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Ballotgate in Florida
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Subject: Ballotgate in Florida From: GUEST,Frankham Date: 17 Nov 00 - 11:44 AM Forwarded to me by a friend who has friends in Florida. ------------------------- Subject: Tate Nov. 13 Rabbi's report on voting in Florida Here is my own sworn testimony to the DNC -- Rabbi Richard Yellin. I came to my voting precinct at the St. Thomas More Church in Boynton Beach, Palm Beach County, Florida, at 6 30 am on Election day 2000. I was fifth in line waiting for the precinct to open. By the time it opened, about 30 people had already lined up, and by the time I exited from the poll at 7:15, 100+ individuals were waiting to enter a very crowded precinct area. I was fully prepared to vote my choices with my own pre-prepared list of candidate selections and referendum choices. I came early to vote because I had to be at my Synagogue, by 8 am to speak at a morning religious service. When I entered the precinct I signed the voter register and received the "computerized ballot." I went to a cubicle on a desk that had a "votamatic" platform which had a "butterfly brochure" fixed on the platform, with pages of the brochure to be turned sequentially so that candidates and referendum questions could be "hole punched," i.e., voted for. I followed the instructions placing the ballot into the slot so that it could be properly fixed and aligned under the "butterfly" so that the holes on the "butterfly" lined up over the computerized "ballot." At that point I started the voting process. I wanted to vote for Gore/Lieberman. I searched for the Gore "butterfly hole" and could not find it!! The arrows to the right of the candidate's name, pointing to the proper "butterfly hole" did not align properly !! I struggled to find the appropriate place for my vote, and tried to figure out which one it was by looking at the Bush "hole" and the others on the page. By a process of elimination, I chose the hole I thought was for Gore and Lieberman. I took 3-4 minutes to do this. It made me feel rather stupid, so I hid my stupidity, figuring that I voted my choice. I went on to all the other candidates on the next pages of the "butterfly" and the alignments to the proper holes were arranged neatly and to perfection, and I was out of the little cubicle (which was not very private in the least!), and I took out my "ballot from the "butterfly" and placed it in the ballot box upon leaving. As I left I heard 2-5 people complaining that it was difficult to vote for President and V.P. I did not have time to consult with these individuals because I had my appointments. As I drove away, I had a gnawing feeling that something was not right, with the blame on me. I had a sample mock "butterfly" that was mailed out before the election, and I looked at it briefly while driving and I saw that it did not look anything like the "butterfly" that was attached to the "votamatic." At which point I dismissed the experience and went about driving. At 7:45 am, when I came to my synagogue, (of which I am the Rabbi and Spiritual Leader), Temple Emeth of Delray Beach, a 2800 member congregation of retired senior citizens, our parking lot was a beehive of activity. A voting precinct is housed in our facility's auditorium, and it had lines waiting to go into vote. I went into my office to prepare my sermon and at 8:10 I went out of my office passing the voting precinct waving to many voters whom I knew. I rushed past the auditorium and went into the Chapel and began the service with a sermonette on the subject of voting and religious freedom. I told my prayers that in order to be religious, they had to vote, because political freedom is the guarantor of religious freedom. At exactly 8:20 am my speech was interrupted by a synagogue Staff member who said to me in front of the 60 people in the chapel, "There is a problem in the precinct," and he summoned me to the precinct. My 7:15 emotions began to gnaw at me again. I entered the precinct ahead of the lines and I was told by several people leaving that they had trouble voting their choice for President. In fact one person was crying that she thought she had mistakenly voted for Buchanan. I summoned the supervisor of the precinct housed in our facility and I asked her to get the butterfly ballot from one of the "votamatics" and to look at it together with me. Two or three other people gather around, and it was the identical "butterfly" that I had used at the Church. I said to the supervisor that the arrows are completely misaligned with the holes and therefore the ballots could not be punched, expressing with certainty the intent of the voter. She agreed, and I asked her to interrupt the voting in the precinct and I told her that the precinct should be closed until an announcement was made to all those voting, that 'the "butterfly brochure" was problematic, and that people should exercise great care.' I said to her that the supervisor of elections in Palm Beach and in Florida should be called immediately. She agreed. The phone lines to the election board were busy. She made the announcements, and I went to call all the media outlets in the area -- 3 TV