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Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?

GUEST,Associated Press 13 Nov 00 - 09:25 AM
Jon W. 13 Nov 00 - 12:09 PM
Jim Dixon 13 Nov 00 - 12:23 PM
mousethief 13 Nov 00 - 12:23 PM
Mrrzy 13 Nov 00 - 12:40 PM
DougR 13 Nov 00 - 12:41 PM
John Hardly 13 Nov 00 - 01:07 PM
kendall 13 Nov 00 - 01:26 PM
Jim Dixon 13 Nov 00 - 01:41 PM
GUEST,Matt_R 13 Nov 00 - 01:46 PM
mousethief 13 Nov 00 - 01:51 PM
DougR 13 Nov 00 - 01:52 PM
GUEST,Stackleigh. 13 Nov 00 - 03:01 PM
GUEST 13 Nov 00 - 03:18 PM
kendall 13 Nov 00 - 03:25 PM
Jim Dixon 13 Nov 00 - 03:28 PM
Jim Dixon 13 Nov 00 - 03:39 PM
DougR 13 Nov 00 - 03:44 PM
Jim Dixon 13 Nov 00 - 04:33 PM
The Shambles 13 Nov 00 - 05:06 PM
ddw 13 Nov 00 - 06:58 PM
DougR 13 Nov 00 - 07:03 PM
Jim Dixon 13 Nov 00 - 07:13 PM
kendall 13 Nov 00 - 07:19 PM
Roger in Baltimore 14 Nov 00 - 06:58 PM
Roger in Baltimore 14 Nov 00 - 06:59 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Nov 00 - 09:40 PM
BigDaddy 15 Nov 00 - 03:16 AM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 15 Nov 00 - 04:15 AM
Chris Flint 15 Nov 00 - 03:32 PM
BigDaddy 15 Nov 00 - 04:11 PM
Willie-O 15 Nov 00 - 05:39 PM
Troll 15 Nov 00 - 08:53 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Nov 00 - 09:07 PM
Little Hawk 15 Nov 00 - 09:44 PM
BigDaddy 16 Nov 00 - 02:06 AM
Michael in Swansea 16 Nov 00 - 03:34 AM
The Shambles 16 Nov 00 - 06:01 AM
Seth 16 Nov 00 - 04:16 PM
Willie-O 17 Nov 00 - 02:03 PM
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Subject: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: GUEST,Associated Press
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 09:25 AM

NOVEMBER 12, 17:36 EST

Martin Sheen Sounds Off About Bush

VISTA DEL MAR, Calif. (AP) — Martin Sheen, America's favorite prime-time president, told a group at a California treatment center Saturday that he thinks George W. Bush is a ``white-knuckle drunk.''

In his speech, Sheen said he was concerned that the Republican presidential candidate never received counseling after a 1976 arrest for drunken driving.

``He's still in denial about it,'' said Sheen, a vocal supporter of Bush's rival, vice-president Al Gore. ``You have got to be in a program. I did not make up the rules about that.''

Throughout his campaign, Bush deflected questions about drinking and drug abuse by admitting he made mistakes while young and emphasizing that he gave up alcohol at age 40.

Sheen, who plays fictional President Josiah Bartlett on NBC's political drama ``The West Wing,'' said he is a recovering substance abuser himself and does not mean to insult Bush but to force him to acknowledge the severity of drug and alcohol dependence.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jon W.
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 12:09 PM

I suppose that Sheen knows something that the rest of the country doesn't? Even the dirt diggers from the Gore campaign?


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 12:23 PM

I think Sheen's opinion is possibly true. I am no expert, being neither a therapist nor a recovering substance abuser myself, but I think it's a possibility we have every right to consider when evaluating his fitness to be president.

People who spend a lot of time in therapy and in AA meetings DO learn a lot about the psychology of addiction, and it DOES qualify them, to a certain extent, to give advice other drunks. That's why AA relies so heavily on group meetings, sponsorship, and so on.

I expressed related doubts about his fitness here.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 12:23 PM

Actually I heard that Bush gave up alcohol at age 32, 35, 39, and 40.

"Shoot, it ain't tough to quit cocaine. I've done it several times!"


