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Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)

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*#1 PEASANT* 11 Dec 00 - 07:12 AM
Wolfgang 11 Dec 00 - 07:38 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 11 Dec 00 - 08:28 AM
GUEST,Sarah 11 Dec 00 - 12:23 PM
GeorgeH 12 Dec 00 - 06:34 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 12 Dec 00 - 08:03 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 12 Dec 00 - 08:06 AM
Liz the Squeak 12 Dec 00 - 08:08 AM
Snuffy 12 Dec 00 - 08:53 AM
AndyG 12 Dec 00 - 09:58 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 12 Dec 00 - 10:03 AM
A Wandering Minstrel 13 Dec 00 - 09:26 AM
AndyG 13 Dec 00 - 09:36 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 13 Dec 00 - 12:42 PM
Micca 13 Dec 00 - 02:38 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 13 Dec 00 - 07:32 PM
dick greenhaus 13 Dec 00 - 10:19 PM
A Wandering Minstrel 14 Dec 00 - 12:24 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 14 Dec 00 - 03:53 PM
Liz the Squeak 14 Dec 00 - 07:38 PM
GeorgeH 15 Dec 00 - 09:29 AM
Tattie Bogle 17 Dec 00 - 07:41 PM
*#1 PEASANT* 17 Dec 00 - 08:20 PM
lamarca 18 Dec 00 - 11:12 AM
Malcolm Douglas 18 Dec 00 - 12:36 PM
Tattie Bogle 21 Dec 00 - 07:57 PM
Dave the Gnome 22 Dec 00 - 04:47 AM
GeorgeH 22 Dec 00 - 09:26 AM
*#1 PEASANT* 22 Dec 00 - 10:14 AM
dick greenhaus 22 Dec 00 - 11:32 PM
Barbara 11 Feb 11 - 07:17 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Sid Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 07:12 AM

Death or Glory Wassail

Wassail Wassail, we know you're about
Though you sit in the dark and pretend that you're out
If you're thinking of calling the police to give chase
Just who do you think is singing the bass

Chorus
Wassail Wassail, all over the town
We are all Wassailers of fame and renown
Open your doors and fill up our cup
Or we'll sing through your letter box until you cough up

Wassail Wassail, all over your garden
If we've done any damage then we beg your pardon
We're sorry to call upon you so late
But we had to pick the lock on your gate

Wassail Wassail, that you may believe
Tis more blessed to give than it is to receive
The more that you give the more blessed are you
The more we receive the less damage we'll do

Wassail Wassail, with a crisp ten pound note
We can all drink your health down at the Old Goat
If you haven't a tenner two fivers will do
If not things don't look very healthy for you

Wassail Wassail, all over for now
Now you've seen sense we will make no more row
Peace be upon you all at your repose
And we'll come no more nigh you until the pubs close

-Sid Kipper Source: Ron Shuttleworth


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 07:38 AM

what a fine addition to all the usual wassail songs.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 08:28 AM

TheKipper family and Sid have really done their part to extend the tradition. For more go to: The wassail epicenter Clickit r i g h t here

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 11 Dec 00 - 12:23 PM

#1Peasant,

Another good one -- can you give us the Do-Re-Mi score on this, too?

Sarah


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: GeorgeH
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 06:34 AM

From the words I'd guess the tune is that of the Gower Wassail (no help if you're not familiar with that, of course - it's the one Steeleye sang).

Also PLEASE NOTE that the words should be marked (C) Chris Sugden (hope I've got that right!!).

What's the significance of "Source: Ron Shuttleworth" then, Conrad? Why is your source info always so minimalist?

G.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 08:03 AM

Ron Shuttleworth sent the lyrics to me. Chris Sugden was not referenced Is this perhaps the real name of Kipper? sometimes you just have folk transference... I generally provide all that I have. Songs come to me in different ways. I am more concerned with the songs than their background. If I have it I include it if not then I toss it out here for more. That is the value of this forum. If you do not have all the information then it comes eventually.

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 08:06 AM

I did not get the tune. Conrad


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 08:08 AM

Chris Sugden is indeed the alter ego of a Kipper, although which one escapes me right now.... I suspect it is Sid.

LTS, who has upstaged the Kippers more than once, just by turning up!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 08:53 AM

Ron Shuttleworth is the keeper of the Mummers Play archives for The Morris Ring (or is it EFDSS?), and has a vast collection of this sort of material, both traditional and modern.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: AndyG
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 09:58 AM

A wee word of warning.

The Kipper Family songs use tunes which are "parodies" of the obvious tunes. It will commonly be a struggle to fit the words to this known tune. The words will however fit the "Kipper Family" variant of the tune so you do need to hear their version to get the song to scan properly.

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 10:03 AM

Yes! The Very same Ron Shuttleworth! He heard it and transcribed it! a folk transmission!

