Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: GUEST,Charlie M
Date: 18 Jan 18 - 01:50 PM

After hearing David Holt and Josh Goforth sing this, I wanted to learn more. What a great old song and thankfully,a great old thread. Thanks to all who contributed.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 06 Dec 15 - 06:05 AM

Loved the Franz S story. I have many very happy memories of travelling around the French Broad. Cecil Sharp visited and crossed the river during his Appalachian journeys and he too enjoyed being in the area.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Dec 15 - 09:05 PM

It's been so long since I posted here that I've forgotten how to post a hot link: Click here for a good time!

Charlie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Dec 15 - 08:58 PM

Alden et al-

An excellent transcription but they were already faithfully transcribed above by djc.

Recently I've used the tune (as I remember it) in adapting a poem by Hiram Cody for singing, "Old Ship-Riggers": http://www.charlieipcar.com/lyrics/old_ship_riggers.htm

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: GUEST,Alden
Date: 04 Dec 15 - 09:58 PM

OK, here are the lyrics, faithfully transcribed:

SONG OF THE FRENCH BROAD RIVER
(Traditional Collected & Sung by Obray Ramsey)

In the mountains and the valleys where the French Broad River flows,
If it could write the history of the mighty things it knows,
It could write of Boone and Crockett, Jackson and the Cherokee,
Flowing down from Carolina to the hills of Tennessee.
(Banjo Chorus)

From the Pink Pits to the Painted Rocks the Indian made his stand,
Up and down the river, with his bow in his right hand;
Coming from the lowlands, dressed in buckskin, with a gun,
The white man pushing westward, the setting of the sun.
(Banjo Chorus)

From the Big Bald Mountain, down the Edge of Tennessee,
That's the Laurel Valley with its trace of Cherokee;
To the Mountain Island, Laurel River rolls along,
She flows into the French Broad, as she sings her mighty song.
(Banjo Chorus)

Up the French Broad Valley you can hear a lonesome sound,
That's the blood hound baying as he runs the black bear down;
Heading up the mountain, bruin makes a running fight,
He's heading for the balsams, he's fighting for his life.
(Banjo Chorus)

Come and sit down by the river, linger with it all day long,
You will hear a million voices joined together in this song,
The far-off cry of bygone days still linger in the air,
On the bosom of the river you can hear them singin there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 10:50 PM

Franz-

Nicely done.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Franz S.
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 05:25 PM

I just finished rereading Wilma Dykeman's book on the French Broad. It was just as great a pleasure the second time around.

As Charley Noble has said he and I traveled to that country long ago (I remember it as March 1962) and had a many of adventures.

One of my stepfathers was D. K. Wilgus, who among many other notable accomplishments wrote the liner notes for most of Obray Ramsey's recordings though the two men never met. In 1995 I returned with my mother to Marshall NC. We arrived in town about 5 pm and pulled off the main street to consider our next move. We wanted dinner, a place to stay, and a way to contact Obray. As it turned out, we were in front of the local State Patrol office, so we went in to ask. The uniformed young woman with the long braid said, "Well, the only place to stay is the Marshall House B&B, just around the corner and up the hill. For dinner there's Mama's up on the bypass. They usually close at five, but I'll call her so she'll wait for you. And Obray's niece runs the video store next to Mama's, so you can ask her for his phone number."

We had dinner at Mama's, got the phone number at the video store, and checked into the Marshall House (where we got to be spectators at least in the making of a young girl's prom dress). We called Obray's house from the B&B (no cell phones then) and got a rather cool reception from his wife Tressa Lee, but she said we could come by the next morning at 10.

We got to the Ramsey place at 10 and knocked on the door. Tressa Lee had chosen to be away (the reason for that is another story) so Obray answered the door. I introduced myself as one of the college boys who had met him while visiting Mel Lyman and he said, "Oh, yeah, one of the boys from Maine" where I had gone to college. Then I introduced my mother as Eleanor Long-Wilgus. He straightened up and said, "Wilgus? Did you say Wilgus? Are you D. K. Wilgus' widow?" My mother said yes. "Come on in, have a seat, I'm so glad to meet you!"

We visited for an hour or so. He told us how much D. K. had helped his music career and how sorry he was never to have met him. Obray had pretty much given up music back in the '70s and gone back to lumbering and such for a living; actually he had never given up his "day job".

