Origins: Oranges and Lemons (say the bells of...)

Subject: RE: Oranges and Lemons-Lyr addition and question
From:
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 07:17 PM

It must be Saint Clements Dane in the Strand, because it plays Oranges and Lemons from the steeple. I have no idea if there was ever a market in the area. It was Samuel Johnson's home parish for quite a while and his statue stands outside.

Aren't the lyrics in Mother Goose? I don't have a copy to hand but you mothers and fathers out there can check. That might be the making of another thread. My mother used to sing to me almost every rhyme in there (and in Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking Glass) which she had presumably learned from her mother, a Londoner. I wonder if anyone has ever recorded the whole set. She never did sing Old Grimes Is Dead and I've often wondered what the tune to it is.

Subject: RE: Oranges and Lemons-Lyr addition and question
From: Bert
Date: 02 Sep 97 - 12:18 PM

That seems pretty close to what I learned at school with the exception "I owe you five farthings". We were told that the tune was built from the sounds of the bells of each on the churches. So I assumed that it was the church at Old Bailey, not that I ever bother to find out if one exists. I am not sure whether St Clement's is St Clements Dane in the Strand or St Clement's of East Cheap. It's amazing how we accept these things as kids without thinking about them.

Then there is the game that is played to that tune which has the ending

Here comes the candle to light you to bed
and here comes the chopper to chop of your head

Chip, Chop, Chip, Chop, the last man's head.

I am sure that some one will come up with more accurate information.

TTFN, Bert.

Subject: ADD Version: Oranges and Lemons^^
From: RS
Date: 31 Aug 97 - 02:45 PM

Here is the version I know of Oranges and Lemons, which is quite different from the one in the database:

ORANGES AND LEMONS

Oranges and lemons
Say the bells of St. Clements

I'll give you five farthings
Say the bells of St. Martin's

When will you pay me
Say the bells of Old Bailey

When I grow rich
Say the bells of Shoreditch

When will that be
Say the bells of Stepney

I do not know
Says the great bell of Bow
^^

These words are from memory, I don't know where I learned them or if they are the correct spellings.

My question is: does anyone know whether the churches listed, have any relationship to the words? For example, Old Bailey (I believe) is a court, so "When will you pay me" would relate to that. Perhaps St. Clements is (or used to be) a fruit growing region, or a market???

Thanks to all -