Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 18 Jan 21 - 11:36 AM

I'm always pleased to collaborate.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 04:31 PM

I was all set to do an article on it but then found out that Stephen Reynolds was all set to publish so I dropped it. I don't think he ever did publish and this must have been more than 5 years ago. I'll have a look at my notes and get back to you. I might complete the article anyway and put it on Mustrad when I've got time. You might have more info on the evolution on your side before it got into Liverpool.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 12:40 PM

These transformations occurred in several known cases:Fanny Blair and.The Irish Privateer/Spanish.Snow. I.didn't realise that the Strands of Magilligan into The streams of lovely Nancy was so clear and would love the details - I have some but they don't show a clear progression.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 10:12 AM

Many thanks for clearing all that up, John.

IanC's earlier claim for the North West of England was always based on false ideas. The reason why many Irish songs were printed by northern printers is that they usually came in via Liverpool either in already printed form or in oral tradition. Many other examples as I'm sure you can attest.

You can actually follow the trail of evolution in England of 'The Strands of Magilligan' as it morphed into 'The Streams of Lovely Nancy' by the time it reached southern England.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 16 Jan 21 - 06:49 AM

There are quite a few of these songs that can be conveniently, if illogically, labelled as broken token songs without the token. Distinctive features of this one are the consistent location (apart from some variations of spelling and pronunciation) despite the song's travels to England, North America and Australia, and the reference to the "walls of Troy". Does the latter suggest some influence from the hedge poets, despite the absence of other features of their work?

Probably most of us met the Coppers' version first. FWIW, despite my love of the Coppers' songs, in this case I prefer Sally Sloane's tune. Does anyone in the Revival nowadays sing any other version that those two?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:52 PM

The romantic tradition of the Claddagh ring is also, kinda-sorta, a part of both the Irish air and the shanty.

Fwiw, Galway is closer to Greenwood than Londonderry.

That would make the title Banks of the Bank or something like that tho… :/

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 09:47 PM

“BANKS OF (THE) CLAUDY, THE (Bruach an Chladaigh). AKA and see "An Cailin Donn," "Plain of Boccarough," "The Portaferry Boys," “Roving Galway Boy.” Irish, Air (2/4 or 4/4 time). F Major Standard tuning. One part (O’Neill, Stanford/Petrie): AABBC (O’Sullivan/Bunting). Claudy is a village on the right bank of a small stream called the Faughan, which rises in the Sperrin mountains and flows into the River Foyle just before it enters Lough Foyle in County Londonderry. O'Sullivan (1983) notes that old collections record tune was a once popular Irish ballad, known throughout the island and beyond, for, according to A.L. Lloyd, the song has turned up "in Sussex and Scotland, Virginia, USA, and Victoria, Australia, practically word-for-word the same and we have to presume that these versions have probably come from, and been more or less fixed by, some printed original on a broadside or in a popular songster." O’Neill (1913) classifies the melody in a group with “Willy Reilly” et al (see note for “Willy Reilly [2]"). O’Neill relates hearing a memorable rendition by a Chicago piper named John K. Beatty, a native of County Meath who was a genial man and a good musician, though with an inflated opinion of his own abilities (“execution he had—too much of it—but neither time nor rhythm”):
***

An American lady, of wealth and social distinction, proud of her Irish ancestry, once appealed to us for aid in getting out a suitable programme. The best Irish talent obtainable was engaged. But how about Mr. Beatty? It was contended that he could play The Banks of the Claudy with trills and variations in acceptable style, yet no one could guarantee that he would confine himself within limits. In any event he was the typical bard in appearance. His confident air and florid face, adorned with a heavy white mustache, and a head crowned with an abundance of long white hair, would naturally appeal to an Irish audience, so his name was placed on the programme, well towards the end, to minimize the effect of his possible disregard of instructions.] When his time came to execute The Banks of Claudy he met all expectations—and much more. Intoxicated by the applause, all was forgotten but the mad desire to get more of it, so he broke loose with rhapsodical jigs and reels, his head on high, nostrils distended like a race-horse on the home stretch, while both feet pounded the platform in unison. He evidently ‘had it in’ for the regulators, for he clouted the keys unmercifully, regardless of concord or effect, and when he quit, from sheer exhaustion, it is safe to say that no such deafening laughter and hand clapping ever greeted an Irish piper before or since. (Irish Folk Music, pg. 26)
***

For an American derivative version, see G.B. Grayson’s “Where are You Going, Alice.” Sources for notated versions: the Irish collector Edward Bunting noted the melody from the harper Charles Byrne, probably at the end of the 18th century [Bunting]. O'Neill (Music of Ireland: 1850 Melodies), 1979; No. 430, pg. 75. O'Sullivan/Bunting, 1983; No. 43, pgs. 67-68. Stanford/Petrie (Complete Collection), 1905; Nos. 422 & 423, pg. 107.

