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Al Gore, next president

GUEST,Murray MacLeod 11 Oct 00 - 09:34 PM
thosp 11 Oct 00 - 10:01 PM
thosp 11 Oct 00 - 10:06 PM
Sorcha 11 Oct 00 - 10:29 PM
Nathan in Texas 11 Oct 00 - 10:35 PM
GUEST 11 Oct 00 - 10:49 PM
GUEST 11 Oct 00 - 10:55 PM
Sorcha 11 Oct 00 - 10:57 PM
GUEST,Murray MacLeod 11 Oct 00 - 11:05 PM
Troll 11 Oct 00 - 11:05 PM
GUEST, Banjo Johnny 11 Oct 00 - 11:17 PM
Little Hawk 12 Oct 00 - 12:12 AM
Sorcha 12 Oct 00 - 01:09 AM
Lepus Rex 12 Oct 00 - 01:31 AM
DougR 12 Oct 00 - 01:35 AM
WyoWoman 12 Oct 00 - 01:39 AM
JamesJim 12 Oct 00 - 01:44 AM
wysiwyg 12 Oct 00 - 01:49 AM
DougR 12 Oct 00 - 02:09 AM
Joe Offer 12 Oct 00 - 03:31 AM
kendall 12 Oct 00 - 08:20 AM
rabbitrunning 12 Oct 00 - 09:02 AM
Mrrzy 12 Oct 00 - 09:07 AM
Troll 12 Oct 00 - 09:26 AM
Jon W. 12 Oct 00 - 10:41 AM
Mbo 12 Oct 00 - 10:51 AM
mousethief 12 Oct 00 - 10:56 AM
Midchuck 12 Oct 00 - 11:05 AM
Art Thieme 12 Oct 00 - 11:11 AM
Biskit 12 Oct 00 - 11:16 AM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Oct 00 - 11:23 AM
DougR 12 Oct 00 - 11:48 AM
mousethief 12 Oct 00 - 11:58 AM
Frankham 12 Oct 00 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,bbc at work 12 Oct 00 - 12:09 PM
Uncle_DaveO 12 Oct 00 - 12:29 PM
Midchuck 12 Oct 00 - 12:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Oct 00 - 12:45 PM
MAG (inactive) 12 Oct 00 - 03:49 PM
DougR 12 Oct 00 - 06:13 PM
mousethief 12 Oct 00 - 06:18 PM
kendall 12 Oct 00 - 06:32 PM
DougR 12 Oct 00 - 06:37 PM
Peter K (Fionn) 12 Oct 00 - 06:51 PM
Troll 12 Oct 00 - 06:55 PM
Bill D 12 Oct 00 - 07:01 PM
Mbo 12 Oct 00 - 07:01 PM
kendall 12 Oct 00 - 08:31 PM
GUEST,Murray MacLeod 12 Oct 00 - 09:59 PM
DougR 12 Oct 00 - 10:10 PM
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Subject: Al Gore, next president
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 09:34 PM

People, the debate isn't over as I write, but take my word for it, there is no way the American public is going to elect George Bush as President. I think we can all sleep easier after tonight's tete-a -tete.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: thosp
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:01 PM

i for one hope you are right!

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: thosp
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:06 PM

i mean i hope you are right about Bush not being elected --- not that Gore is

peace (Y) thosp


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:29 PM

A necessary choice of evils? Vote for the lesser of two evils? gack, what a choice. Max for President!


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Nathan in Texas
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:35 PM

Is this what they call "trolling"? OK, I won't bite.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:49 PM

What is " this " and who are "they" Nathan ?

Murray


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:55 PM

Sorcha, I find your comment about choosing "the lesser of two evils" appallingly pessimistic, even cynical. What is different about this election than every other one that has taken place in the USA ?

Murray


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 10:57 PM

Nothing. That is part of the problem. Sorry, didn't mean to sound "trolly", I just am really pessimistic about the state of politics in the US. Hardly anybody really smart or with integrity wants to run anymore, and who can blame them, really?


