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Lyr Add: The original Waltzing Matilda

DigiTrad:
MARCHING THROUGH ROCHESTER
THE BAND PLAYED WALTZING MATILDA
THE BAND PLAYED WALTZING MATILDA (2)
WALKING A BULLDOG
WALTZING MATILDA


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Jim Dixon 05 Dec 00 - 04:56 PM
Alan of Australia 06 Dec 00 - 03:03 AM
GUEST,Mary Stuart 05 Jan 06 - 05:37 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jan 06 - 06:09 PM
Bill D 05 Jan 06 - 06:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Jan 06 - 07:01 PM
GUEST,charmaine 18 May 06 - 07:58 AM
BuckMulligan 18 May 06 - 08:08 AM
George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca 18 May 06 - 08:19 AM
Bill D 18 May 06 - 10:17 AM
GUEST 04 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM
dick greenhaus 04 Mar 07 - 12:31 PM
Malcolm Douglas 04 Mar 07 - 01:21 PM
The Fooles Troupe 04 Mar 07 - 08:13 PM
bubblyrat 05 Mar 07 - 06:30 AM
aussiebloke 06 Mar 07 - 05:16 AM
aussiebloke 06 Mar 07 - 05:55 AM
aussiebloke 06 Mar 07 - 08:43 AM
GUEST,Mike 05 Sep 10 - 03:55 PM
Bob Bolton 06 Oct 10 - 10:56 PM
Andrez 26 May 11 - 08:57 PM
Bob Bolton 10 Jul 11 - 11:48 PM
Fergie 11 Jul 11 - 11:59 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 11 Jul 11 - 01:23 PM
Bob Bolton 11 Jul 11 - 08:05 PM
Bob Bolton 12 Jul 11 - 01:01 AM
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Subject: The original WALTZING MATILDA ^^
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 04:56 PM

Found at Waltzing Matilda Story:

WALTZING MATILDA (Original)
(Andrew Barton "Banjo" Paterson, 1895)

Oh, there once was a swagman camped in the billabong,
Under the shade of a coolibah tree,
And he sang as he looked at the old billy boiling,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

(Chorus:) Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda my darling,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?
Waltzing Matilda and leading a waterbag,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me?

Down came the jumbuck to drink at the water-hole,
Up jumped the swagman and grabbed him with glee,
And he sang as he put him away in his tucker-bag,
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me.

Up came the Squatter a-riding his thoroughbred,
Up came Policemen - one, two and three,
Whose is that jumbuck you've got in the tucker-bag?
You'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me.

The swagman he up and he jumped in the water-hole,
Drowning himself by the coolibah tree,
And his ghost may be heard as it sings by the billabong,
Who'll come a-waltzing Matilda with me? ^^


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 03:03 AM

G'day,
There was an extensive thread on this a while ago, including the lyrics above. Check out the Craigielea/Waltzing Matilda thread.

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: GUEST,Mary Stuart
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 05:37 PM

Can you supply me with the name of the composer of the words and the music and the story of how or why it was written?, I wish to give a talk or power point to some elderly folk. It would be much appreciated. Thank you very much , Mayry Stuart mastuart@wetserv.net.au


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:09 PM

Check the older threads. The story, including posts by Bob Bolton and other Australian experts, is preserved at Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 06:18 PM

this thread


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Jan 06 - 07:01 PM

Guest needs only to click on the threads at the head of this one.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Waltzing Matilda ("Banjo" Paterson)
From: GUEST,charmaine
Date: 18 May 06 - 07:58 AM

im a student in year 8 secondary and was wondering what this poem was actually about as we have 2 do a critiqe about it


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Waltzing Matilda ("Banjo" Paterson)
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 18 May 06 - 08:08 AM

Song of the outback. Eternal conflict between the forces of civilization and the wandering spirit, over a swiped jumbuck. Plug "waltzing matilda" into Google and start plowing through the hits.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Waltzing Matilda ("Banjo" Paterson)
From: George Seto - af221@chebucto.ns.ca
Date: 18 May 06 - 08:19 AM

Both in the threads as listed at the top, and at several great web-sites you can find the various thoughts. Not quite sure whether I believe any of them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Waltzing Matilda ("Banjo" Paterson)
From: Bill D
Date: 18 May 06 - 10:17 AM

All one can do is read, speculate, and sing. There is lots to read, speculation is interminable.....so just singing it is the final recourse.

