Origins: Pat O'Brien

Subject: Lyr Add: PAT O'BRIEN^^
From: NSC
Date: 08 Dec 00 - 01:45 PM

There is a version of this song in the DT but it is incomplete. I got it from the late Rory O'Connor from Doolin Co. Clare. Tim Lyons sings a version of this song but misses the important penultimate verse where Nancy "Dashes blood in his face"


PAT O'BRIEN

Come all ye lads and lassies and listen to my song,
'Twill only be a few short lines and I won't detain you long.
Concerning two fond lovers all in their youth and bloom,
And one of them was murdered and the other was hung in June.

'Twas in the town of Sligo that this fair maid did dwell,
She was an only daughter and her parents loved her well,
They brought her up in fear of God, and reared her tenderly,
But little they thought they'd raised her to be murdered barbarously.

And Pat O'Brien, her true love's name, was a carpenter by trade,
Both day and night he took delight in courting this fair maid.
'Til a letter from America from another she received,
Which put Pat O'Brien in iron tongs and sent her to his grave.

She wrote O'Brien a letter and an answer to it came,
Saying "Nancy, lovely Nancy and I hope you won't me blame,
For I've been working this long day and I cannot see you love,
But I mean to be in your company this evening in the grove."

Well when she read this letter it enticed her for to go,
She dressed herself in private I mean to let you know,
This girl was young and innocent and straight away did go,
But little she thought that very night he'd prove her overthrow.

It was when he saw her coming it was then he went to hide,
He said these words all to himself, "You never will be my bride,
For I have heard for a positive fact that you have deceived me,
So this very night I'll take your life and your butcher I will be."

T'was then he stepp-ed up to her it was in his colourless face,
She said, "Pat O'Brien what's wrong with you and why are you so pale,"
"I want no talk at all from you just kneel down there and pray,
There's not s girl that's living that will ever deceive me."

He grabbed her by the yellow locks and he dragged her to the ground,
'Twas with a knife he stabb-ed her and gave her dreadful wounds,
'Twas with a spade he dug her grave and then dashed out her brains,
Her dying words were, "Pat O'Brien, you do not know my pains."

She was only a few days buried, I mean to let you know,
When the ghost of this fair maiden unto her mother did go,
Saying, "Mother dearest mother on earth we'll meet no more,
Since pat O'Brien has murdered me and turned me to my gore."

"Oh go to John Keatons house and that without delay,
'Tis there you'll find my body Dan it covered with the clay,
You'll see my blood spilt on the grass where he has murdered me,
Oh go and get him taken and its hang-ed he'll surely be."

Her mother went in reach of her and there her body found.
Thousands came from round the town to see those dreadful wounds,
Each man stoop-ed over her that lived around the place,
But when Pat O'Brien bent over her SHE DASHED BLOOD IN HIS FACE.

O'Brien was quickly taken and straight away lodged in jail,
Bound down with heavy irons his sins for to prepare,
"Well I tell you judge and jury and them that's standing by,
'Twas I that killed poor Nancy Ryan, and I'm willing for to die."

Apart from Tim and myself, and of course my source, I have never heard anyone else sing this song. Does anyone have a version of this song. I would like to try and trace its origins if possible. ^^

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Dec 00 - 12:03 PM

There is an entry at  The Traditional Ballad Index,  which is of limited use as it contains only two references; one to Laws, one to the DT file:  Pat O'Brien [Laws P39]

Tom Lenihan, the traditional singer from Clare, has a version of Pat O'Brien, and has recorded it twice: on Songs Traditional in West Clare (Topic Records 12TS363) and on The Mount Callan Garland (Comhairle Bhéaloideas Éireann, CBE003, 1994).  The latter is a book accompanied by two cassette tapes, and appears still to be available.

