Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:54 AM

>>> It comes from the fact that they are unaccompanied

Simply not true.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jack Campin
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 11:17 AM

Folk rock is not just a British or Uko-Hiberno-American phenomenon, and its variations in other places point to some directions Anglophones haven't tried. The Italian singer Ginevra di Marco often works with a rock lineup and she's as political as anyone could want. Hungarian bands like Kerekes don't touch contemporary issues, and their material is pretty much straight trad, just scored differently. Probably the most publicly influential folk-rock group in the world is Kardes Turkuler from Turkey, and they use their choice of repertoire to make a political point, incorporating players and songs from ethnic minorities like Kurds and Armenians. (They had a 25th anniversary gig in London last week - wish I could have gone).

I am not sure if Runrig see themselves as folk rock, but they are certainly the voice of their community, not just rootless entertainers seeking patronage from anywhere.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:55 AM

100 :-)

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:51 AM

Sorry that last comment was a reply to
"This is such a bizarre myth to propagate. I wonder where it comes from. "
I replied It comes from the fact that they are unaccompanied - our oral tradition is overwhelmingly solo singing without accompaniment
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:32 AM

some old blokes droning on in the back room a pub "
There we have it - wegpo allo our fo;k songs from "old blokes and women droning awayiun pubs - tyha new crowd take 'em for free , usually f*** them up, arrange them and sticdk a little (c) on them to capitalise on them and then hurl ageist remarks at the people who gave us our songs
Sums up 'Folk Rock" as far as I'm concerned
" folk rock may be their way into folk music."
There their way out of folk music - there is litle in folk roick to light a path into 'the real thing'
Our folk songs are narrative - stories set to music - folk rock is little more than a sound - how can you follow the plot when the words are drowned out by overloud instrumentation
It comes from the fat that they are unaccompanied - even in Ireland where the musical tradition is extremely high
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:18 AM

They are certainly more likely to get onto folk that way than listening to some old blokes droning on in the back room a pub - not all folk sessions are like that by any means but a fair few are!

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST,JoeG
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:17 AM

One thing that is worth remembering is that for some people folk rock may be their way into folk music. I'm sure Steeleye, Fairport etc encouraged many young people to explore further and I would hope bands like Merry Hell, Sail Pattern, Blackbeard's Tea Party etc would have a similar impact on young people today

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:10 AM

Jim

I was referring to your statement "Dave talks about 'getting out of the water' - I don't have to; almost everything that interests me is in there with me."

Sorry if I misunderstood and that does not mean that you are happy to stay in the same pool.

And just a word of advice on your last line. It is not a good one to use to son of a Pole who had to leave his country when it was invaded. Good job I am thick skinned.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 10:06 AM

>> lets not forget that in the British Isles songs were usually unaccompanied

This is such a bizarre myth to propagate. I wonder where it comes from. It is certain that on here there are plenty pushing this idea, and claiming a greater moral authority through doing so.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 09:48 AM

"There are many who like to swim in the same pool all the time just as there are those who like the sea, lakes and rivers as well. "
I've just attempted to show how what I do covers a far wider range than most - other musics, theatre, literature, history politics, the classic (including classical music)...
You appear to have read what I have written and come to the conclusion that if I don't like folk rock I am "narrow"
I've shown you mine now you show yme yours
Wanna discuss Shakespeare - see you on the thread - wanna learn a few good jokes - go look up mine on the joke thread - my taste in music is probably wider than most - unfortunately I regard anything connected with modern pop music mildly imbecilic at best and aggressively oppressive at worst - "pump up the volume" is the musical equivalent of invading Poland as far as I am concerned

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 09:30 AM

Your last sentence is spot on, Howard.

I am not too sure about the songs being usually unaccompanied. In terms of the bardic tradition, IE telling a story, you are mostly right. I am sure some storyteller/singers chose to provide themselves a a bit of musical or percussive accompaniment but I would certainly accept that in the main they just sang. However, singing is only part of the tradition. Music and in particular music to dance by has always played a massive roll in the folk traditions of any country. I don't think that either is more important than the other and personal preference comes into it a lot.