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 09:26 AM

Chris Sugden is Syd Kipper, Henry Kipper is the inimitable Dick Nudds. Trunch is thought to be a real place in Norfolk UK

AndyG is right in that they do use a lot a variant tunes. "Spencer, the wild rover" being a case in point

Long may they wassail.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: AndyG
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 09:36 AM

Trunch is a real place (in Norfolk UK).

As a long-time devotee of the Kipper Family I would say I've never heard a tune of theirs that wasn't a variant. Indeed that's very much a part of their appeal as far as I'm concerned.

Henry Kipper (Dick Nudds) of course is no longer performing.

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 12:42 PM

any place still selling kipper recordings? any re-issues? CB


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Micca
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 02:38 PM

I hate to state the obvious but You could TRY CAMSCO???


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 07:32 PM

just checked....not there... CB


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 10:19 PM

Hey CB (and others)--

CAMSCO will sell you anything that's a)remotely folk and b) in print. THe online catalog is woefully behind date (I've been working on other things, such as the new DigiTrad and filling orders, but if there's something you're looking for, just E-mail me and I'll let you know what it costs.
Come to think of it, the catalog will NEVER be complete.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: A Wandering Minstrel
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 12:24 PM

I'm not sure if you are in the UK or the US but HMV and Tower both stock Kippers on CD.

* let me just think that through one more time.....? *


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 03:53 PM

Just checked with tower web site searched it no kippers!

CB


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 07:38 PM

Try Dragon Records, at most major festivals in UK....

LTS


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: GeorgeH
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 09:29 AM

Henry Kipper (Dick Nudds) of course is no longer performing.

The fact that he's dead may, of course, have something to do with that!!

He died in the first half of this year. His "son" has produced a couple of "Kipper-style" obits, which I'm sure Dick would have loved and seemed a particularly fitting tribute. (As I recall I saw one in a Sidmouth Newsletter and a second in the Trunch Trumpet - Sid's irregular newsletter.

And of course Trunch is a real place . . Only that's not the Kippers' home; they're from "St Just near Trunch" which is more of a navigational problem . . It's vicar is Rev "Call me Derek" Bream . .

The Kipper recordings are on the detested Celtic Music (rats of Harrogate) label and there's a good few of them available . . Plus various books, of which Since Time Immoral (The Kipper Family Songbook) is out of print although Sid still had a few copies last time we saw him . . . interrestingly, that one was published by the EFDSS.

I posted another KipperSong to the Christmas Parodies thread; "Arrest these Merry Gentlemen".

And sorry, Conrad, but I at least believe you owe it to those whose material you post to take a little more trouble over attributions!

G.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 07:41 PM

Thanks for the Death or Glory Wassail: I have since sung it a couple of times, but it does need some rehearsal to get the words to fit the tune, often need to take the first word of the next line at the end of the preceding one if you get my drift! Having been brought up in East Anglia myself, I have long been a fan of the Kippers: the obituary to Henry Kipper in the Sidmouth Festival News this year was hilarious, especially the bit about all the widows who turned up to sing "Another One Bites the Dust" at the funeral. As for the tune, I've got it in The Faber book of Carols and Christmas Songs - ISBN 0-571-13189-1 - "selected and arranged by Eric Roseberry 1969" and he apparently got it from the Oxford Book of Carols. The melody was collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams, and the original words are "traditional" (Wassail, wassail all over the town) Hope this helps! Tattie B


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 17 Dec 00 - 08:20 PM

I only post what I have. Always glad to have additions! Still no sign of any Kipper recordings in any shops here. And I dont have dicks new e.mail address....

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: lamarca
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 11:12 AM

Being a long-time Kipper fan from the other side of the pond, I am saddened to hear of the death of Dick Nudds/Henry Kipper. Could any of you post the obituaries?

It seems a lot of the Kipper tune "variants" are due to them deliberately singing the harmony lines of the original tunes of which the songs are parodies...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 18 Dec 00 - 12:36 PM

Here is Henry's obit. from English Dance and Song, Autumn 2000:

The End of an Error

Henry Kipper, 1914-2000

Henry, alleged father of folk mega-star Sid Kipper and erstwhile member of the Kipper Family, departed this earth on July 29th.  After a long and painful existence, not least for his family, he passed away peacefully in mid anecdote.  So in a very real sense he went quietly in everyone else's sleep.  Now we shall never know just what it was he said to Cedric Cockle about his artichokes at the Trunch Pig and Produce Show in 1947.  Henry Kipper, younger son of William and Sarah, was born on the day World War I broke out.  His father noted in his diary at the time "This is the end of civilisation as we know it."  Strangely, though, he made no mention of the War.
Henry grew up in the little Norfolk village of St. Just-near-Trunch, where in 1936 he married Dot Spratt to the great relief of all, as it meant nobody else would have to marry either of them.  During World War II he held the reserved occupation of Scrap Dealer, and from then on did whatever work came his way that he couldn't avoid.
In the 1980s, however, along with his talented son Sid, he was discovered by the folk scene, and for a few years they had a sensational career touring the country, recording albums and appearing on TV and radio.

