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BS: A Day of Absence for Democracy

McGrath of Harlow 15 Nov 00 - 09:30 PM
InOBU 14 Nov 00 - 11:32 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Nov 00 - 09:27 PM
GUEST,Bob S. 14 Nov 00 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,Bob S 14 Nov 00 - 07:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Nov 00 - 06:21 PM
InOBU 14 Nov 00 - 04:56 PM
InOBU 14 Nov 00 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,Bob S 14 Nov 00 - 01:43 PM
GUEST,Tiger 14 Nov 00 - 12:01 PM
rabbitrunning 14 Nov 00 - 08:57 AM
GUEST,Greg F.(remote location) 14 Nov 00 - 08:51 AM
InOBU 14 Nov 00 - 07:32 AM
The Shambles 14 Nov 00 - 02:30 AM
Troll 14 Nov 00 - 02:25 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 14 Nov 00 - 02:00 AM
InOBU 13 Nov 00 - 11:21 PM
InOBU 13 Nov 00 - 11:19 PM
InOBU 13 Nov 00 - 11:19 PM
DougR 13 Nov 00 - 11:57 AM
Troll 13 Nov 00 - 07:32 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 13 Nov 00 - 02:58 AM
The Shambles 13 Nov 00 - 01:58 AM
DougR 13 Nov 00 - 01:12 AM
GUEST,truckerdave 13 Nov 00 - 12:49 AM
Troll 13 Nov 00 - 12:11 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 12 Nov 00 - 11:52 PM
Troll 12 Nov 00 - 10:43 PM
Troll 12 Nov 00 - 10:23 PM
InOBU 12 Nov 00 - 08:54 PM
Susan from California 12 Nov 00 - 08:54 PM
DougR 12 Nov 00 - 06:16 PM
The Shambles 12 Nov 00 - 05:55 PM
InOBU 12 Nov 00 - 05:50 PM
GUEST,frankham 12 Nov 00 - 05:34 PM
GUEST,Ken from Mendocino 12 Nov 00 - 04:16 PM
DougR 12 Nov 00 - 03:15 PM
Susan from California 12 Nov 00 - 02:13 PM
GUEST,tenchu@iolfree.ie 12 Nov 00 - 11:31 AM
katlaughing 12 Nov 00 - 11:14 AM
Peter K (Fionn) 12 Nov 00 - 10:54 AM
InOBU 12 Nov 00 - 10:44 AM
GUEST,Bob S. 12 Nov 00 - 10:40 AM
Uncle_DaveO 12 Nov 00 - 10:00 AM
The Shambles 12 Nov 00 - 07:43 AM
The Shambles 12 Nov 00 - 07:29 AM
GUEST,Bob S. 12 Nov 00 - 06:32 AM
The Shambles 12 Nov 00 - 05:16 AM
campfire 12 Nov 00 - 12:41 AM
GUEST,Bob S 11 Nov 00 - 07:57 PM

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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 09:30 PM

Neolithic times had their good side, and included some pretty impressive cultures. I think it was Paul Goodman who used to describe himself as a Neolithic Conservative, It might have been Noam Chomsky.

Words like Neolithic are pretty approximate, but America's First Nations before the invaders came in would fall into the category.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 11:32 PM

Hmmmmm, well compaired to 1776, we are going steadly forward, and the Bush years, as well as the Great Depression where just a blip on the horizon, and well, ask yourself at the next election, are you doing better than in neolithic times? That's one way to look at it, point to you Bob S.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 09:27 PM

Keeping liars and cheats out of a vote count isn't any harder than keeping them out of a jury. And in case any slip through, you make sure there are are representatives of the candidates keeping an eye on things, and on each other.