X:1
T:Banks of Claudy, The
M:C
L:1/8
R:Air
S:O’Neill – Music of Ireland (1903), No. 430
Z:AK/Fiddler’s Companion
N:”Slow with feeling”
K:D Minor
fe|d3 {e/d/}c d2 DE|~F2 FA|c2 ed|A2 GF/E/ D2D2|D6 FG|AB/A/ GA d2e2|
f3d e2 dc|A2 B/A/G A2^c2|d6 FG|AB/A/ GA d2e2|f3d f{g/f/}e d{e/d/}c|
A2G2 Ad ^ce|d6 fe|d3 {e/d/}c d2 DE|~F2 FA c2 dc|A2 GF/E/ D2D2|D6||
[https://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/BAN_BARM.htm]

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: RTim
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 07:40 PM

Earlier in this thread Malcolm Douglas mentions that Dr. George Gardiner collected the song from Frederick White in Southampton Workhouse (White was in the Infirmary with an ulcer of the leg - and he was an Australian born ex-seaman) and when first collected in June 1906 by Gardiner he sang it without a chorus.....and then later (date unknown), when it was recorded on a Cylinder - White sang a chorus -
"I-O, I-O, he is my darling boy, He is the darling of my heart upon the walls of Troy."

This is the Only time a chorus was recorded for this song!!!

IMO - Vaughan-Williams DID NOT record it (as has been suggested elsewhere) - he only transcribed the recording made by Gardiner....

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,John Moulden
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 06:02 PM

I have an Irish 8-page song book print of this dated 1816 and another very similar of 1819, also printed in Belfast - this move the terminus ante quem referred to above, back by 8 years and to an Irish Location:
The Banks of Claudy [inside - A new song called] the B of C], to which are added The answer to the Red Mantle and Paddy Whack, [Cut (faint) – 2 pilgrim like figures, church on hill in left background]
Belfast: Printed in the year 1816
Ulster Museum X 177-1980
Three other Irish song book prints are extant but they are almost certainly later

The earliest plausibly dated ballad sheet print from Ireland is from Cork and cannot be dated more closely than between 1834 and 1846.

However, the Census of Ireland Index of Townlands of 1861 shows eleven places in Ireland spelled Clady and two spelled Claudy, they refer to the Town and Townland on the Banks of the River Faughan not many miles from Derry which Philippa mentioned. Being inclined towards local partisanship, I live to the north of Derry, I'm absolutely, stone-cold definitely sure this is the one.

The ballad trades of Britain and Ireland were closely linked, many songs being exchanged, I'm not surprised the song was widespread in Britain, the people there were not that different from those in Ireland - or vice versa!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 15 Jan 21 - 04:13 PM

A kind of parallel “rolling/ruling/ruler king” discussion/speculation here: South Australia:What the hell's a 'Rolling King'?

"The Banks of Clody
Down by the banks of Clody I heard a maid complain,
Making sad lamentations for her false-hearted swain;
She says, “I'm deeply wounded, bound in the chain of love,
By a false-hearted young man who does inconstant prove.”
I straightway stepped up to her, and put her in surprise;
I own she did not know me, I being in disguise.
I said, “My dearest jewel, my joy, and heart's delight,
How far have you to travel this dark and rainy night?”

Said she, “'Tis too much freedom for to accost me so,
But as you have heard my secret, I'll also let you know–
I seek a faithless young man – young Johnny is his name–
And its on the banks of Clody I'm told he does remain.”
“But don't depend on Johnny, he is a false young man;
Do not depend on Johnny, he will not meet you here;
But come with me to Greenwood, no danger need you fear.”

If Johnny he was here to-night he'd keep me from all harm;
He's in the field of battle all in his uniform.
He's in the field of battle, and his foes he does defy,
Like the rolling king of honor, going to the wars of Troy.
Bould Sarsfield was not braver when Erin he did guard,
And when the war is over, his king will him reward;
He's crossing the main ocean for honor and for fame.”
“No, no, fair maid, his ship was wrecked going by the coast of Spain.”

