Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!

Subject: Records on Vinyl and Wax, Oh My!
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 29 Nov 00 - 11:09 PM

On another thread, Murray corrected my mistaken assumption that "EP" is British for "LP" -- apparently on that side of the water they would release 4-song discs labeled "extended play", midway between a single and an album. As far as I know, that never happened here.

But it got me kind of nostalgic for the days of wax and vinyl, as it were, and I thought the subject of audio recording media might make an interesting thread topic. Then again, it might make for a very short thread.

Anyway, I'll start it off with a trivia teaser and two somewhat serious questions. (A) When you bought a 45 at your local record store (not a .45, that would be a different kind of store), the title of the song on the flip side was often prefaced with the cryptic annotation, "b/w". It took me years to figure out what that meant. But you all know, right? (B) My dad used to have a collection of 78s that were recorded only on one side, the other side being smooth and shiny. Anybody know who invented the flip side, and when? (C) I can understand (more or less) 33 1/3, but why 78? Or 45? Or, for that matter, 16?

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: ddw
Date: 29 Nov 00 - 11:30 PM

Mark — I was posting in the other thread about the same time you were. EPs were sold in the States. I've got several of them — some 45s and some 33 1/3s.

Can't say I remember the b/w notations — I'll have to look at some of the old records I've got — but I do remember the one-sided 78s. There were several of them in my mother's old crank Victrola. It was supposed to be mine, but got lost in the family fight when she died, so I'm not sure when they were made, but Mom and Dad were married in 1926 and I always assumed they were from about then.

As for the speeds of the turntables, an explanation that I remember only vaguely was something about finding the minimum speed at which the needles of the day would vibrate in the grooves to produce acceptable sound. The person explaining went into the physics of it, at which time my eyes glazed over, so I can't get much past that.

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: jaze
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 01:43 AM

I always thought b/w stood for "backed with" as the hit was backed with another song. But I could be completely wrong. Because I thought SRO stood for "Sold right out"!!

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: GeorgeH
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 06:53 AM

Yup, I believe b/w is "backed with", too.

And I think there's a "factor of 2" influence in the record speeds; 33.3 being ABOUT half of 78, and 16 being ABOUT half of 33 . . Don't know why they picked on 78 for starters . . (Of course I might just be extrapolating too far from tape speeds, which do go up/down by factors of 2).

G.

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: fat B****rd
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 01:28 PM

Sorry to get off the original but I believe SRO stands forlove etc Standing Room Only

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: beachcomber
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 04:19 PM

I still have stacks of LPs in a collection and would love to have them on CD. Not being too au-fait with the technology, how best to have them transferred??

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: John Hindsill
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 09:41 PM

I don't know why 78rpm became the standard of the record industry, but I do know that the faster the record revolves-as with audio and video tape, likewise-the clearer reproduction is achieved. The drawback was that that speed severely limited the time of recording to about 3 minutes for a 10" platter, and only somewhat longer for a 12" disk.

Attempts to slow the RPM caused lots of distortion. So in the late 1940s RCA and CBS tried to find a solution. RCA developed a 45rpm process, CBS the 33-1/3rpm. This was made possible by their technologies that allowed for fidelity at lower speeds. It turned out that both formats were able to survive; 45 became the standard for singles (and 4 song EPs for awhile) while 33-1/3 replaced the old multidisk albums. Eventually, 78s became obsolete. 16rpm was used primarily for talking books of the sight impaired and similar uses.

A side note on EPs: Often a label would produce a 33 album AND a 45 EP of the most popular cuts from the album.

John

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:22 AM

This question has been asked before on this forum but do you remember how many grooves are on 45 when the song is three minutes long ?? How about a 78??

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: MMario
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:31 AM

1 each. the grooves were a spiral.

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: Wesley S
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:49 AM

Exactly

Subject: RE: Records and CDs and Tapes, Oh My!
From: jeffp
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 12:22 PM

The 16rpm speed was actually 16 2/3rpm, which is exactly half of 33 1/3. Probably not a coincidence. If the 45rpm and 33 1/3rpm systems were, in fact, developed by different companies, it is an interesting coincidence that 33 and 45 add up to 78. Ain't numbers fun?

BTW, I have an old Monty Python album with 2 grooves on one side, making it a 3-sided record. I think it was "Matching Tie and Handkerchief," but I'm not certain. On the one side, you would get different material, depending on exactly where the needle set down. Good for freaking out stoned friends.

jeffp