Maybe, just maybe, the oral tradition of storytelling via song has lapsed simply because if people want news or stories there are now so many other sources open to them? Music for its own sake however will never fall into disuse. At least I hope not! Poetry, whether set to music or not, is a different kettle of fish and I think people enjoy the wordcraft as much as the tune. I, for one, love Peter Bellamy's arrangements of Kipling's poems. But is that folk music? Let's not start that again... ;-)

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Howard Jones
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 08:11 AM

Folk music is simply the source for this, and lets not forget that in the British Isles songs were usually unaccompanied. Once you start arranging them for instruments, whether for acoustic guitar, orchestra or rock band, you are moving away from the original and no approach can claim to have a greater moral authority over another. It then becomes a matter of personal taste and whether the ideas work from a musical point of view.

For me, the distinction lies in whether it is just different way of performing folk, or whether folk is being used as raw material to create something in a different genre. When classical composers such as Britten or Vaughn Williams arranged folk songs they used the songs as raw material to create 'art' music for a classical music audience. Bands like Steeleye and the Albion Band appear to me to be doing something similar, aimed more at a popular music audience rather than a folk one, and that is what I think makes it folk-rock. There are plenty of bands who happen to include rock instruments who I wouldn't consider folk-rock, because they are aiming at a folk audience.

The question is whether performing folk music in the style of contemporary popular music helps to attract young people. In some cases it will, in others it may put them off. Unless it is very well done it can fail both as folk and as rock. As with everything to do with music, it comes back to personal taste.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 08:01 AM

Speak up John! :-)

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 06:40 AM

Dave talks about 'getting out of the water' - I don't have to; almost everything that interests me is in there with me.

And there we have it, Jim. There are many who like to swim in the same pool all the time just as there are those who like the sea, lakes and rivers as well. There are also those who cannot swim at all. It is all about personal taste and what interests you. Peoples tastes and interests are very personal and to decry them as being somehow not as good as your own may generate the type of rancour that we sometimes see on here. Not that I am saying you do that but when you use phrases like "wannabe pop stars who could't make it on the mainstream scene" to describe other peoples heroes you must understand that it is a very contentious and mainly false statement. I don't believe for one minute that anyone who performs music is in it just for the money. They do it out of passion and love of music. That they managed to make money out of is largely due to being exceptionally good at what they and being in the right place at the right time.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 06:21 AM

This is becoming a bit like Holby City with a bunch of doctors standing around a patient on life-support saying "She' just twitched"
Does it really matter !
The basic difference for me between Folk and 'folk(sic) rock" is that, whenther it has made it this far or not, it exists only for itself - it has nbasic o identity of its own other than the one it has stolen and misused from a centuries-old song /music form, no great history of development and no input into national culture or society - it does not exist outside its immediate paerformance - a sound and nothing else.
Fol - song in particular, is exactly the opposite - it carries both national and socal history the songs were made to express the aspirations and observations of those who made them and carried them down the ages - it is an integral part of society
Dave talks about 'getting out of the water' - I don't have to; almost everything that interests me is in there with me.
My first live music interest was the wonderful jazz that was played at the cavern before it became Beatle infested - that love never went away, but it took me to the Blues which developed a further interest in Black America, slavery, The Civil Rights Music..
Then to British indigenous music with all its historical, political and social implications - Lloyd's and Lomax's work threw open the international gates.
My meeting and falling under the influence of MacColl and Seeger developed a latent interest in Theatre - MacColl not only introduced me to some great theatre and literature, but his pioneering work on technical work was based on that done by Stanislavski for The Moscow Ats Theatre - his relaxation excercises were pioneered by Rudolph Laben's 'Efforts' adapted for dance - Ewan adapted them for singing
Throw in my interest in Cinema and literature and I'd have to live three lifetimes even to scratch the surface
Next to this 'Folk Rock is all a little fanzine, I'm afraid - sorry
One thinng I've learned in life is, get on the right bus and it'll take you anywhere
Jim