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 11:05 PM

Sorcha, I am a stupid immigrant, and don't know much about US politics, but how do you figure that Al Gore lacks integrity ? ( I admit he is never going to become President of Mensa)

Murray


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Troll
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 11:05 PM

Did someone mention my name?

troll


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: GUEST, Banjo Johnny
Date: 11 Oct 00 - 11:17 PM

Misplaced pessimism. America is the best country, with the best government and best leaders in the world. We should be proud to have either candidate as President. My vote is for Al Gore and Joe Lieberman. == Johnny


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:12 AM

Ummm...Banjo Johnny,

America is not "the best country, with the best government and best leaders in the world", and it is dangerously naive to believe so.

It would, in fact, be naive to believe that about any country, anywhere, and it is precisely that kind of misguided patriotism that has fueled countless wars between countries. "My country right or wrong" is a form of insanity. Every aggressor in history has proceeded on the assumption that they were the "best" country.

I know for a fact that Canada is better in some ways than the USA, while the USA is better in some ways than Canada. Ditto for Cuba in both cases. Ditto for any number of other places. They all have their good points and bad points. Any one of them is better in this, and not so good in that, and you really can't sort it out to a final decision as to who is "best", although you can decide where you would most like to live at a given time...and that may well have more with what you are accustomed to than what is necessarily "best".

I understand honest patriotism, but don't imagine that your country is "the best" or has "the best leaders" (a truly stunning assumption for anyone to make). The rest of the world would consider such a notion laughable. It is simply an indefensible notion, once you have lived in a number of different societies across this world.

I repeat, there is no best country in this world. We are not competitors across this planet, we are brothers and sisters. We're in this together.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:09 AM

Thank you Little Hawk. As for Gore's integrity, just look at who he has been "fronting" for.........perhaps one of the biggest liars of all time? I don't disagree with all of Clinton's political decisions, but the boyo can get right up there with his stories. Maybe Al "had" to believe them for the good of the Party, but that bites too, doesn't it? What has happened to women (and mothers) in US politics? I think maybe they chickened out. I know I have. I would not run for public office even in the small ville I live in. I suppose that is a cop out, too.............


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Lepus Rex
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:31 AM

Naw, Little Hawk. Canada's better than the USA in pretty much EVERY way. Even your mullets are more spectacular.

---Lepus Rex


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:35 AM

Wow! Murray Macleod, I'm greatly relieved! I hadn't planned to watch the debate tonight, but I did.

You're assurance that Bush bombed out is most reassuring.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: WyoWoman
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:39 AM

Oh, lordy.

ww


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: JamesJim
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:44 AM

What a Bomb (and it dropped right on big Al)!

Jim


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 01:49 AM

I'm sorry, I am selfish-- will this mean more or less time Big Mick has to be away from Mudcat??? Cuz I vote for the darnedest reasons sometimes.

~S~


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 02:09 AM

Well, Praise, no disrespect intended, but perhaps you should take your responsiblilites as a voter more seriously. (said in the most friendly way possible).

DougR


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Subject: RE: Max Spiegel, next president
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:31 AM

Sorcha, I want to tell you something truly frightening - Max isn't old enough to be elected President. You have to be 35. Max ain't. He's just a pup.
A likeable pup, no doubt; but just a pup.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:20 AM

The biggest liar of all time? Hardly.. pick up a copy of Newsweek dated Ocober 16th and see that they are ALL lying. All 4 of them. Johnson lied about the "Gulf of Tonkin" non incident, Nixon lied about Watergate, Carter lied about being an engineer, the actor lied about Iran-Contre, and Arms for hostages. Lieberman lied about his change of heart on affirmative action, Cheney lied about his success, (..the government had nothing to do with it..) BS he didnt mention that 3 billion dollar govt. contract that helped him become rich. Bush lied about the numbers in his budget etc...are these issues less or more important than willy getting a little on the side? And one more thing, Bush keeps chirping about Clinton to remind us of what a scum bag he is.. but the fact is..CLINTON IS NOT RUNNING!! GORE IS NOT CLINTON VOTE DAMN IT!! Vote or shut up!!


