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Songs to sing with Children

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squid@netdor.com 27 Aug 97 - 09:22 PM
rechal 27 Aug 97 - 10:20 PM
John Nolan 27 Aug 97 - 11:30 PM
alison 27 Aug 97 - 11:35 PM
Jon W. 28 Aug 97 - 11:33 AM
Peter T. 28 Aug 97 - 12:34 PM
28 Aug 97 - 01:54 PM
rechal 28 Aug 97 - 02:12 PM
Joe Offer 28 Aug 97 - 03:19 PM
DrWord 28 Aug 97 - 03:30 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 28 Aug 97 - 06:40 PM
squid@netdor.com 28 Aug 97 - 06:50 PM
Raven-Skies 28 Aug 97 - 08:44 PM
dwditty 28 Aug 97 - 11:31 PM
Rosemary 29 Aug 97 - 01:48 AM
Shula 29 Aug 97 - 05:57 AM
Barry Finn 29 Aug 97 - 07:57 PM
Nathan (nsarvis@tenet.edu) 29 Aug 97 - 10:48 PM
Steve in Wisconsin 30 Aug 97 - 06:03 PM
jossephine 31 Aug 97 - 03:01 PM
Okie 31 Aug 97 - 10:32 PM
31 Aug 97 - 11:43 PM
Squid 01 Sep 97 - 12:08 AM
Joe Offer 01 Sep 97 - 05:08 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 02 Sep 97 - 07:44 PM
BK 03 Sep 97 - 12:24 AM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 03 Sep 97 - 10:02 AM
BBJ 03 Sep 97 - 12:06 PM
Jack 03 Sep 97 - 12:53 PM
rechal 03 Sep 97 - 02:40 PM
Peter T. 03 Sep 97 - 03:27 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 03 Sep 97 - 04:06 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 03 Sep 97 - 04:25 PM
Peter T. 03 Sep 97 - 05:40 PM
Jon W. 03 Sep 97 - 06:01 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 03 Sep 97 - 06:05 PM
Sharon 03 Sep 97 - 07:40 PM
rechal 03 Sep 97 - 08:12 PM
Squid 03 Sep 97 - 10:05 PM
Joe Offer 04 Sep 97 - 02:16 AM
Peter T. 04 Sep 97 - 11:06 AM
BK 05 Sep 97 - 12:03 AM
Jon W. 05 Sep 97 - 11:27 AM
Susan of California 06 Sep 97 - 12:29 PM
rechal 06 Sep 97 - 11:32 PM
Jack 09 Sep 97 - 03:47 PM
Joe Offer 09 Sep 97 - 05:38 PM
rechal 11 Sep 97 - 02:27 PM
rechal 11 Sep 97 - 02:34 PM
Bill D 11 Sep 97 - 03:11 PM
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Subject: Songs to sing with Children
From: squid@netdor.com
Date: 27 Aug 97 - 09:22 PM

Looking for new songs to sing to (and with) my kids. I have searched and browsed through digital traditions and plucked out many songs we love. Many of the songs I learned in 3rd and 4th grade music class are favorites, such as Erie Canal, Waltzing Matilda, Clemintine, and Grandfathers Clock. But I'm sure that I am missing out on lots of great songs. We would like very much to learn some new songs. Please recommend your favorites. We have migrated into pop/rock, a little and like to sing Edmund Fitzgerald, Boy Named Sue, and Gimmie Three Steps, to name a few. Here's hoping y'all can come up with some suggestions.

Chris (Dada), Max and Ella Roehm Florida


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: rechal
Date: 27 Aug 97 - 10:20 PM

There was a great thread going here a week or so again called "Songs for Scouts," which was about singing with kids. Type "scout" in the box by "search threads" and set your filter to 7 days.

Another thread to check would be "Family Singalongs." Have fun!


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: John Nolan
Date: 27 Aug 97 - 11:30 PM

There's also the likes of "You'll get a belt from yer da," and "The Craw killed the Pussy-o," if you think your kids should have an all-round musical education.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: alison
Date: 27 Aug 97 - 11:35 PM

hi

"You'll get a belt from yer da.", is probably in the database under the title "Liverpool lullabye".

