick or treaters is Gregorian Chant on low speed--backwards!

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 01:26 PM

Wow! I made it through this looooooooooooooooong thread and I still have a song to offer. Bringing Mary Home! I can't believe that I have something to offer that wasn't mentioned before.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 01:47 PM

California Ghoul, We used to sing the "When I Die" song,

"...the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out, the ants play pinochle on your snout ..."

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: HelenJ
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 03:33 PM

"Old Pendle" and " Matthew Hopkins".

HelenJ.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Folky1
Date: 30 Sep 01 - 11:16 PM

I can't believe no one has mentioned Michael Smith's song "Vampire". Claudia Schmidt recorded a bang-up version of it early in her career. It's the most haunting song I know for this theme.

Buddy Mondlock has a fun song called "Skeleton" about a skeleton in his closet. "The Unquiet Grave" is good too.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Bert
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 02:16 AM

"Ain't It Grand to be Bloomin' Well Dead." is one. I usually resort to "Tom Pierce" [=Widecombe Fair?] or my own "Plastic Flower Seeds".

Joe, Years ago the magazine "The Essex Countryside" published a very good article on the pagan stone at Beauchamp (pronounced Beecham) Roding. It told the legend of how the stone, which the pagans used to worship, was brought down to the village to be incorporated into the Christian church which was then being built. This was done so that the pagans would have to come to the church when they wanted to worship their stone. This was a common practice in those times and several other churches were mentioned which had 'pagan stones' built into their walls (Stratford is the only other one that I can remember).

Legend has it that during the night, the devil came down (or would that be UP) and took the stone back to its rightful home on the top of a nearby hill.

The church builders brought it back down again the next day, but it was returned to its hilltop again that night. After trying several times, the church builders finally gave up the battle and built their church up on the hill alongside the stone.

When you next go to England, be sure to include Beauchamp Roding on your tour and see the pagan stone in the churchyard.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 10:31 PM

Here's an old round we liked:

Have you seen the ghost of John?
Long round bones with no skin on...
OO-OO-OO-OO-OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
Wouldn't it be chilly with no skin on?

And of course, we couldn't get through Mischief Night without, "There was an old woman all skin and bones...."

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Peg
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:11 PM

Thanks for mentioning "Vampire" as I was about to do the same.

One of the best modern scholars on the subject of the replacement of old pagan feast days and festivals with church-based holidays is Ronald Hutton; may I recommend hsi books The Rise and Fall of Merrie England and Stations of the Sun.

It is amusing to me that anyone doubts this...

Winter Solstice/Yule falls on December 20-22/Christmas is December 25th. A great many secular symbols prevail here (candles and lights--solstice is the rebirth of the light--or the sun or "the son"; frankincense had been sacred to solar gods well before the age of Christianity; trees, holly, mistletoe...)

Ostara/Eostre (feast of Teutonic spring fertility goddess) falls near full moon after spring equinox, as does EASTER (Eostre/easter???) and how about all those secular symbols we associate with easter which seem rather, ahem, fertile in their meaning (eggs, bunnies, flowers)?

Samhain (Gaelic for Summer's End)/Hallowe'en/All Saint's Day/All Soul's Day, on October 31 thru November 2: all are feasts/celebrations of the dead.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: GUEST,Johnny Dabone
Date: 01 Oct 01 - 11:25 PM

How the heck can we get this far in the thread without somebody mentioning the mighty Black Sabbath? C'mon now! The song "Black Sabbath" itself works wonderfully on any Halloween mix tape. You could throw in just about anything by the Sabbs, including powerhouse numbers like "Children Of The Grave" and "NIB".

If you don't have any Sabbath on a Halloween tape, you will quite likely and justly become the object of scorn by your more discriminating party-goers. C'mon now!!

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: GUEST,Adrienne
Date: 02 Oct 01 - 12:14 AM

I don't think anyone has mentioned "Riders on the Storm" by the Doors. That always scared me to death if it came on the radio when I was home alone. Also, around 1970 there was a song called "Timothy" about a miner, trapped in a cave, resorting to cannibalism.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Genie
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 03:02 AM

How about "Bad Moon Rising"?

Come to think of it, "Lookin' Out My Back Door" is pretty freaky, too!

Genie

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Peg
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 09:29 AM

How about "I Want Candy" by Bow Wow Wow?

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 12:21 PM

Ghost Riders in the Sky also comes to mind.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: VoxFox
Date: 03 Oct 01 - 01:44 PM

Here's a few more from the rock side:

The Dead Next Door - Billy Idol
Don't Fear The Reaper - Blue Oyster Cult and
Frankenstein - Edgar Winter Group.

This is great and I'm picking up lots of ideas for future use. Keep 'em coming. VF

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: GUEST,JD
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 01:41 PM

Night Prowler by AC/DC, and Midnight Rambler by the Stones. And ANYTHING by Black Sabbath.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: iamjohnne
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 01:53 PM

I remember an old country-flavored tune, can't recall the artist though:

Just moved in my new house today.
Nothing was gonna drive me away.
Then bells started ringing and chains rattled out.
I knew I'd moved in a haunted house.

And of course, my memory fails me. I can't remember the rest of the song. I guess I am just gonna have to admit that I am old.

Johnne

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Dani
Date: 04 Oct 01 - 10:26 PM

Walking Eagle, what's "Bringing Mary Home"?