Malcolm

---

Pat O'Brien [Laws P39]

DESCRIPTION: Pat asks Nancy to meet him. Having decided not to marry her, he stabs her. Her ghost tells her mother of the crime. Her body is found and Pat arrested. The ghost keeps appearing to him, finally inducing him to confess. He is hanged
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1909 (Greig/Duncan2)
KEYWORDS: homicide ghost execution gallows-confession
FOUND IN: US(NE) Ireland Britain(Scotland(Aber)) Canada(Newf)
REFERENCES (6 citations):
Laws P39, "Pat O'Brien"
Greig/Duncan2 203, "Pat O'Brien" (1 text)
Munnelly/Deasy-TheMountCallanGarland-Tom-Lenihan 10, "Pat O'Brien" (1 text, 1 tune)
Flanders/Ballard/Brown/Barry-NewGreenMountainSongster, pp. 131-135, "Pat O'Brien" (1 text, 1 tune)
Guigné-ForgottenSongsOfTheNewfoundlandOutports, pp. 300-302, "Pats O'Brien" (1 text, 1 tune)
DT 516, PATOBRI
Roud #1919
RECORDINGS:
John Kehoe, "Pat O'Brien" (on MUNFLA/Leach)
Mrs. K. McCarthy, "Pat O'Brien" (on MUNFLA/Leach)
Charlie Williams, "Patrick Power (Parker)" (on MUNFLA/Leach)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "The Cruel Ship's Carpenter (The Gosport Tragedy; Pretty Polly) [Laws P36A/B]" (theme)
NOTES [81 words]: "The Cruel Ship's Carpenter" is just the first similar ballad that came to mind. As Munnelly notes, "it is a classic of the type of murder ballads which eminated from the popular broadsheet presses of the 19th century." Munnelly also remarks on the "popularity of this song in oral tradition." I don't have a broadside example yet.
The Charlie Williams MUNFLA/Leach recording at first names the ship's carpenter "Patrick Power (Parker?)" but later names the murderer "Pat O'Brien." - BS
Last updated in version 4.2
File: LP39

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 01:19 AM

The version in the Digital Tradition is from from Flanders, Ballard, Brown, and Barry, New Green Mountain Songster. Is there anybody who has the book who can check to see if there is any background information?
Anybody got a copy of the Songster they want to sell me for cheap?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 08:23 AM

I have the Mount Callan Garland set - I'll check it when I get a chance. Its quite likely Tim got it from Tom, of couirse.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 11:45 AM

The entry in G. Malcolm Laws' British Broadside Ballads Traditional in America says "Pat O'Brien" has been found in Maine and was printed in the Bulletin of the Folk-Song Society of the Northeast as well as in The New Green Mountain Songster. There is a further mention of additional stanzas from Vermont printed in the Union newspaper of Springfield, Massachusetts (Dec 4, 1932) by Helen Hartness Flanders. There are no Irish or British references.

I would think almost certainly that this ballad was written in Ireland and is about a real murder.

All the best
Dan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: GUEST,Tom Munnelly
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 02:53 PM

I remember some years ago trying to find a source for this ballad using such Longford/Sligo (where the song is usually located) experts as Bairbre Ní Fhloinn, who in her turn contacted local historians and librarians. Unfortunately nothing turned up.

If you check 'The Mount Callan Garland' (p 36) you will see that I cover the motif of the corpse which bleeds again when approached by its killer (Motif no.D1318.5.2.)

'Pat O' Brien' and its near relative 'The Old Oak Tree' are sung traditionally throughout Ireland. The lack of references to Irish versions of ballads in Laws and Bronson reflects the lack of study of the field of Irish song by British and American scholars rather than the lack of material.

See you in Miltown, Martin.

Tom

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 10:10 PM

The song was also in the repertoire of NY State lumberman Ezra "Fuzzy" Barhight, who was recorded by folklorist Ellen Stekert in the 1950's. He was 80 years of age when he first sang it for her, and learned most of his songs in the northern PA/southern NY lumbercamps, where, as he said "a good many of the men were Irish".

I'm learning his version now, and will post the lyrics once I have them all, but at first glance, they are VERY similar to NSC's Co. Clare version above.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 01 Nov 05 - 11:24 PM

Since this thread has re-appeared, I'll add a little more to it as I have access to more references these days.