Clean elections take place all over the world, and I gather in most parts of the USA. If a state can't guarantee to find honest enough people to count the votes fairly, I'd question the wisdom of allowing it to decide who is going to be president.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Bob S.
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 08:05 PM

To InOBU:

If you go back and look at economic indicators it can be shown that present "Boom" began in 1982 or so. Using other data it can be shown to begin as far back as the early 1940's.(Does WWII ring a bell)

Nowhere does it appear to be coordinated with Clinton.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Bob S
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 07:59 PM

That's why they have challenges so potentially biased jurors or kept off the panel. No such chace in PBC

Hell yeah I'm biased. The last jury duty I was called for involved someone suing deep pockets for a mint. I think these mega awards are bull so no jury duty for me.

Before that I was called for a trial and asked if I was an NRA member. I wasn't at the time, but told Mr. lawyer that I once was a member. He wanted no part of me. So us biased people can be kept off juries.

But not hand counts.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 06:21 PM

"If I was checking ballots and was backing a particular candidate. I know damn well what the intent is. In fact I wouldn't even have to look." (BobS)

"I couldn't agree with you more. (DougR)

If I was counting ballots I'd do it honestly. I'd count them trying to respect the rights of the person whose vote it was. I've been present at counts, and have no doubt whatsoever that that is exactly the way that the overwhelming majority ofbthe people doing the counting (by hand of course, there's no other sensible way of doing it)have seen it.

What BobS just said there, and DougR said he agreed with, was equivalent to someone saying "If I was on a jury and someone whom I knew belonged to a party I disagreed with was on trial, I know damn well I'd vote to find them guilty."

I don't actually believe that is what you would do.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 04:56 PM

Ecconomies don't just happen... even a hands off policy takes ajustment and control, contrary to Lazie fairests, the ecconomy is not a force of nature. - Larry


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 04:56 PM

Ecconomies don't just happen... even a hands off policy takes ajustment and control, contrary to Lazie fairests, the ecconomy is not a force of nature. - Larry


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Bob S
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 01:43 PM

If they want to hand count ballots they should hand count the whole state, not just Gore's hand picked areas. There were 26,000 ballots tossed in Duval county which is heavily Republican. We need to have those counted also.

As for Clinton directing the economy: No way. The economy directed itself. Supply and demand have stayed in good balance. When they get out of sync the economy will tank. the only person who really has had an affect is Alan Greenspan.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Tiger
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 12:01 PM

WARNING: OT and BS

Fresh off the wire:

Plans for the "neutralization" of our two presidents-elect have been uncovered. Apparently a motley group of high-powered magnates for soap operas and television series, as well as the owners of several football and baseball teams, conspired to assasinate Democratic candidate Gore and Republican candidate Bush, who they argue, in a statement posted on the Internet this morning, "...have maliciously contributed to the hardship of countless families by distracting from the truly American traditions of ingesting at least 6 hours per day of a healthy combination of soaps, sporting events, and other necessary ocular nutrients." Operatives for the group, which calls itself the Media Liberation Front were apprehended by the FBI and the Texas Rangers. The plot was foiled in part by agents of the above mentioned agencies, who have been actively investigating and infiltrating interests which are possibly damaged by the ongoing debate between the candidates.....

Cheers!

Tiger


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: rabbitrunning
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 08:57 AM

The paper ran the text of the law that GWB signed in Texas that prefers manual recounts to electronic recounts. It's quite clear.

Now, either GWB doesn't read the laws he signs, or he's willing to cast aspersions on the accuracy of manual recounts for no more reason than that he's afraid to lose the election -- and thereby undermine public confidence in the electoral process and thus WHOEVER wins the election.

Or he's just trying to delay things until the deadline which is being enforced by one of his own.

Either way, he's playing a game of "heads I win, tails you lose," and that's not something that I can respect.

Bring on the courts! At least judges ATTEMPT to be impartial!


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Greg F.(remote location)
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 08:51 AM

Well, Troll, Clinton may be no Henry Clay, but you're no John Randolf either. Interesting you should bring up this quote, relating to the "corrupt bargain" between Adams and Clay in the election of 1824- which election was not decided until Feb. 1825 by a vote in the House of Representatives.