Dani

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Peg
Date: 05 Oct 01 - 01:14 AM

"Are You Happy Now?" mentions Hallowe'en (a couple breaks up that day) I forget who wrote it.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Firecat
Date: 06 Oct 01 - 12:11 PM

If you're wanting spooky pop songs, I recommend Backstreet Boys "Backstreet's Back" for it's "Thriller-esque" video. Another good one is by a five piece British pop group called allSTARS. It's called "Things That Go Bump In The Night" and it featured in their TV series STARStreet.

"Beware of the full moon
Stick to the path
Out come the creatures
With a spine-chilling laugh"

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: DMcG
Date: 07 Oct 01 - 06:22 AM

This is the first timeI've read this thread, so this thread so I've a long of catching up to do ....

Greyeyes said "Guy Fawkes night is not a big event in the calendar of English Catholics." I can see why, but in my English Catholic family it always was a big event. There are certainly places like Lewes where the anti-catholic aspects can be a major feature, but in the areas I came from the event was de-politicised and simply a great excuse for a neighbourly party.

Is the date of All Souls (2nd Nov) a co-incidence or an attempt to replace pagen festival (like All-Saints on 1st)? I always understood that All Saints was a displacement of the pagan festival, but that All Souls was placed to be next to All Saints. The theological link is that All Saints celebrates all those who have 'officially made it' but have not been allocated a special Saint's day, whereas "All Souls" celebrates those who have not been recognised officially even though those who knew them recognise their saintly qualities, together with those who, while not perhaps particular saintly were not clearly destined for damnation. Therefore together the two days celebrate all those who have triumphed over evil.

Finally some songs - The souling classics at the start of this thread, such as "A soul, a soul, a soul-cake" from lots of singers; "Guy, Guy, Guy" which I've only heard from Martyn Windham-Read (how can anyone have three parts to a name where you are unsure how to spell any of them?) and "Welcome Cold November".

More generally, how about "Digging Graves is my Delight" [=Dust to Dust]?

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Julia
Date: 07 Oct 01 - 08:38 PM

How about "The Unquiet Grave", "Wife of Usher's Well", "Alabama John Cherokee" "Alison Gross" and "On Ilkla Moor Baht Hat"

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Julia
Date: 07 Oct 01 - 08:49 PM

Oh yes and "Tom of Bedlam" and "Lowlands"...

Subject: Lyr Add: THE PHANTOM SHIP (Julia Lane)
From: Julia
Date: 07 Oct 01 - 09:14 PM

DUH! I actually wrote a supernatural song and recorded it on my album "Song of the Sea" My son came home with the story after visiting with some old fishermen near our home (in Maine)- this ship supposedly sails John's Bay on the full of the moon.
Here it is for anyone interested

THE PHANTOM SHIP © 1995 JULIA LANE BMI

When you went down to the shore last night what did you see?
Did you see a lofty ship sailing fast and free?
Sail away, sail away, sailing fast and free
Sail away, sail away, across the moonlit sea

When I went down to the shore last night a ship I saw
And the moon was like a shining sail there in the rigging tall
Shine away, shine away, there in the rigging tall
Shine away, shine away, a light to guide them all

And there upon that moonlit ship did you see a man
Who stood so tall upon the deck with sailors at command
Standing tall, standing tall, with sailors at command
Standing tall, standing tall so strong of voice and hand

Alas I saw no captain brave standing tall and true
Indeed I saw not a soul on board, neither captain or crew
Not a soul, not a soul did man the ship as she flew
Not a soul, not a soul, and the wind in the rigging blew

When you went down to the shore last night what did you see?
Did you see a lofty ship sailing fast and free?
Sail away, sail away, sailing fast and free
Sail away, sail away, across the moonlit sea

Reminds me of an old poem called "The Dash" about a similar ship that shows up when a past crew member dies to take them away. Oughta make a song out of that one too

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Genie
Date: 08 Oct 01 - 01:56 PM

This campfire thread has some scary, ghostly songs and stories, too.

Click here

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: GUEST,JD
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:27 AM

Put a fork in this thread. It's done.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:34 PM

I wrote a parody of "The Old Barbed Wire"
"If You Want to Find the Warlock"
It took me about 30 minutes at the Folk Club. This included a lot of sing-along chorus songs as well so it is dead easy to learn. I will post as soon as I get a moment.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: Mr Red
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 06:32 PM

lyrics to a Halloween song, I hope the blickie works - IF YOU WANT TO FIND THE WARLOCK
history to the song - John Duncan (JD) sidled up to me one club night at the Somers FC and showed me a song - a back of the envelope, half finished, but thouroughly meritorious jobbie. One which I could quite easily finish off for him, couldn't I? Hmmmm. Well, of course it can be done but on any given night the probability is low. I begged to be excused. However, at this juncture it dawned on me that I had no repertoire to do justice to the witching eve. So in that context I did in fact move into high gear and (as if by magic) those words came. (Casting a spell?) I sang it myself one hour later. Sorry John.

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: BluesMojo
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:24 AM

I've seen I Put A Spell On You posted several times as a CCR/John Fogerty Song, but I believe Screamin' Jay Hawkins was the one that wrote and did the definitive version of that song. I could be wrong though, it wouldn't be an earth-shattering occurrence :)

Subject: RE: Halloween Songs
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:29 AM

http://www.electricscotland.com/burns/halloween.html