Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?

DigiTrad:
HOG-EYE MAN
THE LIFEBOAT MAN


Related threads:
I give up. What's a HOGEYE? (141)
Lyr Add: Hogseye Man (39)
Lyr Req: Peggy in the garden? / Hog-Eye Man (2)
Lyr Add: Predecessor song to 'Hogeye Man' (29)
Hogeyed man (16)


Elise 30 Nov 00 - 08:00 PM
Allan C. 30 Nov 00 - 08:13 PM
MMario 30 Nov 00 - 08:15 PM
Elise 30 Nov 00 - 09:48 PM
Barry Finn 30 Nov 00 - 10:38 PM
GUEST,Uncle Jaque 30 Nov 00 - 11:05 PM
Elise 01 Dec 00 - 01:38 AM
okthen 01 Dec 00 - 09:59 AM
radriano 01 Dec 00 - 11:06 AM
Jeri 01 Dec 00 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,NSC George Henderson 01 Dec 00 - 02:17 PM
Margo 01 Dec 00 - 03:47 PM
Elise 01 Dec 00 - 07:19 PM
Rev 01 Dec 00 - 10:41 PM
John Routledge 02 Dec 00 - 07:26 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 02 Dec 00 - 12:57 PM
GUEST,Elise 04 Dec 00 - 12:38 AM
Kim C 04 Dec 00 - 05:53 PM
Joe Offer 04 Dec 00 - 07:32 PM
Snuffy 04 Dec 00 - 07:41 PM
Joe Offer 04 Dec 00 - 08:02 PM
Susanne (skw) 04 Dec 00 - 08:03 PM
Barry Finn 04 Dec 00 - 09:11 PM
Snuffy 05 Dec 00 - 08:37 AM
Dani 05 Dec 00 - 10:06 AM
radriano 05 Dec 00 - 11:41 AM
GUEST,George Henderson 05 Dec 00 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Allen Mordica 05 Dec 00 - 12:43 PM
Joe Offer 05 Dec 00 - 04:58 PM
radriano 05 Dec 00 - 05:28 PM
mousethief 05 Dec 00 - 06:13 PM
John Routledge 05 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM
Barry Finn 05 Dec 00 - 07:31 PM
Joe Offer 05 Dec 00 - 07:39 PM
Barry Finn 05 Dec 00 - 07:44 PM
Snuffy 05 Dec 00 - 07:50 PM
Snuffy 05 Dec 00 - 07:53 PM
Dani 05 Dec 00 - 09:50 PM
Troll 05 Dec 00 - 10:17 PM
GUEST,Liam's Brother 05 Dec 00 - 11:28 PM
Melani 06 Dec 00 - 12:08 AM
Peter Kasin 06 Dec 00 - 05:45 AM
GUEST,Erica Smith 06 Dec 00 - 05:10 PM
Elise 06 Dec 00 - 07:38 PM
Peter Kasin 06 Dec 00 - 09:39 PM
Melani 06 Dec 00 - 10:54 PM
Marc 07 Dec 00 - 02:12 PM
Joe Offer 07 Dec 00 - 03:36 PM
Marc 07 Dec 00 - 04:59 PM
Marc 07 Dec 00 - 05:03 PM
radriano 07 Dec 00 - 07:22 PM
Elise 07 Dec 00 - 07:36 PM
Rev 07 Dec 00 - 08:57 PM
Barry Finn 10 Jul 02 - 08:08 PM
EBarnacle1 11 Jul 02 - 11:11 AM
radriano 11 Jul 02 - 12:20 PM
Dead Horse 11 Jul 02 - 03:34 PM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum Child
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:













Subject: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Elise
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 08:00 PM

Has anyone ever seen or heard the dirty lyrics to the Chantey Hog Eye Man? According to Stan Hughill (sp?) it's a pretty dirty song, but I've only heard one "un-sanitized" verse.

