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Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!

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Rick Fielding 29 Sep 00 - 12:21 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 12:30 PM
Wesley S 29 Sep 00 - 12:36 PM
Peg 29 Sep 00 - 12:41 PM
Sean Belt 29 Sep 00 - 12:45 PM
Midchuck 29 Sep 00 - 12:57 PM
Easy Rider 29 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM
Peg 29 Sep 00 - 01:37 PM
Midchuck 29 Sep 00 - 02:05 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 02:12 PM
kendall 29 Sep 00 - 03:21 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 03:56 PM
John Hardly 29 Sep 00 - 04:21 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 04:41 PM
John Hardly 29 Sep 00 - 04:50 PM
Rick Fielding 29 Sep 00 - 05:22 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 06:00 PM
Jon Freeman 29 Sep 00 - 06:19 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 29 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 06:30 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 06:35 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 06:51 PM
Rick Fielding 29 Sep 00 - 06:53 PM
Biskit@Home 29 Sep 00 - 06:56 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 07:08 PM
kendall 29 Sep 00 - 07:09 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 07:19 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 07:23 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 07:25 PM
Lanfranc 29 Sep 00 - 07:26 PM
DougR 29 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM
Rick Fielding 29 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM
Ebbie 29 Sep 00 - 08:13 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 08:16 PM
Rick Fielding 29 Sep 00 - 08:19 PM
Dizzie 29 Sep 00 - 08:45 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 08:53 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 09:00 PM
MK 29 Sep 00 - 09:05 PM
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Rick Fielding 29 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 09:49 PM
catspaw49 29 Sep 00 - 09:54 PM
bbelle 29 Sep 00 - 10:03 PM
Amos 29 Sep 00 - 10:10 PM
kendall 29 Sep 00 - 10:25 PM
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Subject: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:21 PM

Nope, this ain't the score of a high school football game, or even the ages on a rural marriage license, but it's more amazing (to me) than either.

Mudcatter "Shug" (posts under "Dizzie" for some reason) lent me a video of the 1994 Fiddler's Convention at Union Grove. Wonderful music...Old time...Bluegrass...Gospel, etc. After watching for about twenty minutes I thought, "boy, almost everyone's playing Martin D-28s or D-18s". Then, just out of curiosity, I thought I'd rewind it and start from the beginning, counting guitar brands. Should I have been surprised that the final tally was:

Martin...58

Gibson...2.!

Taylor...1

Gallagher...1

unidentified (Martin copies?)...4

unidentified (others) 3 (or 4)

Not the same with banjos. Some Mastertones, some Vegas, many unidentifiable (by me)

I know very well the "Martin mystique" that goes with country music, but I was truly amazed at just HOW pervasive it is. From 6 year olds to 90 year olds, it appears to be the axe of choice. Peter T asked how folks were able to afford them (I suspect very few of the participants are even close to wealthy). All I can think of is that it's a case of "priority".

After pondering on this surprising ratio (you're right, I DO need to get a life!) it occured to me that perhaps the most amazing part was that I didn't identify ONE Yamaha.(the world's most popular guitar)

Rick


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:30 PM

The first reason I opened this was because I KNEW you had to have been the author. Holy Cow? You're the only one around who uses that. Have you ever noticed that after a bit, you can pretty much guess the author of a thread before you open it? Words, phrasing, caps....something.

Also, this may be the earliest thread creep ever.

But I did like your stats. I'm always watching that stuff too as you know....never kept a count though..........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:36 PM

Rick - I'm not suprised at all. It's part tradition, part habit. If you watch all of your heros play Martins then you will be tempted to get one too. One of the reasons I bought my D-18 was because Tom Paxton played a Martin. There are a lot of good guitars being made nowadays and most of them are very suitable for this style but it will be a long time before they make inroads into such a culture as bluegrass.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Peg
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:41 PM

so those Martin copies must have been Tachamines? (the early ones were made to look like Martins right down to the way the name was written, which from far away looked like B. F. Martin; now they have changed the look of the name on the top). I used to have one. I miss it!

peg


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Sean Belt
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:45 PM

It's a funny thing. My main guitar is a late '50s Gibson dreadnaught. I love it. Whenever I pull it out, whomever I'm playing with, I get lots of compliments on the sound and the look of it. But you're right, Rick. As much as they admire my Gibson, no one seems to want to own/play one.