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:02 AM

For that matter Franklin Delano Roosevelt was an accomplished liar. He lied straight faced to the press about the lend-lease program to Britain, and as near as I can tell, he lied to Congress too. Nevermind that his ability to tell whoppers probably saved England and Europe from complete and permanent domination by the Nazis.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:07 AM

A good president isn't honest, but rather a GOOD liar. Al is a better liar than Dumya. But I coked out last night, I stayed awake long enough to see that they were actually answering questions rather than choosing which pre-memorized speech to spout, and then all of a sudden there is Peter Jennings talking in the past tense, so I turned the TV off and went back to sleep. Did I miss anything as good as Lieberman using Big Time?


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Troll
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:26 AM

Gore seems to have "invented" so many things, lets see him invent himself as a man of honesty and integrity who did'nt say that he respected and admired Bill Clinton and was proud to call him a friend.

You're right Kendall. Gore is not Clinton. I don't believe that he's the sleaze-bag that Clinton is but he's every bit as much a liar.

I'm not too fond of Dubya as the Republican candidate, but Gore? SHEESH!

troll


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Jon W.
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:41 AM

Well, I didn't watch the debate but I did watch Nightline afterwards and the consensus there, along with the snap polls, was that Bush won the debate not Gore. Whatever happens, it seems certain that we are either going to elect a Repulicrat or a Democan as president this year.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:51 AM

I will stop
I will stop for nothing
Say the right things
When electioneering
I trust I can rely on your vote

When I go forwards
You go backwards
Somewhere we will meet
When I go forwards
You go backwards
And somewhere we will meet

Riot shields
Voodoo economics
It's just business
Cattle prods and the IMF
I trust i can rely on your vote

When I go forwards
You go backwards
Somewhere we will meet
When I go forwards
You go backwards
And somewhere we will meet


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:56 AM

I was amused that Bush, after his minions have been beating up on Gore for the past 2 weeks for misstatements, made a howler himself when he claimed that the men who dragged that old man to death behind their car were getting the death penalty. 2 of the 3 are; one is not. This is exactly the sort of half-truth that they have been blasting Gore for, and Dumbya goes and fumbles one himself. Hopefully this will shut the "Gore is such a liar" forces up, but of course it won't. As Lord Acton said, "a man who has bought a theory will fight a vigorous, rearguard action against the facts."

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:05 AM

How odd that the late Stan Rogers, a Canadian, and a person who died going on 20 years ago, should have made the two best observations about this U. S. election:

1) "...smiling bastards lying to you every where you go..."

2) "God damn them all..."

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Art Thieme
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:11 AM

REFRESH

If ya wanna vote for Bush but don't really want to do it,
Grease your feet in mutton suet,
Slide into Nader-land,
And play right into George Bush's hands,
Your vote will slide away easy,
And the oval office stays sleazy...

(Art)


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Biskit
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:16 AM

"It's useless to hold a person to anything they say while in love,drunk, or running for office.Peace-Biskit-


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:23 AM

I watched most of it. That's either masochism or voyeurism on my part. Or maybe I just like to be forewarned.

I know that all the politicians over there seem to be for the death penalty, and some decent people are as well, and there are arguments to be made for it and all that. So I'm not trying to start one here. But when Bush came to talk about the hate-crime case, he looked positively delighted at the prospect of the killers being killed. Not "this-is-something-terrible-which-we-have-to-do", but "hooray-we're-gonna-waste-the-bastards".

Maybe that's just him being honest. It's also sick and scary for a man who could be in a position to wipe us all out in a few months.

It suddenly occurred to me who it was he reminded me of, it's been niggling at me. Not so much the physical look, but the style. Remember Major Frank Burns in MASH ? His spiritual twin.

And I'm still gobsmacked at the way the papers all seem to talk about the man as being the kind of guy that Americans like! Can that really be true? To me it's a bit like being told that people think that Robin Cook is a handsome devil, or that Robert Mitchum is seen as having been a little effete.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:48 AM

Kendall, I wish you wouldn't hold back. Why don't you say what your think?