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 12:40 PM

Not to mention that if he has really had to give up alcohol COMPLETELY, a sign of being a drunk if there ever was one, he will fail to schmooze properly at international functions. Having a drink with the new prez of somewhere, toasting the battleship launch, etc. The only dignitaries in favor will be the Moslems or other teetotallers (not, actually, a bad thing, now that I think about it). Or even better, or if he does have a little champagne or whatever, he might start really drinking and then we'd have him barfing on the Japanese too, like father like son!


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 12:41 PM

Jim, please read your post again to yourself. You are making some pretty strong statements without, as you freely admit, any knowledge of the subject.

I think it is a travesty that the poster of this thread did not affix the letters "BS" to this thread for it is surely what it is.

Who gives a damn what Martin Sheen things anyway? Want me to dig up some statements made by Charlton Heston? Would he be considered a credible source, as the poster evidently believes Martin Sheen to be? No need to answer that question, I know your answer. They are both Hollywood actors who have a right to their opinions. That's all.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: John Hardly
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:07 PM

...I'm not a real doctor, but I play one on television...


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:26 PM

Gore dirt diggers? if this stuff is true, and apparently it is, they should speak out. However, if they are dirt INVENTERS they should be ignored. Sounds like an old fashion "shoot the messenger" thing to me.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:41 PM

DougR: Which post are you referring to? The post in this thread, or the post my link points to?

I suggest YOU read my post again. I did NOT say that I do not have ANY knowledge of the subject. I DID say, or at least implied in a manner that I thought no one would miss, that I do not have AS MUCH knowledge as Martin Sheen probably has.

Charlton Heston MIGHT have something credible and relevant to say, and I would not be opposed to you quoting him. I don't know. Is he a recovering alcoholic? That's a lot more relevant to this particular thread than whether he's an actor or not. (By the way, I happen to think he is a FINE actor. He just happens to have appeared in a lot of schlocky films. Did you see him in Kenneth Branagh's "Hamlet"?)


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:46 PM

Gore runs like a tree!


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:51 PM

This "you have to go through the program" argument is pretty commonplace in recovering-alcoholic circles. There are some who think you're not really safe in your sobriety unless you've done a 12-step program and go to the meetings religiously, drinking gallons of bitter coffee and chain-smoking unfiltered cigarettes while proclaiming how dry you are. There are other recovering-alcoholic types (a far, far smaller group) who think the 12-step meetings are unnecessary.

Similarly there is a debate in the same circles about whether you have to give up booze entirely, or can learn to drink in moderation (the latter opinion being tantamount to blasphemy, heresy, and treason all in one according to the majority).

This is a long-raging (and not likely to be "solved" any time soon) argument between two sides of a group (recovering alcoholics) most of us don't belong to.

Making political hay out of it is shameful, IMHO.

But what do I know? I *like* kim-chee.

Alex
O..O
=o=


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 01:52 PM

No question about it, Jim. He is a fine actor (Martin Sheen), MUCH better, in my opinion than Charlton Heston. But the reason I used Heston as an example is, he is a well-known conservative and Martin Sheen, as fine an actor as he is, is a well-known liberal. As such, it is not surprising that Sheen would say anything that came to mind (proof or not) about Bush's worthiness for office. I knew Heston slightly back in the late 60s and early 70s and though he would, and has been critical of Gore, I don't think he would use the same terms Sheen is using to critize Bush.

My favorite role Sheen played was the character in "Badlands." I have not seen him in "Hamlet." Although I made my living via legitimate theater the last seven years prior to my retirement, I am not a fan of Shakespeare's plays. Terrible, I know, but I just favor more contemporary works.

Sorry if I offended you.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: GUEST,Stackleigh.
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 03:01 PM

Let me be sure I have this correct, Rodney. Sheen is a liberal, so therefore he's a liar? (" As such, it is not surprising that Sheen would say anything that came to mind (proof or not)" Heston is a conservative, so he'd tell the truth?

You really are a nasty, bitter little gobshite at bottom, aren't you?