- Sean


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 12:57 PM

Peg: Those are referred to on the flatpick list as "Lawsuit Taks," and are sought after. I don't know how much you miss yours money wise but check this out.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Easy Rider
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 01:12 PM

Now, if you were watching a Country (Pop) Music show, the ratio would probably be Gibson J200: 52, Martin: 2


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Peg
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 01:37 PM

thanks, Midchuck! I have written the seller to ask if the neck is narrow enough (mine had a nice narrow neck despite its fairly large body) for me as I have small hands. I cannot remember the model I had. I bought it new around 1984 for $325.00. Rosewood back, spruce front I think...a friend had a solid mahogany 12-string "lawsuit" model that was gorgeous; she sold hers, too...

I sold mine after a summer traveling in England left me broke (in grad school at the time, too)

I am gonna try to bid on this geetar...


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Midchuck
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:05 PM

Peg: I think the "standard" 1 11/16" at nut neck is pretty universal on these. That's exactly why I clued someone else in on this rather than keeping quiet in hopes of getting it myself - I have gotten used to a wide neck such as several of my present guitars have, and don't really like to play the standard width any more.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 02:12 PM

Ah yes......The great Taks....330 was the mahog/D-18 and the 360 was the rosewood/D-28. Lovely guitars. Beautiful woods, nice bookmatching, superb fit and finish.....just take a look inside one with a mirror and see if it isn't better than Martin..........Say what? You don't have one to look in? Ah, what a shame........You could look inside of this one I got right here. No, you can't have it.....I mean I paid a hundred bucks for it new and all...........(:<))

Spaw - BTW, her name is Marie......Absolutely sweet.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 03:21 PM

Taylor and Santa Cruz are making serious inroads into the Martin monopoly around here. Thats good in more than the obvious ways, but, it has forced Martin to go back to building quality guitars as they used to. I've owned them all, Gibson, Martin, Mossman,Yamaha, Guild and Ibaneze. I swapped the Ibaneze for a gun, the Guild for a Mossman, I gave the Gibson away and I sold the Martin. Do I like the Taylor? Hope to piss in your mess kit!! (thread creep)


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 03:56 PM

Yeah, Kendall....Taylor seems to be real popular on the road circuit right now. But you won't find many with the Bluegrass folks. Glad you like your Taylor, but I'd stay away from some of that off brand trash like, say, Apollonio or something.......real junk.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 04:21 PM

Rick,

Regarding your question about why no Yamahas. Do they actually make a drednought? I know the FG looks like a dred but it's 3/4" shallower and 3/4-1" wider at the lower bout. If you were to get a good sounding Yamaha (I did) it would still probably resemble an OM in sound more than a dred. It has no BOOM and to much sus for chuck. Lousy Bluegrass guitar. More comfortable to play though.

John


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 04:41 PM

Hi John........Rick's comment was about half tongue in cheek as we've had a lot of talks around here about the quality and sound and durability of Yamaha Guitars and Rick was even at a "Blind" test at Mandolin Brothers once wherr the Yamaha won hands down over rosewood Martins and top line stuff. Once the blindfolds were removed, the Yamaha dropped to the bottom. Evidently a vintage Martin sounds better if you LOOK at it!