I could always make something up... Could get ugly.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Allan C.
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 08:13 PM

There are some to be found in the thread, "I give up What's a Hogeye" (or something like that) found here:

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=11353#84030


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: MMario
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 08:15 PM

and in the DT is one version hog eye man


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Elise
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 09:48 PM

Already read the whole thread and saw the DT version. Looks like the DT version is the same as in Shanties from the Seven Seas by Stan Hugill. Read that, too. Any new info?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 10:38 PM

Captain Whall also includes this in his collection & referes to barges called hog-eyes & that the derivation of the name is unknown to him. He also says that "much of this shanty is unprintable but it was so much in evidence in the days of shanties that a collection would be imperfect without it".

Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: GUEST,Uncle Jaque
Date: 30 Nov 00 - 11:05 PM

Chanteyman Will PREIST of Baltimore knows some pretty "Salty" chanteys, including one of my favorites "Cruisin' 'Round Yarmouth", and sent me a "special" tape of some of them - but i don't recall "Hogeye". I wouldn't be surprised if he had it , if it is in existance to be had. Most people who could or bothered to write things down in those days seemed to have a certain Elizabeithan sense of decorum which constrained them from preserving for posterity most of the old "working class" songs, or versions of them of the saltier sort. A few of them seem to have survived, though, and might still be collected in certain seaport pubs if the moon is right and a round or two is stood to proper company. I havn't heard from Will in a couple of years, but might be able to dig his last known address up if need be. (PM)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Elise
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 01:38 AM

I'd be interested in your friend Will, provided I don't have to dig him up!

I think you mean a Victorian sense of decorum...Elizabethans seemed to be willing to say or sing anything, and write it down as well. (See Sir Walter Enjoying his Damsel or Celia Learning on the Spinet or When ere my Dame a Hedging Goes)

'Fraid my access to seaport pubs is limited to San Francisco. Haven't heard it there (yet). Maybe I will have to make up verses.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: okthen
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 09:59 AM

Elise, you could try Cecil Sharp house, I believe they have a website now. They may also charge a fee (?) they almost certainly have a copy, but (years ago)even if you went in person, some songs were kept under lock and key.

cheers

bill


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: radriano
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:06 AM

In Shanties of the Seven Seas Stan Hugill says that a good percentage of shanties in the book are cleaned up versions of the originals. It's too bad that the originals aren't available but if they were as dirty as Hugill says they were they would probably still be considered unprintable.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 11:22 AM

It is my understanding that the unexpugated version of this and other shanties were collected, just not publised, and there's hope that they will be someday.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: HOGEYE MAN
From: GUEST,NSC George Henderson
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 02:17 PM

The hog eye man is the man for me.
He comes a sailing o'er the sea,
With his hog eye,
Rail road navvy with his hog eye,
Row the boat ashore with his hog eye o
She wants the hog eye man.

Oh hand me down my riding cane,
For I'm off to screw my darling Jane.
With his hog eye,
Rail road navvy with his hog eye,
Row the boat ashore with his hog eye o
She wants the hog eye man.

Well it's Sally in the garden picking peas,
With the hair from her kyte hanging down to her knees.
With his hog eye,
Rail road navvy with his hog eye,
Row the boat ashore with his hog eye o
She wants the hog eye man.

Well it's Sally in the kitchen mixing dough ( duff )
With the cheeks of her arse going chuff, chuff, chuff,
With his hog eye,
Rail road navvy with his hog eye,
Row the boat ashore with his hog eye o
She wants the hog eye man.

Well it's Sally in the kitchen shelling peas,
With a big buck nigger in between her knees.
With his hog eye,
Rail road navvy with his hog eye,
Row the boat ashore with his hog eye o
She wants the hog eye man.

Well who's been here since I've been gone,
'Twas a big buck nigger with his sea boots on
With his hog eye,
Rail road navvy with his hog eye,
Row the boat ashore with his hog eye o
She wants the hog eye man.