Slainte

Alison


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Jon W.
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 11:33 AM

See my Fly paper thread. If anyone is interested in the tune for that song, email me at jdwhitney@wpmail.code3.com and I'll try and get it into MIDI and/or ABC format in the next few days.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 12:34 PM

If you want a few British songs, you might try "http://ferret.lmh.ox.ac.uk/~roney/kidsongs.html".... This includes (but alas with no chords) the immortal "mouse who lived in a windmill" (a kid's favourite).

Yours, Peter


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From:
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 01:54 PM

I haven't checked the db, but the tune "Be Kind To Your Parents" by Tom Paxton ... yes it must've been there. "The Cat Came Back" ... you mention your own 3d, 4th grade memories, but not your kids ages. For younger kids, the Canadian entertainer Raffi does scads of traditional stuff, and good originals like "Baby Beluga" ... regards, Dennis Wood


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: rechal
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 02:12 PM

Sandy and Caroline Paton have a record (or used to) on Folkways called "I've Got a Song." It's terrific.

Sharon, Lois & Bram are a Canadian trio whose first two albums were especially good. I think the first one might have been called "One Elephant, Deux Eléphants."

"Free to be you and me" was a television special put together by Marlo Thomas in the 70s. Don't know if the record or songbook is still available, but they had charming songs and stories read and sung by people like Alan Alda, Rosie Grier, Carol Channing, Dan Smothers, and more.

Barry Louis Polisar is a children's entertainer who writes songs with titles like "Never Cook Your Sister In a Frying Pan," "You Can't Say Sssppplllbbbhhhh on the Radio," "Sally Eats Shoelaces, Straw and String," and "They Said Eat the Broccoli."

I don't know how many, if any, of these are still available, but they're pretty terrific. You might also try your local library for historical records such as Leadbelly singing with children, Ella Jenkins, Malvina Reynolds, and so on.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 03:19 PM

My kids have always loved the songs from Sesame Street. Even my 24-yr-old punk rocker still sings 'em. Tom Chapin has some wonderful CD's of original stuff, and somebody already mentioned Tom Paxton. I haven't heard Ella Jenkins myself, but there are scads of Ella Jenkins CD's that have been reissued recently.
My favorite children's recordings are the songs that have withstood the test of time. There are wonderful recordings of more traditional children's songs from Priscilla Herdman, John McCutcheon, Cathy Fink & Marcy Marxer, and Fred Penner.
I discovered Fred Penner in the 99-cent bin at the Tower Outlet. He has TWO recordings of "The Cat Came Back," for a grand total of about eleventy-seven verses.

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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: DrWord
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 03:30 PM

Heather Bishop "Belly button, belly button" Charlotte Diamond "Ten Carrot Diamond" is one recording Penner does the old tune "It went bop when it stopped ... " And yes!!! the Henson &crew classics!!! Start a thread? :) dennis


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 06:40 PM

Rare Bog. Me Father's Old Sou'wester False Knight On The Road My Uncle Walter Dances With Bears I'm My Own Grampa Logdriver's Waltz

In addition, Prince Edward Island folksinger Terese Doyle has a tape out -- I have the tape, don't know about CD's -- entitled "Dance To Your Daddy: A Child's Introduction To Celtic Music." Although she can write a decent song herself all of the songs are traditional on this one. (One is in French) The fiddler on the tape is the eccentric and amusing Oliver Schroer, he of the band The Stewed Tomatoes, and there are various guest singers including Modabo and Nancy White.

Bedlam Records, RR #3 Belfast, Prince Edward Island, Canada C0A 1A0, telephone and fax 902 838 2973. Tape is Bedlam TDCA005 although I suspect that the above address is her home so if you called you will probably get her.