Yamaha DOES make dreadnoughts and in both their more expensive and less expensive models. The reason you don't see them is more a question of "panache" than anything else. They're great guitars, but that guy with the 70 vintage Martin Deadsound-28 will never admit it.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 04:50 PM

Spaw,

Thanks for the reply. I do like my Yammy but it's one of those that's destined to have the permanent "slide set-up"--action too high and value too low for a neck reset. Too bad. I often wonder with those blind tests if "different" doesn't sway a vote more than "better"

John


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 05:22 PM

Yep, Paw is right. I watched several prominent players pick a brand new Yamaha (sort of) Dreadnought, over Martins, Guilds, Gurians etc. Ten to one they'd never get caught dead showing up on a gig with one of them though.

I looked at the video again (I AM a nurd after all) and I don't think the Martin copies are Takamartins. Probably hand built thingys. These folks (almost all amateur players) take their guitars seriously. Shit I wished I lived down South. Oh I found two more Gibsons. So the total is now Martin 58, Gibson 4. (all the Gibsons seem to be the J-45 style)

Rick


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:00 PM

Uh ... nevermind.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:19 PM

Seening Midchuck mention it, somebody suggested I might be interested in the Flatpickers list in Hearme about a week ago. Can anyone give me the details please.

Jon (who would love a Martin but is happy with his Fylde)


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM

Jon ... I'm on the Flatpick list ... if you have my personal email, email me and I will supply the link. If not, PM me.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:27 PM

"happy with his Fylde" - that's like me saying I'd be quite pleased to win the lottery tomorrow. (In which case a Fyldeis on my shopping list.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:30 PM

We ought to keep a tally on shows/specials and the like that we see and see what the breakdown is out of curiosity. A lot of it relates to particular styles/types of music to be sure. Like the tape Rick just watched, I saw a little homegrown PBS thing from Tennessee awhile back.....same thing, fiddlin and band contest. I didn't keep a count but I'm sure the Martin numbers would match. If you watch TNN much you find the "lineage artists" like Ricky Skaggs, Marty Stuart, etc., playing Martin or Martin looking improvements (Skaggs plays Bourgeois). But you find a fair number of Gibson's. The pop-country big names seem to be in a category I can only figure to be "pay to play" so I doubt its too meaningful. A lot of them use Gibson and I'm sure they get a "something" out of it. I notice a lot of new Taks too.

But every alternative/folk-like/unplugged type concert I've seen in the past few years features a lot of Taylors.

I think I'll start counting for the hell of it.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:35 PM

Since Dana Bourgeois sort of went bankrupt and is now making a comeback sort of, I figure Skaggs is keeping him in business. Too bad, eh? Small luthier making a 5-star instrument, by hand, with unbelievable workmanship ... can't stay in business 'cause he can't make 'em fast enough to sustain the business.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:51 PM

Yeah, well I think you have point, but its like any business, there is a thing as having too much success. I said a long time ago around here that Dana may be the most knowledgable luthier around when it comes to understanding the "voicings of wood." Its hard to grow a business, maintain standards, and actually improve and make money at the same time and though this might be some "Golden Age of Luthery" for consumers, its pretty tough and takes some business savvy, which makes me admire the Bob Taylors and Jean Larrivees all the more.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:53 PM

Video update. One of the formerly unidentified axes is probably a Collings......BUT....I found two more Martins!

Interesting that Larrivee hasn't cracked that market at all....but is so big in the singer-songwriter one. The thing that really surprised me was the almost total lack of low-end guitars. Obviously these "Fiddle Convention folks" have their priorities straight! Ha Ha.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Biskit@Home
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 06:56 PM

Well, I bid on it twice and I was outbid before you could blink an eye,also my highest bid wasn't up to the sellers minumum, so much for tryin' to cheer myself up wi'anew geetar.Moonjen, I haven't forgotten you or my promise, I've just been using a different computer an just now got my pm. soon as I'm through defraging my harddrive I'll send you those links okay?peace -Biskit-


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:08 PM

'spaw ... didja know that many of the other guitar makers are guying wood from Jean Larrivee, because he is considered THE expert on the different types used and where to get them. He spends a bit of time in thye jungles and bush getting wood.