Click on the thread I mention above and get started.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 11:54 AM

Some of you maybe interested to know the tune most people sing for waltzing matilda came from an english recruitment song and so went to autralia rather ironically with the deserters who were then deported.
I believe it goes something like: "Who will join us? Who will join us who will join us? Who will join old Malbrough and me? So we'll march through the streets and alleyways of Rochester singing, Who will join the Duke of Malbrough and me."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 12:31 PM

Sorry, but the "old English recruiting song" came considerably later.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 01:21 PM

The probability, given existing evidence, is that 'The Bold Fusilier' (of which only a fragment survives; the bulk of the song is a modern composition) started out as a parody of 'Waltzing Matilda' rather than the other way around. See, for example, other discussions here where the matter has been touched upon, particularly

Craigielee/Waltzing Matilda

Marching through Rochester

There are two DT files under different titles; both correctly credit the writer (Pete Coe) but neglect to mention that he wrote his song based upon an existing fragment (one verse and chorus, first published, it appears, in The Sydney Bulletin, 1941) of uncertain origin, but of which there is no evidence prior to 'Waltzing Matilda':

COME BE A SOLDIER FOR MARLBORO [sic] AND ME

MARCHING THROUGH ROCHESTER

See also the entry at the  Traditional Ballad Index, substantially revised since an earlier, very inaccurate, version was posted (to the amusement of our Australian experts) in an old thread here.

Waltzing Matilda


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 04 Mar 07 - 08:13 PM

I came across a clever parody story which claims among many things, that there was only ONE trooper - serial number 123, etc.... anybody got it - it might be here at Mudcat somewhere...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: bubblyrat
Date: 05 Mar 07 - 06:30 AM

Rolf Harris has pulled the song to pieces, and now reckons that "jumbuck" is not a creature or animal at all, but is ,rather, the Aborigine word for " rubbish" or "junk". At least, that"s what he said last time I saw him in concert ( Sidmouth )


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Subject: Origin of the word 'jumbuck'
From: aussiebloke
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 05:16 AM

G'day all...

My understanding of the etymolgy of 'jumbuck' was that the aboriginals from east coast of Australia, having no prior knowledge of sheep until the whiteman came, had no word for sheep, and used their word for 'small white fluffy cloud' as their name for the new animal. That is how I have explained it if asked; dunno where I learned that story - I'll think on that.

The results from googling 'jumbuck' reveal a couple of reference to something similar; not the precise wording which I learned long ago: 'small white fluffy cloud', but two references to the phrase 'white mist preceding a shower'.

I had the cloud connection, but the wrong type of cloud; the references suggest that the word was southeastern in origin, possibly from the Kamilaroi people.

jumbuck is not listed in the on-line Kamilaroi/Gamilaraay Dictionary. Their word for cloud is listed as yuru.

I will alert the Department of Linguistics, University of Melbourne of this thread and invite their comments.


http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/jumbuck

jumbuck (plural jumbucks)

Etymology

1966 Sidney J. Baker, The Australian Language, second edition, notes two possible origins for the word. Firstly A. Meston of Brisbane in 1896 cites Aboriginal words jimba, jombock, dombock and dumbog all meaning white mist preceding a shower, which a flock of sheep resembles. Secondly Charles Harpur in a hand written footnote in his papers cites Aboriginal word junbuc (or jimbuc, his handwriting is unclear) which is a kind of kangaroo or wallaby, and states that the aborigines of the Hunter region call the sheep that for the hairiness of one and the wooliness of the other.

Noun
(Australian English) A sheep.
"Along came a jumbuck to drink at the billabong, ..."
Waltzing Matilda, Banjo Paterson


Australian National University Dictionary Centre
http://www.anu.edu.au/andc/res/aewords/aewords_hr.php

jumbuck

Jumbuck is an Australian word for a 'sheep'. It is best known from Banjo Paterson's use of it in Waltzing Matilda.

The two earliest appearances of the term show Aborigines using it in pidgin English:

1824 Methodist Missionary Society Records: To two Brothers of mine, these monsters exposed several pieces of human flesh, exclaiming as they smacked their lips and stroked their breasts, 'boodjerry patta! murry boodjerry - fat as jimbuck!!' i.e. good food, very good, fat as mutton.

1842 Port Phillip Patriot 19 July: The villains laughed at and mocked us, roaring out 'plenty sheepy', 'plenty jumbuck', (another name of theirs for sheep).

The origin of the word is not known. It may possibly be from an Aboriginal language, or it may be an Aboriginal alteration of an English phrase such as jump up. Some suggested etymologies are very fanciful indeed. In 1896 a writer in the Bulletin suggested:

The word 'jumbuck' for sheep appears originally as jimba, jombock, dambock, and dumbog. In each case it meant the white mist preceding a shower, to which a flock of sheep bore a strong resemblance. It seemed the only thing the aboriginal imagination could compare it to.

Whatever the case, jumbuck was a prominent word in the pidgin used by early settlers and Aborigines to communicate with one another, and was thence borrowed into many Australian Aboriginal languages as the name for the introduced animal, the sheep.

