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Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???

DigiTrad:
RAGLAN ROAD


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(origins) Origins: Sinead O'Connor--Raglan Road (6)
(origins) Analysis of Raglan Road (129) (closed)


Mikey joe 03 Nov 00 - 11:04 AM
mg 03 Nov 00 - 11:22 AM
Musicman 03 Nov 00 - 12:08 PM
GUEST,Dave [ Zander ] 03 Nov 00 - 01:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Nov 00 - 01:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Nov 00 - 01:51 PM
GUEST,Mikey Joe 03 Nov 00 - 02:45 PM
mike putt 03 Nov 00 - 02:50 PM
Susanne (skw) 03 Nov 00 - 07:37 PM
GUEST,jaze 03 Nov 00 - 10:33 PM
GUEST,Tom Munnelly 04 Nov 00 - 07:44 AM
The Shambles 04 Nov 00 - 10:18 AM
The Shambles 04 Nov 00 - 10:23 AM
GUEST,Ewan McVicar 04 Nov 00 - 12:47 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Nov 00 - 01:26 PM
GUEST,liam 01 Mar 03 - 09:56 PM
GUEST,Geordie 04 Mar 03 - 07:41 AM
GUEST,Roger Bruce Furst 04 Sep 04 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,BHS 09 Aug 06 - 05:23 PM
An Buachaill Caol Dubh 10 Aug 06 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,HSA 11 Aug 06 - 07:53 AM
GUEST 11 Aug 06 - 08:13 AM
GUEST,JTT 11 Aug 06 - 06:51 PM
IrishDave 30 Aug 06 - 04:26 PM
Herga Kitty 30 Aug 06 - 04:36 PM
IrishDave 30 Aug 06 - 04:46 PM
Herga Kitty 30 Aug 06 - 05:44 PM
Ljung 29 Dec 06 - 01:21 AM
Peace 29 Dec 06 - 01:22 AM
GUEST,the twangman 29 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM
GUEST,Bill H 10 Feb 07 - 10:58 PM
Jim Lad 11 Feb 07 - 04:35 AM
Jim Lad 11 Feb 07 - 04:02 PM
GUEST 11 Feb 07 - 04:51 PM
Jim Lad 11 Feb 07 - 05:16 PM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 11 Feb 07 - 07:13 PM
GUEST,meself 12 Feb 07 - 01:30 PM
Jim Lad 13 Feb 07 - 01:45 AM
GUEST,meself 13 Feb 07 - 08:42 AM
Jim Lad 14 Feb 07 - 01:00 AM
GUEST,meself 14 Feb 07 - 01:09 AM
Jim Lad 14 Feb 07 - 01:44 AM
Jim Lad 14 Feb 07 - 01:49 AM
GUEST,meself 14 Feb 07 - 01:58 AM
Jim Lad 14 Feb 07 - 02:02 AM
GUEST,meself 14 Feb 07 - 02:10 AM
Jim Lad 14 Feb 07 - 02:12 AM
GUEST,Quinny 19 Feb 07 - 11:30 PM
Jim Lad 19 Feb 07 - 11:35 PM
GUEST,meself 20 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM
Jim Lad 20 Feb 07 - 05:07 PM
GUEST,meself 20 Feb 07 - 05:11 PM
Jim Lad 20 Feb 07 - 06:14 PM
GUEST,meself 20 Feb 07 - 06:47 PM
GUEST,Stef 10 May 07 - 12:59 PM
Jim Lad 10 May 07 - 01:49 PM
GUEST,Corkie 13 May 07 - 07:20 AM
Jim Lad 13 May 07 - 07:10 PM
BUTTS 13 May 07 - 08:00 PM
Jim Lad 13 May 07 - 08:07 PM
Jim Lad 13 May 07 - 08:08 PM
Effsee 13 May 07 - 09:05 PM
Jim Lad 13 May 07 - 11:00 PM
GUEST,Desi C 19 Apr 12 - 11:43 AM
Arthur_itus 20 Apr 12 - 06:16 AM
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Big Al Whittle 20 Apr 12 - 09:11 AM
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Subject: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Mikey joe
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:04 AM

Can anyone tell me who wrote the tune to Raglan Road? I know paddy kavanagh wrote the words. Cheers all

Mj


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: mg
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 11:22 AM

can't tell you. But the way it sounds to me (a beautiful tune) it sounds exactly like the same tune as that silly song about the razor blade was Japanese made and the rope was Belfast linen. So I suspect it is old.

mg


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Musicman
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 12:08 PM

From an Irish songbook I have:

"Patrick Kavanagh's words set to 'Fainne Geal an Lae'(the dawning of the day)."

no dates given....