Then, in 1991, the family held a surprise retirement party for Henry, leaving Sid to conquer new worlds as a solo performer, story teller, radio presenter and singer.  His father would surely have been proud of him.  Well - jealous, at least.
For the past few years Henry's whereabouts have been a complete mystery.  He ran away from the Old Folkies Home to which he had been retired, and the family lost touch with him.  Then, just two weeks before his death, he turned up out of the blue at the family cottage, and despite the change of locks managed to gain entrance.  There they found him, sitting in his old chair by the fire as if nothing had happened.  Where he had been is still a mystery, but there may be a clue in the fact that a number of widows from all over England attended his funeral.
The service was conducted by the vicar of St Just, Rev 'Call-Me-Derek' Bream.  It was a colourful affair, even before the widows came to blows with each other.  Derek performed a rather modern form of service, which included the coffin being placed in the cloakroom according to the laws of feng shui, and the congregation standing and clapping their hands over their heads as they movingly sang 'Another One Bites The Dust'.

Tributes to Henry have been flooding in - not least from the various widows who attended his funeral.  A spokesperson for the Erpingham Folk Song and Dance Society said "As a singer his refusal to be tied down to the welltempered scale was challenging."  Cromer's 'Folk on the Pier' opined "We will never see his like again , but rest assured that if we do we'll run them out of town".

Henry leaves a widow, Dot, a brother, George, and a son, Sid.  A spokesman for the latter said "Sid Kipper is alive and well, and laughing his head off!"

The piece was accompanied by a photograph of Henry drinking from a (presumably) pewter tankard.  The caption read: "A rare photo taken just before his demise, showing quite clearly Henry Kipper's third hand.  This is probably the reason for his popularity with the widows."


Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 21 Dec 00 - 07:57 PM

The same appeared in "Sidmouth Festival News" - obviously a direct quote. Tattie B


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 04:47 AM

Lovely stuff. I had the pleasure of seeing Henry and Sid some years ago. As well as the usual singing they called a dance at the ceilidh - The dashing white privates. It was hilarious with things like a 'do-she-do' and a 'do-she-don't..' Sid is still as funny as ever of course but old Henry is sadly missed.

Serious point about the accreditations. I don't think any songs should be posted unless we know they if they are under copyright or not and if they are copyrighted make damn sure the owner approves and is accredited.

It's no good saying "I only post what I have", Conrad, while Max is being sued for breach of copyright!

Seasons greetings anyway

Dave the Gnome


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE POACHER'S CHRISTMAS (Nudds, Sugden)
From: GeorgeH
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 09:26 AM

Thanks, Dave, that was my concern . .

Let me also add . . "Sid Kipper" continues to make his living by his writing and performing. It isn't ever going to make him a rich man; he deserves all the credits and all the royalties he can get, and by failing to acknowledge his copyright we increase (however slightly) the chance of his failing to do so.

So I hope some of you who've appreciated the Kipper parodies will also search out the original material (for all that I detest his chosen record company).

And to whet your apetite a little further (he says, climbing off his high horse . . ) here's another "Sid and Henry Special"

The Poacher's Christmas
(c) Dick Nudds and Chris Sugden

On the first day of Christmas my dog and I brought back
A partridge in an old sack.

Two moor hens

Three lame ducks

Four bald coots

Five poached eggs

Six bootiful turkeys

Seven pleasant pheasants

Eight stoned crows

Nine breeding rabits - all with dirty habits

Ten hares receding

Eleven salmon smoking

Twelve stags a-rutting

On the thirteenth day of Christmas my dog and I got caught with:
Twelve stags a-rutting
etc.

Spoken: We got taken to court and tried
and spent the next fourteen days inside.


Happy Christmas one and all! I'll be disappearing for the next few days.

G.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 10:14 AM

At times you can only post what you have. You will note at the top that I clearly posted the known author of the song. And its source to me. In writing, research and discussion that generally is sufficient for example when you write a paper you do not mention copyright only date of publishing author and publisher. Another thought about traditional material. Until you find that something is recorded or published you should be safe enough to assume that it is still traditional. I have only recently received the publication information. Perhaps next time I will include....."as sung by"...

Conrad


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 22 Dec 00 - 11:32 PM

Conrad (ands anyone else who might be innarested)

My URL at CAMSCO is dick@camsco.com

My phone number (US AND Canada) is 800/548-FOLK (or 3655)

I can supply anything folk that's in print at a competitive price.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Death or Glory Wassail (Kipper)
From: Barbara
Date: 11 Feb 11 - 07:17 AM

refresh


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