Biskit ... keep trying. I know where there a Collings D2H for sale ... 1994, $2100 firm. Been played but in good condition. Interested? Let me know.

And Rick ... you are a Martin snob and full-o-shit!

(She says with a gleam in her eyes and a smile on her lips, all the while, lovingly stroking her Larrivee.)

*LOL*


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:09 PM

Look lets face it..the main thing that Martin has is history. Hell we STILL give Columbus credit for discovering America! Why? its not that we dont know any better..beats me. Anyway, the other thing is volume.. brought on my action so high you could shove a cat under it! One 32nd of an inch of plastic is hardly something to brag about. I've never seen a loud Martin that didn't have the action higher than a hawks nest. They are not fun to play, but by God they are loud! I must admit I have played a few very nice sounding Martins. But, I must also say most of the others are fit for planting pansies.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:19 PM

So then that'd be one against huh Kendall?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:23 PM

So, kendall ... you'd be thinking Rick is full-o-shit, too? *ROFLMAO*


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:25 PM

I'm heading out to the local picking parlour to beat the crap out of all the Martin players! Marquis of Queensbury Rules, of course.

moonjen


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Lanfranc
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:26 PM

I have two Martins, a 1968 D18 and a 2000 SPD15. I've owned the first for over thirty years, sold it to a friend twice when broke and bought it back again when solvent. It's like my wife in a way, I love it dearly, the years have mellowed it more than somewhat and I don't take it out much any more.

The SPD15 was a love at first pick indulgence for which I traded in a Simon and Patrick (pretty good, but FRAGILE finish) and a Washburn J200 copy (big, powerful but I prefer the sound of a Dreadnought).

In my time I've owned several guitars (I used to teach guitar and trade), and still have three Washburns and a 1978 Mugen, but I always come back to the Martins.

I don't play bluegrass, but I was (and am) heavily influenced by Tom Paxton - even if he doesn't play Martins on stage these days.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: DougR
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 07:42 PM

Now this, is an interesting thread.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:02 PM

Well, actually I AM probably a snob about a lot of things, not the least of which was my 1970 Cedar top Larrivee, with the tree of life inlay and solid ivory bridge and saddle. It was my work guitar for about 10 years until I wore the sucker out. Poor Nancy (my lady at the time) couldn't understand why I NEEDED THAT GUITAR! 'Cause I did have a Martin 00-18 (1946) but it was too small(!!??) and a Gibson J-50...but it was too round(!?). My other Guilds, Epiphones, Harmonys etc. were just too...tooo (you understand, don't you?) So she pulled out the heavy artillery. "Didn't you just say a year ago that your Mossman Grand Era was the BEST and LOUDEST guitar you've ever owned, and that you'd play it forever?" I slunk away in shame........then went down to the Folklore Centre, maxed out my credit card and proudly brought my wonderful new baby home (this was before I cared much about elephants...remember the ivory bridge?). When I got to our door, my guitar pride was replaced by stark fear! After all, even though I was totally irresponsible, I was at least TRYING to be a good partner, and here I'd spent money I didn't have on ANOTHER guitar! I weighed my options....tell her I FOUND it on the street,.....say that the Larrivee company had asked me to endorse it.........look pathetic, and claim I was simply a useless sicko, and she'd be better off with that dentist she had been going out with......or just do THE RIGHT THING...LIKE A MAN! Well I quickly forgot that last option and hid the damned thing in the basement for three days. When she'd go to work, I'd pull it out and play like mad for a few hours. As luck would have it my friend Tim Allen (not THAT Tim Allen!) bought my Mossman, and Nancy said "Go buy that damn 'Larraby" that you've been moaning about!" I went out and sat in the park for an hour, returned home, went to the basement and brought it up.

Honestly, I'm not that bad anymore...besides Heather's heard all these stories and is smart as a whip. I wouldn't have a chance!

