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BS: More etymology

Margo 10 Dec 00 - 12:18 PM
paddymac 10 Dec 00 - 12:41 PM
Uncle_DaveO 10 Dec 00 - 03:33 PM
katlaughing 10 Dec 00 - 03:50 PM
little john cameron 10 Dec 00 - 04:17 PM
little john cameron 10 Dec 00 - 04:28 PM
Naemanson 10 Dec 00 - 04:58 PM
MMario 10 Dec 00 - 08:56 PM
katlaughing 10 Dec 00 - 09:40 PM
dick greenhaus 10 Dec 00 - 11:06 PM
okthen 11 Dec 00 - 04:19 AM
Steve Parkes 11 Dec 00 - 07:43 AM
Ringer 11 Dec 00 - 07:54 AM
Luke 11 Dec 00 - 08:19 AM
Mrrzy 11 Dec 00 - 09:56 AM
Mrrzy 11 Dec 00 - 10:00 AM

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Subject: More etymology
From: Margo
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 12:18 PM

Heh heh, notice I spelled it right this time!

I noticed in another thread the expression "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" made reference to, but to illustrate vengance: You pluck out an eye, and get your own plucked out.

BUT, I heard that the real meaning of that expression is quite different. As I understand it, it comes from Jewish law, and illustrates the "let the punishment fit the crime" idea. If someone steals a loaf of bread, it would be excessive punishment to put him to death. That wouldn't be an eye for an eye, it wouldn't be equal.

Any others you know of? Margo


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: paddymac
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 12:41 PM

Ah,Margo, proof of the great educational value of the Mudcat. I'll follow this thread fro the same reason - to learn something. Thanks for starting it.


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 03:33 PM

Margo:

Congratulations on "etymology"!

Now try "vengeance"! :-D

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 03:50 PM

Do ya suppose someone ever really did bite off their nose to spite their face? Wonder where that one came from.


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: little john cameron
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 04:17 PM

EYE FOR AN EYE---An equal exchange; the punishment should match the crime.---"I believe in an eye for an eye."---Bible: Exodus 21:23-25 "And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand,foot for foot..........." ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: little john cameron
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 04:28 PM

CUT OFF YOUR NOSE TO SPITE YOUR FACE---Self defeating gesture.---"He is just cutting off his nose to spite his face."---R. L. Stevenson (1889) Balantrae "He was in that humor when a man, in the words of the old adage, will cut off his nose to spite his face." ljc


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: Naemanson
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 04:58 PM

For those who remember Robert Heinlein a lot of his future worlds were based on a form of anarchy and an "eye for and eye" kind of justice. I remember one story where the vigilantes were punishing a person guilty of careless diving. He had hit someone with his car and broken his leg. They were arranging the driver in the road so they could drive a car over his leg.

That's and eye for an eye, or more accurately a leg for a leg.


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: MMario
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 08:56 PM

and in that particular instance, medical attention would be delayed exactly as long as it took for it to arrive for the original victim.


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 09:40 PM

IMO, that is mucking about with karma; oh what a tangled web....


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Dec 00 - 11:06 PM

And there's the comment on viewing a Jewish actress's rhinoplasty:

"Cutting off her nose to spite her race"

(To which she replied: "Now I'm a thing of beauty and a goy forever")


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: okthen
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 04:19 AM

"An eye for an eye,untill the whole world is blind"

gandhi

cheers

bill


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 07:43 AM

I'm not sure if "Cutting off your nose ..." [note cutting] is descended from "paying through the nose". This latter comes from the Danish habit of cutting off the noses of Ancient Britons (no Age Concern in those days!) who couldn't/wouldn't pay the Danegeld. Nowadays we have agents, of course.

Of course, a pedant would say that this isn't actually etymology. I woul;dn't say that, 'cos I can't remember what it should be called.

Steve


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: Ringer
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 07:54 AM

LOL, dick_greenhaus.


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: Luke
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 08:19 AM

I'm laughing at Mr. Greenhaus. Am I still pc?

Timing is everything Mr. dry and sly.

Luke


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 09:56 AM

I'm not so sure that Eye for Eye isn't ALSO about vengeance (do I get a prize for spelling?) - AS WELL AS about the punishment suiting the crime. The idea is that revenge may be His but we get to do it too - as long as it's "suitable" in severity.


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Subject: RE: BS: More etymology
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 10:00 AM

Something else just occurred to me. This may be thread creep - maybe not...

I was at a conference on legal systems in the Third World, where some Africans were discussing the changes in their legal system brought about by colonization. Apparently the ancient systems were based upon REPARATION - you commit a crime, it is your duty to redress the wrong you caused. Thus if you steal something and sell it for the money, you have to sell something of your own to buy it back to give back to your victim. If you kill someone, you owe that family LOTS, might even have to marry the widow, and so on. But the concept of PUNISHMENT (qua punishment, not as a reparation scheme - some might consider it punishment to have to make reparation) was alien to them, and the colonists could not understand that, so they invented jails, and sentences, and so on, which make no sense to the locals because if you are in jail, how are you going to make the money to give back to your victims what you took from them? Anyway, it was very interesting, and I wonder what you all think about it. Curiosity is all.


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