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Dave [ Zander ]
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:42 PM

It is in fact the traditional air ' Fainne Gael an Lae ' The Dawning of the Day.

Regards, Dave


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:49 PM

Tunes like that typically get written down a long time after they've been made up, and not by the same person.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 01:51 PM

But it'd be intersting to know who thought of bringing the tune and the words together.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Mikey Joe
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 02:45 PM

Good stuff

I agree completely with you guys, and it is the proof I need to settle a bet..

Cheers

Mj


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: mike putt
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 02:50 PM

I have it somewhere that Patrick Kavanagh approached Luke Kelly with the song but I dont know wether the tune was already with it then or if it was Luke put the tune to it


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 07:37 PM

Both Ewan McVicar and Arthur Johnstone claim it was Luke Kelly who married the tune to the words. Luke's own account seems to contradict this:
[1994:] Luke told the following story in an interview in 1980: 'I was sitting in a pub in Dublin, The Bailey, and as you know in the old days - it's changed a bit now - it was known as a literary pub, an artistic pub. I happened to be sitting there in the same company with Patrick Kavanagh and one or two other poets, and someone asked him to recite a poem, which he did, and then someone asked me to sing a song which I did. Being in the presence of the great man I was very nervous. Then he leaned over to me and said in that sepulchral voice of his - he could hardly get his voice out, he was very old ... it was just the year before he died - and he said 'You should sing my song,' and I said 'What's that, Mr Kavanagh?' and he said 'Raglan Road''. So he gave me permission. I got permission from the man himself.' (Geraghty, Luke Kelly 38f)
If Kavanagh talked of his 'song', it is reasonable to assume it had a tune already. Perhaps it was a different one originally? But wouldn't Luke have mentioned it if he put a different tune to it?


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,jaze
Date: 03 Nov 00 - 10:33 PM

Don't know who wrote the tune, but has anyone heard Joan Osborne's version on the Chieftan's "Tears Of Stone"? I've been hooked on that song for weeks now!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Tom Munnelly
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 07:44 AM

There is a recording of Kavanagh himself singing 'Raglan Road' in the RTE Radio archive. Proof enough that he conceived his verses as a song. The line endings 'at the dawning of the day' are also proof of the air he had in mind. Not much of a singer, but he never claimed to be one. But what a poet.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 10:18 AM

Raglan Road. The words from the DT.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: The Shambles
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 10:23 AM

The tune of course, is there too.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 12:47 PM

Great, another bit of the puzzle remade. I cannot even recall who told me that Luke had put the tune to what was certainly presented in the books in them days as a pome rather than as a song.

Andy Hunter also wrote a fine set of words to the same pipe tune, not knowing of Raglan Road at the time.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 00 - 01:26 PM

So it was Kavanaugh all along...The Mudcat scores once again!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,liam
Date: 01 Mar 03 - 09:56 PM

kavanagh had to have concieved that "raglan road" was to be sung to the tune of dawning of the day. firstly, the rhythym and number of syllables per line are nearly perfectly fitted to fáinne an lae, and kavanagh mentions dawing of the day twice on the poem. there is also evidence that kavanagh sung the song long before luke kelly ever did and reports say that after hearing kelly sing one day, kavanagh asked kelly to sing "my song" (refer to original discussion about on raglan road


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Geordie
Date: 04 Mar 03 - 07:41 AM

I agree about the Joan Osborne version. It is fabulous. Are all of the words original or were some bits and pieces found elsewhere ? I only ask because there is a familiarity about the whole thing. But then it is probably just wonderful songwriting. A grand song indeed.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Roger Bruce Furst
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 10:46 AM

The Dubliners also used the melody as a backdrop for the recitation of a Patrick Pearse speech which they called "The Rebel"


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,BHS
Date: 09 Aug 06 - 05:23 PM

The Following comes from vincent peter's wonderful website

On Raglan Road
The Dawning Of The Day

The confusion caused by the two titles of this song can be traced back to the different previous history of the tune on one hand and the words on the other.

