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Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'

Robby 29 Sep 00 - 09:46 AM
Jock Morris 29 Sep 00 - 09:56 AM
Mrrzy 29 Sep 00 - 11:47 AM
Uncle_DaveO 29 Sep 00 - 12:39 PM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 29 Sep 00 - 01:27 PM
Malcolm Douglas 29 Sep 00 - 02:25 PM
Robby 29 Sep 00 - 02:45 PM
Sorcha 29 Sep 00 - 06:41 PM
Malcolm Douglas 29 Sep 00 - 11:10 PM
Sorcha 29 Sep 00 - 11:21 PM
Ferrara 30 Sep 00 - 03:56 PM
Roger in Sheffield 01 Oct 00 - 12:05 PM
GUEST,Hooky521 23 Aug 04 - 08:09 AM
GUEST,Sheilin 19 Aug 08 - 12:49 PM
Tootler 19 Aug 08 - 04:42 PM
greg stephens 19 Aug 08 - 05:57 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Aug 08 - 05:58 PM
Bee 19 Aug 08 - 06:05 PM
Odair nan Ròn 20 Aug 08 - 07:16 AM
Odair nan Ròn 20 Aug 08 - 07:28 AM
greg stephens 20 Aug 08 - 08:09 AM
Wolfgang 20 Aug 08 - 08:32 AM
Odair nan Ròn 20 Aug 08 - 08:44 AM
Tootler 20 Aug 08 - 03:39 PM
Odair nan Ròn 21 Aug 08 - 05:13 AM
GUEST,coup107 21 Jan 09 - 07:18 AM
GUEST,Mr Red 21 Jan 09 - 07:59 AM
GUEST,Rory 31 Jul 10 - 11:46 AM
McGrath of Harlow 31 Jul 10 - 07:50 PM
GUEST,Allan Con 01 Aug 10 - 01:34 PM
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Subject: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Robby
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:46 AM

Not knowing nearly enought about the differences between Irish and Scots Gaelic, nor the dialects within them, let me ask if am correct in assuming that sheiling and sheeling are variant spellings of sheilin and all refer to a cottage, as indicated in the thread pertaining to a Glossary of Scottish Words?
Thanks.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Jock Morris
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:56 AM

I've seen 'sheiling' on maps where it's marking old cottage ruins, so I reckon you're correct.

Scott


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Mrrzy
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:47 AM

As in "past the sheelin through the town, all for Marie's Wedding" - I always wondered what they were passing! Thanks again, Mudcat!


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:39 PM

I have understood that to be pronounced "shayling", for whatever that's worth.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 01:27 PM

Ohhhhhhhh- I always thought the "sheiling" or whatever was like a hat they were passing thru the town, taking up a collection for Mairi in her new life. Now I get it!


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:25 PM

Sheal:  n. A hut or cottage for temporary use by shepherds, fishermen, sportsmen etc.; a night-shed for sheltering sheep; a shelter; a summer dwelling.  v. to shelter; to put sheep under cover.
Shealin:  A hut, "bothie", for temporary use of shepherds, etc., during summer.
Sheelin:  A hut; a cottage; a temporary summer residence.
Sheil, Sheild:  A hut for shepherds, etc.
Sheilin:  A temporary residence for shepherds, etc.
Shiel, Shield:  n. a hut, cottage; a shepherd's summer shelter.  v. to enclose or shelter in a "shiel".
Shieling:  A hut, cottage.

-from Chambers' Scots Dictionary.  The word (however you choose to spell it!) doesn't derive from Gaelic (though bothy does, incidentally).  According to Chambers' 20th Century Dictionary, it probably descends from a lost Old English equivalent of the Old Norse skali, a hut.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Robby
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:45 PM

Malcolm,
I see the weight of the evidence is against me and I stand corrected as to my understanding of the derivation of the word(s) however spelled. Thanks for your assistance. I had no idea that slight differences in the spelling of the word would have such an effect on the type of cottage the wedding guests were passing.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:41 PM

Could this be where the word "shire" as in county came from? I have seen "sheiling" used in the sense of a group of cottages.....in novels, of course. And from "shire" comes "sherriff"...........


