Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo

Subject: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 11:27 AM

I'm a 5-string banjo player who has jammed with other old-time string band musicians for many years. During a recent trip to Ireland I managed to jam with quite a few musicians playing traditional Irish tunes. Sometimes it sounded pretty good, but with most tunes, it was difficult to play much melody. Most Irish banjo pickers use a plectrum or tenor banjo, played with a flat pick -- quite a different style from the clawhammer and three-finger styles that I use on the five-string banjo. I'm wondering if any Mudcatters can steer me to records or instruction books on how to adapt five-string picking styles to traditional Irish music.

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Jon W.
Date: 10 Nov 00 - 11:40 AM

"Basic Clawhammer Banjo" by Ken Perlman got me going in that direction. It's publised by Mel Bay. I'll admit that the tunes in 3/4 and related time signatures (jigs) don't seem to be nearly as natural as the 4/4 type tunes (reels) for the style he presents. I don't really play clawhammer either - I pick up with my forefinger, down on chords with the same, and use my thumb on off beats to add either drone or additional melody notes. But the clawhammer tabs and left-hand techniques work well for me.

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: zander (inactive)
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 05:50 AM

Check out Tony Sullivan { Sully ] at Halshaw Music. www.halshaw music.co.uk Sully plays brilliant Irish music on both tenor and 5 string. All the best, Dave

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 06:56 AM

Thanks, Jon and Tony. I'll check these out

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: BanjoRay
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 08:06 AM

If you want to try it in three finger style, Tom Hanway's your man. He lives in New York but is part Native American from New Mexico. He has an instruction book for playing Irish music three finger style which is superb - he has totally captured it. I saw him at the Yorkshire Dales Bluegrass Festival in 1999 - he succeeded in turning a bunch of died-in-the-wool blugrassers into Irish pickers in an afternoon! I've forgotten the title, but its published by Mel Bay.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Ship'scat
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 09:36 AM

Reels? Hornpipes? Polkas? Slides? No problem.

Jigs? Nada, Nothing. Help! How do tame those nasty triplets while drop thumbing, frailing, beating, etc? I can live with "no way, Jose", but it would be nice.

KC

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 10:16 AM

KC defines the problem precisely. One thing I have done is to combine a brush stroke, a thumbstring pluck, and an index finger pluck (up) in that order: BTIBTI. You can add nice rhythm to ensemble playing that way, but it's not much good for playing the melody. Another gimmick is to use a drop thumb clawhammer style with lots of hammer-ons and pull-offs to create triplets. Works well with "Rights of Man" after a bit of practice.

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: GUEST,Maurice
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 02:46 PM

Part of the reason that 5-string isn't used much in Irish music is because the tunes mostly alternate between the keys of D and G so if you get in a session you're putting on and taking off your capo constantly. Tenor tuning is much less hassle.

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Margo
Date: 11 Nov 00 - 11:02 PM

Yes, my first thought was to steer you to a Ken Perlman book. That's the first book from which I have learned trad. American songs and fiddle tunes for the banjo. Very melodic. I he has a book called "Melodic clawhammer banjo" and also one called "New England and Irish fiddle tunes for clawhammer banjo". I hear it's pretty difficult... I don't know. Margo

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Downeast Bob
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 07:55 AM

Sounds to me like D-tuners (aka "Scruggs pegs" which are used to switch quicky from G to D tunings in bluegrass) would find an equally useful purpose in Irish sessions.

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: GUEST,John Leeder
Date: 12 Nov 00 - 09:40 PM

Some 6/8 tunes adapt better to clawhammer style than others. You have to reeducate your right hand a little. For each triplet, you play the first and third notes on a a down-pick (frail), and you fill in the middle note with whatever works -- hammer-on, pull-off, drop thumb, etc.

A few jigs which I've been able to work out as clawhammer tunes include "The Rakes of Kildare" (the first one I was successful with), "Swallow's Tail", "Blackthorn Stick", "I Lost My Love", "Atholl Highlanders" (really a march in 6/8).

Since taking up the octave mandolin, I tend to use it for jigs; the ones I frail are more like novelty items.

For the A minor tunes I raise the 4th and 5th strings a full tone from G tuning.

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Charcloth
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 02:33 PM

I vote for the Ken Perlman book "Basic Clawhammer Banjo" It has "Haste to the Wedding" Road to Lisdoonvarnah" & a few other jigs It is very nicely done. I love to play jigs & I tend to try to learn them more often than reels. Bluegrassers usually play 4/4 time which is sad to limit yourself to just one timeing. But for threefinger style as was mentioned earlier Tom Hanway has the Mel Bay Book, "Complete Book of Irish & Celtic 5-String Banjo" to order you can call 1-800-8-mel-bay (800-863-5229)that's all I can tell you

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: Jon W.
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 10:37 AM

I'll bet there's a good way to adapt 3 finger style to jigs - three fingers, three notes - it seems logical to me.

Subject: RE: Trad. Irish tunes on 5-string banjo
From: GUEST,CraigS
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 10:17 PM

Those fast tuning machine pegs are called "Keith pegs", after the man who invented them (I think his name is bill? Keith)