It is quite enjoyable for adults too.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: squid@netdor.com
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 06:50 PM

Thanks for all of the replies, exactly what I wanted. Scores (pun intended) of new songs for us. Kids ages are 7 and 9 since somebody asked. One of the replies made me think about the Schoolhouse Rock songs that aired on ABC about 20 years ago. I know they made somewhat of a comeback and even some alternative rock band recorded them. I wonder if they are in the database here. I will check now. If not, anybody have those lyrics?

squid


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Raven-Skies
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 08:44 PM

I always liked "UNICORNS (Green Alligators)" which can be found in the database under that name. You may already have plucked that one out, though.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: dwditty
Date: 28 Aug 97 - 11:31 PM

Check out Dave Van Ronk's version of Peter and the Wolf. Believe it or not, the entire piece is done with a jug band. Very tasty. Side 2 (or the rest of the CD) is a set of songs including Teddy Bears' Picinic, Swinging on a Star, Mairsy Doats, etc. My kids have loved the songs. I believe it is Alcazar label out of Vermont.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Rosemary
Date: 29 Aug 97 - 01:48 AM

Sorry if I'm a little late for this thread but I just joined. There is a fantastic collection in book form called "Animal Folk Songs for Children---Traditional American Songs" by Ruth Crawford Seeger. (Linnet Books, Shoestring Press, ISBN 0-208-02364-X) This collection was originally published in 1950 but was reprinted by Linnet in 1993. The great thing about this book is that tapes are also available. The tapes themselves are very good, with the songs treated as legitimate music rather than cutesy versions for kids.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Shula
Date: 29 Aug 97 - 05:57 AM

A few more suggestions:

"The Teddy Bear's Picnic," "The Happy Wanderer," "The Marvelous Toy," -- all at this website!

Rounds: "White Coral Bells," "Dona Nobis Pachem" (or "Yasem Lanu Shalom", if you prefer Hebrew), "Kookaburra," "The Snap, Crackle Pop (Rice Krispies) Song."

Nonsense songs: e.g., The Huma-huma-nuka-nuka appawaha Song about a small Hawaiian fish (I believe), Boom, Boom Diddum, Diddum, Mairzy Doats, which has a second verse about whales, eels, seals, fish, oysters and squid, ("A squiddley-doysters too...").

Movies: songs from Hans Christian Anderson ("The Ugly Duckling," "Inchworm," "Thumbelina," etc.), Mary Poppins, the older Disney cartoon features. What about songs besides the obvious O.T.R. from The Wizard of Oz? Check out pre-1970's musicals, and operettas like those of Gilbert & Sullivan to broaden young tastes before adolescence sets in. Rent the movie version of Pirates Of Penzance, starring Linda Ronstadt (the U.K., NOT the Aussie. version, which is too racy for kids) and see if any of the music appeals to your children.

Folk-Rock: James Taylor's "Sweet Baby James" and "You Can Close Your Eyes"; "Joy To The World" (a.k.a.: "Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog").

Albums: Peter, Paul, and MOMMY, any of Burl Ives recordings for children. Free To Be You and ME, mentioned by rechal, is an excellent P.C. collection; "I'm Being Swallowed by a Boa Constrictor", from this album, is great giggling fun to act out!

Book of Lyrics: Rise Up Singing, The Group Singing Songbook, by Peter Blood and Annie Patterson, has words and chords to 1200 songs, many of them suitable for children, in a deceptively small, child-friendly, paperback volume.

Some personal favourites: "Wynken, Blynken and Nod," "Cockles and Mussels," and "Mockingbird."

Hope this is some help.

Shula


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Barry Finn
Date: 29 Aug 97 - 07:57 PM

Allen Sherman's my son the folk singer (my intro in the 50's) was a good one for kids, if I remember right. "The Barefoot Boy With Boots On" & "Why Paddy's Not At Work Today" Barry


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Nathan (nsarvis@tenet.edu)
Date: 29 Aug 97 - 10:48 PM

Mike and Peggy Seeger have a two-CD set "American Folk Songs for Children" with their renditions of the songs from their mother's book. Also check out Trout Fishing In America--that's the group, I forget the name of their children's album; it includes "The Cat Came Back," "Pico de Gallo" and lots of other gems. Also, Harvey Reid's "Steel Driving Man" is a great recording of folk songs, most of which are appropriate for children.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Steve in Wisconsin
Date: 30 Aug 97 - 06:03 PM

I have to add another plug for Tom Chapin's "family stuff." In particular, check out "State Laughs" and "long Way Home." These are fairly easy to pick up and the kids love 'em. I do the above with my 4th graders and have also done "Billy the Squid" (In the Pink Coral Lounge-that's a sand bar...a beautiful mullusk, a real living dollusk, her name was Clamity Jane..."). :-)

Don't forget Bill Staines' "All God's Critters". Also, check out Red Grammer's kid's stuff.