It also found its way into Australian English as a word for `sheep':

1847 Melbourne Argus 22 October: Shearing is the great card of the season, and no settler being the owner of jumbucks can give a straight answer upon any other, than this all absorbing topic.

1981 P. Barton, Bastards I have Known: My favourite was a little grey mare that ... knew more about handling sheep than most sheep dogs. She sensed the first day I was on her that I was a novice with the jumbucks.


http://www.thefreedictionary.com/jumbucks
http://www.answers.com/topic/jumbuck

jum·buck (jum'buk')

n. Australian.
A sheep.

Australian pidgin, perhaps from Kamilaroi (Aboriginal language of southeast Australia)


The word jumbuck is apparently approved for use in scrabble and other word games, according to http://www.morewords.com/word/jumbuck/


Cheers all

aussiebloke


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: aussiebloke
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 05:55 AM

To: Department of Linguistics
University of Melbourne Australia

Subject: Origin of 'jumbuck' as used to mean 'sheep'

G'day Peter

Researching for a discussion thread at http://www.mudcat.org/ has led me to you...

We were discussing the origin and meanings of the words used in Waltzing Matilda,
including jumbuck, meaning sheep, and found two references in online dictionaries
( http://www.thefreedictionary.com/jumbucks & http://www.answers.com/topic/jumbuck )
stating that jumbuck was a word of possible Kamilaroi origin.

I could not find it listed in your on-line Kamilaroi/Gamilaraay Dictionary.
at http://coombs.anu.edu.au/WWWVLPages/AborigPages/LANG/GAMDICT/GAMDICTF.HTM

The word for cloud there is listed as yuru.

I have found references to:
junbuc jimbuc jimba, jombock, dombock, dumbog
meaning: white mist preceding a shower

I had previously heard this expressed as
small white fluffy cloud.

Can you provide opinion on this please?

The full thread is here:
http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=28379

Please feel free to join the discussion, or reply to me direct if you prefer.

Cheers

aussiebloke
Darwin NT


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: aussiebloke
Date: 06 Mar 07 - 08:43 AM

There is a word listed in the Kamilaroi dictionary for sheep: thimba.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: GUEST,Mike
Date: 05 Sep 10 - 03:55 PM

I have a 1936 copy of The Oxford Choral Songs featuring Waltzing Matilda. Words and melody reprinted by permission of Messrs. Allan & Co. Prop.Ltd, Melbourne.The origin of the song and music is described by one Thomas Wood in his book "Cobber", as follows: "Yes, "Banjo" Paterson used to stay with old Robert McPherson out at Dagworth Station, years ago.They were driving into Winton (Queensland) one day, in the buggy, along with McPherson's sister and Jack Lawton, the drover. He's told me a tale, many a time. On the way they passed a man carrying swag. "That's what we call 'Waltzing Matilda' in these parts, said McPherson; and "Banjo" Paterson was so struck with the phase that he got a piece of paper and wrote verses there and then. When they go to Winton, his sister, who was a bit of a musician, wrote the tune: and they sang it all night" The tune was attributed to Maria Cowan, the words A.B.Patterson

Swagman= a man on tramp carring his swag, which means bundle wrapped up in a blanket; billabong = a water-hole in the dried-up bed of a river; jumbuck = a sheep, squatter = a sheep-farmer on a large scale


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original WALTZING MATILDA
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Oct 10 - 10:56 PM

G'day Mike,

It may well have been pastiches of half-truth like this that led to Christina McPherson writing a letter to a folkloric medico in 1938 detailing her memory of the actual events. There is a bundle of (presumably) 'first drafts' in her papers (held by the National Library of Australia) which fits in fairly well with the conclusions published by Richard Magoffin in the 1980s and 1990s ... but stops short of further discussion of Paterson's possibles advances to her ... and the ending of "Banjo's" engagement to her ex-classmate that have been detailed by Magoffin's sometime co-author Denis O'Keefe.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original Waltzing Matilda
From: Andrez
Date: 26 May 11 - 08:57 PM

And of course the post above is completely irrelevant to the thread discussion!

Cheers,

Andrez


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original Waltzing Matilda
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 11:48 PM

G'day Andrez,

Well ... no! The recent (post 2000) release of Christina McPherson's personal papers provides first-hand evidence of Christina's involvement in the setting of Paterson's words to the fragment of Bulch's arrangement of the musical setting of Thou Bonnie Wood of Graigielea that Christina remembered from its debut, back home in Warnambool.

This is quite relevant to the continuing arguments against the facts uncovered by Richard Magoffin and, subsequently detailed by Denis O'Keefe. The truth of the circunstances of composition was the original aim of Jim Dix ... back in 2000 - probably before the Christina McPherson papers were made public.