When she heard that dreadful news she fell into despair,
A wringing of her hands, and a tearing of her hair;
“Since Johnny he is drowned, no man alive I'll take,
Through woods and lonesome valleys I'll wander for his sake.”
So when he saw her loyalty, he could no longer stand.
He flew unto her arms, saying, “Bessy, I'm the man;
Bessy, I'm the young man – the cause of all your pain,
And since we met on Clody's banks, we'll never part again.”
[The Universal Irish Song Book, 1898, p.70]

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 04 Feb 11 - 05:30 AM

"we need to remember that a regular spelling of place names was unusual in the first half of the 19th Century (actually, when copied from spoken English, this was true even in the last half ... My grandfather ws entered in the 1881 census as being born in Arcon [Harston] in Cambridgeshire and his sister in Strittone [Streatham], Isle of Ely)."===

Belatedly [by nearly 8 years, but I have only just come across above from IanC] ~~ the Isle of Ely village of Stretham is not, NB, spelt identically, as rendered above, to the S London suburb, but has no central 'a'.

It is two villages & 4 miles down the road from where I sit now in Haddenham, Cambs, & I drive thru it whenever I go to Ely or Cambridge.

So I know.

And it was not for nothing that a poster on another forum wrote "MtheGM, your pedantry is legendary" ~~ she meant a putdown, I suspect, but I felt much complimented.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: pavane
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:57 AM

Further to previous information, there are actually 16 copies of Claudy banks in the Bodleian collection, with various spellings (Claudey, Claudy, Cludy).

An unrelated song, Rover from Claudey, is certainly set in Ireland.

I am particularly interested in the Combe Martin reference, because my wife's ancestors (surname Creek) came from there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Barry Finn
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 08:41 PM

Here's another "Claudy Banks" which I kindly got from Jeff Warner & was collected by Jeff Davis from Fred Redden of Middle
Musquodoboit, Nova Scotia, ca 1990.

No idea where this Claudy is either but it's a great song. Lisa Null does a great rendition of a similar Claudy Banks that I believe she has from the singing of Almedia Riddle.

Barry

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,Hugh Caldwell
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:22 PM

While there is a Claudy in Scotland, it is not particularly close to the Clyde (of which Claudy could possibly be a corruption). The song does not seem very Scottish in style though. After much searching through gazetteers, the likeliest I could come up with was the river Cleddau (Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire) in "the little England on the further side of Wales, which does at least have a signifcant seafaring tradition.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 07 Jul 08 - 10:51 AM

Ah!! - hello Malcolm, though that might wake somebody up. Same place as we were talking about before for the Three Butchers text re "taking ship and crossing the ocean": North Devon Scenery Book, Rev. G. Tugwell, 1836. My memory tells me there is also a Sharp version collected in Somerset - but I think not published.
Tom Brown

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 09:31 PM

Interesting. Where is that from?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,doc.tom
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 08:07 PM

Here's a description of the song sung in The Pack O' Cards public house in Combe Martin, North Devon, U.K. approx 1836:

"Then there was another narrative of a young person who was greatly troubled

        "Concerning of her own true love that ploughed the raging main"

She sets out upon her travels and is of course utterly unsuccessful

        "In searching of a young man Which Johnny is his name"

At length, having returned home, she is one evening accosted by a stranger who is not as civil to her as he ought to be; she indignantly replies

        "If Johnny was here this night he'd keep me from all harm
         But he's on the field of battle all in his uniform"

The stranger promptly answers in a barbarous and unfeeling manner that he was personally acquainted with the aforesaid Johnny whom he left in a moribund condition a short while ago in foreign parts:

        "And when she heard him say so, she fell in deep despair
         In wringing of her tender hands and tearing of her hair"

Of course the story ends happily by the stranger throwing off his disguise; and then he takes the distressed maiden in his arms and

        "Says he, I am that young man which you thought was slain
         But here we meet in Combmartin all free from grief and pain"

Many other performances of a like nature ensued and were all vigorously applauded."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 06 Jul 08 - 04:11 PM

Presumably the tune to which Loreena Mckennit sings "Banks of Claudy" is the "Irish tune from Donegal - quite different from the English one " referred to by Marje in the post above ?

I have to say I much prefer the rumbustiousness of the Copper Family singing "Claudy Banks"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Jim Lad
Date: 04 Jan 07 - 03:38 AM

Looks like I was way off the mark then. I thought the song was in reference to The Banks of Bunclody. (Wexford) http://www.bunclody.net/

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 08:25 AM

The reasons I give for suggesting Caldy are as follows.

This song almost certainly originated in England as a broadside in the first half of the 19th Century. "Broken Token"/"Lost and Found Sailor" songs were developed from the "Hynde Horn" template during this period and are, as far as I am aware, almost all the work of the broadsheet writers. Versions collected from the oral tradition seem to have survived mainly in Southern England (Sussex, Somerset, Hampshire).