When Tressa Lee got home after we had left and Obray told her about the D. K. connection she wrote my mother a fine letter apologising for her rudeness (she though we were just friends of Mel Lyman and she hated Mel). She and my mother corresponded regularly until my mother's death a few years ago.

The circle will be unbroken.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 May 11 - 07:32 AM

I think you've done a better job of transcribing what Obray sang than I did above.

I also deliberately changed a word or two without mentioning it, i. e., "On the bosom of the river, you can hear them singing there." I switched "bosom" to "banks" as I found the image too distracting!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: Lyr Add: SONG OF THE FRENCH BROAD RIVER
From: GUEST,djc
Date: 31 May 11 - 04:06 AM

What an interesting and long-lived thread!

"Blue Ridge Banjo" -- I have the LP at home -- and "French Broad River" in particular played a part many years ago in leading me to pick up the banjo. Thinking now of Obray Ramsey and the banjo, I wish I could even touch the hem of his garment, but that didn't happen.

I remembered the words and the order of the verses differently from the ones above. Here's a transcription directly from the LP, warts and all, though I never could make out the word after "mountain" in the fourth verse. Maybe you can.

-- djc

SONG OF THE FRENCH BROAD RIVER

(Traditional Collected & Sung by Obray Ramsey)

In the mountains and the valleys there the French Broad River flows,
If it could write the history of the mighty things it knows
It could write of Boone and Crockett, Jackson and the Cherokee,
Flowing down from Carolina through the hills of Tennessee.

From the Paint Beds to the Painted Rocks the Indian made his stand
Up and down the river with his bow in his right hand;
Coming from the lowlands dressed in buckskin, with a gun,
The white man pushing westward, the setting of the sun.

From the big Bald Mountain down the edge of Tennessee,
That's the Laurel Valley with its trace of Cherokee;
To the Mountain Island Laurel River rolls along,
She flows into the French Broad as she sings her mighty song.

Up the French Broad valley you can hear a lonesome sound,
That's the bloodhound baying as he runs the blackbird down;
Heading up some mountain [?], he makes a running fight,
He's heading for the balsams, he's fighting for his life.

Come and sit down by the river, linger with it all day long,
You'll hear a million voices join together in this song;
The far-off cry of bygone days still linger in the air
On the bosom of the river, you can hear them singing there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Franz S.
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 10:59 PM

Manly Wade Wellman (one of the greatest names I have ever run across) wote a book called "The Kingdom of Madison", about Madison County NC which straddles the French Broad. He also wrote a series of wonderful stories set in the same area for Fantasy & Science Fiction magazine back in the '50s, featuring as wild a family of mountain people as anyone ever imagined. And he was not mocking them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 10:32 PM

Oh, there's always more to the story!

This was the time when Obray got his first set of Scrugg's tuning pegs and was having a lot of fun experimenting with them.

Oh, by the way, the download from mediafire above worked flawlessly for me.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Franz S.
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 09:04 PM

And as I recall the story (though I was not there), Obray shot at a groundhog over 100 yards away, down hill, through brush, and hit it in the hindquarters. Since he had aimed for the head (so as not to spoil the prospective banjo head), he was concerned that the sight on his rifle was off. And when he went to sight it in, it was!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 04:39 PM

Bill et al-

One of my favorite memories is going with Obray Ramsey hunting for groundhog. He had a blue Ford Falcon at that time and he'd cruise along the bottom of a mountainside until he spotted a groundhog sunning himself on the rocks above. Then he'd slowly bring to Falcon to a stop. Get out with his scope 22 rifle and blast away at it. It may not have been the traditional way to hunt groundhog but he had dead aim and we had a fine groundhog stew that night, which was a welcome change from beans, biscuits and gravy, varied with biscuits, beans and gravy.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 10:52 AM

Yes...thanks....even though Mediafire wants to sneak in redirects and ads.
That saves me having to figure out how get a phonograph close to the computer.

I will always regret not having this technology when I visited the guy I knew just south of Rosman, N/C. (His place was one ridge on the NC side. He was a fisherman and guide and woodturner who loved those mountains)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 10:00 AM

Thanks for the link, Franz.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Franz S.
Date: 01 Mar 11 - 09:14 AM

There is a free download of Obray Ramsey's "Blue Ridge Banjo" including the "Song of the French Broad" available at:

Mediafire

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Song of the French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:42 AM

refresh to compare with companion thread.

