Roma/Gypsy Book

Subject: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:00 PM

While I remember
At work today while listening to BBC radio4 a book reading came on which was fascinating. Here are the details from the BBC website
Bury Me Standing: Isabel Fonseca's absorbing account of the gypsies and their journey. The hidden story of the gypsy holocaust

The excerpt I heard certainly challenged my own preconceptions

Roger

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:28 PM

Amazon has it in paperback for about $12 + shipping. You can order through Mudcat and we get a percentage.

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:28 PM

just found a few reviews and one of them seems to be a belly-dancing website!
So for the review or belly dancing tips (spaw?)

Here

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 02:53 PM

Can I buy it through UK Amazon and still contribute to Mudcat?
A Couple more links
Patrin
review..more belly dancing

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 03:03 PM

I think so. Go to the square above with the watery banjo and "Help Support the Mudcat." There is a link to Amazon .

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 04:22 PM

Its a good book, I got it for Christmas a couple of years ago but only read halfway through. I keep meaning to pick it up and read the rest of it but I just don't read as much these days as I used to.

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 06 Oct 00 - 05:08 PM

One of the best books about gypsies--it was a bestseller a number of years ago--

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: InOBU
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 01:59 PM

Great book, however, most serrious scholars are a bit anoyed at Fonseca for plagerizing their work. However, she did a great service in popularising the Roma plight. A word of explainations she did not understand, as she does not speak romaness. To be burried standing, is to be burried upside down, head first. What our brother Manus Romanoff, if memory serves, was saying was blame me for allowing myself to be oppressed... Burry me standing - I have been living on my knees my whole life. Takes on a differnet meaning in light of that, eh???
Das Baxtaley hai sastimos.
Lor

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 03:25 PM

Lorcan,

Good time to ask you--are there any other good books about the Roma that you can recommend?

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Oct 00 - 05:24 PM

Try Grattan Puxon in Amazon. Gypsies under the Swastika is the only book by him they have as in print, though only available on special order thrpough Amazon.com. Probably easier through Amazon.uk. A previous book by Grattan (along with Donald Kenrick), called "The Destiny of Euirope's Gypsies" is well worth getting hold of, if you possibly can.

Being out-of-print and special-order-only hold of fits in with the way somehow the genocide of Roma and other travellers under the Nazis keeps on getting sidetracked.

Since I believe Isobel Fonseca is married to Salman Rushdie, maybe her book will get a bit more media attention.

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 07:27 AM

Ah McGrath!
Sorry I did not respond to this thread for a while, I have been preoccupied... In fact, Isobel's HUSBAND is a Friend of the Mr. Rushdie, and there was a scurroulous theory that - as he was in hiding with them at the time she was writing BMS, that she had help from the great man. Ted, Roma books are hard to get in print, the list goes something like, Gypsies by Jan Yoors (I know his wives, great book great stories, losts to say about his family... but read the book first) "Gypsies in the City", hard to find... try Amazon, "Familier Strangers" by Marlane Sway, "Hidden Americans" by Anne Sutherland? I am a little out of it this morning... these names should be very familier - fighting coming down the a cold I think... The Pariah Syndrom by Dr. Ian Handcock... History of the Gypsies by Dr. David Crowe (an increadibly nice fellow and great athority) and in the Yale Law Journal, I'll find the cite for you, Anonomous Law Making, the Case of Gypsies by Walter O. Wyrauch (great piece - lovely fellow, in his nineties) that's the short list
Larry

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 08:55 AM

Thanks--I have saved this. for a rainy day, so to speak--

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: Ringer
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:00 AM

Can I ask, InOBU, what informed opinion thinks of George Borrow's Lavengro and The Romany Rye these days? I read them with great enjoyment 30 years ago or more, although can't remember much about them now, except for that memorable phrase "The wind on the heath, brother" from Jasper Petulengro.