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 06:18 AM

Thanks Rob for that great list. Lots of brilliant bands on there. I have never heard of most of them and have checked out half on Youtube now. more later. Got to agree though that I would never call that folk rock, and would certainly never dream of calling it just folk. I mean I wouldn't on this forum :-)

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 06:17 AM

Good points, Howard, even though I disagree on some. But that is what healthy discussion is all about :-) I would define Folk Rock as a genre that uses elements of both folk and rock music as its structure. As such it is independent of types of instrument although a driving rhythm is required to fulfill the rock element. There are Steeleye Span songs that do not have any rock element and I would not place in that category but, in the main, they are the archetypal folk rock band. Blackbeards Tea Party make good use of percussion and bass to provide that rock element and, again, in the main, they are good examples of Folk Rock.

Following that through, if we look at the development of rock it came from rock and roll which in turn came from blues which came from gospel, jazz and country amongst many others. I think it fair to say that, although the term was not coined until the 1950s, rock has always existed and in folk music, particularly dance. Those driving rhythms that we now term Folk Rock have been around forever!

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST,Joe G
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 05:20 AM

Well done Dave & Rob for giving examples showing that folk rock is still alive and kicking - though I'm not sure I would class Gilmore Roberts as folk rock much as I love them.

Dick asks if there are any songs of social comment being performed in the genre - try Merry Hell or some of Robb Johnson's rockier albums as starting points.

For excellent interpretations of traditional material Joshua Burnell is a newish kid on the block and of course Jim Moray has excelled for many years.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Howard Jones
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 05:12 AM

It's very difficult to define what folk-rock is. I don't think its the same as using electric instruments - an acoustic guitar is not more authentic than an electric one. From time to time I've played in bands which have included drum kits, electric guitars and electric bass, but we certainly wouldn't consider ourselves to be folk-rock.

Folk-rock was a deliberate attempt to present traditional songs in a (then) contemporary style. Steeleye Span were a 1970s guitar band with added fiddle, and their sound was very much of that time and now sounds dated. Just because they use electric instruments I don't consider Blackbeard's Tea Party to be folk-rock, because I feel their approach is much more a lively folk style rather than an attempt to sound like contemporary popular music. I would regard someone like Seth Lakeman as being much more in the folk-rock tradition as his style appears to derive more from contemporary popular music than from folk.

Folk music has come on since the 1970s and it is now commonplace to find a much wider range of instruments than used to be the case. Brass, keyboards, saxaphones and electric guitars and bass are now commonplace, but in most cases these are not used to mimic popular music and the result is folk rather than rock.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 05:09 AM

Found them on Youtube. Nothing at all on that list I would consider "folk-rock". I'm out of this fairly pointless "discussion".

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 04:57 AM

Thanks for that list, Rob Naylor - I will check them out.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 04:29 AM

I really like that, Rob, and no electronics in sight! Giving credence to my statement that folk music could have always used drum and bass :-D

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 04:16 AM

A bit of (Norfolk born and Cornwall raised, despite the Irish surname)Sam Kelly and The Lost Boys:

Jolly Waggoners and Banish Misfortune

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 04:15 AM

BTW - I only know two on your list (Faustus and Kerfuffle) so I will use the rest as recommendations :-) I was going to include Something Nasty in the Woodshed on my list but was sad to find they had disbanded in 2016. Do you know them?

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 04:12 AM

Thanks Rob. It's nice to know I did not imagine it :-)

I stuck to the bands that people may recognise rather than the many others I have either seen or listened to.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 04:02 AM

Guest: Surely shouldn't be too hard to give us say 10 examples of all these great folk rock bands around in 2019 ?
Is that too much to ask ? Please ?

Dave the Gnome's list contains a fair few bands that a re a bit long in the tooth. A list of just ten (from many) more recently formed bands, off the top of my head:

Gilmore and Roberts
Faustus
Sam Kelly and The Lost Boys
Midnight Skyracer
MG Boulter
Kerfuffle
The Willows
Emily Askew Band
Dovetail Trio
Cardboard Fox

There are loads more out there, that's just off the top of my head.