Alex: as long as he keeps tellin' 'em, he's gonna be called on 'em.

dougr


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 11:58 AM

That's fine, Doug, but why don't the same people call Bush on his? Ah, it's NOT because they are lovers of truth, then. Figured as much.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Frankham
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:04 PM

The "character issue" is almost a joke. Bush's activities in the seventies has been eclipsed by the media and as far as what Clinton did, JFK and Lyndon did more. Bush accusing anyone of being a liar is the pot calling the kettle black. His characer references are specious at best.

The problem with finger pointing is the old adage, point a finger at someone and two fingers point back at you.

McGrath, you are right. Bush is not your nice guy next door. There may be a note of cynicism here, because he may purposely employ gramatical errors to appeal to those who pride themselves on this kind of ignorance. He's a Yale guy, the son of a well-heeled former president from Amherst and not the real Texas cowboy that he claims to be. Whose lyin' now?

I think that Bush runs a negative campaign not in the way he attacks Gore but by virtue of not offering any concrete ideas as to how to govern. He would govern by absentia. He'll destroy the public school system by cutting off taxes to pay for it, pull our troops out of other countries that are not in his national interest, throw the surplus to the military (back to $200 toilet seats) and a costly anti-ballistic system, help his oil buddies by reducing their taxes, set civil rights and affirmative action back, sabotage Roe Vrs.Wade, ignore the demands of gay people, and probably encourage the states in the death penalty to execute innocent black young men.

The question you have to ask about Bush's plan for education is "Is our children learning?"

Gore bumbled through the so-called debate but at least has a cogent agenda. His expertise in foreign policy has been developed through experience in Washington.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: GUEST,bbc at work
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:09 PM

I would vote for any Republican, to get the Democrats out of office.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:29 PM

I"ve been a straight-ticket Republican voter for forty years. BUT!

No significant public officer is an individual. To say "I vote for (or against) the man" is bushwah. Any signficant public officer is a committee, a team, with large debts owing to other teams, with hopes of future support from certain sets of special interests. Whoever gets into the Oval Office is going to have to work with the team that put him there, and with the forces that put him there also put in Congress.

Despite what I said in the first paragraph, I expect to vote for Gore (and other Democrats) this time around. Why? Because I've been totally turned off by the actions of the Republican majority in Congress for the last eight years, and profoundly disturbed by the overwhelming influence the far right has achieved in the Republican party.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Midchuck
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:36 PM

bbc said: "I would vote for any Republican, to get the Democrats out of office."

So would I. But once they were in, I'd vote for any Democrat to get the Republicans out.

Peter.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:45 PM

But I thought the Republcans had a majority in both houses already?


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:49 PM

this is obviously going to go round and round, but I did hear lot while I was in Tennesee about

THE FAVORITE SON AND THAT GUY WHO THINKS HE'S A TEXAN.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:13 PM

You are correct McGrath.

You are correct, bbc.

David O: Who do you REALLY think brought on this prosperity Clinton/Gore loves to brag about? Clinton/Gore and the Democrats? If so, why didn't they do it when they had both a majority in the congress,AND the White House? Hmmmm?

MAG: if he's not a Texan, what is he? (careful now). He was in the oil business in Midland, Texas after graduating college, owned the Texas Ranger's baseball team, lives in Austin, Texas, has a small ranch in Crawford, Texas and before long, that ranch will be the SUMMER WHITE HOUSE (but since I was raised about thirty miles from that ranch I can attest to the fact that it is no place to visit in the summer).

Frank: if you REALLY believe what you said in your second paragraph ...well ...

DougR


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: mousethief
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:18 PM

DougR: I don't think the congress has a lot to do with prosperity at all, but I think nevertheless your argument is flawed. If in 1992 Clinton and the all-dem congress put into motion legislation (etc) that resulted in prosperity, do you think it would show up immediately? Not saying they did, mind you. But it stands to reason that things done by the congress session of 93-95 would not really show up in economic trends for some time, perhaps even not until after the election of 1994.

What really caused the election of 1994, of course, was the American public's realizing that they had foolishly given both the legislative and executive branches to the same political party. Not being able to vote out the president, they instead flopped the aisles in congress.