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 12:31 PM

You ran the gantlet* of tourist attractions and consumer-driven tourists from Sevierville through Pigeon Forge to Gatlinburg. They built a bypass road that made a big difference at Gatlinburg. I spent a summer at Sugarlands. There were three questions park rangers were continually peppered with:

Where's the bathroom?
Where's the coke machine?
How do I get to the top?

It seemed a waste of my perfectly good college education and years of park naturalist and historian experience to be stationed at that turnstile in the mountains--my mistake for applying there without realizing how they operated. I was able to get out a few hours a week to lead a couple of walks and they were wonderful, but I'd been hired at the last minute after originally turning it down to fill a job originally designed for a fellow who had a heart condition and was barely ambulatory. The strain of this human contact would have killed him. My supervisor would have had me do the walks and programs all of the time except they literally preprogrammed every hour of every day all week for each ranger. It was the most constipated schedule I'd ever encountered and I left that job earlier in the season than I planned, I blew my top after tangling with a particularly cretinous and selfish "protection" ranger and quit and left the next day. I've never done that before or since--and it was the most liberating feeling! It's a gorgeous place if you can get away from the idiotic people. I met some very nice ones, I won't deny it, and had one of the best naturalist experiences ever on one of my hikes with my boss was long to audit--how cool is that! If you can figure out a navigable off season (when there isn't so much snow on the ground that you'll get stuck or lost or frostbit) that is when you should visit the Smokys.

SRS

*I met a writing Guru last year who insisted that this should be "gantlet," not "gauntlet," but who acknowledged that it has been misused for so long that it is uncommon to find the word spelled correctly.

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: IvanB
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 10:44 AM

This is the first time I've seen this thread. richr's description of the Gatlinburg-Pigeon Forge corridor brings back fond memories. My first visit to this area was in the late 50's, when I came through with my parents as a teenager and Pigeon Forge was still (relatively) a sleepy little town. I do remember bumper to bumper traffic through Gatlinburg, though, waiting to enter Smoky Mountains NP.

In the mid-90's I took my new wife on the same trip, promising her wonderful views of a picturesque and lovely rural village. She's laughed ever since over my surprise as we traversed the four-lane divided highway from light to light, with views of nothing but outlet malls and tacky tourist attractions. Only one of my "you can't go home again" experiences. Thomas Wolfe had it exactly right, even if this isn't quite what he meant.

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: Fortunato
Date: 12 Jan 08 - 07:44 AM

Nick,
You've got me there, sir. I do admit that
when Susette are sitting on the porch on Hanlon Mountain gazing down at Green Valley and the cows and horses in the pasture and Craggy Dome in the distance, we seldom think, "I wish lots of people would move down here to Asheville and build subdivisions."

But maybe you and Janie and come down (or up) and visit us sometime.
cheers
chance

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: nickp
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 07:30 AM

Do I detect a 'put everyone off going to save it for me' comment there Fortunato!!!

Nick

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: Janie
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 12:45 AM

It is indeed. And very different from the lovely mountain rivers I knew in West Virginia. The way the topography, and therefore the rivers, vary, in different sections of the Appalachians is wondrous to experience.

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Jan 08 - 12:10 AM

The French Broad is a beautiful river. One of the views I enjoyed on my weekly drive between Kentucky and Tennessee when I had a significant other in Glasgow, KY, working up at Mammoth Cave NP and I was working at the Great Smoky Mountains NP.

SRS

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: Fortunato
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 10:02 PM

Terrible place, Asheville, no one goes there anymore, too crowded. Terrrible food, unfriendly natives, ugly geography, and cheap, pop music rap and hiphop everywhere. Cold in the winter and blazing hot in the summer. yep, give it a miss.

Subject: RE: French Broad River
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 08 - 09:35 PM

It's worth refreshing this thread for a number of reasons. One would be to focus on Obray Ramsey's splendid song "French Broad River." Second to correct Bill's earlier post where he mentions that Obray composed "Cold Wind & Rain" which was done by the Greatful Dead" when he means "Cold Rain & Snow."