Re DtG's Wiki quote: The number, and mainstream recognition, of electric folk groups is lower in the 21st century than it was in the late 20th.

They may not have the "mainstream recognition" of say Steeleye or Fairport in their heyday but I'd argue that the number is no lower this century than it was last. Their standard of musicianship is very high, and they regularly fill reasonably-sized venues.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:58 AM

Why - can't you do both ?

That is exactly what I am saying Jim, I do both. But not at the same time :-D

Your spotify list may contain artists that have been going a long time but, the point is, they are still around. Far from a flash in the pan. There are plenty that have been formed a lot more recently too although, seeing as you have no interest, I would not expect you to be aware of them.

And BTW, Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull may be 71 but he would run rings round most people here!

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:38 AM

"Spot on. You have no interest yet you are happy to say 'it hardly survived a decade'."
No I don't Dave - others do - I jusy pass on the information
The fact that I have no interest in it doesn't miss I am unaware of it - how could you miss something as loud as that
It's not possible to to keep up with a genre that comes with a built-in shelf life unless you are prepared to scrabble around the dustbins
No-one lives in a bubble any more - they only have to log in to find what's happening - and god knows, there are enough people o this forum to put yuo straight
I put up the Spotify list - nothing younger than twenty years
Steeley Span - Fairport - Albion - Oyster - come-on - they've had more revivals than Frank Sinatra
Jethro Tull - inspires a picture of stages needing wheelchair ramps

"but at times I do like to get out and do something else :-)"
Why - can't you do both ?
I stop swimming when I need a piss - that's the only reason I have to "get out" of a music that still fills my life

Jim

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:33 AM

my opinion is that folk rock has made little progress since the days of steeleye span, its proponents are still sufferin from too loud decibels and will continue to go deaf, itdoes not seem to have anything nmew to offer, are there any cutting songs of social comment?

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:21 AM

BTW - Forgot to add. I've been swimming in the same pool since about 1975 but at times I do like to get out and do something else :-)

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:14 AM

Jim

I really don't know why I'm bothering discussing a music I haven't the slightest interest in which I have only ever considered predator section of the pop scene looking for ways to use folk music

Spot on. You have no interest yet you are happy to say 'it hardly survived a decade'. Do you not think that it may be that because you have no interest, you have not kept up with the genre? In which case, how can you possibly know what the current Folk Rock scene is like?

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:10 AM

OK, Guest 07 Feb 19 - 07:12 PM . I don't know you as you do not have the courtesy to put a name to your posts but, assuming this is not a wind up and seeing as you said please, here are your 10 (In no particular order)

Steeleye Span
Fairport Convention
Albion Band
Broadside Electric
Oyster Band
Jethro Tull
Edward II
Runrig
Red Hot Chilli Pipers
Blackbeards Tea Party

If you want any more Google, Amazon and Spotify will do it far better than I so ask them.

Guest 07 Feb 19 - 07:37 PM

If you do not like Steeleye Span, Fairport Convention or Blackbeards Tea Party, chances are you do not like Folk Rock so I suspect your request for more information is spurious.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 19 - 03:08 AM

"Jim. I don't need to prove anything in Wiki. It has already been done by a team of editors and experts in the field. "
Wiki isn/ made up of "editors in the field" Dave - it consists of information and opinions sent in by whoever feels like doing so - it even invites people to edit its entries
You are getting to sound like the people I have spent my life arguing so pointlessly with
I really don't know why I'm bothering discussing a music I haven't the slightest interest in which I have only ever considered predator section of the pop scene looking for ways to use folk music
Folk rock, as far as I'm concerned was made up of wannabe pop stars who could't make it on the mainstream scene and so chose the folk clubs as a platform
Fine by be as long as they did no damage to the music that mattered - they were never more than a passing fad as all pop based music is - to be re-invented whenever the industrty felt it profitable to do so
It could never be considered grass-roots in the scene I was involved in because the people I knew couldn't have afforded the necessary equipment if they'd wanted it.
Folk song proper is basically a solo act by people who used it for self expression; the sharing of ideas, emotions and aspirations via the songs they sang - that is still working for me after over a half century's involvement - you couldn't ask more of a lifelong interest
The lady from West Wales has just put up a link of youngsters getting the same enjoyment I have out of traditional song - I envy them their youth and I hope they get a fraction of the enjoyment out of it that I have
One of the ways they will do that is by realising its importance and by sharing that importance with others - a far cry than faddiish -based pop music that needs to die regularly to keep the industry in profit
Our folk scene came into being to escape the tedious pap about 'pink and blue toothbrushes' and wanting to be "Bobby's Girl"   
It worries me to see many of today's performers who count success in how many CDs they make or how many paid gigs they can get - as for the media driven competitions.... don't get me started!