Rick (compensating for his confused childhood)


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:13 PM

HA! Kendall, I remember I was at an open mike once listening to a foursome. I loved the rich, balanced sound of the guitars and I said into my brother's ear, At least a couple of those have to be Martins. Turned out all four were. Ah, heaven...

One of the guys said he's just saving up to get a D41, so you can see this was a while ago but I still love that Martin sound. I have a Martin- one of those years that isn't supposed to be all that good but it is! It's a '71 D35 S and I love it. AND Merle Travis played it in 1973- I have a photo to prove it. AND he liked it . So there.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:16 PM

And all of that from a man who bought a Mexican 12-string named Pedro that imploded in the middle of the night in a closet, while, I might add, he was hiding it from his girl of the moment. Which brings up a few other observations/questions.

1) You seem to have a passion for hiding guitars from the women in your life.

2) Considering the number you've owned (2519) and the number you've had stolen (846), why not just tell her the Mossman was stolen?

3) Was this the same girl that you met later and couldn't remember that you had once lived together....or even KNEW her?

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:19 PM

Ebbie, I'll bet your's is a "good'un". Those "bad years" for Martin are very real but the actual number of "bum guitars" was still relatively low. Many of the axes from that time have "found their sound" over the years. Martin DID have to do a lot of warranty work on necks during that time though.

Rick


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Dizzie
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:45 PM

Rick,
And here I was going through my video catching all the hammered dulcimer players,not even noticing some guys were plunking away on guitars. Just goes to show.

Shug.
BTW I am Shug - the wife is Dizzie (yes your right),and she only lets me near the computer when there is a Rick or Duckboots posting.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 08:53 PM

I'm still waiting for an answer here Rick.........

And Shug, its a lot harder to ID HD's.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:00 PM

I'm back to make sure you martinsnobs don't talk about me!! (actually the pickin' parlour was dark tonight)

Yeah, Rick, we're all waiting for an answer ... but I reckon it's better to hide in the closet than come out of the closet, unless there's something else you're not telling us?

Rick you have TERMINAL GAS!!! Surgery will not help; a wife with a frying pan in her hand chasing you around the house will not help; intervention by your friends will not help. The only remedy for you is to take two credit cards and trot on down to The 12th Fret in the morning. (I'm not a doctor but I like to play doctor.)

GAS = GUITAR ACQUISITION SYNDROM

moonjen


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MK
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:05 PM

(Bit of thread creep....but)

For anyone who's interested, here's the real story of Bourgeois Guitar's problems as told by Dana himself.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: MK
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:10 PM

Well Kendall I know of a particularly loud 1950 D-28, with low action and it isn't planting any daisies.*BG*


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:48 PM

Ahhh yes Mike, but how many nurds like us spend all our time fixing actions? Not many I suspect.

Well yes Spaw and Jen...it WAS actually. Although I remember the six significant (sort of) marriages I had BH (before Heather) with fondness (I'm still friends with those tolerant ladies), the main "relationship-guitar" is instantly recallable.

Dorothy (Mother)...Kay Archtop, cheap Stella 12 string. Goya G-17 (traded)

Angie...1944 D-18 (like an idiot..sold it)

Alison...1961 Epiphone Texan (sold to former friend for rent money)

Sandy...Guild F 212 (stolen) D-28 (new...ughh, sold it gladly)

Nancy...Larrivee custom (sold to prominent feminist singer)

Pam...1946 00-18, Japanese assembled Lowden (still the best sounding axe I've ever owned) sold to Mudcatter Willy-o.

Diane...Lowden (see above)

Heather....Lowden (see above), then guitar turmoil! maybe it'll be my 1949 0-18. Maybe my 1984 HB D-35, maybe NOT! (I'm sure keepin' Heather though!)