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:10 PM

Those variant spellings all mean the same thing; I think that the compiler of the dictionary just got bored with repeating himself and tried to put it slightly differently each time!  Shire isn't related; it probably derives from O.E. scir: "office, authority"; that is, an administrative unit.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Sorcha
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:21 PM

Thank you, Malcolm.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Ferrara
Date: 30 Sep 00 - 03:56 PM

DaveO, Have heard it pronounced "SHEEL-inn" by both Ed Miller and Jean Redpath.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Oct 00 - 12:05 PM

A couple of years ago I came across 'shielings' on a map, not sure of the exact spelling. This was while on holiday in Scotland near Loch Tay. At several different remote locations on the map little clusters of squares alongside streams/burns were labelled shielings. I think my friend found the same explanation as Malcolm in some literature where we were staying - temporary shelter for shephards. One day we walked up Ben Lawers from Glen Lyon and came across The real thing in a glen along the way. Groups of small stone buildings close together, just walls about 1-2 metres high enclosing a rectangular floor space of about three by two metres with a doorway gap in one of the longer sides
Roger


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: GUEST,Hooky521
Date: 23 Aug 04 - 08:09 AM

Wow, after four years I finally came across the word in a book.
The Red-Haired Girl From The Bog by Patricia Monaghan

Page 175
"Every May 1, the herds were booleyed to lush mountain pastures, to remain there until November 1, when they were driven home. Girls tended the cows through the sweet summer days, living in rough huts called shielings, milking each morning, making butter and cheese, packing the produce into churne to bury in the bogs for safe keeping."


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: GUEST,Sheilin
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 12:49 PM

My name is Sheilin very interesting to see how the name comes about.. My parents just said it was one to many Martini's and "so it was" I see the is more to it ..

Sheilin: A temporary residence for shepherds, etc.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Tootler
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 04:42 PM

the "Shield" variant can also be found in Northern England. There is "Daddry Shield" in Weardale and "Shieldfield" in Newcastle.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 05:57 PM

Not to mention North Shields and South Shields.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 05:58 PM

Found in the OED under Shieling, but many spellings given. Two meanings in print since the 16th c.; possibly 13th c. equivalent as discussed above (shield, scalinga).
1. A piece of pasture to which cattle may be driven for grazing. Several quotations, 1568 and ff.
2. A hut of rough construction erected on or near such a piece of pasture. Several quotations, 1585 and ff.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Bee
Date: 19 Aug 08 - 06:05 PM

A tiny thatched stone replica of a shepherd's hut along the Cabot Trail in Cape Breton has been designated 'The Lone Shieling' - built in the 1950s. here's a pic:

http://www.pbase.com/davidclerk/image/92909468


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Odair nan Ròn
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 07:16 AM

A Chàirdean chòir,

the Gaelic for a shieling is 'àirigh', as in the song "Chuir mi 'n oidhche 'raoir 'san àirigh" (I spent last night in the shieling) and in some places (e.g. in Barra) it is 'buaile', as in Buaile nam Bodach, anglicised "Balnabodach", = Shieling of the Old Men.

For German, Swiss, South Tyrolean and Austrian Mudcatters:
A shieling is the Scottish / Northern English / Irish / Manx equivalent of an Alpe or Alm, but it can also mean "Alp/Almhuette".

Many Gaelic songs about shielings are about courting and sexual antics according to the old Bavarian saying "Auf da Alm, do gibt's koa Suend" = there is no such thing as sin on a shieling.

The Norsemen who settled Iceland and the Faroes were part-Gaelicised and hailed mostly from Man and the Hebrides, and borrowed 'àirigh' into their dialects of Old Norse, and thus into Faroese and Icelandic, where it is rendered "ærgi".

Dùrachdan - Greetings,

Odair nan Ròn


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Odair nan Ròn
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 07:28 AM

P.S.: Sorry folks - I forgot:

A typical placename with 'àirigh'= shieling is Àirigh nan Gobhar, anglicé 'Arinagour', in the Isle of Coll by Tiree and Mull, Argyll, Scotland.

Oh, I better stop here, or else I'm getting "homesick", having recently left Scotland (my home from home) for Germany (my original home) owing to not having found employment in Scotland...yet.

I am a librarian by trade (hi, all yez librarians out there !) and a Gaelic scholar by academic background.