The song is about a soldier come back from fighting. During this period, Merseyside was one of a number of major areas from which troop ships sailed, along with (mainly) London and the South Coast of England. The "field of battle" may have been Spain during the Napoleonic wars ("The Coast of Spain" is usually mentioned ).

Given that the song almost certainly started life as a product of the broadside writers, it is worth doing some brief analysis of broadside versions.

The 12 different versions (there are over 20 copies in all) in the Bodleian seem to be a good sample. They were published in a variety of places (London, Manchester, Liverpool, Preston, Glasgow, New York and Dublin) and date from a Terminus Ante Quem of 1824 (none earlier than 1796) to about 1880. Here they are in order of the earliest date they could have been published.

Swindells (Manchester) Date: between 1796 and 1853
Catnach, J. (London); Marshall, W. (Bristol) Date: between 1813 and 1838
Pitts, J. (London) Date: between 1819 and 1844 (Cludy)
Armstrong, W. (Liverpool) Date: between 1820 and 1824 (Claudey)
Carse, W. (Glasgow) Date: c.1825
Harkness, J. (Preston) Date: between 1840 and 1866
McIntosh, R. (Glasgow) Date: between 1849 and 1889
Pratt, W. (Birmingham) Date: c.1850
Fortey, W.S. (London) Date: between 1858 and 1885
De Marsan, H. (New York, N.Y.) Date: c.1860
Disley, H. (London) Date: between 1860 and 1883
Such, H. (London) Date: between 1863 and 1885
Birmingham, W. (Dublin) Date: c.1867

Not only are there a larger than usual proportion of publishers around the Merseyside area, if we choose only those versions which could have been published by 1840 (a convenient date as it approximately separates out the pre-Victorian versions, and also splits them into roughly two halves) we find that, of five copies, two are from London and three are from the area around Merseyside (Manchester, Liverpool and Preston). Had we chosen 1850 as our date, they would also have included two others, one from Glasgow and one from Birmingham. Two of the versions show variant spellings; these are both from the earlier half (Pitts, London and Armstrong, Liverpool).

Most of the versions (including both the "early" ones from London and the one from Liverpool, have a verse where the word "faithless" is used which doesn't make any sense in relationship to the next verse (i.e. there is an inconsistency which suggests the version is not the original composition). This is not so in the Swindells copy, which has somewhat different verses. The Swindells copy is also in an earlier typeface (though this can only be an indication as old typefaces were used over and over again for broadsides). The Harkness (Preston) and Catnach (London) copies are in a regular typeface, however, which indicates a Victorian date for these.

I think there's a good chance that the song was originally written in the North West of England by a broadside publisher and found its way quite quickly to London, whence it mainly spread. The Swindells copy is, anyway, not a copy of any of the London versions. If this is so, Caldy may have been appropriate for some young maiden waiting for a troop ship to arrive. Alternatively, any fanciful name might well have served. If the name's a fanciful one, however, a search for the location becomes a waste of time anyway.

In contradiction to what I have said, the variant spellings are mainly in the title, so "Claudy" does seem to have been what the writer called the place. However, we need to remember that a regular spelling of place names was unusual in the first half of the 19th Century (actually, when copied from spoken English, this was true even in the last half ... My grandfather ws entered in the 1881 census as being born in Arcon [Harston] in Cambridgeshire and his sister in Strittone [Streatham], Isle of Ely).

Hope this provides some new light on an old song.

:-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 03:29 AM

from http://www.countyderry.com/derry_city.htm#Claudy


Claudy

The salmon filled River Faughan meanders past this little village in County Derry. Nearby Ness Wood Country park consists of 46 acres of woodland. This highlight is Ness the spectacular 30ft waterfall, streaming from the River Burntollet.

possibly either of these rivers could be the ones referred to in the song.

hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,Adolfo
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 03:12 AM

Soodlumn compilation of Irish ballads illustrates the song with a photograph of Claudy River. Below the photo it says "Claudy River in Co. Donegal."

Subject: DTAdd Version: Banks of claudy
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jun 03 - 01:49 AM

Here's a version from Sam Henry's Songs of the People. It's the only one I can find that mixes in the sally gardens. I like the "rolling prince of honour," too.
-Joe Offer-

---

BANKS OF CLAUDY

As I roved out one morning, being in the month of May,
Down by the sally gardens I carelessly did stray,
I overheard a young maid in sorrow to complain
All for her absent lover, and Johnny was his name.

