Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy

Zebedee 25 Nov 00 - 06:13 PM
Ebbie 25 Nov 00 - 06:24 PM
wildlone 25 Nov 00 - 06:37 PM
Zebedee 25 Nov 00 - 06:54 PM
kendall 26 Nov 00 - 09:43 AM
Peg 27 Nov 00 - 01:05 PM
okthen 27 Nov 00 - 03:53 PM
wildlone 27 Nov 00 - 04:13 PM
GUEST,Fretless 28 Nov 00 - 01:49 PM
Wolfgang 29 Nov 00 - 04:12 AM
GUEST 20 May 10 - 05:45 PM
GUEST,999 21 May 10 - 04:01 PM
GUEST,999 21 May 10 - 04:13 PM
GUEST,JD 21 Jul 10 - 06:29 PM
GUEST 25 Sep 14 - 08:16 PM
LadyJean 25 Sep 14 - 09:20 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:





Subject: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: Zebedee
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 06:13 PM

The sad faliure of the Global Warming conference bring to mind the well known and oft used Cree prophesy:

"Only after the last tree has been cut down, Only after the last river has been poisoned, Only after the last fish has been caught, Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten."

Can anyone tell me of it's origin, how old it is etc.

Grateful for any info.

Thanks

Ed


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 06:24 PM

Whoaaa. I do hope we learn before then...

Ebbie


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: wildlone
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 06:37 PM

The only thing I could find is the it was said by Chief White Cloud there may be more on these sites or maybe kat will know more
click .

click .
dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: Zebedee
Date: 25 Nov 00 - 06:54 PM

Wildlone,

Thanks for the links - I'll try to follow them up.

Ebbie,

Scary as it sounds, the prophesy is likely to be true in as little as 50 years time. When insurers (who only care about money) accept it, it's time to worry...

Ed


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: kendall
Date: 26 Nov 00 - 09:43 AM

That quote has been haunting me for years. I am not sure of the origin. Sounds like something Seattle would say, but, I dont think it's that old.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: Peg
Date: 27 Nov 00 - 01:05 PM

I have this quotation at the foot of all my messages in my yahoo email account. I searched a bunch of websites looking for its exact wording. I will look and see if I have any bookmarks that might help.

peg


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: okthen
Date: 27 Nov 00 - 03:53 PM

I consulted my wife on this one and she is of the opinion that it was indeed Chief Seattle, she used several quotes from this gentleman but we heard a few years ago that they had been "forged" or "manufactured". I think it had something to do with the author of " the education of little tree"

am a bit fuzzy on this, look forward to more educated replies

cheers

bill


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: wildlone
Date: 27 Nov 00 - 04:13 PM

Here is a couple of links to Chief Seattle
"click" .

click .
and a couple for Chief White Cloud
click .
click .
dave


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: GUEST,Fretless
Date: 28 Nov 00 - 01:49 PM

Here's what the Washington State Library says about the Chief's speech: "The best description of the saga of Chief Seattle's speech can be found in an essay by Rudolf Kaiser: "Chief Seattle's Speech(es): American Origins and European Reception" published in Recovering the Word: Essays on Native American Literature by the University of California Press, 1987. Another excellent discussion appears in David Buerge's article "Seattle's King Arthur: How Chief Seattle continues to inspire his many admirers to put words in his mouth," appearing in the July 17, 1991 Seattle Weekly."

Chief Seattle's famous speech, whatever its contents, was not given in English. There is no accurate translation of his speech; indeed, there's no translation at all, just a number of fanciful attributions among which the most widely circulated are Smith's of 1887 and T. Perry's from 1971.

