Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Joe Offer Date: 13 Dec 99 - 08:24 PM Although she still hasn't returned my entire collection of Jewish songbooks and CD's that I lent her months ago, Mrs. Lev partially redeemed herself today by pointing me to the Zemerl database of Jewish songs (Hebrew, Ladino, and mostly Yiddish). I rushed to this thread to post a link, and I see that Philippa posted it yesterday. It's a terrific site. Be sure to pay a visit. Mrs. Lev will be very happy if you do. -Joe Offer- (What will Mrs. Lev say when she finds out I've been talking about her?) |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Philippa Date: 12 Dec 99 - 08:31 AM Don't forget the Zemerl site for Jewish songs in various languages. It's very comprehensive |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Speed Date: 25 Sep 97 - 10:34 AM Jerry - The additional service is called Musaf and is part of Conservative and Orthodox services. I don't know about Reform and Reconstructionist. It is usually right after the rabbi's sermon and the Torah scrolls get put away. The congregation says the Rabbi's Kaddish, then says the Amidah, then the Amidah is repeated, (it's during the repetition that the Kedushah is said in response form by the congregation and the leader/chazzan/cantor/rabbi/whoever's running theshow), then Eyn Keloheynu is sung, and on we go until Adon Olam and by golly it's time to eat and we're more then ready, ey? The word ends with a BEGINS with shin - no right to left jokes, please - then nun then yud, then suf/tuf. I have a friend who has a Hebrew songbook containing various traditional songs for piano with guitar chords I think. I'll try to get the name. Speed
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Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Jerry Friedman, jfriedman@nnm.cc.nm.us Date: 24 Sep 97 - 05:50 PM Thanks, Speed! Apparently it's not my minuscule knowledge of Hebrew that's acting up, but my memory. I'd have sworn that a) that word was only in the prayer on the High Holy Days (maybe we didn't do the additional service, or I never went to it), b) it ended with a sin, not a tav (thav, sav, whatever), and c) that the temple I went to used the Sephardic pronunciation (in which case, for anyone actually reading this, the letter thav would be pronounced like a t, not an s). |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Speed-1 Date: 23 Sep 97 - 12:12 AM Jerry - The word sheynis,or sheynit means a second time. It is said as part of the additional service every Sabbath as well as on holidays. The entire phrase translation is: "and He will hear us in His mercy a second time in the presence of all the living (His promise)to be your G-d." This is found in the congregational prayer called the Kedusha. We also have to watch the las Hebrew letter which can be pronounced as a "t" or a "s". Modern Hebrew folksongs, will use the "t" and older folk songswill likely use the "s". That should keep us on our toes! Speed |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: rechal Date: 22 Sep 97 - 08:31 PM Oh, brother. Did I cause that all that trouble with my boldness? Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima maxima culpa. How did what I do effect every post after that, and how was it fixed? |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: RS Date: 22 Sep 97 - 07:06 PM To Jerry Friedman, It's hard to translate a single word without a context, especially when there are pronunciation variations ... if you post the sentence, or at least the phrase, that "sheynis" is from, I may well be able to help ... |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Shula Date: 22 Sep 97 - 04:01 PM Dear Speed-1, As you can see, it was Jerry F., so tell him already!