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 07:32 AM

Dear Troll:
Shines like the longest period of ecconomic growth in the history of this republic. Now, I remember a certain elifantine political party saying that they will not be held responcible for the consiqences of Clinton's ecconomic plans - so don't start with the "we controlled congress" stuff, it was Clinton's direction that led to this boom ecconomy... - All the best, Larry


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 02:30 AM

Heard of the BBC this morning. The Republican responsible for the overseas vote here. Sorry didn't catch his name.

Talking about voters and recounts, he said words to effect of, we (the Republicans), have our simpletons too, why shouldn't their vote count as well?


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Troll
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 02:25 AM

Clinton shines? So does a rotten mackerel in the moonlight.

troll


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 02:00 AM

I didn't mean to imply that I would take personal any political jab at Clinton,... He is not perfect. But when you line him up with the other presidents, and revue what their adgendas were, Clinton shines. Is there ANY republican candidate out there that listens to the world murmer? Policy is generally better when backed by research, is presented carefully, and has some concensus appeal. The republicans of this country seem to have a hard time with these, and generally behave in partisan fashion... closed mindedly... with one eye on buisness leaders, and one hand in corpoation pockets...

...and seldom, if ever, have they considered ANY alternatives to big buisness gluttony. It is like the post WWII celebration never ended... Viagra anyone?ttr


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 11:21 PM

WHoops! Sorry for the accidental double post - feel free to axe the second if you're there Joe :-0


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 11:19 PM

The people of Texas are idiots? Well... this is the state that took the question to the Supreme Court, "Is it unconstitutional to exicute an innocent man?" Saddly the Supreme Court said "No, it does not offend the constitution to fry him..." So, unfortunately this is not the first time Texas has lowered the national IQ by leaps and bounds. So, In the words of the old Phil Ochs song... Here's to the land you've torn out the heart of ... Texas find yourself another country to be part of... Larry


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 11:19 PM

The people of Texas are idiots? Well... this is the state that took the question to the Supreme Court, "Is it unconstitutional to exicute an innocent man?" Saddly the Supreme Court said "No, it does not offend the constitution to fry him..." So, unfortunately this is not the first time Texas has lowered the national IQ by leaps and bounds. So, In the words of the old Phil Ochs song... Here's to the land you've torn out the heart of ... Texas find yourself another country to be part of... Larry


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 11:57 AM

It will come as no surprise that I think people are rushing to judgement about Bush. He is described as being incompetent, a bumbler, and if you want other adjectives check out the thread on the bandaid on his face. There is no question but that of the two, Gore comes across as the more polished, better speaker, who verbally transmits his ideas better than Bush does. That does not make Bush an idiot, however, as so many of you believe.

He was elected governor twice by the people of Texas. Does that mean then, that the majority of Texans are idiots also? (I'm sure some of you will have fun with that question).

If he is elected president, and I have already stated that I do not believe he will be, I think he will be a far better president than many people believe at the moment.

DougR


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Troll
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 07:32 AM

Thomas, it's NOT about his sex life. It's about things like NAFTA and GATT and selling missle technology to the Chinese and NOT sending aid to Rwanda and bombing aspirin factories when he was about to be indicted and a host of other things.
If you think he was a great President, that is your right. I don't think much of your choice, but I expect you knew that.
I agree with Nader that the Republicans could have picked a better candidate. Almost anyone could have beaten Gore except Bush.
What were they thinking of.

troll


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 02:58 AM

IMHO, Clinton has got what it takes to be a great president. He understands more complex issues at the same time than anyone I've seen...

I don't give a rat's ass what his sex life is like.

Those last eight years were all that the popular business party could have asked for... MOST OF THE PEOPLE WERE PROSPEROUS MOST OF THE TIME...

In fact, my guess is that we have become so sedated by our massive consumption patterns, that we have forgotten the awesome CREDABILITY Clinton has in matters of international business incentives, and political science.

Trash him as you may, he has done a fantastic job in the white house, and I for one consider the partison quibbling to be reminiscent of 'chicken little'...

Do any of us honestly believe that "TRICKLE DOWN" was not bankrupting this country for the sake of runnaway imperialism?