The hog eye man is the man for me.
He comes a sailing o'er the sea,
With his hog eye,
Rail road navvy with his hog eye,
Row the boat ashore with his hog eye o
She wants the hog eye man.


Sorry About line breaks - don't knoew hoe to do them

Line Breaks
added.
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Margo
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 03:47 PM

Elise, if you read the posts in the above mentioned thread, you'll see that there is reference to "hog eye" as being part of a woman's anatomy. You wouldn't need dirty lyrics knowing that that's what they're talking about... Margo


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Elise
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 07:19 PM

Margo,

How would a "railroad navvy" be walking around with what you call a "hog eye"? Can you explain the line A hog-eye mate and a hog-eye crew and a hog-eye for the skipper too? Don't think it was pretty cabin boy syndrome in this case. I think male anatomy is more likely.

At any rate, the hog-eye question was discussed in a previous thread, and I'm really more interested in the verses. Thank you George, you've given me an idea. I always suspected it wasn't the hair from her head hanging down to her knees!

I just don't think that's so dirty it needs to be censored, but then I've got a keen imagination...

Thank you all!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Rev
Date: 01 Dec 00 - 10:41 PM

Hey Elise, I know how you love off-color chanteys! When I was working on my MA up at U of Oregon I got to peruse a collection that they have there. Robert W. Gordon was the first folksong archivist of the Library of Congress, he collected a lot of sea songs and corresponded extensively with Joanna Colcord when she was putting together her book Roll & Go. His notes and letters are in the special collections at U of Oregon. I don't remember if he had the Hog-eye man in there, although it's likely, but I do remember running across some other unexpurgated chanteys including "Cruising 'Round Yarmouth." There were lots of little notes written all over the juiciest lyrics saying "edit this for publication." It's a shame they had to do that, but at least the notes still exist, you just have to go to Eugene to see them. BTW have you looked in Legman's The Horn Book, or in Ed Cray's The Erotic Muse? You might find it in there. Although I'd say that George Henderson's lyrics above seem to be appropriately salty, and you know the whole fun of sea chanteys is making up your own verses. Hope all's well in SF. Rev


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: John Routledge
Date: 02 Dec 00 - 07:26 AM

The version quoted by George Henderson is the same as that sung regularly in Folk Clubs in NE England in the 1960's.

Usually two thirds of the audience were young ladies who seemed to rather enjoy the lyrics. Still it was back in the Sixties. Have our attitudes really changed that much?

Happy Shanty Singing GB


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 02 Dec 00 - 12:57 PM

Geordie Broon.

Now you know my secret - I'm an axiled geordie and I got that from a flat mate of the time Brian Gannon who unfortunately passed away about 15 years ago.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: GUEST,Elise
Date: 04 Dec 00 - 12:38 AM

Wow, thanks all! I don't know if I'll be making it to Oregon anytime soon, but if I find myself there I'll check out the library. I've been working on my own lyrics.

Rev, didn't know you were on here. I always think of you in conjunction with this song, as you had the best answer I'd ever heard to the question "what's a hog-eye man?" You said "I don't know, but she wants him!"

We might find ourselves in your neighborhood the week after Christmas. Mike has some job possibilities in SB.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Kim C
Date: 04 Dec 00 - 05:53 PM

Well, I don't know, I have a friend whose hair on her head really is down to her knees........ back in the old days, women wore their hair really long.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Dec 00 - 07:32 PM

This sort of thing puts me in a moral quandary. I know the right thing to do is to grit my teeth and sing the unexpurgated version of the song, but I can't quite bring myself to do that.
I'm so ashamed! do you think I have to confess to the sin of bowdlerism?

What do the rest of you with songs too salty to perform in public?
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Snuffy
Date: 04 Dec 00 - 07:41 PM

Sing 'em in private - among consenting adults!