The song is listed in the Roud Folk Song Index at number 1919; two examples from Ireland (including the one published by Tom Munnelly), one from London (presumably learned in Ireland), two from Canada, three from America (New England) and one from Scotland. Of course this reflects only "collected" examples; if the song is still widely current in Ireland, then specialists in that field would be doing us all a favour if they were to tell us more about it.

For myself I doubt any real connection to The Old Oak Tree (there is more in common with The Bloody Miller), but Tom Munnelly is far more experienced than I am.

A Newfoundland example can be seen online, with a short sound sample, at

MacEdward Leach & the Songs of Atlantic Canada: Pat O'Brien

There is some additional commentary in The New Green Mountain Songster, but two-thirds of it is speculation or not directly relevant. Printed examples don't much differ, which does suggest a broadside source; though none seems so far to have been identified.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 02 Nov 05 - 02:25 PM

Thanks for the additional information, Malcolm. I just listened to the Atlantic Canada version you referenced, and not surprisingly, the tune is much different from the NY/PA version I have, but again the text is much the same.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Pat O'Brien
From: GUEST,Hayden Arp
Date: 21 Oct 21 - 08:41 PM

The recording that I'm familiar with is sung by Jean Ritchie, while she is recording for Alan Lomax in NYC. But it's only a fragment.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE LAMENTATION OF PAT O'BRIEN
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Oct 21 - 07:56 PM

From Graham's Illustrated Magazine, Vol. 52, No. 6 (Philadelphia, June 1858), page 560:

[I have made many corrections to spelling, punctuation, capitalization, etc. Apparently, the magazine editor printed ad litteram a manuscript from a semiliterate person.--JD.]


THE LAMENTATION OF PAT O'BRIEN.

[1] Come all you tender Christians; I hope you will draw near.
A doleful lamentation I mean to let you hear,
Concerning two young lovers all in their youth and bloom,
How one of them was murdered and the other hung last June.

[2] This young man’s name was Pat O'Brien, a carpenter by trade.
Both day and night he took delight in courting this fair maid,
Until at length, he got the love of her; 'tis then he proved unkind.
'Tis bad advice and jealousy that's soon attained his mind.

[3] She wrote to him a letter and an answer to her came,
Saying, “Nancy, lovely Nancy, I hope you won’t me blame,
For I being working all the time, I could not see you, love,
But I hope [to have] your company this evening in the grove.”

[4] Those lines he said enticed her that evening for to go.
She dressed herself in private, I mean to let you know.
As she being young and innocent, straightway to him did go,
But little did she ever think he would prove her overthrow.

[5] It was when he seen her coming, 'tis then he went to hide.
He said those words unto himself: “You never shall be my bride,
For I am told for certain you have deceived me.
This very night, I will have revenge; your butcher I will be.”

[6] He quickly then walked up to her, and then his color changed,
Saying, “Patsy, lovely Patsy, what makes you look so pale?”
“I want no talk; kneel down and pray, for your grave there now I have;
There is no woman breathing shall ever me deceive.”

[7] She looked all around her, but no one could she see,
Saying, “Pat O'Brien, don't prove unkind, or do not murder me.
Although you got your will of me, I did let no one know.
How could you find or have the heart for to use me so?”

[8] He caught her by the yellow locks and drew her to the ground.
It was with a knife he stabbed her and gave her a deadly wound.
Her last dying words were: “Patsy, you do not feel those pains,”
So with the spade that made her grave, he then dashed out her brains.

[9] The ghost of this fair one to her mother did appear.
Her mother spoke to her without either dread or fear.
“O, Mother, lovely Mother, you will never see me more,
For Pat O'Brien has murdered me and laid me in my gore.

[10] “Go now unto John Keating's grove, and make no delay.
You will get my body buried and there covered up with clay.
You will see my blood upon the ground where he has murdered me.
Go now and have him taken and hanged he will surely be.”