Tante Shula |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Jerry Friedman, jfriedman@nnm.cc.nm.us Date: 22 Sep 97 - 03:51 PM Your comment about "beta", Speed, is why I said it should be non-dipthongal. Unfortunately the sound doesn't exist in English (at least in any pronunciation I know of). I once asked about the meaning of "sheynis" in a Jewish prayer (that will be sung on Rosh Hashanah a week from Thursday, incidentally). Are you about to tell me? |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Speed-1 Date: 22 Sep 97 - 03:43 PM RS - Good point! And given the general know-it-all-ness of this group, you can rest assured SOMEBODY will correct you if you need correcting! Shula- who wanted the translation of "Shay-nees"? Jerry - looks good, but beta should be transliterated "beyta". And the guy on Star Trak would be "Deyta"! And I will see you "Leyta"!! Speed |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: RS Date: 21 Sep 97 - 03:54 PM I have a draft of Dodi Li, but will have to tidy it up before I send it, so it may be a while. For Erev Shel Shoshanim, the English translation I've included (separate thread) is very poetical but unfortunately _not_ singable. I wrote it out line by line, so that people who know a bit of Hebrew can follow the translation line by line with the original. For Hinei Ma Tov, I have just posted a Lyric Addition thread with some comments, translation, and a new gender-inclusive variation. Unfortunately there is no standardised transliteration format for Hebrew ... Jerry Friedman's list is a good guide, but not universal. On the other hand, the way I see it, if someone around does know Hebrew, they can help you out; and if not, well then no-one will know if you don't get it quite right! |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: dani Date: 20 Sep 97 - 09:47 PM Thank you! |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Jerry Friedman Date: 19 Sep 97 - 07:13 PM Okay. Vowels as in Spanish:
a as father
That means ay as in "aye, sir" Otherwise consecutive vowels (like the a and o in l-hitraot, or the a and i in naim) are pronounced separately. ' for the schwa (a German word of Hebrew origin, if I'm not mistaken): the sound of a in about, i in rabbit, etc. In modern Hebrew it often sounds a lot like the e. ch as in loch (the throat-clearing noise) This is good enough to give an idea of the pronunciation, but of course scholars do better.
NOW THEN. ("Good-bye friends, good-bye, see you later, good-bye." Not very inspiring words. The Oxford English Dictionary has shattered one of my illusions by claiming that the Australian "cobber" is NOT from the Hebrew "chaver", meaning friend, comrade.)
Hiney ma tov uma naim (I don't quite get the "gam", but this is something like "Here is how good and pleasant [it is] to sit as brothers in unity." A little more inspiring, but just wait.)
Lo yisa goy el goy cherev; ("Nation will not lift up sword to nation; they will not learn war any more.") As in "Hiney Ma Tov", you sing the same words to two tunes alternately (and maybe endlessly). |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Shula Date: 19 Sep 97 - 12:16 PM Dear Speed-1, When you give over the pronunciation and translation of Shalom, Haverim! maybe you could put in the transliteration of Hinay Ma Tov as well. This seems to me especially apropos The Mudcat, as it is a song of a repeated single line with changing tune, which translates as "How good and pleasant it is to dwell among friends." Come to think of it, these would both do nicely as a change of pace in the Women's Song Circle, nu? Shalom, Shula |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: dani Date: 19 Sep 97 - 11:58 AM Speed-1, I am completely ignorant of both Hebrew and Yiddish, though love the sounds of the languages and the traditional music. There is a lovely round in our church's hymnal, and I never was sure of the correct pronunciations. You seem awfully knowledgeable, would you mind translating for me and telling me how to pronounce correctly? Shalom, havayreem! Shalom, havayreem! Shalom, shalom! L'hitraot, l'hitraot, shalom, shalom. gratefully, Dani |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Bert Date: 19 Sep 97 - 08:59 AM Whoops that didn't work. Lets try a lot of them did that do it? |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Bert Date: 19 Sep 97 - 08:56 AM Try this. |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Shula Date: 19 Sep 97 - 02:09 AM Joe: "Besotten WOMEN" is it, now?! RS: Erev Shel Shoshanim is truly lovely, nice to