Wassail! V


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Dec 00 - 08:02 PM

Well, Snuffy, it ain't that easy. I don't mind a little salty language, but I feel really uncomfortable about singing songs that are sexually degrading or racist. Way back when I was in Army Basic Training, I didn't sing along when the drill sergeants wanted us to sing,
I want to go to Viet Nam
I wanna kill old Charlie Cong.
And other stuff that was sometimes worse. I think the raunchy stuff needs to be preserved in print (and in the Digital Tradition), but I feel more comfortable toning things down when I'm doing the performing. Am I wrong? Is there a way to strike a good balance?
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 04 Dec 00 - 08:03 PM

Joe, don't be ashamed. Even Bert Lloyd admitted (in writing - I never met him) that he was too embarrassed to sing one verse of I Wish I Wish (the one involving a turd...).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 04 Dec 00 - 09:11 PM

Hi Joe, some lines you could print here but I'm with you, I wouldn't sing them to those I didn't know. I think it was Liam's Brother (Dan) who told me that Stan had mentioned that in Whip Jamboree instead of "ringtail" in the chorus it was really "asshole' & in taking some of the phrases from diverent versions of the chorus you could easily end up with something still unprintable like: "whip jamboree, whip jamboree, oh get away you black man don't come up behind me
whip jamboree, whip jamboree, Jenny keep your asshole warm"
I don't think I could prove that this was a traditional chorus but I wouldn't sing it even if I could. I was at a party held in the hull of the brig Carthaginian & met George Herbert an old Cape Horner, he could be salty & crass & sweet all in the same breath but if a child or woman were with in earshot he wouldn't utter a sound that could be taken for as crude, I suspect that their way. Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 08:37 AM

Joe,

I was talking mainly about "dirty" songs, not degrading ones. In English rugby clubs and the like you can hear large numbers roaring out songs with the filthiest words.

I'll happily sing these in the right company, but I'd never sing stuff like Johnny Come Down to Hilo. That's such a great tune, it really deserves some "respectable" words.

Wassail! V


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Dani
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 10:06 AM

Um, Barry? Joe? I'll grant you that these lyrics we're referring to ARE pretty racy/ist. However, choirboy demeanors won't wash with ME since the Getaway....

Dani (with all due respect)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: radriano
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 11:41 AM

I'd say that the situation would have to be pretty rare in which I would sing dirty lyrics. Suggestive is one thing but out and out dirty is another.

At our monthy shanty sings at the Hyde Street Pier in San Francisco the last session of the evening is reserved for adult lyrics. Usually this ends up being songs, rarely shanties, more recently written for effect. I have, very rarely, sung dirty lyrics in this setting and found myself feeling very embarrassed.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: GUEST,George Henderson
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 12:04 PM

Joe,

The important thing is not to offend your audience. Clever choice of the correct material for the correct situation is difficult. With salty songs like this it is difficult and I rarely get the chance to sing this but I love having it as part of my repertoire when the (rare) occasion allows.

All shanties were raucous and most extremely bawdy. These men were without women's company for weeks on end and it is understandable that they would sing this type of song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: GUEST,Allen Mordica
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 12:43 PM

For our TMLHA singing group in Norfolk VA, we rate the music by the following criteria: G- General Audience R- Rowdy Audience X- Extremely Rowdy Audience ("Hog Eye Man" fits this one) WRT not offending, we performed some "G" rated songs for a youth group at the Mariner's Museum about six months back, and one mom was unhappy that we mentioned grog and tobacco. It's kinda hard to find any sailor's music that doesn't mention them! Ah, well...


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Johnny Come Down to Hilo
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 04:58 PM

Hmmmm. Chanteyranger's predecessor Celeste sings Johnny Come Down to Hilo, but I'm quite sure she doesn't sing the lyrics we have in the database. Anybody know what version of the song Celeste sings? Anybody know of a recording of the song?
I've got recordings of Paul Clayton singing "Johnny's Gone to Hilo" and Lou Killen singing "Hilo Johnny Brown" - but neither one is the song I'm seeking.
-Joe-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: radriano
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 05:28 PM

Hey, Joe, welcome back.