Tùdalù an dràsda,

Odair nan Ròn


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 08:09 AM

Arkholme, in Lunesdale, NW England, uses the equivalent of the airigh Gaelic version. The meaning of the "summer pasture" should be noted, in a lot of placenames. A shieling/airigh/argun etc etc is not only the hut, it can be the land where the hut is.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 08:32 AM

Are "shelter, shield" related?

Odair,

seeing this were your first posts, your contribution is most welcome.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Odair nan Ròn
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 08:44 AM

Tha mi duilich - I am sorry,

it should be "thug mi 'n oidhche raoir san àirigh" and not "chuir...":

Thug mi 'n oidhche raoir san àirigh,
Thug mi 'n oidhche raoir san àirigh,
Chaith mi 'n oidhche cridheil coibhneil,
Mar ri maighdeannan na h-àirigh.

"I spent last night in the shieling,
I spent last night in the shieling,
I spent a heart-felt, friendly night
together with the lasses o the shieling"

Any denizen of the Alps would feel pretty much at home with this - be one Austrian, Bavarian, Italian, Kimbric, French or Swiss...

...and no, there is no sin on a shieling or an Alm (Alp);-)

Tìors ma tha,

O.n.R.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Aug 08 - 03:39 PM

"Not to mention North Shields and South Shields."

DOH


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: Odair nan Ròn
Date: 21 Aug 08 - 05:13 AM

...aaaand aactually ;-) -

in this case, 'cridheil' (heartfelt, hearty) should be 'chridheil' and 'coibhneil' (affectionate, friendly) ought to be 'choibhneil', as it relates to 'oidhche' (night) which is feminine...

...if that sounds pedantic to some: well, either ye sing in Gaelic and do it properly, or ye don't - there have been too many wee Marjorie Kennedy-Frasers (aka Marjorie Keltic-Twilights) around already ;-). Would ye sing an English, French, German or whatever song in incorrect grammar ? No, I don't think so, not even if ye didn't really speak the lingo. Imagine singing "Le Chat Noire" [sic !] ! Mais non, sacrebleu !

Dùrachdan,

Bodach Sgeir Ròis


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: GUEST,coup107
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 07:18 AM

'sheiling' - I understand it from the Irish and is what we called a sheephouse when we were growing up (variations -sheepfold, sheephut)


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: GUEST,Mr Red
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 07:59 AM

I saw a re-creation of a Sheiling in Scotland. and it was like a cairn set into the bank, or an igloo set in a hollow in a bank. "One man tent" would be the best way to describe it, though in stone.
low entrance (probably covered with cloth). Shepherds shelter and shelter was about as far as it got.
We knew a shepherdess in the Malvern area and she did not turn up to the session many nights because at lambing time she was out all night watching the sheep - foxes would go for the newborns.

I assume she had a LandRover or tent to shelter in.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: GUEST,Rory
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 11:46 AM

Over hillways up and down
Myrtle green and bracken brown
Past the sheeling, through the town
All for sake of Marie


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Jul 10 - 07:50 PM

Are "shelter, shield" related?

I would imagine so. All the words have a common context of some kind of shelter.

As for North Shields and South Shields - "North and South Shields take their name from the word 'schele', meaning a temporary hut or shed. Shiels or shielings are usually found in the uplands where they were occupied by shepherds who could shield themselves from the wild weather." From here.

People forget that the modern Scottish border is relatively recent - the Kingdom of Northumbria was made up of the North-East of what is now England and the South-East of what is now Scotland.


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Subject: RE: Help: 'Sheiling' or 'sheeling' or 'sheilin'
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 01:34 PM

"People forget that the modern Scottish border is relatively recent - the Kingdom of Northumbria was made up of the North-East of what is now England and the South-East of what is now Scotland."

Only if you regard 1000 years as relatively recent! The border on the middle to eastern half of the country, the changing of Berwick aside, is basically as it has been since the 11thC. There were periods of Scottish or English occupation of one or the other but it was occupation never the less. Saying that your point is absolutely correct. There was a language continuum between the southern dialect of Scots and Northumbrian dialect of English because they were basically both newer forms of the old Northumbrian dialect spoken from the Humber up to the Firth of Forth.


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