stations and the radio station of record. At which point, I felt I did my duty and I went into the synagogue office and began listening to people exiting from the precinct who complained that it was an impossible experience, and how they think they voted for Buchanan by mistake because of the "butterfly." At that point, I too put 2 and 2 together and I think I may have voted for Buchanan, a vote that would be anathema to my whole political disposition. By 9:15 I had meetings in my office and duties to attend to, and thought that others had been sufficiently apprised of the situation and that it was in hand. Wrong, by mid day all hell broke loose in the media. Addenda: On Friday night November 10, I had planned to speak about Kritallnacht, the Rabin Assassination, and Veterans Day. Instead, before 500 people I asked them to shared their voting experience during election day. Several people got up to speak and told their stories that they had trouble with the "butterfly" in trying to vote for Gore, and they think they voted for Buchanan. (It is important to know that my congregation has well over 100 holocaust survivors, and no one would have knowingly voted for Buchanan. I took a referendum on that!) At which point several people in the congregation began to laugh at those who expressed a problem with the vote! I asked those who were laughing to explain their lamentable public ridicule. They said they voted, and it was a piece of cake. I then asked them to explain why it was easy for them. They said their "butterfly" was lined up correctly and all they had to do was follow the arrows for the candidates and punch the holes. In response, those who had the problem, said publicly that they had a DIFFERENT LOOKING "BUTTERFLY" AND THE ARROWS WERE MISPRINTED. I then took a tabulation. "If you thought the votamatic was easy to use, raise your hands." 50% raised their hands. Then: "If you were troubled by the vote and think you may have voted incorrectly for Gore because of your "butterfly", raise your hands." 30% raised their hands. 20% were unsure. The conclusion of this "Town Hall" sermonic discussion!? There were two different versions of the "butterfly" or maybe even a partial misprint of the butterflies used by many voters in various precincts of Palm Beach County. I tried the same experiment on Saturday morning to an even larger crowd, dispensing with the planned sermon, asking people to share their voting experiences. The Saturday morning congregation is made up of different people than the Friday night congregation. To my amazement the same thing happened again. People laughed, and slowly they came to the realization that there were 2 different versions to the "butterfly." The tabulation was virtually the same as the previous night. Conclusion: The real problem is the "butterfly" brochure. There were misprints in the alignment of arrows and holes, and there were bad "butterflies" hovering within and mingling with normal "butterflies," and the way you could predict who received infected misprinted "butterflies," was to scan the precincts where Buchanan received greater numbers of votes than expected compared to all the other 50+ counties in Florida. It just so happens that the Buchanan factor surfaced most within Jewish and Afro-American areas and precincts. As an Afro-American pastor friend of mine said, "there is no one in his congregation who would for a moment think of voting for Pat Buchanan." Buchanan subsequently went on air saying he knew that these exaggerated votes, close to 3500 in Palm Beach County, "should not have gone to him." The real question for these 3500 suspected votes: Why doesn't the government impound all the "butterflies" and search for the misprinted ones. The media is totally confused by this, and it is no wonder that the former Secretary of State, The Honorable James Baker, could hold up a normal "butterfly," and unconscionably imply, that elderly, Jewish, Afro-Ameircans, and Palm Beach County citizens, were "confused" (mplying 'stupid'). Mr. Baker, in this case, was really "holier than thou", meaning, of course Bush voters were not confused because their candidate was the first on the list, and you could not mistake punching the Bush "butterfly" hole because it was at the top of the column of holes, i.e., "holier than thou." I do not believe in conspiracies! I am a registered independent voter who learned as a child: "It is not who won or lost, but how we played the game." In this election, the voting machinery was flawed, not the electorate! |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Troll Date: 17 Nov 00 - 11:51 AM The ballot was designed by a Democrat. 'Nuff sed! troll |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Wolfgang Date: 17 Nov 00 - 12:07 PM Troll, have you read before posting? The rabbi in Frankham's post hasn't complained about the original design (made by a democrat) of the butterfly ballot, but about a misprinted version of it. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 17 Nov 00 - 12:19 PM Whoever desigbned it is irrelevgant. It may have been a mistake, it may have been a criminal conspiracy. It doesn't matter. Either way people were denied the right to vote for the candidate of their choice.