And you must have missed the loads of muck old Charlton has shovelled, and is still shovelling, on behalf of the NRA?
Cheers


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 03:18 PM

More to the point, Who give a damn- or a fart in a high wind, for that matter, or possibly a rat's ass- what DougR thinks?


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 03:25 PM

I do. after three marriages I now know that I'm not always right.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 03:28 PM

I do, too.

DougR: Woops! Another misunderstanding. It was Heston I was referring to as being in "Hamlet." He played a small role, the "player king," the one who gives the speech about Hecuba, and about whom Hamlet remarks in astonishment, "What's Hecuba to him or he to Hecuba?" (If you don't know the play, I won't hold it against you.)

Heston surprised me, too, just as the player king surprised Hamlet, because I had never thought of him before as a particularly good actor, having seen him only in such things as "The Ten Commandments" and "Planet of the Apes."

(Apropos of nothing, when I run "Charlton Heston" through my spell-checker, it suggests "Charlatan Festoon.")

Mousethief: I am open-minded enough to believe there is more than one way to recover from alcoholism. But serious drinking leaves its mark on you. Someone who has been a drunk for several years can't simply quit drinking and then pretend it's as if nothing had happened, that he's exactly where he would have been had he never taken the first drink. It often takes a lot of counseling, consciousness-raising, guided self-examination, whatever you want to call it, to undo the damage alcohol has done, or at least to make up for lost time. I would be VERY skeptical of anyone who says, "a 12-step program is unnecessary" without explaining "unnecessary for whom?" or saying what they would put in its place.

If certain terms like "dry drunk" or "denial" seem like meaningless jargon to you, I suspect it's because you haven't seen the reality that lies behind the jargon.

Anyone interested in learning more: See if you can get hold of a video called "I'll Quit Tomorrow" published by the Johnson Institute Foundation. (It appears the JIF is no longer offering this video for sale. I don't know why. They do offer a book version, which is also good, but the video makes its point much more dramatically. Probably a lot of libraries still have the video.)


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 03:39 PM

Mrrzy: I disagree that GWB, or anyone else for that matter, would be unable to schmooze properly without alcohol. Myths like that are one of the things that make it harder for drunks to quit.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 03:44 PM

Guest whatever: In your haste to flame me, it seems you failed to fully read my post, or perhaps you simply can't understand what I said. I did NOT say Sheen would not tell the truth. I did point out that he had a right to his opinion, and obviously a right to express it.

I can't help but wonder, were I to post a similar question to the one you asked about who is interested in reading my opinions, but, instead, who is interested in reading your posts, what the replies would be? I won't pose that question, however. It has been my experience that flamers on this forum are not well respected, and I would assume they would feel the same about your opinions.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 04:33 PM

In MY humble opinion, we should all just go ahead and express our opinions about Bush/Gore/The Man in the Moon/whatever WITHOUT arguing about who is or is not qualified to express an opinion, who does or does not show proper respect for other people's opinions, and so on. It seems like once you go down that road, it just turns into a piss-fight.

"The moon is made of green cheese."
"No it isn't."
"Yes it is."
"You don't know what you're talking about."
"Well, YOU don't know what YOU'RE talking about."
"Yes, I do."
"No you don't."
Et cetera ad infinitum.

Well, I'm not interested in reading all that crap. Monty Python did it much better, in "The Argument Clinic."

I know it's hard to ignore someone who has insulted you, but I strongly recommend that strategy.

If you want to teach good manners, the best method is by setting a good example.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 05:06 PM

Good try Jim, but

"Nothing worse than one who sets a good example"

Mark Twain.

Or was he a Republican/Democrat/drunk/actor/whatever and therefore not qualified to speak on the subject?

Why were Charlton Heston and Martin Sheen not standing anyway? They both seem to be able to deliver their lines and look the part?


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: ddw
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 06:58 PM

Being a supporter of neither Gore nor Bush, the one thing that strikes me about Sheen's comments and someone bringing them in here is what a small-minded bunch of twits politics seems to make of us.

Consider, first of all, that there are thousands — perhaps millions — of people out there who were hard drinkers and hell raisers in their younger days who no longer touch the stuff, but have never thought of going to AA or any other group. Not having the self discipline to do it yourself doesn't give you the right or the reason to assume nobody else does.