JMHO.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:32 PM

Bill Gates deserves more credit for the prosperity than either the democrats or the republicans. OK Doug, let me put it another way.. I dont like Al Gore (in fact I dont like any of them) but, I'm not voting for Al Gore the fibber, I'm voting for Al Gore the democrat, because I believe in the policies of the democrat party. Simple?


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:37 PM

You find my argument flawed, Mousethief? I'm shocked!

I will remind you though, Alex, that the Democrats controlled the congress for forty years prior to the Republican takeover. I believe during most of those years the Democrats also held the White House. You will argue, I assume, that those were bad years too for the same reason. Es so?

I do agree with you on one point though. It takes considerable time for the economy to turnaround. The current upturn is the result of economic policies enacted during the Reagan/Bush administrations, and the appointment Alan Greenspan (which was done by Reagan).

And I think the congress has more to do with the economy, good or bad, than any president of either party.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:51 PM

Rabbitrunning, why such confidence that the Nazis would have been permanent. Even Hitler was aiming lower, with his 1,000-year Reich. And whatever the consequences of America getting into that war, it's worth remembering that what did it was not any act of Roosevelt or Congress, but Hitler declaring war on the US. (That must be just about the most deeply buried fact of modern times.)

The death penalty is a big issue with me too McGrath. I'm against it on moral grounds but accept that if most people are in favour, then in a democracy it's their choice. But if they're going to kill people, they surely have an obligation to be fair about it - and those states in the US that kill people are demonstrably not fair about it.

And unlike the US of A, but in line with the UN Declaration of Human Rights, I see no case for killing kids, no matter what they've done. I think among the nation states, the USA stands shoulder to shoulder with The Yemen on that one. And that won't change, whichever of these lightweights wins.


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Troll
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 06:55 PM

Kendall,I can respect your position even though I do not agree with your politics. It doesn't look as though either of us have a lot to be proud of in our respective candidates.
I miss Ike. Hell, I miss Harry. And if it gets much worse, I may even miss FDR.

troll


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 07:01 PM

As long as the electorial process in the USA is left in this asinine format, NO one will be able to 'look' like a decent candidate, and the few really palatable politicians out there will avoid the presidential spotlight. Anyone can be made to look like a fool by rhetoric and sleazy politics.

I do think Gore 'might' be a better president than he is a campaigner, but the only real answer is as Kendall says, to vote for general party principles....I, personally, have never cared for the general approach to life, love, money and attitudes that the Republican leaders avow...so....


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: Mbo
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 07:01 PM

I miss the one I care for more than I miss New Orleans I love you, Miss New Orleans...


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: kendall
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 08:31 PM

Can you imagine what the rhetoric would be like in some of those other chat rooms? Sure we can disagree without wanting to kill each other. Your experiences have been different from mine thats all. I grew up during the depression, and if my father hadn't had a job on the WPA, we would have gone hungry. Did you know that before the New Deal, if a man was hurt on the job, he was fired? No workmans comp under the republicans. I still say they should officially adopt the motto "PULL UP THE LADDER NOW THAT I'M ABOARD."


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: GUEST,Murray MacLeod
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 09:59 PM

Well, well who'd a thunk such an innocent observation would provoke such an avalanche? I got to say, I ,along with millions of other Brits, indulge in a sport which is probaly incomprehensible to Americans, namely we like to wager on the outcome of political elections. You can only do this legally in Britain, of course, where bookmakers are legal. I have been doing this since 1964 when I was legally too young to bet, and may I say I have not made a losing wager in all the intervening years, and I have bet on all the American presidential elections as well as the British general elections.(I even got the last Labour victory right !).

So, people, I am not arguing the rights and wrongs, the wills and wonts, the whys and wherefores. I am telling you this : the American public is not going to elect George Bush as president, and I have put my money right beside my mouth.

Murray


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Subject: RE: Al Gore, next president
From: DougR
Date: 12 Oct 00 - 10:10 PM

Hey, great Murry! Good luck! Hope you didn't bet the farm though.

DougR


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