I stepp-ed up to this young maid, I took her by surprise,
I'll own she did not know me, I being in disguise,
Said I, 'My pretty fair maid, my joy and heart's delight,
Tell me how far you've travelled this dark and dreary night.'

'Kind sir, the road to Claudy would you be pleased to show?
Take pity on a fair one who knows not where to go.
I'm in search of a faithless young man and Johnny is his name,
Sure, it's on the banks of Claudy I'm told he does remain.'

'This is the banks of Claudy, the groun' whereon you stand,
Do not depend on Johnnny, for he's a false young man,
Do not depend on Johnny, he will not meet you here,
But tarry with me in these green woods; no danger need you fear.'

'Oh, if my Johnny were here this night, he'd keep me safe from harm,
But he's in the field of battle all in his uniform,
He's in the field of battle and his foes he does defy
Like a rolling prince of honour near to the walls of Troy.'

'It's about six months or better since Johnny left the shore,
He's sailing on the ocean, where foaming billows roar,
He's sailing on the ocean for honour and bright fame,
As I'm told, the ship was lost going round the coasts of Spain.'

Oh, when she heard this dreadful news, she could no longer stand;
To the tearing of her golden hair and wringing of her hand,
'Then, since my Johnny's drownded, no other man I'll take,
Through lonesome dales and valleys I'll wander for his sake.'

Then when he saw her loyalty, he could no longer stand,
He took her in his arms, saying, 'Betty, I'm the man,
I'm your true and constant Johnny, the cause of all your pain,
And since we met at Claudy banks, we'll never part again.'

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: Marje
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:59 PM

The Copper family sing this one to a very English tune, and they pronounce it Cloddy. As far as I know, they think it refers to the Irish river Claudy. There's certainly an Irish tune too, from Donegal - quite different from the English one and also different from the Star-of-the-county-down melody that Eliza Carthy uses. They must surely have the Irish river in mind when they sing it there.

Which doesn't prove where it originated, only that it has English and Irish variants.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 12:06 PM

There is a Claudy in County Derry; on this map. It's shown southeast of Derry city (it's about 10 miles away), towards Dungiven (not on the Foyle). There is a River Claudy in Co. Derry. This is the first place I would think of when I hear the placename "Claudy", but is there more concrete evidence to connect the song with this place?

A "River Clady" is mentioned in versions of the Whistling Gypsy / Gypsy Rover. I heard it sung with a long A sound, unlike the pronunciation of the Donegal River Clady near Meenaclady (Mín a' Chladaigh), Gweedore (Gaoth Dobhair). Mention at this fishery site of a Claudy River in the same general area, perhaps refers to the same place? There is reference to the "Clady Banks" in the song "Green Fields of Gweedore", but also in this poem from the Finn Valley area further south in County Donegal. Clady, Co Tyrone is on the banks of the River Finn.
There's also a River Clady in Co. Meath.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 10:22 AM

why not Claudy at the end of Lough Foyle, south of Londonderry?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: IanC
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 09:02 AM

I did some research a year or two ago, and concluded that the "Claudy Banks" were, in fact the banks of Caldy, Merseyside (actually Cheshire).

The location fits the song well, as somewhere one might look for a sailor returning from sea ... on the river bank in the entrance to the estuary of the River Dee.

:-)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: nutty
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 08:23 AM

This site has an interview with Joe Heaney which mentions where Claudy might be .......

Joe Heaney

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks/Where are the Claudy Banks?
From: ooh-aah
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 04:31 AM

To be honest, I quite like not knowing where they are - to retain that feeling of 'somewhere distant and mysterious, overseas.

Subject: DTADD Version: Claudy Banks
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 03:58 AM

To keep the discussion together, I'm going to move the messages from today's thread into this one.
I've looked all over, and can't find definite information about the location of Claudy. The German version above refers to the Claudy Bucht (Bay). One very unreliable source said Claudy was a river in Donegal - but I couldn't find it on my Donegal map.

Here's a version that makes mention of Troy.

THE BANKS OF CLAUDY

As I walked out one evening
In the pleasant month of May,
Down by yon flowery [meadow]
So carelessly did stray,
I overheard a damsel
Most grievously complain,
Saying, 'On the banks of Claudy
My darling doth remain.'

I gently stepped up to her,
Which took her in surprise;
I own she did not know me,
Me being in disguise.
'How far do you mean to travel
This dark and dreary night?
.......................
.......................

'Kind sir, the way to Claudy
Will you me please to show?
Oh, pity a distressed girl,
For there's where I mean to go.
For I am in search of a young man,
And Johnny is his name.
I am told on the banks of Claudy
That he doth yet remain.'