Consider also the apocraphal nature of the claim. Do you really think the national Republican party — which seems to me to have some of the most powerful (be that good or bad) people in the world backing it would throw their support behind a stumbling drunk? Give me a break, people....

david


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: DougR
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 07:03 PM

Duck, David!

I agree with you though. Some people appear to take the postion that a reformed alcoholic can never be trusted. I just don't believe that. I have several friends in that category and I would trust my life with them. At least he quit. From what I have read, we have had several pretty heavy drinkers occupy the White House in the past.

DougR


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 07:13 PM

ddw: Nobody said Bush was a stumbling drunk. Obviously, he isn't now. Maybe he once was, who knows?

But you don't have to be a stumbling drunk NOW to have lingering effects of having been a stumbling drunk in the past. I don't think it is small-minded to point this out.

If GWB were a private person, dragged into the public spotlight against his will, like lots of people have been in recent years (Monica Lewinsky, for example), I would say, "Leave him alone. It's none of our business whether he is/was a drunk or not." But that is not the case. As a presidential candidate, he MUST be evaluated for his competency. And we, as voters, have a right to consider whatever information comes our way about it. We are under NO obligation to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: kendall
Date: 13 Nov 00 - 07:19 PM

How many brain cells are destroyed with every drink of alcohol? I forget..:-)


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 06:58 PM

I can't resist chiming in. The vast majority of people who have trouble with alcohol quit on their own, no treatment, no AA. Not everyone can. It is not a matter of willpower. Alcoholism takes many forms and some definitely result from having a system that handles alcohol differently than most folks' systems. People with this form usually need some education and support to quit, once they get started.

When one has found a way out of alcoholism it is easy to think that that way is the only way. I suspect that is what Martin Sheen is thinking. I suspect his long distance diagnosis was flavored by his political view.

I wonder what Martin thinks of children of alcoholics who do not seek treatment for their dysfunctions (e.g. Clinton). I suspect he is not as harsh.

My ex e-mailed me a list of Bushisms and told me he was clearly aphasic due to his drinking. Of course she's from Austin, Texas now and has her own biases.

I suggest we all move on from here. My it still gets a little testy on the 'Cat, especially when politics comes in.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 06:59 PM

I can't resist chiming in. The vast majority of people who have trouble with alcohol quit on their own, no treatment, no AA. Not everyone can. It is not a matter of willpower. Alcoholism takes many forms and some definitely result from having a system that handles alcohol differently than most folks' systems. People with this form usually need some education and support to quit, once they get started.

When one has found a way out of alcoholism it is easy to think that that way is the only way. I suspect that is what Martin Sheen is thinking. I suspect his long distance diagnosis was flavored by his political view.

I wonder what Martin thinks of children of alcoholics who do not seek treatment for their dysfunctions (e.g. Clinton). I suspect he is not as harsh.

My ex e-mailed me a list of Bushisms and told me he was clearly aphasic due to his drinking. Of course she's from Austin, Texas now and has her own biases.

I suggest we all move on from here. My it still gets a little testy on the 'Cat, especially when politics comes in.

Roger in Baltimore


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Nov 00 - 09:40 PM

Anyway Martin Sheen and Charlton Heston are both much better actors than Ronald Reagan ever was.

But WC Fields would have made a much better president than any of them. And nobody ever accused him of being a reformed drunk.

If Winston Churchill had ever sobered up in 1940, he'd have surrendered, and then where would we be? It's the secret drinkers you have to watch out for.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: BigDaddy
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 03:16 AM

Someone once said, if you quit drinking, what you are left with are the same problem personality traits that got you started to begin with. If you are unwilling or unable to work on those...well...if nothing changes, nothing changes. It might have been a fellow named Ernie Larsen.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 04:15 AM

Yes, but what's the answer to the serious question: "What is a white knuckle drunk?
I have been known to enjoy an occasional social libation and maybe my knuckles go white when someone tries to take the glass, bottle or funnel from my tight grip. Is that it?
Roger the shkiffler.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Chris Flint
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 03:32 PM