Third I'll probably be in Ashville, North Carolina, the last weekend of March and I don't have a clue if there are any Mudcatters in residence there to commune with. It's an interesting place, the annual site of the Ashville Festival. It's also a place referenced by Tomas Wolfe as a place where "you can't go home again." I remember it as a large milltown that Franz and I rolled through on our way to Madison County back in 1963. We didn't blink but we had a mission and we were younger.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE:
From: Amos
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 10:42 PM

Wow, the names, the waters, and the country...enough to make me move back East just to ride them. Thanks for a slice of beauty, mates.

Regards,

A

Subject: RE:
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 10:35 PM

Wilma Dykeman wrote a splendid history of the French Broad River and it's environs for the "Rivers of America" series published by Holt, Rinehart in 1955. The copy I have is a reprint printed by the University of Tennessee Press in 1965. I haven't seen the river since my sons, both avid whitewater canoeists, paddled the French Broad on their way home from the Nantahela.

Sandy

Subject: RE:
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 09:30 PM

Thanks, rich r, for the geographic background. I always wondered about that.

Obray Ramsey was a favorite of mine and I bought and have always enjoyed his LPs on Washington and Prestige as has my friend, Bob Conroy. Sometime in the mid-1970s, Obray Ramsey was singing at the Philadelphia Folk Festival. It was at a big evening concert and I was standing off on the side as Obray sang "Young Edwin in the Lowlands Low." It was very, very nice, I was quite struck by it and I made an audible comment to the effect that I had never heard him sing it before. The guy standing next to me said, "I haven't either!" I looked at him and it was Ken Goldstein who had produced all of his recordings.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE:
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 07:04 PM

ooops! since I left to GO to that area shortly after posting here, the thread slipped away into oblivion...embarrassing, but thanks to RG&C for the update..

and Nancy...the tune is 5 minutes away...*grin*...

Subject: RE:
From: Nancy King
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 06:27 PM

The song looks great; where might I find the tune?

Rich, thanks for all the lore about the river and its name. I'm relieved to know where it really came from, because I've always been uneasy, amid the beautiful countryside (not to mention the fabulous Biltmore Estate), with a river whose name conjured up an image of a Parisian streetwalker.

--Nancy

Subject: RE:
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 04:27 PM

You're welcome,Rich, and some day we ought to put in Obray's version of "Rain & Snow."

Subject: RE:
From: raredance
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 04:02 PM

What a fine appendix to this ancient thread, especially since BillD never did come back with his version. R&GC deserves extra credit for finding this thread to append.

rich r

Subject: Lyr Add: SONG OF THE FRENCH BROAD RIVER
From: GUEST,Roll&Go-C
Date: 24 Feb 01 - 02:58 PM

Having visited with Obray Ramsey back in 1963, I have fond memories of listening to his singing of Poor Little Ellen, I'll Cook For You Johnney, Wild Bill Jones, and The Song of the French Broad River, not to mention ground hog hunting. Here's the way I remember his words:

SONG OF THE FRENCH BROAD RIVER
(Traditional Collected & Sung by Obray Ramsey)

In the mountains and the valleys where the French Broad River flows,
If it could write the history of the mighty things it knows,
It would write of Boone and Crockett, Jackson and the Cherokee,
Flowing down through Carolina from the hills of Tennessee.

Chorus:

Come and sit down by the river, linger with it all day long,
You'll hear a thousand voices join together in this song;
The far off cries of bygone days still linger in the air,
On the banks of the river, you can hear them singing there.

From the Pink Pits to the Painted Rocks the Indian made his stand,
Up and down the river, with his bow in his right hand;
Coming from the lowlands, dressed in buckskin, with a gun,
The white man pushing westward, the setting of the sun. (CHO)

From the Big Bald Mountain, down the Edge of Tennessee,
That's the Laurel Valley with its trace of Cherokee;
To the Mountain Island, Laurel River rolls along,
Flows into the French Broad, as she sings her mighty song. (CHO)

Up the French Broad Valley you can hear a lonesome sound,
That's the deer hound baying as he runs the black buck down;
Heading up some mountain glen, he makes a running fight,
He's heading for the balsalms, he's fighting for his life. (CHO)

It's a great song backed up with his rippling three-finger banjo picking.