But given the choice between Clinton and Nader, I would take Nader's honest assessment of the fallacy behind the assertion that "WHAT IS GOOD FOR BIG BUSINESS IS GOOD FOR THE WORLD'S PEOPLE"

In the words of Nader; "I am not taking votes from Gore, Gore is taking votes from Gore. He is barely holding his own against the most bumbling and incompetent man the republicans have chosen in decades!"

I guess that includes Quayle...ttr


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:58 AM

"Yes, by all means let us have four more years of the honorable and dignified actions that were so typical of the Clinton administration."

The games that the two parties were playing with the people during that time, are just continuing at the moment. The truth in politics has been accepted as what you can get away with.

No one came out of that with credit. The resulting disenchantment with all of this, is what the people think about it and has produced this result.

A choice between 'the devil and the deep blue sea'.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:12 AM

Thomas the Rymer: Perhaps you haven't heard this, but on Meet the Press today, James Carville said that he will not utter the name of your candidate for the next four years! If he comes up to address him, Carville will turn away. If he walks in the room, Carville will leave the room. I suspect Nader is quaking in his boots! He upset James Carville.

DougR


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,truckerdave
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 12:49 AM

Well, this may turn out so close after the final count that whatever happens no one can ever say again that thier vote doesn't count. And Mr. Chip Brubaker of Seabreeze Drive, West Palm Beach, Florida your write-in vote for Felix the Cat cost George W. Bush the presidency.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Troll
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 12:11 AM

Yes, by all means let us have four more years of the honorable and dignified actions that were so typical of the Clinton administration.With luck, we could have eight years of Gore and then eight of Hillary!
I absolutely agree that "zero tolerance" on corruption is the way to go. So we'll indict Clinton for selling missle technology to the Chinese and Gore for the deal HE made with the Russians to allow them to sell arms to Iran,and...
Oh.
You just want zero tolerance where the Republicans are concerned.
Sorry.

troll


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 11:52 PM

My goodness, but you are a scrapper, Doug!!!!

My thoughts:

Florida's Bush, If I remember right, was a biggy in the S&L fraud.

On FOX TV, in a pannel discussion, one of the participants mentioned soulfully that "many people are wondering why this is happening in GW's brother's state..." and was interrupted, fillibustered, cut off and and ignored, until he could 'clarify' his 'agreement with some vague point he had in common with the republican MC.

Florida is synonymous with corruption in politics.

I do not believe, as so many have been saying, that Gore should admit defeat, ie. conceed. If corruption is suspected, we need to set a precedence for ZERO tollerance, not just turn a deaf ear towards it. Those of us that vote feel SOME affection for our system of government, and every effort should be made to get their votes right.

Bush is attempting a 'Coup de'tat', plain and simple.

My inner-most feeling is: He is trying to rush this through, and he is willing to use intimidation, a little because he might lose BUT MOSTLY he is afraid that he might get caught.

IMHO, republicans are trying to wrest the outcome from the hands of due process, and they are showing absolutely no grace, consideration, or HONORABILITY

This little close-up of Bush's "CHARACTER" is sending our fine nation to hell in a handbasket. I pray that he might come to his senses before we find ourselves "over the hill"

All the best from a Nader supporter, ttr


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Troll
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:43 PM

I saw a great bumper sticker in S.C. yesterday:
If the Gods had wanted us to vote.
They would have given us candidates.

troll


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Troll
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:23 PM

Doug. There is one consolation. If Gore does win, it will keep Hillary from running in 2004. If he doesn't, her campaign will start the minute the announcment is made.
Yes, I know she said she will serve her six-year term. And I'm an astronaut and on the weekends I sub for the energizer bunny.