Cheers,

Steve


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: jossephine
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 03:01 PM

A wonderful collection of Irish children's songs (in English) can be found on Eithne Ni hUallachain and Len Graham's albulm titled "When I was young" 1996. They also released an earlier collection of children's songs in Irish.

Highly recommended. Details available if you need.

Happy singing.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Okie
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 10:32 PM

Trout Fishing in America and Valdy both are fine children;s performers. Caught them both at the Threadgill Theatre at the the Kerrville Folk Festival. Woody Guthrie also wrote many songs for children including Little Arlo for his son.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From:
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 11:43 PM

Squid -- The songs from "Schoolhouse Rock" have been released on CD. There are several, I think; I have "Grammar Rock" which was my favorite when I was a kid. Includes "Lolly Lolly Get Your Adverbs Here," "Conjunction Junction" and all those other parts of speech too.

I'm in Virginia visiting my parents at the moment, and don't have access to my CD, but I know it has the lyrics on it. Let me know if you'd like to buy the CD or if there's one or two songsin particular you'd like me to post.

Glad to see your original post garnered such an enthusiastic response.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Squid
Date: 01 Sep 97 - 12:08 AM

I would have liked to respond personally to the sender of the previous message in this thread only it doesn't say who posted the message time stamped 31-Aug-97 - 11:43 PM . Additionally, many of the other messages dont have the email address. Is that Mudcat policy?

I would like ALL the lyrics to "Schoolhouse Rock". Yes, I am interested in buying the CD, are you saying you want to sell it?

I am also very pleased with the number and quality of the responses my request generated. This is a great group. I am certainly no expert on music but I hope to be able to contribute.

Sq.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Sep 97 - 05:08 PM

Hi, Squid - You can find the Schoolhouse Rock CD's at www.cdnow.com. I'd like to find another, smaller, more politically correct company to recommend, but I haven't found anyone with a wider selection and quicker service. The prices are cheaper at BMG Compact Disc Club, and you can't get better advice or friendlier people than you'll find at Folk-Legacy. But CDNow is where you'll find "Schoolhouse Rock."

Sometimes, people forget to put their name in the "from" box in messages in this forum. If they register as members, the box is filled in automatically, and they also can send and receive private messages, and even chat. Some people put their e-mail addresses in messages if they want an e-mail reply. You see a lot of that in newsgroups - people want an e-mail reply because they don't check the newsgroup very often. I suppose I usually send an e-mail reponse if that's what's requested, but I also usually post a public response. I think responding only by e-mail detracts from the advantage of an open forum like this. There's an interesting dynamic that goes on here - in the process of sharing information, we become friends.
Joe-Offer@msn.com


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 07:44 PM

Another two that come to mind are that one about the lady sailing down the Nile on the back of a crocodile, and the one that goes:

Don't go in the lions' cage tonight, mother dear, For the lions are ferocious and they bite, mother dear, And if they take a hairy fit, they will tear you all to bits, So please don't go in the lions' cage tonight, mother dear.

I've often wondered if they have been recorded by anyone. My mother used to sing them to me and swore she had learned them out of a songbook, not made them up.

Speaking of singing to children, did anyone read the recent article, I think in the NYTimes, that says children are more likely to learn to sing themselves if sung to while still babies? I've always maintained this and am pleased to see that I have been vindicated by modern science.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: BK
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 12:24 AM

I know I've heard the "don't go in the lion's cage" recorded by someone., probably on an old LP, in my eclectic mish-mash, (and, not fully unpacked) collection of recordings. If I ever get the time I can try to find it...

A lot of great responses to this thread. There is a very cute little number called "What Happenned to the Dinosaurs?" by Paul Strausman. (it mentions dimeterodon along w/the dinosaurs - tehnically an error; it was a "mamal-like" reptile, not a dinosaur - a minor problem, but some of us would like the currently fashionable "dino-mania" to be accurate) Ithink its been recorded on several kid-folk albums. I know I have it on a little tape dated 1984, entitled "All Together" by "musical friends," along w/some other really neat stuff, from a child-oriented recording company called "A Gentle Wind," Box 3103, Albany New York, 12203. (this adrress is from then; who knows by now if they still exist?)

cheers, bk


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 10:02 AM

As I mentioned on the Oranges and Lemons thread, I believe that most if not all of the rhymes in Mother Goose have tunes to them. My mother used to sing almost all of them to me. She could also sing some of the nonsense poems in Alice In Wonderland and Through The Looking Glass. "You Are Old, Father William" is a good song for kids. There must surely be recordings somewhere.