Chanteyranger's predessor was Revel Carr. I believe Celeste was just before Revel.

I was a little confused looking for this song too. It might be commonly known by another name like "Wake Her, Shake Her" or something. I'll check in with Chantyranger and see if he has a contact number for Celeste.


Richard


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 06:13 PM

I looked for it in "The Erotic muse" but it wasn't in there under Hog-eyed man. If it has another title, I can look for it under that. If you can find out the alternate title, be sure to post it back here!

Alex


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: John Routledge
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 06:59 PM

I would be so uneasy about sanitising a song that I felt uncomfortable singing that I would not sanitise it.

There appear to me to be two courses of action.

1 Sing in a situation where you feel comfortable (If indeed there is such a location) per George Henderson.

2 Not to sing the particular song at all.

Option 2 would keep most of the people happy most of the time.

In view of the above I cannot make much of a case for bringing into the real world songs which I find as demanding as artificial sweetner.

Happy Decision Making G.Broon


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 07:31 PM

Hi Joe, I think these are some of her verses

A dollar goes from hand to hand
My gal goes from man to man

My gals' hair is curly red
Except for the upon her head

My gal died down in Tennessee
They shipped her jawbone back to me

I put her jawbone on the fence
An I ain't heard nothing from the jawbone since

an she probably does a whole lot more that I can't recall.

Now Dani, I know I'm capable of singing off color or racy songs but I wouldn't sing Whip Jamboree like that anywhere. It had to be Big Mick & Joe who were singing so much filth(hee, hee). You may have heard me sing the shanty "Priest & Nuns" but that's not to off color or I threw in my dimes worth of "Hares On the Mountain" at the getaway but only after I felt that I couldn't possibly get as down & dirty as the women folk once they got the ball rolling, so I felt ok to do those songs there, besides every time I do a vulgar version of "Blow the Man Down" my wife hits me with the rolling pin so I'm a little shy about what I sing & to who. Now to go back to my little cubby under the altar. Barry


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 07:39 PM

Well, I think Dani was complaining about us guys at the Getaway making use of the Ally McBeal Memorial Coeducational Restroom and Showers....


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 07:44 PM

Oh, Oh, no defence.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 07:50 PM

Johnny Come Down To Hilo is just such a superb tune that it demands to be sung. I suppose the one after that in Hugill's Shanties Of The Seven Seas could fit.

Thats "The Gal With The Blue Dress On", and the chorus for JCDTH already has that phrase in, as well as others "stolen" from songs such as Camptown Races, etc. I believe it was part of the shantying tradition to borrow verses from other shanties - some verses appear in many shanties.

I'll try a bit of folk processing and see how I get on.

Wassail! V


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 07:53 PM

Oops! Must lern to profrede! Sorry about the italics. I promise not to do it agin - till the next time

Wassail! V


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Dani
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 09:50 PM

OK, I plead innocence. Who's Ally McBeal?

Actually, I can attest to the spirit of chivalry present at all times. I think it was PJ who started the real bad stuff, or was it Rita? You know, you think you know a person after a day or so....

I think SOME of these songs are like all good dirty jokes. Once in a very blue (no pun intended) moon (oops, not there, either) you get an opportunity to sing/tell something that surprises even yourself. But the fact that we're talking about them at all, and their permanence in the canon, means that every once in a while... it's perfect.

I just discovered that the Nancy Drew series was edited and SANITIZED in the fifties, when the stories were reissued. They are now publishing reprints of the originals, circa '30s, and they are MUCH longer, supposedly better written (they would have to be), but full of racism, anti-semitism, all kinds of stuff that has fallen into disfavor over the years. I can't WAIT to get my hands on them! Wonder what Nancy and Ned Nickerson REALLY did in that convertible?! It's just funny because I heard someone wonder the other day how Nancy could have had so many adventures without A) a purse, and B) never meeting a black person. Now we know!

