Anybody watch the debate?

Subject: Anybody watch the debate?
From: richlmo
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:04 PM

I'm borrowing the idea from the Duke Basketball Report homepage, which borrowed from the Muppets, but Gore was Sam the bald eagle and Bush was Fozzie Bear! I watched the whole thing and now I need a BC

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:07 PM

yep...they both made campaign speeches thinly disguised and 'answers' to questions....I don't think this format told me much I didn't know....maybe the final one.."Town Hall" format

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:31 PM

I hate to agree with you all the time Bill............

Spaw

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Troll
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:47 PM

Nope. It was my turn to wax the cat.

troll

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:48 PM

*grin*...it just shows what a discerning gentleman you are 'spaw

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Troll
Date: 03 Oct 00 - 11:51 PM

Besides, I killed my TV two years ago. I put a ceramic statue of Elvis where it used to sit and I just gaze at it when I need entertainment or inspiration.

troll

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: paddymac
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:16 AM

I truly accidently saw about the last 15 minutes when I walked into my favorite Italian restaurant. The owner is a Sicilian immigrant political junkie & a Democrat, and the chef is a southern black Republican. You can imagine the chat. My take on the last bit was that Gore came across too slick and sounded like a Beltway in-sider. Bush struck me as connecting better with the mythical "common man". This race is so tight, however, that it's not the "common man" but the "common woman" who will seemingly determine the outcome. Both of my restaurant friends actually criticized Gore for talking too much and not giving Bush a chance to say anything. Interesting.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: BigDaddy
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:28 AM

No.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:32 AM

I listened to the last half on the radio. I hate the both of them, but I think Gore came off a little better than Bush. Gore seemed confident, and was able to turn pretty much anything Bush said back against him, politely. But Bush sounded shaky and insecure, stuttering and whining, all with that stupid fake accent of his.

But of course all the bumpkins and hayseeds will see that and say, 'Garsh, Bessy, he's just like us! Ahm votin' BUSH!'

I hope that cretin rots in Hell. :)

---Lepus Rex

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: khandu
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:50 AM

Yes, I did. Gore was more aggressive than I expected and Bush seemed to be lacking in confidence. Overall I found it rather boring and not very illucidating. Same song and dance, just different singers. Hmmmm; perhaps they need to invite Ross to the next debate to vinegar it up a bit. khandu

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:30 AM

Yes. But I don't think I heard the same one that Lepus Rex and khandu did.

DougR

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: thosp
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:54 AM

yes,but i kept wishing i was watching the yankee game ----but i stuck it out ---- it was nothing new -- i didn't trust either of them before and i didn't see or hear anything to change my mind ---- i don't know why,but i'll probably watch the rest of the (so called) debates ----

peace (Y) thosp

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 02:03 AM

Don't sugarcoat it Lepus....Tell us what you really think.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: BlueJay
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 02:05 AM

I had to watch the debate. I couldn't find any Gilligan's Island reruns.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Banjer
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:56 AM

Didn't watch the debate, don't need to...My mind is already made up...We don't need that 'son of a Bush' in the White House...I can't help but remember his daddy's words.."Watch my lips, no new taxes"...On the other hand, despite 'Wild Willies' escapades, our economical situation is not in bad shape at all...maybe Gore will take it to higher levels of success.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Dharmabum
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 07:26 AM

A battle of wits between two unarmed opponents.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Troll
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 07:35 AM

Yep. Tweedledum and Tweedledummer.

troll

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Dharmabum
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 08:00 AM

Yup,some real masterdebation goin on there.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 08:07 AM

Was that Bush fella performing badly, or do people in America really find that whiny style appealing? I've never seen more than a sound bite of him before, but all these TV pundits seem to keep on about what a good guy he comes across as, and how likeable he is, and that. Good grief!

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Dharmabum
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 08:16 AM

I find it rather sad that my choices are,vote for the guy that I like but I know won't be elected. Vote for the guy that I dislike the least. Or just stay home on election day.

Ron.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:21 AM

I watched all of it. I taped it. Look, this is NOT a popularity contest! There is one question to answer..which one is best qualified to be President? Thats All!! Bush kept saying he leads the second biggest state, horseshit! It's PEOPLE who vote, not cattle and cactus! If his convoluted logis was true, we would draft the Governor of Alaska! Man! what a dweeb!

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: LR Mole
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 09:34 AM

As Randy Newman says:"Big hat, no cattle/Big head, no brain/Big snake, no rattle/I'll forever remain/ Big hat, no cattle/Right from the start/Big boat, no paddle/ Big belly, no heart."

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:03 AM

I like the two unarmed opponents crack. Also the bumper sticker Read My Lips - NO NEW TEXANS!

Yes, I watched the whole thing. Neither seemed ever to answer the question being asked - but the moderator was very good at extracting the one-sentence sub-structure of the various answers and stating the difference for the watchers. HE looked good, both candidates looked like they were looking for opportunities to "play their tape" and say their canned speeches. However, Gore was better and trying to get his stock answer to fit the question actually being asked, while Bush just ignored the question. Also, Gore "rose above" the personal insults in which Bush was wallowing. Anyone catch Bush not realizing he was still on camera, rolling his eyes and then pretending he hadn't been? Hasn't he learned anything yet? And the question about What would you do if the unexpected came up - Gore gave an example where he thought outside the box, used his diplomatic connections, and got the Russians to solve something the Americans couldn't. Bush gave an example where he hugged someone and cried. Excuse me?