I now live in a place which had a rich tradition of traditional song and now has a throbbing six-night-a-week traditional music scene - largely played by youngsters a third of my age - some of them already as good as the best I have ever heard
Here they share the music rather than selling it -
That's beginning to happen with the singing, but it'll take time, thought and effort to build a lasting foundation for it to build on
I would love to see that happen in the UK, but it ain't going to happen on a scene that can't even put a name and identity to the music they claim to perform and hurl epithets like "purist" and "folk-fascist" at anybody who can.
Folk song is extremely enjoyable in all its aspects, but like Shankley once said about football - it's much more important than that   
If it's going to survive it has to be shared - that sharing can be ecery bit as enjoyable as listening to a good song, well performed
Come in - the water's lovely - it always has been
Jim

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: sian, west wales
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 08:24 PM

These kids certainly enjoy their trad. I think it's a great project!

sian, west wales

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 07:37 PM

I agree with the other guest.

Thanks for the Tea Party recommendation. I had never heard of them, and they are not my thing. I really don't like Fairport and Steeleye Span though. Though I think Pentangle are great. But maybe Pentangle are not folk rock.

Got to wonder how people define folk rock, I imagine as usual on here everyone is arguing at cross purposes.

But srsly, telling those of us who don't know and who are interested to go and look it up is not helpful. We don't know. We don't know where to look. We don't know what you are talking about. Why not show us.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 07:12 PM

Surely shouldn't be too hard to give us say 10 examples of all these great folk rock bands around in 2019 ?
Is that too much to ask ? Please ?

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 02:58 PM

Well said, Guest 07 Feb 19 - 12:56 PM.

Guest 07 Feb 19 - 11:06 AM

Examples.

Old school folk rock. Every tour by Steeleye Span sells out.
New folk rock. Every tour by Blackbeards Tea Party sells out.

Those are just the obvious ones. I am not going to do your homework for you by listing the many others that a little googling will find

Jim. I don't need to prove anything in Wiki. It has already been done by a team of editors and experts in the field.

I am not going to argue with you. There is little point as the world I live in is vastly different to yours. One day I hope to visit yours and I have already invited you to visit mine. One courtesy I would ask of you though. Please stop saying that the world I live in does not exist. It does. It is full of traditional folk, dance music and folk rock. I enjoy it :-)

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 12:56 PM

I don't like the title of the thread..why does it have to be one vs the other. Both types of music offer good listening. So why denigrate one at the expense of the other ?

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 12:46 PM

" I couldn't resist that little indulgence of cheeky mischief making..."
Me too

"Can you disprove the statement, "
Can you prove it
Wiki is what I said it was


I MAKE THE MOST RECENT AROUND A DECADE OUT OF DATE -
Do you sing The Banks of Denial ?
Jim

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 12:32 PM

Jim - ey up.. I couldn't resist that little indulgence of cheeky mischief making...

Took my mind off going to the bloody dentist again - 3rd time in 2 weeks...

Any trad folk songs about dentists getting their come uppance...???

Of course I don't think all our Brit/Celtic trad folk is dull stodge...

I just bought some more "The Young Tradition" CDs...

including the previously unreleased USA live gig...

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 11:06 AM

"I would be interested to see your repudiation of the fact that there are many Folk Rock bands currently thriving and drawing large audiences wherever they appear".
Examples , please ?