And a man calleed Geoerge Bush is trying to obstruct any efforts to find out what happened, to hold a re-run of a vote that should clearly be declared null and void - or even to find out accurately wehat the vote was.
In so doing, he has shown that he is not a trustworthy person. I am astonished that decent and honourable Republicans are not clamouring to be heard and to distance themselves from this squalid attempt to steal an election.
Just because he's your man you don't stand by him when he's trying to do something wrong. Isn't that what Republicans complained about Democrats doing in respect of Monicagate? And messy as that was, it doesn't begin to compare with trying to steal a presidential election and corrupt the constitution. |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Jim the Bart Date: 17 Nov 00 - 12:34 PM I saw Cheney and his wife on TV last night and, man, do I get annoyed by the certainty that Republicans have about things. Everything is so clear to the Republican mind - black and white. It's a mind set that leads to solutions to problems like Alexander's untieing of the Gordian knot. It's too bad some people can't deal with the ambiguities of life without trying to deny that they exist. Bart |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: paddymac Date: 17 Nov 00 - 12:53 PM It seems to me that there are three possible sources of error within the report presented in Frankham's post.
1. Printer's error. A fourth possible error source, where most of the attention seems to be focused, is in the mechanical reader process. For conspiracy buffs, yet a fifth possible error source could be some nefarious insider deliberately producing mis-aligned ballots and then carefully sneaking them into a "targeted precinct" and surrepetitiously mixing them in with the proper ballots before the voting process began. Assessing the relative merit of these error sources doesn't seem to have been done. Instead, partisan interests have attacked that part of the overall process within which they perceive the greatest possible benefit for their interest. That partisanship has created a situation in which the "smoke and mirrors" may well obscure, subvert, or even prevent, a serious effort to determine what actually happened. The interesting thing is the manner in which people presently infused and enthused with partisanship now seem to find it so easy to dismiss thoughts from persons who don't share their particular brand of partisanship. It seems to be a form of what a professor acquaintance-turned-politician once called the "struggle for advantage", the root of most forms of prejudice and apartheide in the world. |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Amos Date: 17 Nov 00 - 12:57 PM What is more awesomely arrogant is the rhetoric that the desire to get a correct vote count and a clear picture of the actual intent of the populace is a denial of consitutional rights and somehow illegal. I think bush shot himself in the...fuseholder with that one.