troll


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 08:54 PM

Hi Doug: So far there have been numerous instances of first hand accounts of irregularities in Florida directed at potential democratic voters. I have heard of one case where a Republican was turned away from the poles in - I believe it was Michigan. I believe that in a case where the outcome is likely to be changed by investigation of fraud or other unfair voting practices, or missleading ballots - intentional or otherwise - resulting in an election which does not represent the will of the people, then there should be, and in the case of Florida, case law dictates, that appropriate remidies be taken. If that can be applied in states where Gore took the electorial votes, so be it, especialy in a close election. This is not a football game, this is the gravest right we as Americans exersize, the right to choose our leaders. Bush should realize the votes aren't his or Gore's they belong to the American people - and should be treated with reverence and care.
Larry


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Susan from California
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 08:54 PM

I don't know, even a begining bookkeeper keeps running the numbers until they come out the same twice. I still think the exit polls had it right, when the people were asked who they voted for, they answered. When the machines have been asked, they aren't sure what to say :-)


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: DougR
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 06:16 PM

Well, Larry, you have a right to your opinion, of course.

Bush won the Florida vote and when the count was done again by machine, he won again. I suppose after this election, the democrats are going to insist that the whole elections process return to hand counting ballots. That seems to be the only way they will recognize an accurate count.

I suppose there is no point in asking if those of you, who are so in favor of Gore's position, think it is fair to check only those votes in the counties where the largest number of democratic voters live. I'm sure you think it is. You probably also think it is fair to have the counters "guess" what the intent of the voter was when questionable ballots are found.

Gore will win, but it's going to be a shabby win. Not a win to be proud of at any rate.

DougR


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 05:55 PM

Good stuff......Well yes but is not the root of the problem that the people do not really want either Bush or Gore? But that was the only real choice they were given.

That was the feeling before the election and now I cannot see either of them being accepted by the nation, as used to happen. Will things now ever be as they were? Where now?


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 05:50 PM

Gee DougR:
If Gore really wants to steal anything, I think he needs the Bush bros as advisers, all he has to do is call em up and ask them how the pulled off the old SNL job. How is it stealing an election to make sure those who voted for you don't have their ballots tossed away? What it boils down to... no pun intended, well yes, pun intended... is that Bush is worried that the more accurate the count the less votes he has. - Larry


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,frankham
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 05:34 PM

Democracy is not a sham. It's working now.

In spite of the high blown rhetoric about what's good for the country, I think it's important to remember what this is all about. It's a political issue. All the spinning in the world about what's noble and right means little. All the name calling in the world such as suggesting that Democrats are stealing the election, Republicans are being arrogant, etc. etc. is silly. It comes down to this, do we the people want Bush or Gore?

The election isn't over until the fat lady sings.

BTW, Ralph Nader is another politician now. He's thrown his hat into the ring and he is part of the system. He may lose his creditability as a powerful consumer advocate as a result. He will have inadvertently helped Bush to win. Would he make a good president? Some think so and that it their political decision.

As President Clinton so aptly put it, "The people have spoken and it will take time to find out what they mean."

Anger, name calling, high-flown spinning rhetoric...it's all part of the rough world of politics. It's democracy and I love every moment of it because it works.

Nobody said it was going to be easy.

Politics has gotten a bad name now and it's ludicrous for politicians to accuse other politicians of politicizing issues as if they themselves are somehow exempt from the process. I hope the election plays out because I am so happy that people have suddenly woke up from their deep political sleep and are finally engaged.

Isn't this what we want to show the rest of the world, that we care about our political process? Isn't this what our forefathers gave their lives for?

Frank


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Ken from Mendocino
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 04:16 PM

it looks like the American election is going to turn out to be the greatest food fight in the history of our nation. The 2 major partys, between which there is hardly a hair's breadth of difference on most issues, will show themselves to be the shallow fools that they are and we Nader supporters will stand aside and laugh.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: DougR
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 03:15 PM

Kat, Susan, no problem. Not to worry. Gore is going to win this election if he has to steal it (and that's what I think his is going to do). They are gonna keep counting till they get a number they like.

Oh well, on to 2004.