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original Waltzing Matilda
From: Fergie
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 11:59 AM

Hi all

I transcribed the piece below from The Moretom Bay Courier of Sat. 28th July 1855.

Image HERE

The phonetric rendering of the Aboriginal phrse may hold a clue to the Aboriginal language that may be the source of the word jimbuck/jumbuck/jumpbuck

ABORIGINAL POESY. COMMUNICATED TO THE "GEELONG ADVERTISER."

Many people who suppose that the music of the Corobra is appended to, senseless rhapsodies, will be startled to hear that many of the songs, are satire, full of pith, directed by the swarthy improvisatore at the passing events of the day; and others are pure incantations, and war songs full of fearful meaning. The well-known madrigal which begins with; "Boudjerie jumbuck patta gra pat ter gra,'' 'May be literally translated-

"Pretty little lampkin, nibble up the grass, nibble up the grass,
And unconscious remain of the fast approaching pain,
When to cruel butcher's knife thou deliver'st up thy life,
And leave thy little playmates careering on the plain."
Tho' thou hast done no ill,
The white man will thee kill;
He has seized the Kootites' lands,
And thy blood will stain his hands,
And thy lubra young and coy!
He'll yard her and he'll guard her,
And from the wild dog ward her;
Yet he guards but to destroy."

One of their poetical shafts is directed at the Church, and is piquant and pointed-
"Big, big master's gunya is gloomy and bare!
No damper, nor tea, nor mutton is there;
But old man book, where yabberan cry;
Big master send plenty of tea bye and bye,
For him we might fast till corobra day,
As on earth 'tis his rule to give nothing away."

The following is somewhat Ossianic:-
"The sun slept in his trees, pure as the waters of Murrumbridgee;
But he is jump up on the morrow covered with blood.,
It was the red blood of the Roronga,
And the Great Spirit grumbled wild
Because it was not avenged,
And sent storms and big rain to wash it away!"

The following, with which we conclude for the present, is sarcastic enough:-
'The whiteman, like a bullock, toils for food,
(ln chase the black man finds food and sport together),
Takes rum that makes him mad to do him good;
(The stream supplies the black - he needs no other).
To crown his folly builds a dungeon cold,
And is himself the first its walls enfold;
For days, or weeks or years he withers there,
While the poor black roams free as mountain air."

gunya = house.
old man book = An old book only
yabberan = clergyman.
corobra day = Last day.

Fergus


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original Waltzing Matilda
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 01:23 PM

'yabberan'. Excellent!

More of those lyrics in Australian papers?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original Waltzing Matilda
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 11 Jul 11 - 08:05 PM

G'day Fergus,

Since the (tranlated) lyrics speak of the Murrumbidgee, the Aboriginal language source ought to be a northerly dialect of the Wiradhuri ... a people of "southern New South Wales and northern Victoria" (basically our "Riverina" region, both sides of the Murray River).

Although the Wiradhuri language is considered "now extinct" by the compilers of my Oxford Concise Australian Dictionary, there are a number of those who identify with their Wiradhuri heritage ... and John Warner had consultation with them at the time he created his song cycle Yarri of the Waradhuri, dealing with the devastating floods that inundated the early township of Gundagai in the 1840s?. This tells of the courageous efforts of several of the Wiradhuri ... typified by Yarri ... in selflessly rescuing the whites who had foolishly ignored their warnings of the danger of settling and building too close to the volatile river system!

I don't know, offhand, if there is any accessible systematic collection of Wiradhuri language and vocabulary from the mid 1800s.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: The original Waltzing Matilda
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Jul 11 - 01:01 AM

G'dat again,

I searched around the Australian National Dictionary (full Oxford English Dictionary on historical principles treatment of Australian words and terms ... now available on-line at http://203.166.81.53/and/index.php)and there is some suggestion that Jumbuck, if not merely a corruption of (~) "jump-up", could be an Aboriginal word from the Kamilaroi language.

Kamilaroi land was further north than Wiradhuri (north of Sydney, not south-west) but the nature of traditional seasonal use of natural resources meant that the different language groups would often cross paths in accessing a shared food source and, I believe this maintained a fairly smooth gradient between adjoining vocabularies.

Unfortunately, the text as reported to Mudcat by Fergie doesn't exactly present a scholarly translation ... let alone analysis. However, it is wonderful that, with the internet, we can now access full images of 19th century regional newspapers, like the 28th July 1855 The Moreton Bay Courier (Queensland)... or even the (earlier) Geelong Advertiser (Victoria) source - along with OCR scans, linked directly to the printed text.

Regards,

Bob


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