have singable English, as well. Have you, perchance, the lyrics to Dodi Li, and maybe English for that as well? Thanks, Shula |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Sep 97 - 02:07 AM Trying again. That durn Rechal did a double "b". |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Joe Offer Date: 19 Sep 97 - 02:04 AM Let's see....THERE! I TURNED OFF THE BOLDFACE. UH, OH.....NOW IT'S ALL CAPS..... Oh, I'm just kidding. I couldn't resist. |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: RS Date: 19 Sep 97 - 01:26 AM "Song requests no sooner asked than answered!" ... see the thread I just posted separately for "Erev Shel Shoshamim". |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Charlie Baum Date: 19 Sep 97 - 12:47 AM |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Date: 19 Sep 97 - 12:42 AM Will this turn off boldface? |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: RS Date: 19 Sep 97 - 12:38 AM Can somebody please turn off the BOLDFACE? Thanks in advance! |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Alice Date: 19 Sep 97 - 12:34 AM My voice teacher (who is an opera singer) is also a cantor. She assigned a Ladino song to me that is an excellent breathing exercise. My copy of it is from a book of Ladino songs that include English translation and a pronounciation guide. I will get the name of the book the next time I see her and post it here. The song I had to learn is "Yo M'Enamori d'un Aire". I love it, but it is a challenge. Alice |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: RS Date: 19 Sep 97 - 12:24 AM Just posted the full words to Tumbalalaika on a separate thread. Erev Shel Shoshanim to follow! |
Subject: Lyr Add: TUMBALALAIKA (trad Yiddish) From: RS Date: 19 Sep 97 - 12:22 AM Well here we go; Tumbalalaika, as requested in the Hebrew / Yiddish / Ladino songs thread. This was from the Women's Song Evening songsheet I prepared recently - this song being on the theme of courtship. (I have posted a notice on the Women's Song Circle thread as well). TUMBALALAIKA Yiddish: Traditional / Folk Song English: Teddi Schwartz & Arthur Kevess ©1988
Yiddish: CHORUS:
Shteyt a bokher un er trakht,
Meydl, meydl, kh'vel bay dir fregn:
Narisher bokher, vos darfstu fregn,
Singable English translation:
Hear my tale of a certain young man
Tell me, my pretty one, tell if you know
Oh foolish boy, now surely you know ANNOTATIONS: [I use multiple sources for my song transcriptions, sometimes choosing among the different versions, sometimes indicating various options for the words & translations.]
Sources: Rise Up Singing page 26 The above translation is in Rise Up Singing, NFTY Shiron, & NFTY Shiron Chordster. Yiddish Songbook & International Jewish Songbook have unsingable translations, see below. Manginot & New Jewish Song Book have singable translations that I don't like as much so didn't type up. Per International Jewish Songbook: "This very popular song was first published in the United States in 1940. It has been recorded by many Yiddish singers since that time. Lyrics other than the ones presented here have also appeared. [Note: I J S only has Yiddish lyrics in it, plus an unsingable English translation]. These however are the most often used lyrics." Chords from Rise Up Singing: Am - - E / F - E Am / - - Dm Am / Dm E - Am / Chords from NFTY Shiron Chordster: Am - - E7 / - - - Am / - - - - / Dm - E7 Am / Shpil = play; freylekh zol zayn=let it be lively (per Rise Up Singing) A balalaika is a stringed instrument related to the guitar and banjo.
Translation from Yiddish Songbook:
Tumbala tumbala tumbalalaika
Maiden, maiden, I want to ask you
Silly fellow, why need you ask, Translation from International Jewish Songbook: All night long a young man worries which girl to marry without embarrassing another one. "Young lady, can you tell me what grows without rain, what yearns without tears, what can burn forever?" "Silly lad, a stone can grow without rain, a heart can yearn without tears, and love can burn forever." - R.S. |