'This is the banks of Claudy,
Fair maid, on which you stand.
And do not trust to Johnny,
For he is a false young man.
For Johnny doth deceive you
And doth not meet you here.
Tarry with me in these green woods;
No dangers need you fear.'

'If Johnny was here this night, sir,
He would keep me from all harm,
But he is in the field of battle
All in his uniform;
He is in the field of battle,
His foes he will destroy;
Like a ruling king of honor
He has fought in the wars of Troy.

'It's been six weeks or over
Since Johnny left the shore.
He is cruising the wide ocean
Where the thunder and cannons roar,
He is cruising the wide ocean
For honor and for fame.'
'The ship was wrecked, as I've been told,
Nigh on the coast of Spain.'

On hearing of this dreadful news
She fell into despair,
To wringing of her hands
And tearing of her hair:
'Since Johnny's gone and left me
No man on earth I'll take;
Through woods and lonesome valleys
I'll wander for his sake.'

On seeing of her royalty (sic)
He could no longer stand
But fell into her arms,
Saying, 'Betsy, I'm the man.
O Betsy, I am that young man
That's been the cause of all your pain;
Since we have met on the banks [of Claudy]
We ne'er shall part again.'

(FSM 152).
'The Banks of Claudy.' From the manuscript ballad-book of James Ashby of Holt County, secured by Miss Welty in 1906. Printed (with the misreading 'Clandy' for 'Claudy') in Archiv für das Studium der neueren Sprachen CXX
66-7. Ashby dated his entry 'January 30th 1874.' Belden supplied a few words where the MS was defective or illegible.

From Ballads and Songs Collected by the Missouri Folk-Lore Society (Belden)
(no tune)

Subject: RE: Folklore: Where are/were the Claudy Banks?
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 03:40 AM

I don't know where they are, but the Troy reference is just a classical allusion. If you look at Lyr Add:Claudy Banks and go to the 1st of the Bodleian links Malcolm provided, you'll see the verse:

Oh if my Johnny was but here he'd free me from my care,
But he is in the field of battle, dressed in his uniform,
He is in the field of battle, his foes he does defy,
Just like a prince of honour bright, who fought the wars of Troy.

with more or less the same in the other.

You'll also find other broadside references in The Folkinfo entry for Claudy Banks, but I haven't checked those to see how many include the Troy reference.

Mick

Subject: Lyr Add: DER BUCHT VON CLAUDY
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 03:23 AM

Hey, I found a German version here (click).
-Joe Offer-

Banks of Claudy

Als ich morgens spazierte,
einst im Monat Mai,
herein in einen Blumengarten,
hab ich mich verlaufen,
der Weg war mir einerlei.
Ich überhörte ´ne junge Maid,
die ihren Geliebten so vermißt,
sie beklagte all ihr Leid,
und daß sie ihn nicht vergißt.

Ganz plötzlich stand ich vor ihr da,
versetzt sie in Erschrecken,
ich für sie wohl ein Unbekannter war,
ich tat mich ja verstecken.

Ich sagte: "Mein charmantes Wesen,
meine Freude, mein Herz, es lacht,
wie weit mußt du denn heut noch reisen,
in dunkler, finstrer Nacht ?"

"Ich suche einen treulosen jungen Mann,
Johnny wird er genannt,
und bei der Bucht von Claudy,
sagt man, er sei an Land."

"Hier, das ist die Bucht von Claudy,
Mädchen, wo du grade bist,
doch trau nicht diesem Johnny,
weil er ein Lügner ist.

Verlaß dich nicht auf Johnny,
er trifft hier niemals ein,
komm lieber mit mir ins Gebüsch,
du brauchst nicht ängstlich zu sein.

Es sind sechs lange Wochen,
seit Johnny ging aufs Meer,
er durchsegelt jetzt die Wogen,
die Wellen wüten gar so sehr.

Er durchsegelt jetzt die Wogen,
für die Ehre dieser Welt,
Ich hab gehört, sein Schiff es sank,
an Spanien ist"s zerschellt.

Oh, als sie diese schlimme Nachricht hört,
ließ sie alle Hoffnung gehen,
fast raubte es ihr den Verstand,
was nützt ihr ganzes Flehen.

Sagt: "Wenn Johnny dort ertrunken ist,
kein andren Mann ich nehme,
statt dessen durch die Täler,
ich pilgere für die Seele."

Und als er ihre Liebe sah,
log er sie nicht länger an,
er flog in ihre Arme und rief:
"Betsy, ich bin der Mann".