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 10:48 AM

BTW - Wikipedia, for all its flaws, is generally a good and accurate resource. From its own 'about' page -

Wikipedia is written collaboratively by largely anonymous volunteers who write without pay. Anyone with Internet access can write and make changes to Wikipedia articles, except in limited cases where editing is restricted to prevent disruption or vandalism. Users can contribute anonymously, under a pseudonym, or, if they choose to, with their real identity. The fundamental principles by which Wikipedia operates are the five pillars. The Wikipedia community has developed many policies and guidelines to improve the encyclopedia; however, it is not a formal requirement to be familiar with them before contributing.

So, if there is anything you disagree with then you are perfectly entitled to submit amendments. Of course everyone else is entitled to do the same so they then apply the following process

Where there are disagreements on how to display facts, editors often work together to compile an article that fairly represents current expert opinion on the subject.

In a nutshell, if you don't like what Wikipedia is saying, you can do something about it.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 09:16 AM

Wiki proves as unreliable as it did first time around

How so, Jim? Can you disprove the statement, "However, the genre has not only been highly influential on both rock and folk music, thanks to the remarkable longevity of the key groups and productivity of the members, together with renewed interest in subsequent generations, electric folk continues to survive and artistically thrive."?

I would be interested to see your repudiation of the fact that there are many Folk Rock bands currently thriving and drawing large audiences wherever they appear.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 08:54 AM

"Did you read the links I provided, Jim?"
Yes I did Dave and, as lst time Wiki proves as unreliable as it did first time around
I tend to judge for myself rather than a site usually written to promote personal tastes rather than accurate information
Fads such as folk rock and mini choir "Waterson Wannabes" came and wentwhen I was still,involved
Sorry Punky - your taste is obviously not that which drove
It appears that MacColl was right when he said folk music would only be at the risk of dying when it fell into the hands of people who didn't like it
"stodgy dull British/Celtic 'folk' music...|" just about sums that up for me - and would leave me feeling personally insulted if I took it seriously
I still picture "punk" as the somewhat saddo group of weird looking middle-aged people who haunted the top of Royal Avenue on the Kings Road when I lived in London - "chacun a son gout" I suppose
Jim

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 07:17 AM

Rock n Roll was just a commercialising commodifying marketing name applied to a form of music
that had been evolving as grass roots poor black and whites 'folk' music
for decades prior the 1950s and Alan Freed and all the other corporate bandwagon jumpers...

..and it's a hell of a lot more engaging and exciting tham a huge amount of stodgy dull British/Celtic 'folk' music...

... and 'our' folk music mostly aint as interesting and emotive as central, northern, and eastern European trad folk music...

[best not rile any folkie brexiteers..]

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 06:54 AM

Did you read the links I provided, Jim?

I agree wholeheartedly that Trad folk has 'several centuries lead' but that does not preclude the possibility of other genres still existing. In addition, at any time in those 'several centuries' folk music, particularly for dancing, has used drums and bass lines of varying types. Folk music is not and never has been exclusively unaccompanied song.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 06:30 AM

"Errrr, it's still going strong Jim."
Wot guest just said Dave
It sounds somewhat passé nowadays
Even if you were right Trad folk would have a several centuries lead on it
Sorry 'bout that
Jim

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 06:28 AM

British folk rock (Wiki entry)

Note sections

Heyday 1969–76

Decline and survival 1977–85

And particularly

Resurgence 1985–present

Which has the final paragraph

This resurgence represents nothing like the heady days of the 1970s. The number, and mainstream recognition, of electric folk groups is lower in the 21st century than it was in the late 20th. However, the genre has not only been highly influential on both rock and folk music, thanks to the remarkable longevity of the key groups and productivity of the members, together with renewed interest in subsequent generations, electric folk continues to survive and artistically thrive.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 06:21 AM

No it's not.

Subject: RE: Young Audiences - Trad Folk V Folk Rock
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Feb 19 - 06:08 AM

Folk rock hardly survived a decade

Errrr, it's still going strong Jim.