I used to like My Grandfather's Clock when I was a child.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: BBJ
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 12:06 PM

I used to have "Don't Go In The Lion's Cage Tonight" on a Max Morath album, a collection of piano rags.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Jack
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 12:53 PM

My freind Julie who teaches music in elementary school just bought the entire Schoolhouse Rock boxed set, thinking they would have the lyrics included in the liner notes. Au Contraire! The liner notes are strictly the history of Schoolhouse Rock, and where to send the $20 or so extra dollars you have to spend to get the words to the songs. What a jip!

Jack


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Subject: ADD: Apples and Bananas
From: rechal
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 02:40 PM

Squid --

That was my anonymous post the evening of August 31. I forgot that my stepfather's computer doesn't have my membership cookie.

In response to Jack -- I could just about swear that the lyrics are on my CD. I'll check when I get home tonight (if I get home--looks like all hell broke loose while I was gone).

Does anybody remember "I'm bringing home a baby bumblebee?" It was my favorite song when I was five.

And if anybody, anywhere, knows how to get their hands on the Alice In Wonderland poems-set-to-music thing, please let me know. They're my favorite books, and I already have most of the poems committed to memory.

Disney did an Alice in Wonderland movie--perhaps the songs originated there?

There's also the "Apples and Bananas" vowel song --

APPLES AND BANANAS

I like to eat
Eat, eat, eat
I like to eat
Apples and bananas
(Each verse 2X)

A lake to ate
Ate, ate, ate
A lake to ate
Ay-pples and bay-nay-nays

E leek to eat
Eat, eat, eat
E leek to eat
Ee-pples and beneenies

(And so on for i, o, u)

Final verse:

Now we are through
Through, through, through
Now we are through
With a-e-i-love you.


Awwwwwww......

Skinnamarink?


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 03:27 PM

Dear Rechal, was that a modest plea for Skinnamarink? I have both words and music. A model for the use of diminished chords! Yours, Peter


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 04:06 PM

Just listened to the new Chris Foster tape Sting In The Tail.

There are two songs on it excellent for younger kids: Herring's Head, listed as traditional, and The Neighbour's Cat, written by L. Rosselson, whoever that might be.

As to the Alice poems set to music, I don't know if they came from Disney but I suspect my mother knew them before the movie came out. I can still sing "You Are Old, Father William", but have forgotten "Speak Roughly To Your Little Boy" and "' 'Tis the Voice of the Lobster".

I'll ask her.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 04:25 PM

I should have also mentioned The Darby Ram, which is on the aforesaid tape although any number of people have done it. A close relative of this song is When I Was A Little Boy, which I heard sung by Roy Harris. They are both in the category of "liar's songs".


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Peter T.
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 05:40 PM

No, God, no, never Disney. You have to ask? From the people who gave us the Little Mermaid with a happy ending??? A HAPPY ENDING????? And the desecration of The Jungle Books and Winnie-the-Pooh, and (where would I begin) the settling of North America, the natural ecology of Africa, Greek mythology, the Arabian nights, what else is left?! Oh yes, sure possibly, famous Disney tunes: Boogie with me Sweet Daddy William? Eat Me, Drink Me, Wink Me Honey? Twas Brilliant and the Slimy Things Did Gyrate and Shimmy in the Dark Wood? (Words too too Difficult you know). Disney!!! it is to chortle. Yours, Peter


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Jon W.
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 06:01 PM

Rechal, I've seen the Baby Bumblebee song sung by my daughter (I forget which one) within the last year or so. It was cute and funny too. Do you need the lyrics? If so, I'll make an effort to get them posted. I don't have them memorized. But I do remember it ending up with the bumble bee smashed.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 06:05 PM

The song about Bringing Home A Baby Bumblebee was done on one of the Bugs Bunny or Looney Tunes episodes. As I recall, it was stork delivering a baby who sang it.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Sharon
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 07:40 PM

One of the Song Sisters tapes, they're from Michigan, has it on it


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: rechal
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 08:12 PM

Thank you, gentle people for all the kind offers of lyrics. I know the lyrics to Skinnamarink and Bumblebee; guess I just felt like starting an impromptu singalong.