Er rief: "Betsy ich bin der Mann,
der all dein Leid erschaffen,
aber seit wir uns am Claudy trafen,
woll´n wir uns nie verlassen."

Subject: Folklore: Where are/were the Claudy Banks?
From: ooh-aah
Date: 19 Jun 03 - 02:49 AM

Just curious to know! Also, does anyone know why one variant (done beautifully by Waterson/Carthy), involve the walls of Troy, of all places?

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I moved this message here from another thread on the same topic. this message and the ones below are from a new thread.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 16 Dec 00 - 08:50 AM

... and I've done a page for Shirley Collins and the Albion Country Band's No Roses as well ...

Garry

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: GeorgeH
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 09:02 AM

Recorded memorably by Shirley Collins with the first ever Albion Band . . (not a band as such, just a vast collection of musicians who appeared on various tracks).

G.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: Garry Gillard
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 08:35 AM

Almost every song in the Copper Family Songbook, including Claudy Banks of course, is linked from my official unofficial Copper family site at this URL.

Garry

Oh, and I've also transcribed all of Waterson/Carthy's songs at the site next door.

cheers

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 06:30 AM

The 1909 recording of Frederick White's set of Claudy Banks is included on  A Century of Song  (EFDSSCD02).  The documentation that originally accompanied the phonograph recording has been lost at some point, so it's not 100% certain that it is Mr. White singing; the recording was most likely made by J.F. Guyer and/or George Gardiner.  Notation of the song was published in the Journal of the Folk Song Society, vol.3, no.4, 1909.  Vaughan Williams got another version, Cloddy Banks, from Peter Verrall of Horsham, Sussex, in 1908.

The lyrics of Frederick White's version, as recorded by Waterson/Carthy, were posted here earlier in the year:  Banks of Claudy.

There is an entry at  The Traditional Ballad Index,  Banks of Claudy,  but as usual they have the "earliest date" wrong, and don't appear to have noticed that the song has been widely found in tradition in England.  The version recorded by The Young Tradition, which they learned from the Copper Family (who at the time were singing a shorter set than they do now), is in the DT, as mentioned above:  Claudy Banks.  A Century of Song also includes a recording from 1986 of the Coppers singing it.

Malcolm

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Here is the Traditional Ballad Index entry.
-Joe Offer-

Banks of Claudy, The [Laws N40]

DESCRIPTION: The singer meets a girl on the banks of Claudy. She is seeking her lover. He tells her Johnny is false, she rejects this. He tells her Johnny is shipwrecked; she is distressed. He tells her he is Johnny. She rejoices
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1906 (Belden)
KEYWORDS: separation reunion trick love
FOUND IN: US(Ap,MW,SE,So) Canada(Mar) Britain(Scotland) Australia Ireland
REFERENCES (11 citations):
Laws N40, "The Banks of Claudy"
Belden, pp. 154-155, "The Banks of Claudy" (1 text)
Randolph 47, "The Banks of Cloddy" (1 text plus 1 excerpt, 1 tune)
Hudson 38, p. 152, "The Banks of Claudie" (1 text)
Eddy 55, "The Banks of Claudie" (1 text, 1 tune)
Meredith/Anderson, pp. 166-167, "The Banks of Claudy" (1 text, 1 tune)
SHenry H5+H693, p. 313, "The Banks of Claudy" (1 text, 1 tune)
LPound-ABS, 30, pp., "The Lover's Return" (1 text)
JHCox 321, "The Banks of Claudie" (1 text plus mention of 1 more)
Ord, p. 130, "The Banks of Claudy" (1 text)
DT 465, BCLAUDIE CLAUDYBK
RECORDINGS:
Bob & Ron Copper, "Claudy Banks" (on LastDays)
George Maynard, "The Banks of Claudy" (on Maynard1)
CROSS-REFERENCES:
cf. "John (George) Riley (I)" [Laws N36] and references there
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Claudy Banks
File: LN40

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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 06:01 AM

The Eliza Carthy set is to a version of the Star of the County Down - and is my favourite of all .

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: Wolfgang
Date: 15 Dec 00 - 05:11 AM

Here are the notes from the 'Common Tongue' CD to the Claudy Banks sung by E. Carthy:

Claudy Banks is a small pearl. We have (probably) Vaughan Williams to thank for recording this on a cylinder around 1908-10 from a sweet Southampton singer called Frederick White, whose recording survives rather damaged but still to be relished. It's one of the so-called Broken Token songs—albeit one that has no broken token!