Subject: Lyr Add: TUMBALALAIKA From: rechal Date: 18 Sep 97 - 09:23 PM Hi gang! Tried to post from home the other night and my browser just wouldn't behave. Anyway, Frank ITS, loved the song. It's a genre that crops up fairly frequently in folksongs; Scarborough Fair and The Wind May Blow Your Plaid Away are two English (or Scottish; leastaways, they're not in Swahili) examples. My Bubbie used to sing me a Yiddish song called TUMBALALAIKA. I don't speak Yiddish, but the English transalation is very singable. Far from being comical, this tune is quite mournful (as most good Jewish tunes are). Tumbalalaika Maiden, maiden, tell me true What can grow without the dew What can burn for years and years And what can cry without any tears Tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika Tumbala, tumbala, tumbalalaika Tumbalalaika (something Yiddish that sounds like "spiel ein balaika") Tumbalalaika, (something "frey something something.") Silly boy, the answer true A stone can grow without the dew Love can burn for years and years And a heart can cry without any tears tumbala, etcetera But my favorite Hebrew song is and always has been the one to which I used to dance with my first boyfriend in first grade. Simi ya-day-ach, b'yadi Ah-ni she-lach, v'aht shelli Simi ya-day-ach, b'yadi Ah-ni she-lach, v'aht shelli Hey, hey, Dahlia, bat har-ee, y'fay-fee-ah! Hey, hey, Dahlia, bat har-ee, y'fay-fee-ah! The transalation is: Put your hands in my hands I am yours, and you are mine (2x) Hey, hey, Dahlia, daughter of the mountains, how beautiful you are! I think the word is Dahlia, and I think it's a woman's name or sumthin'. But I just love the idea of a "daughter of the mountains," and the tune is so sweet and lilting. My "adult" favorite is Erev Shel Shoshanim, or Night of the Roses, which I don't know the words to but really wish I did. The melody is incredibly haunting and seductive. Shula, can you help? B'vakashah? |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Speed-1 Date: 18 Sep 97 - 12:16 AM Can a linguist throw in a thought? If you plan to publish transliterations, set your ground rules in advance: ch=ch in Bach, oy= oy (Oy!), u= oo in moon, etc. With a basic list, most will be able to enjoy the transliterations! With this in mind i= e in he, a=a in far, o=o in phone - L'Hit-ra-ot! Speed |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Laoise Date: 17 Sep 97 - 11:00 AM Shula, Thanks for the translation of Ladino. I didn't know that - my family have seriously lost their roots in that only the religious traditions and very little of the cultural heritage have been passed down. My mother's family is of Sephardi origins and it is believed they left Spain during the inquistion / Armada years. Ladino stuff would certainly interest me there. My Father's family is Ashkenasi, Eastern European, most noteably from Poland and Lithuania. I wonder did my forefathers play Klezmer in shtetls? So there you have it, I am just a regular half-breed! Charlie Baum, I've visited the Tara Publications site a few times and I've a CD or two on order of old (1920's) Klez recordings. I didn't know where to start re: books of yiddish songs etc. Thanks for this post. Looking forward to the Zemirot project. I wanted to add, however, that Clannad and Enya and many other Irish, Breton groups etc - sing in Gaelic which is understood in only a few pockets of land in Ireland (including West Belfast). Unfamiliarity with a language shouldn't deter people from listening to it. It seems to me that the Irish traditional revival over the past few decades has infiltrated the mass mind and it has now become quite acceptable. The Yiddish revival (Klez, Ladino, Hebrew) will also have it's day. Tiocfaidh ar la! (Our day will come, pronounced chucky ar lar) Laoise. |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Joe Offer Date: 17 Sep 97 - 02:59 AM Let's see if Mr. Fixit can do it right this time....There! Are we still in italics? |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Charlie Baum Date: 17 Sep 97 - 01:20 AM For Hebrew/Yiddish/Ladino songs, virtually the entire catalogue of Tara Publications is relevant. Velvel Pasternak is the head of this company, and they publish dozens (well, a couple of dozen at least) of songbooks of Jewish music. Many of them have accompanying tapes. Another worthwhile source to obtain is the Harvard Hillel Songbook, published by David Godine, with musical transcriptions by Jerry Epstein. In dealing with all of this material, the question of transliteration rears its ugly head. I've got a copy of the Beregovski book mentioned above, for example, which transliterates Hebrew and Yiddish into Roman characters, sometimes through the intermediary of Cyrillic. (It also transliterates into Russian.) The transliteration isn't even consistent throughout the book. I'm quite happy reading untransliterated source material in Yiddish or Hebrew or Russian, but I hesitate to transliterate it to post here. Is the sound at the beginning of Channukah to be ch or kh or x? If I use one system, and you prefer another, will