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: GUEST,keja
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 11:24 AM

I haven't personally read Mr. Borrow's works as of yet, but I think the depth of his writing is spoken to by the number of citings his writings continually receive in newer books on Gypsies. Aside from the books listed above, Angus Fraser's book "The Gypsies" was very well written. If I remember correctly I particularly liked his linguistic explanations. There are many sources available for Gypsy research if you know where to look. There is a company in the UK called Cottage Books at Gelsmoor, Coleorton, Leicestershire, LE67 8HR that has a 32 page catalogue just on printed books and articles about Gypsies. The Journal of The Gypsy Lore Society is certainly one of the first places to visit: www.gypsyloresociety.org

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 06:59 PM

Hi folks, Gypsy Lore Society is getting better at consulting and employing Roma, didn't a few years ago, but from o Grastende muy, the horses mouth, go to Patrin Journal, use the search term Patrin (leaves in Romaness). Bald Eagle, I don't know Barrow's books, though I will run into them now, I'm sure. Thanks for the info. Fraser's book is very good and should have been on my list, as I have sited it in a number of scholastic and opinon papers.
Best of luck to all
Larry

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: celticblues5
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 07:47 PM

An aside
I used to correspond with a women in Slovakia, at the time they were breaking up with the Czech republic. She had said that in their first real election, they had about twenty political parties, including trivial ones (The Beer Party - dedicated to the promotion of the drinking of beer!) & more serious ones, like one whose main platform was the bettering of conditions for the Roma in Slovakia. I've lost touch with her, and was wondering if anyone knew whether anything had been accomplished in that respect.

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: InOBU
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 11:09 PM

Slovakian Roma, I have spoken with, say that they are treated badly, though, better than in surrounding countries, for example, Albanians treat them much worse, especialy in Kosovo, where they are victems of ethnic cleansing. However, even in the US, where among our large population of Roma, between one and two million, by some estimates, conditions are extrodinary. In the US there is indemic illiteracy and complete apathy on the part of governent agencies other than the police who are involved in Racial profiling on a scale that most people would find hard to believe. A small example is the most common police manual on policing Roma, it is called Gyspies Travellers and Theaves. Thank you Cher.
My dee kos amay
Larry

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: M. Ted (inactive)
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 02:29 PM

As per your point on the profiling--I remember reading, about 15 or so years ago, an article in the Philadelphia Inqurier about how waves of gypsies thieves poured into the delaware valley and committed all manner of petty thieveries and crimes within a few blocks of the PA turnpike ramp--there was great detail on how the crimes were set up, what was taken, and, owing to the gypsies parapetetic natures, the helplessness of prosecutors and law enforcement--

I worked one of the areas mentioned, actually within walking distance of the toll booth, and had cause to wonder--we did get all manner of travelling peddler, magazine salesmen, truck sellers, and the like, but I had never remembered any gypsies coming around. I dutifully checked the local police blotter, the crime reports in the local paper, and came up blank. A call to the paper revealed the Montogmery county prosecutor's office as the source, they said that it might have come from one of the local jurisdictions, around and around--never could find anyone who knew anything about it, but it had been all over the paper--

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:48 PM

Hi M. Ted: The news media is a great culprit in the fostering of anti Romani views by the police. NBC did a piece about Murphy Village, on Nightline, which in no way attempted to match percent of unhappy coustomers of Irish Traveller painters and small contactors with complaints about the same in other communities (as if that would be less prejudicial) They alleged that most of the Murphy Village travellers were con-artists, and so in parts of the country, such as Toledo, cops ran Traveller painting companies out of town, refering to the NBC reports. It gets worse, Nightline recieved an award for the program, which, for example, showed girls in their confirmation dresses and alleged they were child brides, in spite of having been shown the comunion and latter marridge certificates from the girls defamed. Gypsys are fair game in ways other ethnic groups have risen above decades ago.
All the best to all, Larry

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 07:47 PM

If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger.

Travelling people have shown such ingenuity in making their way and getting by in all the changes in the word. It strikes me that there are things around now which could have been designed to help people who are leading a travelling way of life - I mean things like mobile phones and the internet.

I hope things like that that might do something to help them in dealing with all the other changes that have made it harder for them. I am absolutely confident that there will be travelling people who will find ways of using things like that in a way consistent with their traditions, and as a help in surviving as a people.

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 08:37 AM

this seems to follow on nicely Building a Roma media
If it has moved (been archived) try the Guardian homepage and search for the title

Roger

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: InOBU
Date: 18 Feb 01 - 10:02 AM

Thanks Roger, Have to read the linked piece later, gotta run to Groton CT to record with the band. Looks good, Larry

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: GUEST,jennym
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 10:32 AM

has anyone seen a book called one in a million, probably out of print now?

Subject: RE: Roma/Gypsy Book
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 03 Mar 11 - 03:39 PM

No jennym but I will check it out.

Smoke in the Lanes is an english classic.

Kushti Bok.