I do sometimes wonder, do any of us really want to have our countries run by people as perfect as the press and various political parties seem to expect them to be? I'm not sure I would trust such perfect people ( if they can exist)

Chris


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: BigDaddy
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 04:11 PM

Roger the Shkiffler, a "white knuckle drunk" refers to an alcoholic who is not truly "recovering," but trying to tough it out (stay sober) without help. There is a huge community of alcoholics/addicts who believe strongly in twelve-step programs like AA, NA, etc. Over the years, these folk have developed their own jargon which can be confusing to someone not coming from that point of view. People who believe in such programs believe that their way is the only way to staying "clean and sober."


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Willie-O
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 05:39 PM

OK, I get it. I'm a "white-knuckle drunk."

Also referred to in 12-step parlance as a "dry drunk".

These terms are reflective of the cult-like mentality that many AA adherents develop. They don't mean "without help" , they mean "without the AA program" or something so close to it that it might as well be the same thing.

Roger's dead right. The majority of problem drinkers who stop drinking, do indeed change their ways without professional intervention or a self-help group--probably about 75%. Furthermore, most AA attendees go through a recurring cycle of "falling off the wagon". Many including myself believe that this is because the program sets them up to believe that they can't stay sober without "working the program", attending meetings, surrendering to Higher Power, etc. etc. Because the first thing they want you to admit is that you are powerless.

Fuck that. I quit drinking, because I wanted to, two years and two weeks ago. For awhile it was easy, then it got harder, sometimes it's still hard. (Not nearly as hard as many would have you believe, once you have the stuff flushed out of your system). What keeps me away from booze when I want it, is my own sense of responsibility to myself (and others, but it starts with me). I am much stronger for not having relied on a group, a sponsor, or a counselor--whatever supports you have, they are not always with you. But I am always with me, so it's pretty easy to give myself a talking-to when I need it.

By the way Jim, you don't have to go to meetings or get therapy to learn about the psychology and physiology of alcoholism, and if you do, you likely will be getting only part of the spectrum of opinion. You'll be exposed to more different points of view if you do your own research, crack some books and look up some websites. Such as:

  • http://www.peele.net/
  • http://alcoholism.about.com/health/alcoholism/
  • http://alcoholism.about.com/health/alcoholism/cs/non/index.htm

As for Bush, I dislike him as a politician, think based on the evidence that he's a dishonest, lazy, not very bright and distinctly inarticulate whiner with mildly redeeming personal qualities, and I deeply hope that he doesn't end up as the winner of the current vote-scrum. But I (obviously) don't care whether he's been "in a program" or not, it matters a lot more where he's at and how responsible he is for his own behaviour now.

"White-Knuckle" Willie-O


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Troll
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 08:53 PM

Right on, Willie-O. I'm a "white knuckler" who has been dry for 19 years. Guess I'm "still in denial."

troll


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 09:07 PM

I like the idea of Bush only being able to go safely to diplomatic bashes with strict Muslims. Mind, it's not quite the same thing being on the wagon as an expression f your religion, and being on it because you daren't risk having a drink because you might fall to pieces.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Nov 00 - 09:44 PM

Boy, politics sure brings out the nastiness in people, doesn't it? Makes you wonder why anyone would bother to run for public office at all.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: BigDaddy
Date: 16 Nov 00 - 02:06 AM

Right on Wllie-O and Troll! Having worked with a number of 12 Steppers for several years, it's refreshing to hear some honest talk. Don't get me wrong: I think the 12 step programs are great for those who work them and who they work for. It's just that many get the idea that they've found the only true "religion" and proceed to judge all those around them by their beliefs. I was being circumspect in my earlier reply out of habit of deferring to such. On a lighter note, I recently saw a bumper sticker that read, "I'm not an alcoholic, I'm a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings."


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 16 Nov 00 - 03:34 AM

Has he found an alcohol substitute in signing death warrents? Number 150 coming up.