A thought just occurred to me. Most folks here are friends. If a newcomer sees this they really WILL think I'm nuts! For the record, guitars (and other instruments) are my ONLY vices!

Rick (and ciggys)


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:49 PM

Thanks for the link Michael. Several stories have floated around, but every version gets down to the same thing......business acumen and artistry are not always compatible and I say once again that folks like Bob Taylor and Jean Larrivee are to be respected for what they have achieved. I'm sure an element or two of luck may have come their way too, but its a tough thing to grow any business without outgrowing yourself.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 09:54 PM

Well Rick, its good for newbies to get off on the right foot and get the proper impression of people so I think this will be useful to them. I mean, like I have GAS, but its the more common kind (really its kind of uncommon tonite....musta' been the chili).

Yes, I think any new members can get a good look at the Rick Fielding we know here at the 'Cat.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:03 PM

Rick, my dear friend ... you know, of course, that I will never think of you in the same way!

Ya know ... I've had my Gibson for 35 years. It's outlasted ALL the men. I've known a few lovers I would like to have sold to the Asian market, but never gave a thought to selling my Gibson. (Well, yes, I did have a thought, recently, but, thank g-d for friends, eh?)

'spaw, my other dear friend ... your flatulence, not your reputation, precedes you ...

moonjen


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Amos
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:10 PM

Like Rick, I have a pre-war 00-18, which I got from a crude college kid fifteen years ago. It was my first Martin, and I loved it and still play it, but the board was a tad narrow for my taste, and it was not a Dreadnought -- it had a lovely voice but suited more for a damsel in a parlor. Bit lightweight.

Two years ago, I finally fulfilled a dream I have had for thirty years or more and acquired a Martin D28, circa 1976, in rich and full voice, with a lovely action -- not stiff, but not invisible, just right.

It has a more beautiful tone, in my opinion, than any Gibson I have played, although I have never owned one. I always found their actions too stiff.

I guess we're all entitled to our own bad taste, huh?

A.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: kendall
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:25 PM

Dont put words in my mouth moonjen, I would never say Rick is full of shit..I wouldnt say that to anyone. What I said was strictly MY opinion which comes from my own experience.


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:36 PM

If I could keep only one I think it would have to be the old 1949 018 though the little kallamazoo would be the hardest to leave behind.. Or maybe the deoloian.. Thank god we dont have to play one guitar choice. THat might make a good thread though.. All the best..Guy


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: bbelle
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 10:37 PM

Amos ... ABSOLUTELY!

I contend ... it's one's personal preference and ear that draws them to a certain instrument. It's fine if there's investment value to an instrument, and some are only interested in that aspect. Then there are those of us who develop a personal relationship with our guitar(s) and we "hear" a particular sound that maybe only "we" hear and we make them "sing."

Until recently I had never played anything BUT a Gibson. I just thought every Gibson had the same sound and playability as mine. They don't. And this is with every single make of guitar.

Also, you gotta understand that Rick knows well that I am giving him grief about the Martin thing, because I both adore and respect him. I used four people as "guides" when I was nearing the end of my search for a new guitar ... Rick, catspaw, Big Mick, Jed Marum. But it was ultimately my "ear" that made the decision. And the decision was between a Martin D16GT and a Larrivee D-05. I chose the Larrivee.

I would NEVER put someone's geetar in the hole, I don't care if it was a $25 Harmony. It's attacking a personal relationship, as far as I'm concerned. So, whether it Rick's Martins and Gibson, my Gibson and Larrivee, kendall's Taylor, your Martin ... it's what makes the world go 'round, doesn't it.

Now that I've waxed philosophical ...

Let's talk about Rick's TERMINAL GAS ...

moonjen


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Subject: RE: Martin 58. Gibson 2. Holy Cow!
From: John Hardly
Date: 29 Sep 00 - 11:57 PM

Oh Finally! A guitar thread! I think I'll re-read it a few times--I almost smell cedar,mahogany,spruce,rosewood...ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


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