The tune, known as Fainne Gael an Lae, strictly meaning The Bright Ring of Day, probably originates from the seventeenth century blind Sligo harpist Thomas O'Connellan. In 1847 Edward Walsh scored an eighteenth century poem to this air and the song Fainne Gael an Lae, by then translated as The Dawning of the Day, was born. The popularity of this song rocketed when a masterly interpretation by the famous Irish-American tenor John McCormack, of the The Dawning of the Day was used in the 1937 film Wings of the Morning.
O'Connellan's air inspired not only Edward Walsh, but also Thomas Moore, when he sought music for The Minstrel Boy, as well as the author of The Ballad of William Bloat, Raymond Calvert.
In 1909, to make thing even more complicated, Cicely Fox Smith published a poem entitled At the Dawning of the Day. Apart from some phrases this poem has little to do with our subject, although it is not entirely unthinkable that Patrick Kavanagh at least knew this poem.

Most likely with knowledge of Walsh's song The Dawning of the Day and Smith's poem At the Dawning of the Day Patrick Kavanagh wrote a poem entitled Dark Haired Myriam Ran Away. This poem, which was published in 1946, seemingly referred to an unrequited love of Patrick Kavanagh. The words however don't give a clue about her name and like a true gentlemen he never consigned the lady's identity.

Kavanagh's poem led a forlorn existence on dark bookshelves until Patrick Kavanagh and Luke Kelly of The Dubliners, at that time novices in the music scene, treated each other with their talents during a joyful pub session somewhere in the 1960's.
The exact course of this gathering is vague. Some assume that Kavanagh recited his poem Dark Haired Myriam Ran Away and that Kelly set it to O'Connellan's air. Others, among them Luke Kelly himself, state that Kavanagh already had set the poem to the air. Anyway, Patrick was impressed by the musical talents of Luke Kelly and he gave him permission to use the song. For some reasons The Dubliners didn't use the original title of the poem and because there was already a song entitled The Dawning of the Day they came up with On Raglan Road.



hope this answeres the Question


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 10 Aug 06 - 12:11 PM

Can't add much to the above, except that the set of words beginning

"One morning early, as I roved out
By the margin of Lough Leane..."

is a translation/version of the Irish "Fainne Gael an La

"Ar maidin moch do goes a mhath
Ar bruach Lough a Leine

(Sorry, memory fails here)

I don't think this was the set recorded by McCormack, but rather:

"One morning fair, as I walked forth
Where Leane's dark waters flow,
When summer bid the groves be green,
The lamp of light to glow;
As on by bower and town and tower
And wide-spread filds I stray,
I met a maid in the greenwood shade,
At the Dawning of the Day"

In the 1930s and 1940s every schoolchild in the Republic knew the air, at least, and maybe the Irish words. That P.K. intended his words to be sung to this air seems incontestable.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,HSA
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 07:53 AM

"This poem, which was published in 1946, seemingly referred to an unrequited love of Patrick Kavanagh. The words however don't give a clue about her name and like a true gentlemen he never consigned the lady's identity."

The identity of the lady may not be well publicised BUT I did come across this once on my internet travels:

http://www.hoganstand.com/general/identity/extras/gaels/stories/hildaomalley.htm


Helen


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 08:13 AM

This Thread had me reading through some of the other Threads on the subject. The Thread Analysis of Raglan Road is one of Mudcats best, an education.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 11 Aug 06 - 06:51 PM

Nothing unrequited about it.

Kavanagh himself said that the poem was to the air of Fáinne Gheal an Lae.