Mike


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Nov 00 - 06:01 AM

Good point. You most probably need something to enable you to live with that responsibility. Or indeed it could drive you to it. Certainly would me.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Seth
Date: 16 Nov 00 - 04:16 PM

I was a drunk from a family of drunks going back several generations. Some of my family were people who got up every day and did important jobs responsibly, others ended up in shelters and on the street, and many maried people with alcohol problems of their own. Some of us went to A.A., some of us just kept on drinking. Since these are the people that I love the most, I can't judge anyone else andhow they dealt with it. I stopped drinking early on( before I was thirty) because I could see from looking around me wher that was going. I didn't use A.A., but if that works for you, then God bless ya. Now my son desribes me as a "six-pack a year drinker" and I can handle that. MOre than that is over the line for me, though.


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Willie-O
Date: 17 Nov 00 - 02:03 PM

Well good on ya Seth. To know thyself...

W-O


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: GUEST,Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 12:26 AM

Bush Still Hated by Everyone, Forever

For all the comparison's he would like to make about himself and Harry Truman (who left the White House with a high disapproval rating but history later proved him to be jawesome), George Bush has managed to outshine his predecessors in at least one respect: he's beaten every other president in history with how much he's hated.

"No other President's disapproval rating has gone higher than 70 percent," said CNN pollster Keating Holland. "Bush has managed to do that three times so far this year." Including his current highest-ever rating of 76%.

Retrieved November 18, 2008, from http://www.jossip.com/bush-still-hated-by-everyone-forever-20081111/

"George Bush doesn't care about black people." –Kanye West (African-American rapper, record producer, and singer).

Maybe if George W. Bush changed and learned to like and care about black people, the American people would not hate him so much and forever. In addition, maybe if Bush constructively aspired to overcome his hatred of black people, it would be beneficial in relieving some of the psychological strain and inner turmoil within—which would, if anything, risk exacerbating his situation as a dry drunk if not dealt with.

Submitted by Andrew Yu-Jen Wang
B.S., Summa Cum Laude, 1996
Messiah College, Grantham, PA
Lower Merion High School, Ardmore, PA, 1993


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 01:37 AM

Now why would he do something like that, liking Black people? He'd then have to turn around & have to start liking White people, then Lataino's, then Asian's, then American's, then on & on & on & on

Barry


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:32 AM

Mr Weng revived this 8-year old thread by 'retrieving' a message HE WROTE on the website he 'retrieved' it from.

However, congratulations on your graduating Summa Cum Laude with a Batchelor's degree 12 years ago.

(How many stupid--and I mean (Stupid')-- political threads can Mudcat support at once?!)


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 06:41 AM

There would appear to be no limit Jeri.
Sad innit.
Threads started and almost solely continued by one person, both poetic and political, are a pain in the fundament.

XG


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 07:34 AM

Word on the street is that Bush is still hittin' the pretzels (wink, wink) pretty hard...


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: olddude
Date: 20 Nov 08 - 08:41 PM

Seems to me here at Mudcat
sometimes, we will fight about anything :-)
we even make up stuff to fight about once in a while

but it does make it interesting


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 01:11 PM

I don't think GWB singles out black folks, in particular, to "hate." He is simply clueless about, and could give a shit about, everyone except the super-rich and powerful.

One thing we learned in New Orleans in the wake of Katrina is that, as far as the current Administration was/is concerned, we're ALL n*****s.

I'm not familiar with the term "white-knuckle drunk"; I don't beleive I've ever encountered it elsewhere. I had always associated the phrase "white-knuckle" with fear, not inebriation.

My favorite modifying phrase for the word "drunk" is "knee-walking."


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Subject: RE: Bush a White-Knuckle Drunk?
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 21 Nov 08 - 06:00 PM

It does make you wonder. A lot of the time, when I hear him speak, his
speech sounds a little slurred, and I've heard him stammer and such.
Especially when he's leaning on the podium, and sometimes looks like
he's trying not to burst out in hysterical laughter.
At other times, I can make out what he's saying, and he's standing up
straight and every thing.
He doesn't have a non-alcoholic related speech impediment, does he?
I do get the impression that he may be off and on the sauce these days,
but I am not condemning him for his alcohol problems.
Other than that, I'm not even going to touch the other topics in this
thread, because I'm keeping out of arguments.


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