The Chief's gravesite in Washington State is worth a visit. Quiet, peaceful, environmentally intact surroundings, a dignified monument, and on the day I was there a nice assortment of offerings including a few packs of cigarettes, some bottles of beer, and additional gifts. Not exactly what we might associate with an early environmentalist, but there were no indications that the Chief objected. :-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Nov 00 - 04:12 AM

Fretless has said most of it, so I just can add a tiny bit more:

That's a fine example of how an urban legend originates. Seattle's speech was in 1854 and wasn't documented in a way we document speeches today. The first written version came more than 30 years later, in 1887, based upon memories of persons having heard that speech. If you know how reliably you can retell a speech 30 years later, you get an impression how reliable the 1887 text can be (the Cree citation above does not appear in this version of Seattle's speech).
In 1971, the speech has been rewritten once more to fit into an environmentalist conception of today. Perry's infamous 1971 version has e.g. this bit: I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. True as this may be (at later times), it cannot have been said by Seattle at the date of his speech. Perry has not even bothered to check the historical facts before writing his version of the legend.
The citation above is known as a Cree prophecy. No wonder it has been attributed to Seattle's speech as well by several authors not bothering to look into the first or later written versions of that speech.

Not checking facts, not bothering to read the sources, retelling tales to fit modern conceptions, that's how legends are made.
But I agree it is a nice legend. I love to read it. But I do not take it for true.

Wolfgang


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 10 - 05:45 PM

Thanks for all of the helpful feedback. i,Too am trying to get to the bottom of who should be credited witht this quote:

Only after the last tree has been cut down,
only after the last river has been poisoned,
only after the last fish has been caught,
only then will you realize that money cannot be eaten

When iFirst seen it with credits to White Cloud, immediately iThought, iDon't think so! iThought it sounded more like Chief Seattle, or someone similar, definitely not someone iHad never heard of such as White Cloud! ...but after reading all of the above entries, iAm still unsure. Some of the sources iFound call it Cree philosophy and some credit it to White Cloud, who was definitely not Cree! What gives?

...lovingly, tammy

...so hmmm, iAm back to square one, trying to accurately pinpoint who the quote really belongs to!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 May 10 - 04:01 PM

http://www.stevenredhead.com/Native/

The above site seems to be well-researched. It gives some words from Chief Seattle and many other seers, chiefs and war chiefs. There, the quotation is attributed to the Cree, although it is not specific as to which group of Cree. The Cree are mostly Canadian, but there are also `tribes` or groups in the northern US. FWIW


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: GUEST,999
Date: 21 May 10 - 04:13 PM

Pardon one more time. The Cree written language wasn`t invented until after 1840, so attributions to things that are olden or ancient would have been passed through oral tradition and mamories DO get hazy over long periods of time.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: GUEST,JD
Date: 21 Jul 10 - 06:29 PM

This quote like so many is as near as I can tell simply another example of romanticised revisionism. The white man still puts words in the red mans mouth that is. If it sounds like something that was written by a modern liberal environmentally aware individual, then it probably is....Native Americans have a cachet that many like to trade on...but the reality is they had no conception of environmental degradation and were extremely wasteful. They were simply fortunate in that the primitive living conditions they lived under kept their populations small enough that the environment could succesfully sustain them. You often hear the saying that native americans used every part of any animal they killed, the simple truth is that they HAD a use for every part of an animal, this does not translate into needing those specific parts each time they killed an animal....records of early settlers clearly show the Indians were quite profligate in their use of resources. Excavations have revealed buffalo slaughters by Native Americans where they ran so many buffalo over a cliff they literally could only harvest the meat from the top side of the ones on top, leaving hundreds to simply rot. Nice bonus for the scavenger animals but hardly sound wildlife management. The point being with their low population numbers it wasnt necessary to conserve in the same way we must, and they certainly wouldnt have sat around worrying about it because they did not live under conditions in which that potential was realized as a possibility.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 08:16 PM

It is a quote from Chief Seattle to government officials.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Help: Origin of Cree Prophesy
From: LadyJean
Date: 25 Sep 14 - 09:20 PM

There are a number of speeches attributed to various Native American leaders, of somewhat dubious origin. Jean Jaques Rousseu saw Indians as men in a state of nature uncorrupted by civilization. So, often, they bcome noble martyrs. I refer you t the speech of Logan, the Delaware chief.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 July 3:25 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.