(Fáinne an Lae, literally the Ring of the Day, means dawn in Irish, referencing the brilliant ring on the horizon that is the precursor of sunrise. Geal (gheal when séibhithe for agreement with the feminine noun fáinne) means bright.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: IrishDave
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:26 PM

The story goes, P Kavanagh was drinking in the Baggot Inn in Dublin and called Luke Kelly over. He began to sing the poem Raglan Road to him in a ditsy, quite non descript Irish air, knowing Kelly was a singer. Kelly returned the next day (yes the next day, everyone famous drank there at the time including Brendan Behan)with the air and fine performance we all know today, and Raglan Road was born. Incidentally, the Brendan Behan poem The Auld Triangle was transformed into an Irish classic exactly the same way, same pub and all.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:36 PM

I was told the lady was Deirdre Manifold.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: IrishDave
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 04:46 PM

I was tolg the lady was Hilda Moriarty.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 30 Aug 06 - 05:44 PM

HSA - my source of information was (of course) Mary O'C, so I just phoned her. She says she heard Luke Kelly sing the song at a midnight matinee session at the Grafton cinema in the late 1950s. She also says that there was a centenary commemoration of Patrick Kavanagh's birth earlier this year at which Deirdre Manifold was a guest of honour. And she has a photo of Deirdre that she brought to the Herga once to show us, and which she'll dig out again to show us again.

Kitty


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Subject: The sporting man of Chester Joseph Baker
From: Ljung
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 01:21 AM

Good morning
Can anybody tell me the story of this man.
Happy new year!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 01:22 AM

What man?


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,the twangman
Date: 29 Dec 06 - 10:28 AM

paddy set the words to the tune himself.

check out the following link to rte archive.

http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t03i.html


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Bill H
Date: 10 Feb 07 - 10:58 PM

Ti remember the tune to the song Raglan Road being sung to a song called Faine Gheal an Lae in the late fifties in our wee school in a village called Mullaghduff in Co Donegal The tune was played in both our fife and drum bands as a marching tune called the Dawning of the day, I remeber the tune well as this was first tune I ever learned to play on the tin wihistle.
I hope this is of assistance to you

Regards Bill


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:35 AM

Raglan Road was written By Patrick Kavanagh with not only "The Dawning of the Day" in mind but the actual title of the original tune "The Enchanted Way" which he included in the song.
see also


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:02 PM

I should have said " Fainne Gael En Lae" or "Along the Enchanted Way" is the original piece.
It's pre- Christian so I very much doubt that you'll ever find an author.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 04:51 PM

Pre-christian? Not likely. Any evidence?.

Regards.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 05:16 PM

Sure. Lots of evidence. I also have the three original nails fro the cross and a piece of straw from the manger.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 11 Feb 07 - 07:13 PM

Aaargh Jim Lad, shiver me timbers.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 01:30 PM

This is for those who like to fuss over words - if you are annoyed by people fussing over the words of your favourite songs, please skip this.

Okay. I feel that a comment made on another post applies to this song:

I once heard somebody (Clive James, I think) say that this song [Blowin' in the Wind] contains one of the most beautiful lines ever written followed by one of the most crass:

How many miles must the white dove fly, before she sleeps in the sand,
How many time must the cannonballs fly before they're forever banned.


Similarly, I feel that there are some beautiful lines and images in Raglan Road ('And I said,"Let grief be a fallen leaf
At the dawning of the day"')- but there are one or two clunkers, as well:

The Queen of Hearts still making tarts
And I not making hay;
Oh, I loved too much and by such and such
Is happiness thrown away.

"And I not making hay" is strikingly artificial and awkward. As for, "by such and such" - what can I say? Okay, this: forced rhyme and meter. And the homespun idiom ("such and such") is in jarring contrast to the academic syntax.

And what are we to think of the speaker making of himself an "angel" of the "true gods", while his love-object is "of clay" (not terribly flattering to her, in the context). Even though he's lost his wings by the end, there is perhaps an implication that she was not worthy of his angelic attention. Is there any reason to think the speaker is being ironic at his own expense rather than self-aggrandizing at the expense of his love-interest?


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 01:45 AM

I think, I can answer the "Angel" thing for you, Meself. We were always taught that angels were genderless and were always referred to in masculine terms. So they were male just so as you wouldn't call them "It". In north America, the unwashed frequently refer to them as "Females", some of whom apparently float around on clouds, chowing down on cream cheese. The creature made of clay was Himself, Meself.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 08:42 AM

Hate to disagreee with you, Jim, because you seem such a fine fellow, but I don't think you're right - take another look (from DT):

My reason must allow. [I take the period there to be an error{?)]
That I had loved, not as I should
A creature made of clay,
When the angel woos the clay, he'll lose
His wings at the dawn of day.