Dani Dani


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Troll
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 10:17 PM

Joe, just change "big buck nigger" to "Railroad navvy" and you've got it.
"Screwing cotton" refers to using a cotton press to bale the cotton. The loose cotton was packed into a large box. A large wooden screw in a frame with a square plunger attached was then "screwed down" into the box to compress the cotton; kind of like a cider press on a grand scale.
This was repeated until no more cotton could be forced into the box. this made one bale weghting somewhere around 400/500 lb.
I have seen one of these presses in operation (it was mule powered) and it was a sight. The screw was hand-carved out of a pine tree trunk nearly three feet thick and 30 ft. long.
This was in "Westville" a restored 1850's town located in Lumpkin, Ga.
I always tailor my songs to my audience. When a chantey group I was once in were booked into an old folks home, we changed a line in "Coast of Peru" from "Where an man buys a whorehouse for a barrel of flour" to "a tavern". Afterward an old lady came up and informed us that her father had always sung "whorehouse" but it was probably best that we had changed it as "Most of these old so-and-so's are real prudes. I doubt if some of 'em have ever seen themselves naked".

troll


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: GUEST,Liam's Brother
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 11:28 PM

Two of the shanties mentioned in this thread (i.e. Hog Eye Man and Johnny Come Down to Hilo) have long been favorites of mine.

I first heard Hog Eye sung by Ian Campbell, I believe, on a Topic 12-inch LP. From the very start, I was aware that there were traditional "filthy" verses to it. I've met people who have claimed to know some but no one has ever sounded really convining to me. (Most of the stories usually involve a bottle of rum and Stan Hugill, by the way.)

I first heard Johnny Come Down to Hilo, again, on a recording and it remains one of the very best renditions I've heard to date. Bill Bonyon put together a very fine LP of maritime song about 1960 and it's featured on that Heirloom record. I never met Bill but he was a friend of Frank Warner and a neighbor of my friend, John Baker, in Bayport, NY.

Bob Conroy, my singing partner, sings Johnny Come Down to Hilo and I'll ask him to visit this thread and put down his words.

All the best,
Dan Milner


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Melani
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 12:08 AM

When we sing at the Kid's Chantey at Hyde St. Pier, we really have to change ANY questionable words, including even the mildest 4-letter ones. I don't find it to be a problem--after all, a good chanteyman made up words to suit his audience anyway.

I think I only know the raunchy version of "Johnny Come Down to Hilo"--I've only heard Elise sing it. I myself do not actually know any dirty songs--I feel so left out, but it just ain't "me".


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 05:45 AM

I'll contact Celeste and ask her to check out this thread nd see if she might weigh in on it. Riggy sings Hogeye Man at the Hyde St. Pier chantey sings, and uses, as Troll mentioned, "Navvy" instead of "Nigger."

The dirty lyrics come out after 11pm at the chantey sings, as mentioned earlier, but under no circumstances is "nigger" sung. Offensive by any standard. On the issue of historical accuracy and public performance, isn't it historically accurate to just not sing the verse(s) with that word in them, and sing other verses instead? Every chanteyman picked his verses, had different versions, and made many versions up on the spot. As the saying goes: "Different ships, different long splices."

-chanteyranger


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: GUEST,Erica Smith
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 05:10 PM

Hi,

I'm new to the Mudcat but here's my brief .02 on this subject . . .

I sing a punkish version of "Johnny Come Down to Hilo" and the East Village freaks love it. I started from Forebitter's version: the verse about the seaboots (only it's an Arkansas farmer, thank you), the verse about the wife/jawbone, and "seems like everywhere I go / i can't get away from the calico" . . . maybe one more verse, but i can't remember at the moment.