Unfortunately the confusion is spreading:. This just in from New York:
NEW YORK (AP) --The New York Mets announced today that they are going to court to get an additional inning added to the end of Game 5 of the World Series. The batting, pitching, and bench coaches for the Mets held a press conference earlier today. They were joined by members of the Major League Players Union. "We meant to hit those pitches from the Yankee pitchers," said the Mets batting coach. "We were confused by the irregularities of the pitches we received and believe we have been denied our right to hit." One claim specifically noted that a small percentage of the Mets batters had intended to swing at fast balls, but actually swung at curve balls. It was clear that these batters never intended to swing at curve balls, though a much higher percentage were not confused by the pitches. Reporters at the press conference pointed out that the Mets had extensively reviewed film of the Yankees pitchers prior to the World Series and had in fact faced the Yankees in inter-league play earlier in the year. "The fact remains that some of the pitches confused us and denied us of our right to hit," said the Mets batting coach. "The World Series is not over yet and the Yankees are celebrating prematurely." Major League Baseball has reviewed the telecast of all the World Series games and recounted the balls and strikes called by the umpires of each game. "While some of the strikes called against the Mets were, in fact, balls, there were not enough of them to change the outcome of the World Series," the commissioner said. Another portion of the Mets legal claim stated that, based on on-base percentage, the Mets had actually won the World Series, regardless of the final scores of the games. "It's clear that we were slightly on-base more often than the Yankees," said a Mets spokesman. "The World Series crown is rightly ours." The manager of the Mets has remained in relative seclusion, engaging in some light jogging for exercise. He has stated that he believes "we need to let the process run its course without a rush to judgment." Regards, A |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: GUEST,a Democrat Date: 17 Nov 00 - 01:38 PM Bush wants to quit the count while he's ahead, and his flunky, the Sec. of State will get a cushy job if he wins. He has never lost anything that money could buy, so, why should he start now? |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: mousethief Date: 17 Nov 00 - 02:09 PM "I get an election just thinking about it." --Bill Clinton |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: MarkS Date: 17 Nov 00 - 08:30 PM Anybody want to join me in a suit against the State Lottery Commission? I fully intended to fill in the winning numbers on the betting slip, but I got so confused with the small mark up blanks that none of my numbers I mistakenly filled in won. I should have won $ 2,000,000, so I demand a redraw of all the lottery numbers until my numbers come out. After all, isn't it my INTENT which is important here? MarkS |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: kendall Date: 17 Nov 00 - 08:38 PM I have seen that screwed up ballot, and, you dont have to be old or silly to be confused. If that shit head is so worried about a recount, why does he not consider the votes that would go to him? Ok, forget the machine ballots that were screwed up..what about the gangs of blacks who were turned away from the polls? |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Troll Date: 17 Nov 00 - 10:33 PM I guess it's only rfair to recount votes in heavily Democratic counties like Palm Beach and Broward. There were a great number of ballots thrown out in heavily Republican Duval Co. but no recount there. So Gore will probably win, and by the time he gets finished filtering the figures through his mind, it'll be the biggest landslide in history. The Democrats have stolen elections before using the same tactics so why not this one. By the way, I had no problem with the ballot. troll |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: GUEST,Uncle Jaque Date: 17 Nov 00 - 10:36 PM If I had a lick of sense, I would sit down and shut up. But there is a piece of red silk in this family taken from the bloody fist of my G.G.GrandFather after the Battle of Cold Harbor (June 1864), where he fell bearing the Colors of a Country he loved... and the stains of his blood around the bullet holes in that ragged swatch of red stripe are still evident. So forgive me if I show a little passion about the fate of this Country which may at this moment teeter in the precarious balance of destiny. Were those poor disenfranchized Citizens you allude to turned away from the polling place because they were black, as is insinuated, or because they forgot who they were supposed to register as between the school bus or van and the Registrar's desk? Or did some voting official recognize the name they gave as someone they knew, who they knew to be of significantly different physical carachteristics, shall we say. Now if these people provided legitimate ID and were denied the right to vote, that's a horse of another hue altogether, and certainly warrants a competent and impartial looking into. I have heard of instances of incompetent officials failing to have registration records on hand at the polling place thereby obstructing legitimate voting; that is unconcionable no matter who is responsible or affected. I think we need to be really careful to distinguish between incompetence, human