In other words, the speaker ("I") "had loved" the "creature made of clay" (the female love-interest), and he loved her "not as [he] should", but presumably with a too lofty, high-flown, high-falutin', idealistic type of love. (What's "not as [he] should" mean, anyway? That he should have just hauled her into bed? Again, it seems to suggest that she was not worthy of the angelic love he was offering; he was throwing his pearls before swine, so to speak. Somebody tell me I'm wrong here ... )

If the angel WERE the female love-interest, it would be exceedingly clumsy to end up the song referring to her in the male gender.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:00 AM

It's my Catholic up bringing that takes me there, Meself. There is just no way that Mr. Kavanagh (poetic license or none) would ever refer to an Angel in anything but a masculine term. Couldn't happen.
I take the line to mean that for an Angel to stoop down to loving an earthly being such as himself would be grounds for sudden departure from the heavens.
The bestowing of heavenly qualities upon a human being was sacriligeous enough to satisfy even Patrick Kavanagh but to refer to himself as an angel would just make no sense. Trust me on this one. I'm right, once in a while.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:09 AM

But Jim - he says "I had loved ... /A creature made of clay". In other words he - the speaker, "I" - is the angel, who loved the human (her). If "she" is the angel, then she all of a sudden has to be speaker for the last five lines of the song ...

I know you're right once in while, because I've seen it on other threads. But on this one, well, I'm not so sure ...


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:44 AM

Ah! You're getting there now. You're misinterpreting this sentence but worry not. You're on the brink of an epiphany!
"That I had wooed, not as I should, A creature made of clay"
This is to say...
"That I have courted, not a creature made of clay, which is what I should have done"

Clearly, his way is better.
My way is clearer.
Your way is to buy me a pint the first time I'm ever in Pugwash or Tatamagouche!
Now: The next sound you'll hear will be that of the penny dropping.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:49 AM

Now: Go back to the Stan Rogers thing and graciously accept the apology which awaits you there.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:58 AM

Oh my - now I'm just confused - is that the sound of a penny dropping, or am I losing my marbles? Anyway - okay, I'll start hoarding those falling pennies so I'll be all set to buy you that pint when the time comes -

Yes, that was a gracious apology - although, if I had interpreted that song the way you did, I might well have said the same thing about it and its writer ...


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:02 AM

"That I have courted an angel, not a woman"
Come on Meself. You can do this!


Stan may be gone but there are others who do not need to see my ramblings.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:10 AM

Nope - he's saying he, an angel, courted her AS IF she were an angel too, like him, but now he realizes she's a mere mortal - unlike him! (And he's got his feet on the ground now - lost his wings; he's learned a hard lesson).

Okay, now, out there in BC you're probably just getting your second wind, but it's after 3 in the morning here, so - get thee behind me, Satan, I've got to get some sleep. Maybe I'll see it differently in the morning!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 02:12 AM

'Night Son!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Quinny
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:30 PM

You'll find just about everything you'll need to know on the RTE (Irish National Broadcaster) website, including an interview with Hilda Moriarty the muse for this poem.
http://www.rte.ie/laweb/ll/ll_t03i.html


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 19 Feb 07 - 11:35 PM

Well Meself! Did the Penny drop yet?


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 04:01 PM

'Fraid not, Jim ... And if you take a look at the other thread about Raglan Road that's on the go, it seems that there are a few others who haven't heard that particular penny drop - not that that proves anything, mindja ...


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 05:07 PM

Proves nothing Bud!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 05:11 PM

Um - allow me to quote meself: "not that that proves anything, mindja ..." I think we're in agreement on that point!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:14 PM

You wrote the tune. Didn't you?