Also sing "Sally In the Garden" in which the infamous Hog-Eye Man appears, but I didn't really know what that meant till now. Wow, thanks . . . it does make sense, doesn't it! This that will make an awesome tidbit to throw in at late-night shows. I'll probably add more verses from this thread! Thanks again!

Erica

ps. this is me: http://www.mp3.com/ericasmith. Just uploaded a twisted and (in my opinion) rockin' version of "Oh Death."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY COME DOWN TO HILO
From: Elise
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 07:38 PM

Gee, I'm almost speechless to see what has become of this thread.

I guess it's a personal problem of mine, but I'm not really offended by anything. I guess this kinda clouds my judgement of what is appropriate to ask for, but I'd really, truly like to know what the lyrics to Hog Eye Man are! Even if they're sexist, racist, and gross. If anyone knows them, I'd still like them. If you're comfortable sending them to me personally, that'd be fine.

I hope I don't offend people at the Hyde St. Pier. If I do, no one has ever told me so. I try to guage my audience, and if children are present after eleven I try to behave. I prefer songs that have a double entendre to songs that are blatant. I avoid songs that are sexist or racist. I think it's just a matter of personal comfort. If the performer isn't disturbed by the matieral, I don't think the audience will be either.

I didn't even know the version of Johnney Come Down to Hilo I've been singing WAS raunchy! Thanks Melani, I'll have to think about it. Or is it just that people assume any song I sing is raunchy, then don't listen to the lyrics? I think thats pretty darn funny!

I think I got most of this from Celeste, but I've picked up bits and pieces here and there:

A dollar goes from hand to hand
and my girl goes from man to man

Johnny come down to Hilo a poor old man
oh wake her, oh shake her,
oh wake that girl with the blue dress on
Johnny come down to Hilo a poor old man

Her eyes were blue her lips were red
Her hair was curly but not on her head

I tied her up in a 'tater sack,
She'll be true to me 'till I get back

She's a down home girl with a down home style (or my girl's got class my girl's got style)
for a dollar a try it's all worth while

Them Hilo girls they act so fine
they ain't got Jesus on their minds

Ok, maybe it is kinda dirty. No dirty words, nothing a child under ten would probably notice. I think. I suppose someone will tell me if I'm wrong.

Line Breaks
added.
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 09:39 PM

I don't think you offend anyone at the chantey sings, Elise. Even if you did, they are properly forewarned of the sexual nature of some of the after 11pm songs. My experience has been that the people who stay ater 11 know what they're in for, and love it! If there are parents with kids who stay after, then one's judgement comes into play. One time, I didn't notice a father and 10 or 11 yr old daughter sitting out of my sight range, on a night where there were some particularly doity songs being sung (no typo there). I went up to the father at the end of the sing to check in on things, after I finally noticed them, and his answer was - "Ah, no problem - she knows all those songs!" That may be a rare case, but again, it's a judgement call on certain situations.

-chanteyranger


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Melani
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 10:54 PM

Everyone who's there after 11 has been warned. And frankly, most of the Hyde St. after-11 stuff isn't THAT bad. Elise, I guess my definition of "raunchy" is somewhere between "risque" and "dirty".

Actually, the grossest, most disgusting song I ever heard was the Seadog's parody of "The Darby Ram" at the Valhalla Renaissance Faire. With the Seadogs, it's always after 11.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Marc
Date: 07 Dec 00 - 02:12 PM

This is changing the subject a bit, but has anyone ever contemplated the connection between the Chantey and the March Hog eye man, Published by Daniel Emmet in his 1861,Fifers and Drummers Guide. They definitly are not the same melody, maybe there is a reenactment fan reading this thread.