[11] Her mother went in search of her, and soon her body found,
When numbers soon assembled to see the deadly wound.
All men were made stoop over her that were about the place.
When Pat O'Brien stooped over her, she dashed blood in his face.

[12] That moment he was sent to jail, the truth unto you I will tell,
Where he lay heavy bolted all in a dismal cell.
The thoughts of this murder, which grieved his heart full sore,
Each night he would see her ghost all in her bleeding gore.

[13] The day then of his trial as he stood in the dock,
Those words he said were feeling which made the people shock:
“I tell you, judge and jury, and all that do stand by,
I own I murdered Nancy Ryan; I am willing for to die.

[14] “Now to conclude and make an end, my age is 24.
I left my tender parents in sorrow, grief, and woe.
But youth that is at your liberty, a warning take by me
To shun all bad advisers and cursed jealousy.”

Subject: RE: Origins: Pat O'Brien
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Oct 21 - 02:13 AM

Thread #125547   Message #2782177
Posted By: Jim Carroll
06-Dec-09 - 01:01 PM
Thread Name: BS: 'Faux Irishman' Pat O'Brien
Subject: RE: BS: 'Faux Irishman' Pat O'Brien

"Did the Pat O'Brien this thread is named after actually exist?"
This feller maybe - probably not!
From Tom Lenihan of Miltown Malbay, Co. Clare
Jim Carroll

PAT O'BRIEN
1   This young man's name was Pat O'Brien, a carpenter by trade,
Both day and night he took delight in courting this fair maid.
She was young and innocent and always to the fore,
Oh, but little was her notion that he'd prove her overthrow.

2   She wrote to him a love letter and an answer to it came;
Saying: 'Nancy, lovely Nancy, oh, I hope you'll not me blame,
For I've been working all this time and could not see you o'er,
But I hope to have your company this evening at the grove,'

3   When she read those few lines they enticed her for to go,
She dressed herself in private, oh, I mean to let you know.
The night was bright with the moonlight which caused her for to go;
But little was her notion that she never would come back home.

4   When he saw her coming, it was then he went to hide.
The words he said unto himself: 'You'll never be my bride
For I have heard for certain that you have me deceived
And this very night, to take your life, a butcher I will be.'

5   It was then he stepped up to her and then his colour changed.
She said: 'Patsy, lovely Patsy, oh what makes you look so pale?'
I want no talk at all from you, but kneel down there and pray,
For there is not a woman breathing will never deceive me.'

6   He caught her by the yellow locks and drew her to the ground.
'Twas with a knife he stabbed her, oh, and gave her the deadly wound.
Her last dying words was: 'Pat O'Brien, you do not feel the pain!'
And 'twas with a spade he made her grave and then went home by train.

7   This girl was but three days buried, to her mother she did appear.
The mother spoke to her, oh, without a dread or fear.
She says: 'Mother, loving mother, you'll never see me more
For Pat O'Brien has murdered me and laid me in my gore.

8   'Go down to that old, old grove, be sure make no delay,
There you'll find my body buried, oh, and covered with the clay.
You'll find the blood spilled on the spot—the place he murdered
me— So go and get him taken and hung he'll be surely.'

9   The night before his trial came on to him she did appear
With her baby in her arms, oh, which filled his heart with fear.
She says: "Tis often times you vowed to me that I would be your
bride. On the gallows high you now will die for taking away my life.'



Laws P 39. IFC TM 81/A/l. August 19th 1972. On some occasions Tom said he had learned it from his father, other times he recalled having learned it from his mother. At any rate he was always certain that the song was in the family for a very long time. 5.4   lapsus linguae, for 'never' read 'ever'.
In spite of the popularity of this song in oral tradition it has seldom appeared in anthologies. It is a classic of the type of murder ballads which emanated from the popular broadsheet presses of the 19th century. Although the geographical location of the action varies considerably it is frequently referred to as 'The Sligo Murder Ballad'. Tom's text is more genteel than most in that the line (6.4) which ends with 'and then went home by train.' is usually rendered '. . . and then dashed out her brains..'