you complain vociferously? Somewhere, I've got singable translation of zemirot that I'll have to post here eventually. (A project begun several years ago with some roommates after going to a folk festival and realizing that the Jewish stuff wasn't going to have the same widespread following as gospel music as long as most of it remained in a language that the folk festival crowd couldn't understand.) One of these days I try to post it, probably after the Jewish holidays. [Sorry for the teaser without actually posting the stuff, but I've been too busy singing the last few weekends to talk about singing in this discussion group; and Jewish Holidays are about to hit with a vengeance] Tzion go bragh! Charlie Baum |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: dick greenhaus Date: 16 Sep 97 - 11:33 AM Hi- I know a couple of singers who do Hebrew/Yiddish/Ladino material. I'll ask them id they wish to share it. |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Shula Date: 16 Sep 97 - 12:51 AM Dear Dick, all in good time -- working on Jewish material at the moment. Will post carols when someone puts up a seasonal thread. Frank I.T.S., Thanks! Sounds like just the sort of thing I'm looking for. Will begin immediate search for a copy. Dear Laoise, Love Klezmer, already know these excellent ref.'s; especially fond of the Perlman CD's. (Did you know he did a wonderful PBS special in the European birthplaces of the Klezmer music in these collections? Thought it fascinating.) Glad you posted, others may want to visit these sites. For some reason, Yiddish material seems easier to find than Hebrew, and both are easier to find than Ladino. Like them all, but will admit that the lovliest Jewish folk music I've ever heard was in Ladino. (For those who have never heard of it, Ladino is to Spanish, roughly, as Yiddish is to German.) Anybody got a lead? Thanks so much, Shula |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Laoise Date: 15 Sep 97 - 09:14 AM Shula, There are a couple of good Klezmer CD's out there with some yiddish folk songs. Itzak Perlman's "In the Fiddler's House" and "Live in the Fiddler's House" are two excellent CD's with a few songs on them - very theatrical. They are also good introductions to some of the top Klezmer bands in the USA, the Klezmatics, Brave Old World and the Andy Statman Orchestra among others. Some of the names of the Klez bands out there are hilarious: The Hot Latkes, THe Mazeltones, What the Chelm, See if you can find Ari Davidow's Klezmer pages, He has info on nearly every Klezmer band in existance, they are a real hoot! Below are some other linx I've collected: http://pyrus.astrakan.hgs.se/~kryp/klezmer.htm http://members.aol.com/shawnkugel/kugel.html http://members.aol.com/mazeltone/web/mazeltone.html http://www.geocities.com/Broadway/1791/ http://members.aol.com/klezme2/index.html http://members.aol.com/shawnkugel/kugelsheet.html L'chaim agus slan go foill. Laoise. |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Frank in the swamps Date: 15 Sep 97 - 02:49 AM Shula, there was a fella called Moshe Beregovski who had the misfortune to be a Jewish collector of folk song in Russia under Stalin's regime. My Darlin' has his collection called "Old Jewish Folk Music" published by University of Pennsylvania press, 1982. The songs are in Yiddish, which is Greek to me (or English, as spoken by some of the hillbillies I know), but the book includes translations at the end of each section. It's got a lot of songs, with music. A humorous one, sung between a girl and her suitor posing absurd challenges and ending with that delightful Jewish sense of humour goes like....
Get me a bear from the woods
I'll get you a bear from the woods
I'll make you seven children Etc. until...
I'll fry you up seven fish
I'll make you a ladder It's edited & translated by Mark Slobin. Good Hunting, Frank. |
Subject: RE: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: dick greenhaus Date: 15 Sep 97 - 12:06 AM Shula- So share, already. |
Subject: Hebrew/ Yiddish/ Ladino songs From: Shula Date: 14 Sep 97 - 01:53 PM Saw earlier thread started by RS on Yiddish songs. Would like to find more, in Hebrew and Ladino as well. Saw klezmer sites -- good stuff there; more could be even better, nu? Also saw Laoise's father's friends' parodies -- still chuckling. With High Holidays fast approaching, gettin' in "that ole time religion" mood. (Know some pretty carols to share, come X-mas; not all in the DT yet !) Thanks. Shalom, Shula |
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