error, and intentional fraud whenever possible, and I'm ready to concede that a certain amount of all of that is probably distributed among most, if not all of the interests in play, here. It has been my general observation that Democracy, alas, falls far short of perfection as does (this is going to hurt a little; ready?) Socializim. By the way, who was it who in 1863 signed the Emancipation Proclamation which changed the legal status of Americans of African/ "Black" lineage from "property" to members of the Human Race? (unfortunately, Citizenship and voting rights took a while.) What party was he affilliated with? Jeff Davis, who split a Union and ignited a war that ultimately left over 660,000 Americans rotting in early graves, muddy ocean bottoms or splattered unidentifiably over Battlefield and desolate wilderness rather that loose the chains of slavery; To which political party did he owe allegiance?. Who raised the "Stars and Bars" (Army of Northern Virginia Battle Flag, frequently confused with the official colors of the Confederacy, which they never were) over the South Carolina State House as Governor some years ago, then more recently joined the hue and cry as a US Senator blaming the "hate mongering" Republicans and Conservatives for their insensistivity in allowing it to remain there. Clue: Earnest HOLLINGS. Hatemongering Republican? Sorry; better check your Congressonal Directory. Who had the Congressional majority and advocated for, then passed the Civil Rights Act? Take your time, I'll wait. Who makes the most noise about protecting the rights, dignity, and autonomy of ethnic minorities, then turns around and legislatively perpetuates a generations-old cycle of ignorance, apathy, poverty, dependancy and futility. Who has actually DONE something about it? Who cut slavery's iron chains, and then who has exchanged them for bars of "entitlements" and chains of enculturated dependancy. Keep 'em dumb, (great job, NEA) and they'll beleive what you tell 'em. Keep 'em dependant, and they'll vote for who you tell 'em to every time you round them up and herd them to the polls. I'm saddended and disapointed that 90% of one particular "minority" group" compliantly obeyed "Massah" and obediantly punched the "correct" hole. Apparantly the ballot printers didn't have much of a problem there. They seem to have been gathered back to the old plantation and are residing comfortably with ole Massa' Al. Now if you tolerant and inclusive, open minded progressives out there by now have judged me to be a racist bigot who needs to be promptly taken out and... (I'd say shot, but guns are "bad"; no doubt some creative alternatives abound).. you may find it curious that my vote in the primaries was for Ambassador Allan KEYES, whom I consider to be perhaps the most brilliant Constitutional scholar, articulate orator, and competent Statesmen in America today. You have seen a picture of him, havn't you? Now as to the vicious, malevolent, underhanded, dastardly etc. Gov. BUSH (a 4-letter name, even!... Oh, yeah; G O R E... let's count that again!) "stealing" the election? What a shame! On the other hand, Bill DALEY, Son and understudy of late Chicago Mayor "King" DALEY, reputedly the undisputed master of "machine politics", current Campaign Manager for our illustrious Vice-Perpetrator.. now there's a true Patriotic American we can all look up to, admire, and trust impeccably to champion Truth, Justice, and the American way! A "Re-vote"? That would be entertaining, with all roads from NYC, Phily and Chicago jammed bumper-to bumper with bus and van loads of expatriate Florida Voters swarming in self-sacraficial pilgrimage to do their civic duty, all the way to Broward County. My how the chads would fly! They wouldn't even have to plug in the trusty ol' Vote-O-Matic! It just warms my heart thinking about it. Isn't America such a marvelously interesting place to live? |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Margo Date: 17 Nov 00 - 11:22 PM Uncle Jacque, I wanted Allan Keyes for President too. Too bad he didn't have the support. I agree completely with your assessment of him - Margo |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Troll Date: 17 Nov 00 - 11:27 PM Go to; http://www.regan.com Sorry. I can't do a clicky. troll |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: paddymac Date: 17 Nov 00 - 11:31 PM Keyes was indeed most impressive, but he never gained access to the $$ necessary to run an effective campaign. |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Margo Date: 18 Nov 00 - 12:24 AM Troll, I don't get it. Why'd you post that url? |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: GUEST,Bob S Date: 18 Nov 00 - 06:50 AM The Palm Beach (Hokey) Pokey: You put your stylus in, You put your stylus out, You put your stylus in, And you punch Buchanan out. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You put the Gore votes in, You put the Bush votes out, You put the Gore votes in, And you do another count. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You bring your lawyers in, You drag the whole thing out, You bring your lawyers in, And you put it all in doubt. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You let your doctors spin, You let the pundits spout, You let your doctors spin, And your people whine and pout. You do the Palm Beach Pokey And you turn the count around, That's what it's all about! You do the Palm Beach Pokey, You do the Palm Beach Pokey, You do the Palm Beach Pokey, That's what it's all about!