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 04:42 PM

does anyone know the origins of this song that is done by liza Carthy with the chorus about the walls of troy?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: Peg
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 12:58 PM

thanks Malcolm! This is a beautiful song and it is nice to get more information.

I have never known Loreena be be very specific with details on the traditional songs she adapts; at least, not in her liner notes...

peg

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Claudy Banks
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 14 Dec 00 - 11:00 AM

Does Loreena McKennitt name her source?  The references I've found to her recording say only "traditional, arranged and adapted by".  In fact, the text she uses is very close to early 19th century broadside versions, two of which may be seen at  Bodleian Library Broadside Ballads:

The banks of Claudey  Printer and date unknown.

The banks of Claudey  Printed between 1820 and 1824 for W. Armstrong, Banastre Street, Liverpool.

Malcolm

Subject: Lyr Add: CLAUDY BANKS (from Loreena McKennitt)
From: Peg
Date: 13 Dec 00 - 11:52 AM

This is very nice, thanks! I sing this sometimes and have only used Loreena McKennitt's version for lyrics...this is interesting, but I find it somewhat confusing when there is a reference to him being both a soldier AND a sailor...

for the record, since it sounds like Loreena's version is not the one in the DT:

As I walked out one morning all in the month of May.
Down by a flowery garden I carelessly did stray,
I overheard a young maid in sorrow did complain,
All for her absent lover who ploughed the raging maine.

I boldly stepped up to her and put her in surprise,
I know she did not know me, I being in disguise,
I said, "My charming creature, my joy, my heart's delight,
How far have you to travel this dark and dreary night."

"I'm searching for a young man, Johnnie is his name,
And along the banks of Claudy I'm told he does remain."
"These are the banks of Claudy, fair maid, Whereon you stand,
But don't depend on Johnnie for he's a false young man,
No, don't depend on Johnnie for he'll not meet you here,
But tarry with me in yon green wood no danger need you fear."

" 'Tis six long weeks or better since Johnnie left the shore,
He's crossing the wild ocean where the foam and the billows roar,
He's crossing the wild ocean for honour and for fame,
But this I've heard: the ship was wrecked along the coast of Spain."

"And it's when she heard this dreadful news she flew into despair,
By the wringing of her milk-white hands, the tearing of her hair.
"If Johnnie he be drownd-ed, no nor love I'll take,
But through lonesome groves and valleys I'll wander for his sake."

And it's when he saw her loyalty, no longer could he stand,
He flew into her arms saying, "Betsy, I'm the man,"
Saying "Betsy, I'm that young man, the cause of all your pain,
But since we've met on the Claudy banks we'll never part again.

Subject: Lyr Add: CLAUDY BANKS (from Fred Jordan)^^
From: NSC
Date: 12 Dec 00 - 06:03 PM

i got this version of Claudy Banks from the great Fred Jordan. The Coppers also sang a similar verion. The Young Tradition were porbably restricted by time and space when they recorded the shortened version, which is in the DT.

Twas on one summers evening all in the month of May.
Down by a flowery garden I pensively did stray,
I overheard a fair maid in sorrow to complain,
All for her absent lover who ploughed the raging maine.

I stepped up to this fair maid, I took her by surprise,
I own she did not know me I being all in disguise,
I said, "My charming creature, my joy and my delight,
How far have you to travel this dark and rainy night."

"It's to the banks of Claudy, kind sir, I'd have you show,
Take pity on a poor maid who knows not where to go,
I'm looking for a young man, Johnnie is his name,
And it's on the banks of Claudy I'm told he does remain."

"These are the banks of Claudy," I said, "Whereon you stand,
But do not trust your Johnnie for he's a false young man,
Oh do not trust your Johnnie for you'll not find him here,
But tarry with me in yon green wood no danger need you fear."

"If my Johnnie he was here this night he'd keep me from all harm,
But he's in the field of battle and he wears a uniform.
He's in the field of battle and his foes he will destroy,
Just like the king of honour all on the walls of Troy."

" 'Tis six long months or better since Johnnie left this shore,
A-cruising the wild ocean where the foaming billows roar,
A-cruising the wild ocean for honour and for gain,
But I'm told his ship was wrecked nigh to the coast of Spain."

Well when she heard this dreadful news she fell in deep despair,
a-wringing of her hands and a-tearing of her hair.
"If my Johnnie he is drownd-ed no man on earth I'll take,
But I'll wander through some valley so lonesome for his sake."

Well when Johnnie he heard her say so he could no longer stand,
He fell into her arms crying, "Betsy I'm that man,
I am that faithful young man and whom you thought was slain,
And since we've met on the Claudy's banks we'll never part again.
^^