But I do agree that we need Nader and Bat Pukannon (the greatest spoonerism of all time, don't you agree? And it's MINE!) in the debates. I was talking to a French friend who thinks we should do the two-fer elections that the French use - in the first, you vote for whom you REALLY WANT. THEN there is another runoff election between the top 2. That way marginal parties can actually be represented...

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:42 AM

It was annoying. Both the local NPR stations, which I normally listen to, had the debate on. I had to listen to the classical station, which was playing this horrible 20th century "classical" sh*t. Bleh.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:58 AM

Yep, watched every tedious minute of it. They both acted totally sincere in their defence of their "sosh's'curity" positions even though the bean counters and economists (who loathe ALL politicians) know that neither will work.

Damn, I still want a "Texas death Match" with Jesse Ventura taking on James Carville and both houses.

Rick

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: GUEST,Rose
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:58 AM

I was able to ignore the whole thing until last night. Then all the hype and promotion over the "debate"...

But last night the reality of the situation hit me like a ton of bricks: the American people don't decide who will be our nation's leader. We make a choice - we choose which of two candidates we dislike the least. A very depressing moment.

I really dislike Bush's politics. Watching Gore's pretentious mannerisms made me very uncomfortable. Can you trust that a man who exudes dishonesty and aloofness will make good policy for the people?

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:59 AM

I agree that the point of the debates isn't -- or shouldn't be -- which one is more likable, a better debater, etc. These ought to be a chance for the candidates to carefully lay out their differences so the American voter can see their choice -- and it is a choice, even though not as much of one as some of us would hope. And the media ought to report it that way and stop underscoring all the qualities that point to popularity and start using the filter of "leadership" from which to ask their questions and make their analysis.

This, from the "Why I Am a Recovering Journalist" file.

And I haven't had my television hooked up since I moved to Colorado, so I watched neither the Olympics nor the debate. I'm trying to figure out whether I should feel bad because I don't think anything is missing from my recent experience because of that. I DO read the news from as many online sources as I can, despite the fact that I swore off news. (If I ever go back into journalism, I have this fear that they'll ask me about something that happened in 2000 and I'll just stare blankly and not have a clue. "Unh ... I read a lot of books...")

I like the suggestion of the "two-fer" competition. But the strategy that would work in the absence of that method right now would be for Nader and Buchannon to register as many new voters as they possibly can, decide on their rock-bottom three issues from which they will not budge, then right before the election, throw their support to the candidate with whom they can work out a compromise and gain assurance that those issues will become policy if they help that candidate get elected. That's the art of compromise, and THAT's at the heart of politics.

ww

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:14 AM

I agree, and that is why it was so nice that the moderator, at least, would dip into the cesspool of answers and come up with a simple, So is this the difference between you? until they'd agree that yes, that was the difference. And shut up.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:23 AM

Gore looked focussed, stayed on topic, and didn't let the other guy put him off track--qualities that people would rather see in a leader than, say, eye-rolling, snottiness, and the inability to deliver one-liners.

Kevin, you are exactly right, but the thing that you don't know is that the pundits don't dare say what they think about "W" on camera or in their papers, because off-camera, he makes nasty, abusive, and vicious phone calls, sometimes to the pundits, but more often to their bosses, who often are former classmates or political or business acquaintances of his wealthy ex-president father--

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: MK
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:26 AM

It was the bland leading the bland (IMHO).

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:29 AM

Honest question.

Could a politician in today's style of debate, be considered the winner if he answered questions squarely and simply, and didn't even come close to filling up his 2-3 minute time limit per mini-speech? Could he still be considered "Knowledgable"?

John

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: WyoWoman
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:40 AM

Nope. Not if s/he gave a simple yes or no answer. But if s/he took the time to illuminate the answer with facts, yes. BUT ... and here's the hook ... the American public (and believe me, this isn't just an American problem. If it hasn't hit a political race in a country near you, just wait.) has bought into the whole packaging of the candidate ethos and what we look for now is someone who's cute or personable or ... you know, all that junk, rather than someone who knows what s/he is doing and knows the process of how to take something from idea to reality within an existing system, WHILE trying to reform or improve the system.

I worry that we could fall head over heels in love with some great-sounding, great-appearing demogogue just because s/he hired the right ad agency. Or maybe I've been watching too many movies. We do seem to keep lurching forward and doing pretty well in spite of ourselves. Now if we could just see to it that the workers of the world aren't ground under in our Great March Forward ...

I know. I ask a lot ...

ww

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 11:54 AM

All I know is, if the Democrats have control of the Congress, I want a Republican president, and if the Republicans have control of the Congress, I want a Democratic president. The less they can do, the better off we'll all be.