Subject: RE:
From: Shula
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 10:21 PM

Personally love this sort of "digression;" seems to me that the "breathes there a man with soul so dead..." sentiment is at the very core of folk music. A little disappointed, here, in fact, to learn that it is the N.C. Blue Ridge, and not "my" VA Blue Ridge that is referred to in the song. I shall hope for more familiar geography to turn up in future threads. Thanks for the lesson.

Shula

Subject: RE:
From: rich r
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 10:06 PM

A brief geographical digression that also caters to a personal obsession. I always identify more intesely with a song that has geographic place names in it if I know something about the place, or bettter yet if I have actually been there. For example, a number of years ago on my first visit to Nevada, I flew into Reno and took a bus up to Lake Tahoe, CA following the Truckee River up to its source. When I got home I had to dig out "Darcy Farrow" and "sing of Darcy Farrow where the Truckee runs through" with new feeling because I had been there. OK it's strange so feel free to ignore this.

The French Broad River rises in the North Carolina mountains south of the Great Smokey Mountains. It probably got its name "Broad" in the early 1700's from the fur traders & hunters from the southern colonies who saw the relatively wide lowlands spreading from the banks. It was called the "French" Broad to distinguish it from another "Broad" river that flowed down the eastern side of the Blue Ridge Mountains through English territory to the Atlantic. The French at that time claimed all land drained by westward flowing streams that flowed into the Gulf of Mexico. Those claims were surrendered to the English in 1763 at the end of what is known in the USA as the French and Indian War. The French Broad flows north and west through the heart of the southern Appalachians, through Asheville, North Carolina. It gradually deepens into a precipitous gorge as it tumbles and foams through the Bald Mountain Range into Tennesee. It slows down and absorbs the Pigeon River (the river that runs through Gatlinburg and Pigeon Forge, Tennesee, one of North America's greatest strips of glitz and tackiness, DollyWorld and all that) and the Nolichucky River. At Knoxville it joins the Holton to form the great Tennesee River. I could go on about how Mt. Pisgah got its name from gun toting parson in a group if Indian fighters in 1776 who viewed it from the lush French Broad River valley, but I won't digress that far. I promise not to do this often. Back to your folk songs.

rich r

Subject: RE:
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 09:57 PM

ok...I'll type it in...(the tune is sort of ummmmm...a mountain banjo tune)..I'm headed for that area next Thurs...right where GA, NC & SC meet, near Rosman, NC, to attend a wood collectors meeting!Gonna be woodcutting in the daytime and song singing at night..and Jim Bob Tinsley ...[cowboy and country songs..even some Gene Autry type] is going to perform on Sat. night..(he even has his own museum in Brevard, NC!)

Anyway..let me double-check the words on the record, and I'll type them in...

Subject: RE:
From: Shula
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 09:24 PM

Would love to see this one, myself, since my father's family came from that neck of the woods. Now that you've got us all perked up.......?

Shula

Subject: RE:
From: Lorraine
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 09:20 PM

Glad you figured it out. 1 a.m. is a magic time for inspirational thinking. Are you planning to share the words?

Subject: RE:
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 97 - 02:36 PM

well, I found it!..on the 4th pass thru my rows of records..at 1 in the morning after having a flash about the almum cover and one other song on the record...It was on a 1957 Washington LP by Obray Ramsey called "Blue Ridge Banjo...Southern Mountain Folk Songs" Ramsey seems to be famous for writing "Cold Wind & Rain" which was done by the Greatful Dead"....He was encouraged to take up banjo by Bascomb Lamar Lunsford and given a banjo in 1953, and within a few years was considered one of the best players in the Southern Mts.

(BTW...the notes say "Though certainly not a folk song (its composition is much too recent to have achieved any widespread circulation....)"...etc, etc.....)....well, it has been 40 years, and I think maybe we ought to consider it one now...*wink*

Subject: Song of French Broad River
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 97 - 05:28 PM

well...this is embarassing...I have a handwritten copy of this song which I transcribed from one of my records several years ago...and now I can't remember which one! I have looked, I have done the required searches in the "Folk Song Index" and here...Surely in this group someone has this and can tell me which record it is on! I feel silly asking for a song which is 30 feet from me as I type...but I'd rather find it and feel silly.