Peter, you are refreshingly cynical.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Squid
Date: 03 Sep 97 - 10:05 PM

I think Robert Fulgham wrote an essay about singing to children. He tells about how he visits a Kindergarten and asks the kids to raise their hands if they can sing. All do. He goes to a high school and asks the same question. Very few hands. Do children lose the ability to sing somewhere between age 5 and 15? 'Course not. They are not encouraged to sing and they think that they have to have perfect pitch to be able to sing. Wish I could quote chapter and verse, but it was one of his collections of essays.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 02:16 AM

Hey, Rechal, can you post the lyrics for "Skinnamarink" for us? That's one I haven't heard. And I dutifully checked the database, and they're not there.
Say, I think we ought to sing a chorus or two of "It's a Small World After All" to get Peter's goat. I dunno - there are lots of Disney songs I've liked over the years (but "small world" ain't one of 'em).
Sure would like those Skinnamarink lyrics....
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Peter T.
Date: 04 Sep 97 - 11:06 AM

Happy to atone for my outburst (tomorrow, if I can find the music) with Skinnamarink. I also liked the old Disney songs (who can resist Cruella de Ville?), and I have no quarrel with the deft lyrics/music of most of the songs in Aladdin, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast. They sort of create a space for themselves: it is bastardization of the stories that bothers me, and the sad knowledge that in spite of the propaganda no child I know has ever been prompted to go back to the originals. They are highly crafted, commercial junk. I guess it is not new: is there anybody out there, except for Italian children, who even knows that Pinocchio is a beautiful original story? On the other hand, perhaps there has been a cultural shift for which Disney is not entirely to blame (try capital for a start). There is a sense in early Disney that the stories have an integrity that the filmakers are captive to, because film is new, and stories are old. There was a capacity, not a great one, for dealing with death and sadness as an integral part of children's stories. As we move further into today, the stories become secondary, and the movie event primary. You stop getting a sense that the movie is a retelling of the story: because no one has any memory left of the original story, because no one is telling it any more until the movie comes out. You also notice that the songs become performances and stop being songs. End of gripe. Sorry to hijack the thread. I've stopped now.

Yours, Peter


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: BK
Date: 05 Sep 97 - 12:03 AM

Peter T - keep on griping; you're right, sad to say...

Great to see the many responses here - a friend and I are trying to sort out vague plans we have for getting back into kid's songs, after too many years of being toooo busy and too adult (very nominally, in my case) to sing very often specifically for kids. (too many to's!! maybe we can make a song out of that....) Did somebody metion the sung version of "Winken, Blinken and Nod?" I was recently told that it was on an albumn by a famous pop group; I don't know abt that but I learned it from the singing of a family folk group that performed frequently near Albany, NY, at the Cafe' Entre Nu (probably spelled that wrong!!) in the 60's. I bought a guitar from the gal in the group. still have it.

I noticed a lot of folks mentioned Tom Paxton's "Marvellous Toy," though not always by that name - I still do that, and sang it to a bunch of younger kids the other day at church, who responded w/the true mark of acceptance by asking me to sing it again, several times... You can really have fun with it, and involve them by hamming up, (and slowing down), the chorus, and encouraging them to sing along... it can be a great break-the-ice, get-them-started song that way (experiment with it! it's fun, even by yourself => buzzzzzzz the Z in "zip," POP! the "bop, " Rrrrrrrrrroll the R's in "whirr;" you get the picture....)

I also still do the Unicorn Song, and it too really goes over well; also "hi, diddle, diddle." Recently learned "Coulters' Candy" - a more or less understandable version of the words, rather than heavy brogue - took me years to find - but I think it's more for the adults - esp parents; but that's ok too...