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: GUEST,Bob S. Date: 18 Nov 00 - 06:51 AM An Open letter to the rest of the country! Ok, here is the deal. We here in Florida have all gotten together and decided to hold the rest of the country hostage with these here election results till you come and take your parents back home with you! That's right, we're tired of hearing how good it was back home and how beautiful your children are. We can't stand it any longer! And where did they learn to DRIVE!!! We're running out of Depends down here, and it's gonna get messy. You want a president......We want the speed limit over 20 mph.....Is it a deal?......George W. you listening? How about you, Mr. Gore? Ya gettin this? We need a break, and quit sending the Canadians down here too! We mean it, We're not lettin the results out, we'll stall with lawsuits and claim ballot fraud, anything till you come and take the old devils outta here!
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Amos Date: 18 Nov 00 - 04:27 PM ROTFL, Bob! Glad to have the true story brought to light! |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Walter Corey Date: 18 Nov 00 - 09:02 PM I would very much like to send this testimony to some Republican relatives of mine who have been forwarding mockups of a "Voting for Dummies" cover (aimed of course at telling people in W. Palm Beach how to follow the arrows).Does GUEST Frankham (or anyone else) have a good source (newspaper etc)for this story? I know that Rabbi Richard Yellin is exactly who he says he is, and that his synogue has a web site here . There is nothing on the web site however. Any help would be appreciated. |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: catspaw49 Date: 18 Nov 00 - 09:14 PM Good Gawd Bob....Those are the two funniest posts I've read together in a coon's age!!!!!!!! ROTFLMAO and I think I have to get a new keyboard!!!!!!!! Spaw |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Troll Date: 18 Nov 00 - 11:23 PM Sorry about the url. I was trying to get you to a column that talked about whats happening from a statisticians point of view.Try www.boortz.com and scroll down to the news columns. I believe it is still there. Neal Boortz is a Libertarian who broadcasts out of Atlanta. troll |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: Lucius Date: 19 Nov 00 - 02:08 AM I'm a teacher. Sometimes a student does not understand my directions. If I recognize this, I restate my directions and give a second chance. Usally it is just one or two students. When a signifigant number of students fail to understand my directions, then I have to look at the way that I am explaining things. I don't ever call them dummies because it insults my intelligence more than theirs. Our fellow citizens do not deserve this ridicule. They deserve to have their vote counted. And it doesn't matter if a Democrat or Republican or Moses himself designed the ballot, it was bordering on the illegal, under Florida law. |
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: The Shambles Date: 19 Nov 00 - 07:31 AM If the count is close here, there is a recount and so on until all parties are satisfied. That does not seem likely to be the case in Florida. Whatever the result is said to be now, will not be accepted by about half the country.
It seems to be accepted that whoever wins Florida, wins the country. Why not just have a new vote in Florida?
After some agreement has been reached on the ballot methods of course. That shouldn't take too long, should it?
Is there now really any other way of settling the country down? There will be no peace if either party claims victory with such a small majority under these circumstances. Certainly not now if the lawyers and courts are left to decide.
Is that not what the people, of whatever Party should be demanding? Or can democracy loose as long as your Party wins?
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Subject: RE: Ballotgate in Florida From: GUEST,Fairplay Date: 21 Nov 00 - 10:53 PM Thank Goodness. The people who voted will get their ballots counted. I was sure the Bush people were going to close this off. Gives me a bit of my faith back in Democracy. It's even better knowing how Rush limbaugh will howl tomorrow. |
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