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 20 Feb 07 - 06:47 PM

Nope - but give me a minute and I will!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Stef
Date: 10 May 07 - 12:59 PM

it's originally a poem written by Patrick Kavanagh..though he intented it to be sung as a song to the air of 'Dawning of the Day'


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 May 07 - 01:49 PM

Oh Stef: Read the thread.
Good Morning All!
from the sunny Highlands.
Jim


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Corkie
Date: 13 May 07 - 07:20 AM

Does anyone know where I can get two extra verses to Raglan Road?
I heard them sung on RTE (Irish TV) earlier this year by Brian Kennedy (I think!!!!) and I very keen to find them. They were a sort of uplifting, in comparison with the pathos that the existing last verse ends with.

Hope someone can help.

Corkie


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 May 07 - 07:10 PM

Sure!
Doesn't it start off with ... In the town, where I was born, Lived a..... something, something, something?
Not exactly up to par with the original lyrics but definitely uplifting, in a cross your heart sort of way!!!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: BUTTS
Date: 13 May 07 - 08:00 PM

hi, raglan road is a great song. i have the cd cover but gave it to a friend, did you find out who wrote it??


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 May 07 - 08:07 PM

Guest, meself!


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 May 07 - 08:08 PM

i have the cd cover??? !


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Effsee
Date: 13 May 07 - 09:05 PM

Butts, it's always a good idea to read the whole thread before leaping in with daft questions.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Jim Lad
Date: 13 May 07 - 11:00 PM

She means "Abbey Road", I think.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 11:43 AM

It was written in 1947 by Patrick Kavanagh. In 1962 he met Luke Kelly of The Dubliners and said "here Kelly, you should sing this" or words very similar. Kelly put the words to an old trad tune Finne Gael An La (not too sure of my spelling) And his recording is the definitive version, It's both an unequited Love song for a lady called Hilda Moriaty, and I believe more so a typical Irish allegory style song for his love/hate relationship for the states involvement in church matters and vice versa, also a lot of the song relates to his b itterness that the fame, fortune and women, which came to others such as Joyce, Behan etc never came to him. Although since his death he is now regarded as one of Ireland's greatest writers. It was titled Raglan Road by Kelly as there were at least 4 other works at the time named Dawning Of The Day, the original poem's title


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 06:16 AM

Surely the correct title is On Raglan Road.

This is the version I like most http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jj9EK1QMlUg&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL8636080D3CF35CF4 Although I note that even they can't get the correct title.

I called Jonathan Williams sometime ago (who is the Trustee's Agent), to get permission for my freind to record the song for a charity CD. He was a really nice person and very helpful. He insisted that the song must be called "On Raglan Road". http://www.tcd.ie/English/patrickkavanagh/thetrust.html


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Tootler
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:09 AM

The original title of the poem was actually "Dark Haired Miriam Ran Away"


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 07:47 AM

The Dawning of the Day (Irish: Fáinne Geal an Lae) is an old Irish air composed by the blind harpist Thomas Connellan in the 17th Century. here is a version with concertinahttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bFeua5R8w8


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Apr 12 - 09:11 AM

more to the point, who put the bom in the bomba bomba bom?


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:05 AM

In this thread Jim Radford says he wrote his "Shores of Normandy" to be sung to the tune of "Raglan Road." I listened to several recordings of "Raglan Road." Sometimes, "Raglan Road" sounds to me like "Star of the County Down," and sometimes like "Lakes of Ponchartrain." The songs seem to have a lot in common. Are they all more-or-less the same tune, or is my ear bad?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,dusty millar
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:45 AM

understand it was originally called "dawning" and one of the "dubliners re-named it "raglan". originally a poem by a dubliner, some of the words could do with an explanation. the "enchanted way" is a dublin street, the "queen of hearts still baking tarts is believed to refer to the fact that the target of his affections worked in a bakers shop, and "not making hay" means of course he's getting nowhere with his courting! (we've all been there!). a quiet street where old ghosts meet refers to a dublin corner reputed to be haunted. hope this helps.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 03:30 PM

Have you learned nothing from this thread dusty millar ?

It was written by the poet Patrick Kavanagh, he called it RAGLAN ROAD, ffs.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:28 PM

'he called it RAGLAN ROAD, ffs.