Somehow I don't think I'd try "Liverpool Lullaby" with kids; I like it, but even some adults I know think it's a bit harsh.

cheers, bk


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Jon W.
Date: 05 Sep 97 - 11:27 AM

One of the funniest things I ever saw in my life was when I went with my wife to a reunion concert of her old college a-cappella choir. Afterwards they had a little party and a guy got up and did this rhythmic chant - no real melody to it but great for doing with kids. Its a call and response type thing with each line repeated by the "chorus" after the leader says it.

(first get a rocking, hand clapping rhythm going)

I say a BOOM chicka boom
I say a BOOM chicka boom
I say a Boom chicka rocka chicka rocka chicka boom
Oh yeah...
Uh huh...
All right.

Then you repeat several times, each time with a different twist on it which the leader calls out before beginning--faster, slower, higher, lower, happier, sadder, etc. On "sadder" the last three lines are: "Oh no, unh uhh, all wrong."


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Susan of California
Date: 06 Sep 97 - 12:29 PM

One of my favorites is a Tom Chapin song called (I think) "Flowers are Red" It's about a kid who sees the world in all it's colors who has a stupid teacher who makes him/her paint flowers red, w/green leaves. Makes me cry, and it has started conversations with the kids about questioning "authority". Another song I love is by John McCuthceon (sp?) I think called "Someon's Knockin' at My Door". Does anybody know if it's available on any of his cd's? I've been looking on and off for about the past 10 years.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: rechal
Date: 06 Sep 97 - 11:32 PM

Susan: "Flowers are red" is by Harry Chapin. It's a great song.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Jack
Date: 09 Sep 97 - 03:47 PM

I always liked progressive call and response songs we sang as kids.

The one we did all the time on on the bus during field trips was called Flea (sic)

Responses mirror the calls exactly

1. Flea

2. Flea Fly

3. Flea fly flo-oh

4. Feasta

5. Kumala-Kumala-Kumala-Feasta

6. No-No-Nona-Taveesta

7. Eenee-meenee-desameenee-oowah-shawanameenee-Eenee-meenee-desameenee-oowah-shoowah..

I think there are other calls that get more complicated, anyone know any?

Jack


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Joe Offer
Date: 09 Sep 97 - 05:38 PM

Are you sure you have the spelling right on that one, Jack? [grin]
-

Actually, I think it's exactly the way I've seen it printed before. Good job!
-Joe Offer-

Susan of California, John McCutcheon's URL is www.folkmusic.com. (gee, wouldn't that be a good URL for Digital Tradition?) Check there to find out about your song - although I don't recall it being on any of the McCutcheon albums I have.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: rechal
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 02:27 PM

The version I learned of that call/response song when I was a kid went:

Vee.

Vee vye.

Vee vye voh.

Vista.

Oh, no no, no not da vista.

Essa-meeny salla-meeny ooh walla-walla-meeny.
Essa-meeny salla-meeny ooh walla-wah.

EEESH-biddley otten-dotten bo-bo be-deeten-dotten.
EEESH-biddley otten-dotten wah-dotten-CHEW.

Then I heard this version of it on the 2nd Sharon, Lois and Bram record:

Flea.

Flea fly.

Flea fly mosquito.

Oh, no no, no more mosquito.

Itchy, itchy, scratchy, scratchy, ooh I got one down my backy.

Beat that big bad bug with the bug spray.
Tchhhhhhhhhhh......


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: rechal
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 02:34 PM

Does anybody else remember a song/game/tongue twister called Piccolomini?

It involved singing the word Piccolomini over and over again, faster and faster until you were "out" because you stumbled over Piccolomini. The tune seems like it should be familiar, but I can't think of what it might be.

Anyway, it's much more difficult than it sounds, because the lyric structure, even though it's just one word, is complex. i.e. the musical phrases are of varying lengths. So the "verses" look like this:

Piccolomini, piccolomini

Piccolomini, piccole!

Lomini piccolo

Mini piccolomini piccolomini pi!

Colomini piccolomini piccolo

Mini piccolomini.

Now that I have matured in years, I see what a lovely drinking song this would make.


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Subject: RE: Songs to sing with Children
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 03:11 PM

there is a family of 5,(3 kids), calling themselves "The Tune Mammals" who have made a couple of tapes with a LOT of neat songs (mostly written by themselves, I think). One is called 'too cute to spank'...I know someone who has them...I'll try to get an address, etc..


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