DougR


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Susan from California
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 02:13 PM

If Bush truly trusts people, not gov't, than he should be all for a hand count where the will of the people can be determined. If the ballot was faulty, do not disenfranchise the voters. If I ever gave a scantron (computer graded) test to my students (which I don't, my tests are all short answer and essay,much to my students chagrin) and the machine kicked out a test as unreadable, I would then grade the test by hand. I wouldn't assign the student a zero, I wouldn't ask all of the students to take the test again.

Hey DougR I have an idea :-) how 'bout splitting Florida's electoral vote? 12.5 each...whadaya think? Should we call both campaigns?


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,tenchu@iolfree.ie
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 11:31 AM

American political leaders are constantly telling the rest of the world that they must engage in democratic government.The tables have been rather turned now that American democracy has been shown to be a sham.I watched George.W.Bush on TV yesterday and he's scarier than Saddam and Milosevic put together.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 11:14 AM

Doug, I heard it with my own ears, on NPR radio and will go look that program up, if you'd like; the young woman called in, no reporters quoted her, she said herself that she was refused a new ballot. I don't care if one is Dem. GOP, or from the Purple People Eater's Party, that is wrong and should be taken into account.

kat


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:54 AM

I take that point Thyme, and it's a puzzle. Because it's a still a fact (with no exceptions that I could quote - others may know some) that as the gap between rich and poor widens, crime rates rise.

We saw it in the UK in the Thatcher and post-Thatcher years, when the gap widened faster than in any developed nation on earth except New Zealand (crime went up even faster in NZ). That still leaves us well short of the gap in the US, by the way.

Needlss to say, the prison population rose under Thatcher, but taking your point again, it was by no means always the poorest who were doing the crime.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:44 AM

Well, there is talk about a hand count overturning a Gore victory in the sauth west. Unfortuantely, I believe they will find that both sides have cronnies, and when all the hand counts are complete in every state, Gore will have won by 327 votes. Hummmmmmmm


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Bob S.
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:40 AM

Almost true. There are three in a group. In PB there are 6 groups of three right now. Three is not a lot.

Heard this AM that the Dems found a friendly judge in Missouri to keep the polls open for a extra 2 hours. The Reps short cicuited it to 45 minutes.

Also, note that except for a little hollering & yelling things are pretty quiet. No looting. No fire bombings.

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 10:00 AM

Guest Bob S said:
"The "counter" can look at a ballot, see no mark for any candadate and say "This person was confused; one for candidate A"."

Not so. Under the current situation, there's A LOT of people looking over shoulders, and the process has to go on objective criteria.

Now, there is a problem of interpretation that came to my attention this morning: "What about pregnant chads?"

A chad, you need to be advised, is the little piece of paper punched out of the vote-hole. What if it's only partially detached? What if it's only been pushed by the stylus and dented (pregnant chad)? These might be matters of opinion, but if (as I assume there are) there are rules set up in advance on how to treat such instances, it's objective.

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 07:43 AM

Where the hell is Floria anyway?

"the hell with it, let's go get a beer"


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 07:29 AM

In a State run by the opponents brother, would you trust the State?

Thanks for the explanation. It explains a lot but does not make the situation much better. Seems a little ironic that it is Bush taking to the courts first though.

Here we just painstakingly count each one by hand anyway.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Bob S.
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 06:32 AM

A hand recount is a determination by committee of what a voter was thinking. It is not just a count.

The "counter" can look at a ballot, see no mark for any candadate and say "This person was confused; one for candidate A". In a heavily democrat area would you trust the committee?

Also, after a few hours of this the human tendency is to say "the hell with it, let's go get a beer"

Bob S.


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: The Shambles
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 05:16 AM

Why is Bush going to the courts to try and prevent a hand recount in Floria?


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: campfire
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 12:41 AM

I just find it ironic that Bush is fighting the recount in Florida, but considering asking for one here in Wisconsin. Of course, if he wins Florida, he probably won't.

campfire


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Subject: RE: A DAY OF ABSENCE FOR DEMOCRACY
From: GUEST,Bob S
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 07:57 PM

Damn ENTER key.

The Chicago Dems would have had this solved way before the election.


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