Dave H'

ON Raglan Road even. As was pointed out earlier.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 05:51 PM

In a mean abode On the Raglan Road
By the Lakes of Ponchartrain
A gurrier called Kavanagh had a woman his brain,
A lass like Cushie Butterfield, with feet of yaller clay,
And he stole the tune from the rising moon
At the dawning of the day.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Julia L
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:27 PM

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned ASndy Hunter's Kilbowie Hill which I have heard sung by Jack beck (also recorded on his O, Lassie Lassie album)

KILBOWIE HILL- Andy Hunter

I was strolling down Kilbowie hill on a cold November day
The morning mist hung o'er me and the toon was dark and grey
My thoughts were wi' my broken love, the wound was there tae stay
And the shipyard cranes stand alane at the dawning of the day

I watched her running before me as she laughed her cares away
Soft as any summer's breeze across the Cartney brae
I never knew that love was mine, I chose tae slough away
And the shipyard cranes stand alane at the dawning of the day

And the Queen that stands against the dock will shortly sail away
The sun that shines upon her hull will shine through Clyde's clear spray
And I saw the light shining in her eyes as I wiped the tears away
And I saw her lying beside me at the dawning of the day


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 12 Jun 14 - 08:48 PM

Good of you to post the words Julia L, but Andy Hunter's version WAS mentioned on 4/11/00 by Ewan McVicar, even if he didn't name the song...... if you read the whole thread.
And I heard a friend sing Jim Radford's "Shores of Normandy" just last week when all the big commemorations of the D-Day landings were happening.

And (thread drift a bit) there are a lot of poems whose meters fit certain tunes - witness several songs to the tunes of "Tramps and Hawkers" and "Star of the County Down" for example.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:26 AM

Both Musicman & Zander below correctly give the old Gaelic tune Finne Gael An La' (speling)as the tune) it was put to that tune in 1964 by Luke Kelly of The Dubliners. After a brief meeting with Kvanagh in Dublin's Bailey pub. In the only conversation Kelly remembers, Kavanagh approached him with the poem and said " hey you Kelly, you should make a song out of this" The rest is history and one of my favourite songs. The poem was titled The Dawning Of The Day. Kelly found there were at least 4 other works of the same name so changed the title to Raglan Road.

Kavanagh never explained the heavy, mysterious symbolism of the words. But having studied it for over 6 years, I believe it's both an unrequieted love song, partly for Hilda Moriarty (there never was a real affair) and his love/hate relationship with the Irish State's relationship with the Catholic Faith, he was most critical of both. His fall ot with Brendan Behan is also in there I'm sure. 'The Queen of hearts still Making tartsm while I not making hay' almost certainly refers to Behan


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:32 AM

Interesting comments, Guest. I wish I knew what your name is.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:43 AM

Fáinne an lae, meaning dawn, literally means the ring of day, and refers to the brightness at the edge of the eastern horizon at dawn; 'geal', or gheal after the feminine noun fáinne, means bright.
The original song is an aisling poem, a style composed commonly in the 17th and 18th centuries to disguise the fact that they were songs of freedom from the occupying forces, who were fond of hanging people for wanting freedom.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Jun 14 - 05:43 AM

There's a wiki under Dawning of the Day, with a very rough translation.


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Subject: RE: Help: Who wrote the tune to Raglan Road???
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 15 Jun 14 - 07:05 AM

Re Dusty Miller & Dave Hanson
Kavanaghg did NOT name the song Raglan Road. It once had a title 'fair Haired Miriam ran away' but officially became titled Dawning Of The Day. It was Luke Kelly who changed that to On Raglan Road for copyright reasons (see me earlier post. 'The Queen Of Hearts' line does not refer to Hilda Moriarty. I don't believe she ever worked in a cake shop! She studied medicine and later became a GP. Kavanagh never explained what the various terms meant, But from research I've done including talking to people in Eire who knew the man, I believe it refers to Brendan Behan. Once a close friend of Kvanagh, they fell out, it's believed in jealosy of Behan's 'star' status with the media and him being regularly in employment by them. Compared to Kavanagh's getting little work or making no money, his rather ascerbic attitude and fondness to whiskey didn't help. He once said about Beham "him like a feckin queen up there entertaining all and sundry and I being ignored!" (making tarts and I not making hay) That's why I belief the line refers to Behan


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