Alex
O..O
=o=

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:10 PM

I feel like a fool. I listened with interest, was surprised tha Bush did as well as he did, was interested in the concept of a retirement account vs. Social Security (although disappointed not to hear a real plan and suspicious that there may not be one), was facinated at Gore's progress from the "wooden Indian" of a few years ago and his amazing resemblance to Superman.It didn't change my mind but I wasn't bored. I guess I really do need to get a life.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: GUEST,Mbo_at_ECU
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:34 PM

Can we re-elect Clinton?

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:52 PM

Bolt of Lightening!!!!!
It was the second vodka-tonic. That explains my fascination with professional wrestling too.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 12:52 PM

Kendall- and what's wrong with Tony Knowles?? *G*

I did watch. Afterward I was amazed, as usual, at how different my take is on something, when they switched to the pool of 'undecided' voters and most of them agreed that Bush had made a better impression.

In the debate I saw I thought Gore stayed on track much better and came across as a person who had thought about these things. Bush seemed like an unpleasant puppy chewing at Gore's heels.

The good thing is that if dubya is elected, we'll get 4 years of Alfred E. Newman cartoons.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:07 PM

As to the "undecided" voters, Ebbie, it struck me as being a bit odd that so many had voted for Clinton, leaned toward Gore before the debate, and changed over,and were won over to Bush based on such a poor performance--

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:09 PM

Hmmmm, M. Ted, are you saying this was a staged act? Nah, of course not. :-)

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: John Hardly
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:13 PM

Wyo Woman,

I think your response to my question was dead-on. The irony is that, the harder they try to appeal as you said, the less genuine they appear.

John

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:21 PM

Do they have real Sumo wrestling on the TV in the States? I knew this thing reminded me of something, then I switched on a sports channel, and there it was. Two well-fed blokes pushing each other round a tiny ring until one of them puts a foot wrong falls over. Except Bush and Gore weren't wearing those nappies that the Sumo wrestlers favour.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:25 PM

I am somewhat amazed that so many U. S. Mudcatters are taking this election so lightly. The flip remarks, statements proudly written that he/she was so disenchanted with both candidates, they couldn't be bothered watching the debates. Like or dislike either candidate, one of them is going to be President of the United States.

Lord knows, Kendall and I are poles apart when it comes to politics, but at least he states his beliefs with conviction and strongly supports his candidate.

Strong supporters of Ralph Nader have done likewise.

I agree that this should not be a popularity contest. If it were, in my opinion, Bush would be a shoo-in. Gore has the personality of a totem pole. But a totem pole with arrogance, and self-importance to boot. But I guess some people enjoy being "talked down to."

Many have expressed surprise that Bush did as well as he did. Where did that idea come from? One doesn't become governor of a state by being a fool. I will admit that even about Clinton. You were surprised, I think, because the media told you that Bush would make a fool of himself, and you believed what you read in your newspapers and saw and heard on TV and radio. You heard it on TV, that makes it so.

If I were a young person today in the work force, I would take a long hard look at Bush's plan for social security. His plan is not going to allow you to put your money in risky high-stake, get rich quick stocks, you will be allowed to invest part of your SS savings in mutual funds, and other safer type investment vehicles. And if you have followed the stock market at all over a long period of time, you will realize that when you cash in your SS chips upon retirement, your payout is going to be a hell of a lot better than the fixed income levels seniors are wrestling with today as a result of their government's investment practices.

And what's with this all this talk about Bush not being qualified because he is just the governor of the second largest state in the Union? What the hell did Clinton do before he became President? Chop cotton?

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: kendall
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:32 PM

Wo Woman..it has already happened,(what you fear) Warren G. Harding..good looking air head, one of the very worst presidents of all time. There are those who believe that he was elected by the brand new women voters. He was caught red handed in a closet with a white house maid. No one wanted to crucify him... Ebbie, I dont get your reference to Tony Knowles?? who he??

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 01:39 PM

HA! I am incensed! Kendall, you mean you cited the Governor of Alaska and you don't even know him??

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: SINSULL
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 03:54 PM

DougR,
I thought the same about the Social Security and especially young, male voters. And so I approached my nephew - a bright young man recently graduated from Johns Hopkins with the question: "Will this affect your choice of a presidential candidate?" He looked at me in desbelief and said: "Aunt Mary, George Bush, Ralph Nader, Gore... it doesn't matter. There will be no Social Security when I retire." Realism? Cynicism? I don't know.

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: DougR
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:09 PM

SINSULL: I truly believe Social Security will be here regardless of who the president is, and whichever party occupies the White House. I think it has become "hip" among the younger generation to believe it won't be, but there are too many voters in this country that want SS for any politician to let it go down the drain. Just consider how much campaign time has been devoted to SS by both candidates. It is a very important political issue. Any politician that allowed it to die better look for another easy way to make a living.

DougR

Subject: RE: Anybody watch the debate?
From: paddymac
Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:12 PM

Hmm, err, - Kendall - I think Texas might well be the second largest state in terms of population. If I remember correctly, the 1990 census had CA, TX, NY & FL as numbers 1-4, respectively. FL's population has increased about 10% since then, so it may be third this time.