Marc Bernier


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Dec 00 - 03:36 PM

Marc, can you post the lyrics, or point us to them if there's already here at Mudcat?
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Marc
Date: 07 Dec 00 - 04:59 PM

Joe, there are no words. It's a tune or a marc called Hog Eye Man,h, it is printed in a book called"A Fifers and Drummers Guide" by Daniel Emmett & Geo Bruce, first published in 1861 I believe. The melody does not appeare to be the one I'm accustom to hearing used with the chantey. And I've allways wondered if anyone else has ever considered a connection between the two, as the chantey almost certainly has minstrel roots , wich is what Emmett was

Marc Bernier most famous for.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Marc
Date: 07 Dec 00 - 05:03 PM

I don't know what happened to the last post but there's a march by the same name collected by Daniel Emmett. Just curious I quess.

Marc Bernier


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: radriano
Date: 07 Dec 00 - 07:22 PM

Elise, thanks for posting those lyrics you got from Celeste.

I'd like to point out that the after 11 o'clock rule of the San Francisco Shanty Sing doesn't mean just adult lyrics. It's also the time when you can sing songs without a chorus or those longer ballads.


Richard


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Elise
Date: 07 Dec 00 - 07:36 PM

Thanks, Joe, for the line breaks. Much more readable. I swear I'll learn to do that someday!

Richard, it's just as well we sing the ballads after 11, 'cause it takes me that long to get the courage up to sing them! (Yes, I do get nervous.) I'm not sure it's fair to attribute those lyrics to Celeste, but it might be.

Melani, I would guess the Darby Ram parody was probably made up on the spot, in which case you can rest assured it will never be repeated. I guess ten years with the Dogs may have clouded my judgement as to what is raunchy.

As usual, not much offends me, even my disgusting friends!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Rev
Date: 07 Dec 00 - 08:57 PM

Hi Guys, Elise, I think you may have missed the raunchy lyrics for Hog-Eye man posted above by George Henderson - raunchy in a nice way :) I also think that if you're looking for THE raunchy lyrics you'll be looking a long time, because there is no one right way to sing a bad version of that song, only many many bad ways! BTW I do love your version of "Johnny come down to Hilo."

Now, Marc, that's very interesting about Dan Emmett's Fife and Drum tune called "Hog-Eye Man." I assume that, just as you imply, since he was a minstrel, really the first of the minstrels, and he was working with African-American idioms, that the expression Hog-eye man, came to him from another African-American source, possibly even the work song. And just as he did with so many aspects of his music and performance, he just appropriated the expression and used it in a way that he thought was fitting. BTW, say Hi to the folks at the Seaport. Rev


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Jul 02 - 08:08 PM

Refresh


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 11:11 AM

Erica, if you want to hear it 'as sung,' come to the Seaman's Church Institute on July 20, 8p to 11p, and join in on our monthly chantey sing.

There's a new book out, discussing both the lyrics and interpretations, fully annotated, called "What do you do with a drunken sailor?" Definitely worth a looksee.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: radriano
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 12:20 PM

Well, despite my earlier posts in this thread, here are some additional verses I wrote for "Hogeye Man" specifically for use after 11 PM at the San Francisco Shanty Sing.


Sally's in the garden, lookin' sweet
With her knickers pulled way down to her feet

Sally's in the garden lookin' to the west
A sailor's hand on her cuckoo's nest

Sally's in the parlour, I've been told
With a sailor pumpin' her cargo hold



Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Dirty Hog eye man?
From: Dead Horse
Date: 11 Jul 02 - 03:34 PM

My favourite shanty is Johnny Come Down To Hilo, and I fail to find anything *racist* in it. As far as I know, it was composed by negroes, and was certainly sung by negroes. To alter the words of this, or any other song to something more politically correct does those fellows a grave disservice IMHO.
On the other hand, I'm not sure as I would feel comfortable singing those songs at a Black Panther OR a KKK gathering. Come to think of it, I wouldn't feel comfortable doing ANYTHING at such gatherings.
I think I'll just stick to folkie meets!!!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 22 May 10:15 PM EDT

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 2022 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.